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2014-05-07, 05:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-05-07, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
I'm with you on the original duals and any fetchland that fetches Islands. Stupid Scalding Tarns and Misty Rainforests skyrocketing just as I finally start making my first forays into Blue...
Of course, on the flipside, a couple years back I bought four Marsh Flats, four Verdant Catacombs, and three Tombs of Yawgmoth for a monocolor deck just to make the most of Bloodghast. It's been totally worth it though, the deck in question runs a lot of sac effects.
*checks TCGPlayer out of sudden curiosity*
...And Flats and Catacombs are also up ~100% since then. I guess I do dodge price-spike bullets sometimes after all.
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How useful or viable is burn in EDH, both flat and X-cost? I'm building Melek, so that obviously changes the equation at least somewhat.
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2014-05-07, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
You have 40 life at least. So you have to deal an extra 20 points of damage. That makes Burn as your main tool is not good. Burn as a tool in your toolbox is perfectly fine. Sometimes you just need a Lava Axe to the face. But if your deck is full of Lava Axes you're going to lose more than you win.
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2014-05-07, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
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2014-05-08, 12:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
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2014-05-08, 12:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
Maybe "slowly" and "periodically" weren't the right words, ideally it'd be more like ramping a bunch of mana, drawing ALL the cards, and blasting someone in the face at least twice per turn. With a healthy side of bounce and "damage each creature" to keep creatures off my back. And plenty of cantrips to spam if I get Guttersnipe, Taldrand, and/or Young Pyromancer out. And a couple good storm cards wouldn't hurt either.
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2014-05-08, 05:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Myr just seem more fun, although it does mean I don't get to use many cards with the pretty pre-Modern frame. Oh well.
I've put some ramblings about commanders into the spoiler below, I'd be quite grateful for thoughts. Myrs are gimmicky, of course, but I do want the deck to stand at least something of a chance.
Spoiler: robot armyScars of Mirrodin seems to have rotated out of Standard (don't laugh, I have no idea anymore how Standard works) so I'll hopefully be able to pick cards up cheaply. A pure Myr deck would be ideal, but in the interests of making it actually playable, I'm allowing myself a small amount of non-Myr creatures.
Biggest question is obviously the commander. It would be nice if it included White, because there are four cards with that specific colour identity that make Myrs. Green isn't a priority, as Myrs ship with mana acceleration built in, and White already takes care of removal - and it's arguably better at that than Black - so I don't need Black all that urgently. That's convenient, as Red and Blue have many fun things to do with artifacts. I'd therefore opt for either a 'true' White/Blue/Red deck, or one with a five-colour Commander that just doesn't happen to play (m)any Black and Green things. In the five-colour case, Karona would probably the Commander, which has applications in the "swing for game" department. Sliver Overlord would would work with Conspiracy, but eh. The other WUBRG legends aren't so great. WUR itself has three choices for a commander, and I'd opt for Numot, the Devastator purely because he's not from an officially Commander-focussed set.
There are some other commanders I've looked at. I really like Intet, the Dreamer - but playing him would mean no Master's Call, Myrsmith or Origin Spellbomb, and a less effective Shrine of Loyal Legions. Chromium has both white and blue and fits aesthetics-wise, but he's also terrible, terrible, terrible. Terrible.
Worth consideration in the two-colour section are Hanna, Ship's Navigator (WU, delicious artifact recurrence, old card frame) and Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer (WR, also sort of aggro-ish.) Worth consideration in the "I have this card already" section is... Oros, the Avenger, I guess. Very risky, doesn't have Blue, so that's probably a no. In the mono-colour section there's Bosh, Iron Golem. I do like the mental image of him flinging handfuls of Myr at a planeswalker, but - also no blue.
In the end, I'd probably go with Numot.
(And yes, Memnarch is probably the most fitting and powerful option. But I'm not playing a Memnarch deck.)Last edited by Khay; 2014-05-08 at 06:03 AM.
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2014-05-08, 01:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
Sliver Tribal is easy, but it is not just throw in all the good slivers. Add in the obvious cards, too, like Sliver Legion as your commander, Coat of Arms, Ancient Ziggurat, etc.
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2014-05-08, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-05-08, 05:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Who reads these anyway?
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2014-05-09, 02:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
Spoiler: lots of random talking about new deck ideaok, i kinda came up with a plan for a deck, it'd be for casual play, but it might work, maybe
the idea of the deck is kind of turbo fog, you want lots of cards in hand, and some grave recursion
it'd be a five colour deck, with mostly green cards and artifacts, no lands except for 4 reliquary towers, 4 cavern of souls (scarecrow), and 16 forests
it'll run a few mirror gallery's, and four reaper kings, all the other creatures will either be cheap scarecrows, or cheap manaramp, it'll also run some chromatic lanterns, channel the suns, infinite reflection, overwhelming stampede, obviously a few fog effects, and some draw effects, like font of mythos, rites of flourishing, and maybe howling mines
you keep staying alive until you can get mirror gallery on the field, then you wait until you draw infinite reflection, enchant your reaper king, now all your creatures are a copy of reaper king, every time a creature enters your battle field you destroy a permanent for each other creature you control
i can see it working in casual games, but i assume i couldn't really win many competetive games with it?
i'm going to try and play around with this idea until it can successfully place in the top 3 at FNM, at least once
also, a sort of related question, is reaper kings "reaping" ability optional? i'm talking about "Whenever another Scarecrow enters the battlefield under your control, destroy target permanent" it doesnt seem optional, but i thought i should ask
also, would infinite reflections + reaper king work the way i think it will?
Spoiler: mini-ramble about online decki designed a prototype deck online, and playtested it a few times, the deck seems to do nothing but stay alive for the first 5 or so turns, then slowly starts destroying permanents, then starts destroying stupid amounts of permanents, then swings for stupid amounts of damage
so far turn 15 seems to be the peak of it's damage, at 1840 damage, with every creature having trample
the only problem is that that was the turn that i drew my last card, so if they fog'd or something then i'd lose on my turn
Spoiler: rambling inside of ramblingfurther testing shows that the sweet spot is around turns 14 through 17
in my latest playtest i swung for a total 2968 on turn 16
before about turn 5 i can fog/equivalent whatever comes my way, turns 6 and later i can block most threats aimed at me, and after about turn 7 i start destroying 6 or more permanents each time i play any creature, even an elvish mystic, and the more creatures i summon the more i can destroy, then i attack, and because of leyline of anticipation non-lands have flash i can cast two copies of overwhelming stampede after my two copies of shared animosity have been activated, but before the damage step (i'm pretty sure i'm right that you can cast an instant around that time, i havent read the exact rules on that in a while) which effectively quadruples my swing, and gives them all trampleLast edited by Somensjev; 2014-05-09 at 03:19 AM.
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2014-05-09, 06:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
The ability isn't optional; there's no "you may" in there. If your opponents are out of permanents, you'll have to start targetting your own. Do note that you can target the same permanent several times, though, as the abilities are all put on the stack before any start resolving.
you keep staying alive until you can get mirror gallery on the field, then you wait until you draw infinite reflection, enchant your reaper king
I don't know how you play-tested it, of course, but it's important to play-test against several different types of opposing decks. Can the deck live through a hard rush? Can it deal with control? Can it win against combo decks? What if you don't draw your combo pieces, or what if your opponent sideboards in some artifact hate after the first match? And so on.
TL;DR: Winning overwhelmingly using a complex combo is great fun. But a deck that could 1840 damage on turn 15 will lose against a deck that does do 20 damage by turn 5.
... said the Myr tribal guy. I know, I know.Last edited by Khay; 2014-05-09 at 06:28 AM.
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2014-05-09, 06:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
Not overly competitive at all. Needing three cards is never competitive unless you have ways to get them all sooner. Waiting until you have mirror gallery and infinite reflection is no good. If you want to do that, you use Emrakul and that card that makes all spells colorless (Mycosynth Lattice). At least then you have a a whole bunch of Emrakuls.
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2014-05-09, 07:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
Yeah. It should be noted that you've not generated any value yet with those 3 cards, and there's little additional effect on the 4th card. It's only from card 5 onwards that you're really starting to grind out additional value (assuming cards 4+ are creatures). The combo does build a lot of momentum once you finally get it going, but it takes a lot of time and work to get there. So yeah, not competitive in itself.
You'll want a ton of tutoring, at the very least, but you also need defenses, mana acceleration, value creatures... I'm not saying it's impossible to make the deck work, but outside of casual, you'll face an uphill battle.
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2014-05-09, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
I responded to successive bans against my decks once by building UG tribal Fish. Not Merfolk, but actual fish. That was an... interesting deck. Shame it got banned.
I never really thought of Dandan as a star of any deck before, but it sure showed me.
Edit: Forays into Pauper thus far are... intriguing. I feel like I'm breaking an unspoken law by not playing Ulamog's Crusher Reanimator. I know I'm breaking half a dozen laws at the least by playing UR Scornful Egotist counterburn.Last edited by Cogwheel; 2014-05-09 at 10:26 AM.
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2014-05-09, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
a link to my admittedly poor deck
and it can win without the combo, i just like the combo
also, i seem to have made it slightly faster, at the expense of some damage, it can now pull of the combo somewhere around turn 12 (and i had a pretty bad first 4 turns)
i actually took out the fog/equivalent, the deck can at least survive until turn three, when you can get your first reaper king out (best case scenario, i'm pretty sure)
the fastest the combo seems to be able to be pulled off is around turn 9, however the deck can function without it, such as my doing this
Spoiler: deck stuff
turn 1: cavern of souls (elf), llanowar elves
turn 2: forest, chromatic lantern, elvish mystic
turn 3: reliquary tower, howling mine, font of mythos
turn 4: forest, elvish mystic, rites of flourishing, rites of flourishing
turn 5: land, coat of arms, shared animosity
turn 6: land, elvish mystic, coat of arms, shared animosity
turn 7: land, land, leyline of anticipation, attack with four 7/7 elves, they become 13/7 elves because of dual shared animosity, then use a single copy of overwhelming stampede to give them all +13/+13 and trample till end of turn, and do a total 104 damage
could probably get that earlier actually
Spoiler: do it faster
turn 1: leyline of anticipation, forest, elvish mystic
turn 2: forest, llanowar elves, llanowar elves
turn 3: reliquary tower, howling mine, howling mine
turn 4: cavern of souls (elf), coat of arms
turn 5: forest, elvish mystic, coat of arms, llanowar elf,
turn 6: cavern of souls (elf), cast overwhelming stampede and swing with five elves, each elf is an 18/18 trample, so that's 90 damage
i guess that qualifies as faster
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2014-05-09, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-05-09, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
My usual playgroup bans certain decks I play (all of them, eventually, once I either pull off some plays that someone or the other is displeased by, or get a few wins). Some cards have received the same treatment. As such, I'm constantly making new ones since I'm no longer allowed to play my old decks.
Edit: One of the more memorable dumb decks I resorted to in the hope of not offending anyway was RGU. Basically stall a while and prepare Doubling Season, Mirror Gallery and Warstorm Surge. Then, Stangg. The turn after, drop a kicked Rite of Replication on him.Last edited by Cogwheel; 2014-05-09 at 01:26 PM.
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2014-05-09, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-05-09, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
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2014-05-09, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
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2014-05-09, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
I offered, actually? Shot down. The idea being that if I helped make the deck and therefore know what's in it/how it works, I have an unfair advantage.
We play on Cockatrice, so in practice there are no limitations beyond what we agree on (I play with anything legacy allows, but tend to steer clear of serious power cards). They tend to run things like...
Well, for instance, imagine a clunky aggro/midrange black deck that happens to have a couple zombie/zombie synergy cards. It splashes a bit of white for Mother of Runes, and then randomly has two Demonic Tutors. That's one example that happened before.
Anyway! Can't be helped, just got to chase that deck that doesn't bother anyone. Didn't come here to complain about people, in any case.Last edited by Cogwheel; 2014-05-09 at 03:35 PM.
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2014-05-09, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
I've never played Pauper myself, but the way I see it whatever works, w-ALL HAIL THE GREAT EGOTIST.
*cough*
Anyways, belated thoughts on Cogwork Librarian since I randomly just looked at it again:
1. HOLY CRAP, I just noticed it's a common. Conspiracy drafts are going to be craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy.
2. I expect a sudden expansion to the comprehensive rulebook with the release of this set, since it currently contains nothing whatsoever pertaining to Limited.
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2014-05-09, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
Any obvious choices for which Journey to Nyx intro pack to buy? I don't mind about style, I like having a variety of deck types, so I'm mainly looking for power, specifically how well they perform with minimal replacements (as I have very few even half-decent cards in my backup), but also how fun they would be to play. I like Fates Foreseen, but I do already have a sort of RU scry/burn deck, I'm not convinced by Pantheon's Power or the Wild and the Deep, but Voracious Rage and Mortals of Myth seem like fun.
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2014-05-10, 05:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
It's a typical common counterburn shell, but runs the following to work with Egotist and some other stuff: Dispersal Shield, Erratic Explosion, Torrent of Fire, Riddle of Lightning, Rush of Knowledge... And just for bonus hilarity with that last one in particular, Sokenzan Spellblade. Some Brainstorm, Ponder etc. to manipulate topdecks for the above cards. Not the best deck? Glorious when it works, though.
Fun fact: Dispersal Shield running off Egotist in Pauper counters literally the entire format except Hand of Emrakul.
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2014-05-10, 06:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
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2014-05-10, 06:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2014-05-10, 06:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
It's the only common above 8 CMC, funnily enough.
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2014-05-10, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
Do you play EDH with more than one other person? If you do, that's forty life you need to get through for each of them. Burn very quickly becomes a nonviable strategy as the number of players increases unless you're generating infinite mana and using it to fuel Comet Storm or something (any "target player draws X cards" spell works too, although that isn't strictly burn). So your goal with Melek is to drag the game out by countering things and/or give yourself extra turns until you can do that. If that sounds fun to you and the people you play against, go for it. Personally, I built the deck and played it three times before realizing that no one in my meta was enjoying it, including myself. It's not even that it's competitive; there are plenty of stronger decks that I've played with and against without comment, but the fact that it pretty much requires you to stall the game out in order for it to function really hurts it.
Strangely enough, I've been considering Melek for a house variant in which players get to add another color to a general of their choice, as I think adding either black (for the ability to tutor up wincons) or green (mostly for ramp, although there are a few other green instants and sorceries that would be fun to double) would actually make the deck more fun by reducing the need for it to be so grindy. But outside of that, Melek mostly just offers you the exciting choice between being fairly ineffectual or being That Guy.
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2014-05-11, 07:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic the Gathering XIX: Heroic- Bump this thread.
Kind of funny someone randomly pulls this topic down from near the top of the page, I just got a list nearly put together and was coming on here to ask for a bit of help on it.
First off, I did end up going a different route after all; crunching the numbers based on an expectation of 3-4 person games it turned out I'd need from 7-10 burn spells to ensure a win without some truly insane mana generation, and that's assuming I cast them off the top at least two-thirds of the time. Possible with enough draw and library manipulation, but that takes mana too. Ugh. So rather than dealing with that I decided I'd rather focus on having Fun with Storm and Other Cast TriggersTM.
Which brings me to my current conundrum. Namely, having a list of 111 cards and not knowing which 12 to cut. Plus I'd like to fit some more disruption and draw in if possible, and maybe a few counterspells (even if only Hinder and Spell Crumple because I'm a mean person who has no qualms with tucking enemy commanders).
Spoiler: Melek, Izzet ParagonCreatures (8):
Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Goblin Electromancer
Guttersnipe
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Magus of the Future
Sakashima the Impostor
Talrand, Sky Summoner
Young Pyromancer
Instants (29):
Brainstorm
Cackling Counterpart
Chaos Warp
Comet Storm
Cyclonic Rift
Evacuation
Fact or Fiction
Fated Infatuation
Fire//Ice
Firemind's Insight
Flame Javelin
Fork
Hyrkyl's Recall
Increasing Vengeance
Lightning Bolt
Magma Jet
Mystical Tutor
Pongify
Prophetic Bolt
Rapid Hybridization
Reiterate
Reset
Reververate
Spin into Myth
Starstorm
Steam Augury
Turn//Burn
Turnabout
Twincast
Sorceries (22):
Aftershock
Anger of the Gods
Blasphemous Act
Chain Reaction
Epic Experiment
Fabricate
Flame Slash
Grapeshot
Ignite Memories
Mana Geyser
Merchant Scroll
Mind's Desire
Mizzium Mortars
Molten Psyche
Past in Flames
Personal Tutor
Ponder
Preordain
Rite of Replication
Serum Visions
Time Spiral
Wheel of Fortune
Lands (30):
10 Island
6 Mountain
Ancient Tomb
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Darksteel Citadel
Desolate Lighthouse
Great Furnace
Halimar Depths
Izzet Boilerworks
Reliquary Tower
Seat of the Synod
Steam Vents
Sulfur Falls
Temple of Epiphany
Thawing Glaciers
Tolaria West
Other Permanents (22):
Arcane Melee
Chromatic Lantern
Chrome Mox
Coldsteel Heart
Crystal Ball
Future Sight
Gilded Lotus
Isochron Scepter
Izzet Signet
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Keranos, God of Storms
Mana Flare
Mox Diamond
Ruby Medallion
Sapphire Medallion
Scroll Rack
Semblance Anvil
Sensei's Divining Top
Sol Ring
Sphinx-Bone Wand
Strionic Resonator
Tezzeret, the Seeker
This is my first Commander deck, so any advice on cutting this down and/or further modifying it is appreciated.