Protoss

[Inyssius Tor]

You probably all know it's been done before, but the link really needs to be pointed out. It may be over two years old, but it did hit eight pages...

EDIT: It's raining, so I have nothing to do; therefore, you get this link.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

actually that's about right only the BC could suvive a hit if the mana was at full... however i still see the BBE Wizard getting the feedback.

That's rather the point of Feedback. It's only use is against casters. Against a charging troll barbarian, it does absolutely nothing. So don't throw BBEG casters at it.

Or MC'ed... the units in SC never got a will save

Will save is added for purposes of Game Balance. Loosing one unit in Starcraft is not game-breaking, even loosing a drone/scv and making an entirely new tech tree isn't as game breaking as some of the things you can dominate. Also, Dominate Monster has a duration, it's not permanent. Again, game balance. Or you can just say that the duration of MC was longer than any given battle, but not necessarily infinite.[/quote]

[mikeejimbo]

This should obviously be taken with the Zerg and Terran threads for all its StarCraft-y goodness.

[Holocron Coder]

Changed the Dark Protoss favored class to Lurk, changed their movement to 30ft, and fixed the augmented movement racial ability of the High Protoss.

Still have no idea on level adjustments here :)

[Holocron Coder]

Edited to add fluff content and minor editing. Tell me what you guys think :) Please? This thread is just sticking to the races for the moment.

[mikeejimbo]

I don't know if this is exactly the place, but...

How would you do the Archons?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I say Protoss should have a penalty to Con. Physically, they aren't too hardy. In fact, they have the least hps around, they just have the extra shielding.
Most of the durability of the protoss units is the powered armor or whatever.

[Holocron Coder]

Hmmm.. my bet on the whole Archon thing would be along this line:

Character has to take full levels in a "High Templar" prestige class. Of course, this means both characters will have this. The merging essentially removes ALL spellcasting abilities, and perhaps uses some formula of powers lost to calculate the dmg of their psionic blast.

Basically, it shouldn't be doable by PCs. It's way too powerful.

[Holocron Coder]

I say Protoss should have a penalty to Con. Physically, they aren't too hardy. In fact, they have the least hps around, they just have the extra shielding.
Most of the durability of the protoss units is the powered armor or whatever.

Well, these two races are built to work in the DnD world, thus, no shields. So I took a bit of creative license to assume that a warrior race has decent health.

Additionally, I just looked it up. Zealots had 80 base health under their shields, while marines had a grand total of 40. Part of this is probably class levels, but I can't help that think a tall, warrior race would be healthier than your average human :P

[arnoldrew]

You should make the Psionic sword do 1d12 damge. First of all, it has an extended crit range AND multiplier, so losing .5 points of average damage isn't gonna hurt it so much. But mainly because I feel sorry for the poor little d12. That's why if I ever got to play D&D I would definitely play a Barbarian with a greataxe.

[Holocron Coder]

You should make the Psionic sword do 1d12 damge. First of all, it has an extended crit range AND multiplier, so losing .5 points of average damage isn't gonna hurt it so much. But mainly because I feel sorry for the poor little d12. That's why if I ever got to play D&D I would definitely play a Barbarian with a greataxe.

Yeah... the poor d12, picked on by all its friends. Ahem. Well, the Psionic Sword also can't be dual-wielded.. and generally the Psionic Blades WOULD be.

Thus, supposing all attacks hit and dual-wielding Psionic Blades...

2 attacks of 2d4+1 and 1 attack of 2d4 (assuming base stats of protoss)
= avg of 9.5 dmg * (1 + (.1 * 2)) for crit
= 11.4

As opposed to

2 attacks of 2d6+1
= avg of 8 dmg * (1 + (.15 * 3)) for crit
= 11.6

Almost even, it seems... And the Psionic Sword costs more than 2 Psionic Blades :)

Alternately, if it was a d12...

1 attack of 1d12+1
= avg of 7.5 dmg * (1 + (.15 * 3)) for crit
= 10.875

And even less if it was a lower crit chance or bonus. Sadly, 2d6 is better than a 1d12 :(

I believe I did my math right... >.< I can't think very well at the moment for some reason. Basically its avg_dmg * (1 + (crit_chance * crit_mod)) to calculate dmg.

[mikeejimbo]

I've got it! Just make it do 1d12 + 0.725 damage, then the averages should be even.

[Gralamin]

I say Protoss should have a penalty to Con. Physically, they aren't too hardy. In fact, they have the least hps around, they just have the extra shielding.
Most of the durability of the protoss units is the powered armor or whatever.

Zealot: 100 hp
Marine: 40 hp
Zergling: 35 hp

care to rethink that statement?

[Holocron Coder]

Zealot: 100 hp
Marine: 40 hp
Zergling: 35 hp

care to rethink that statement?

Yeah, I pointed that out up there, although I didn't look up the 'ling :)

So, does anyone else have any comments? is the LA alright?

[Eighth_Seraph]

Yeah, Zealots were right up there with Ultralisks when it came to hard-core melee goodness, and if you have a shield battery nearby they were still somewhat useful as meatshields even when the tech tree moved up a bit.

In any case, we need to start making classes for the races to take. Namely we need the Zealot, High Templar and Dark Templar (The latter two which should probably be renamed). Zealot can be based loosely on the Fighter or any other generic warrior class, and the Dark Templar would work well if based off a Ninja or Rogue, maybe even the Engetsu Shinobi, sans magic. The High Templar requires a bit more work, since it's abilities are powerful, but limited and quite specific in their use.

A good chunk of other units would better serve as vehicles to be piloted, with specific skills for each one. Anyone around here have enough experience in d20 future to do this, or get the momentum going?

[Holocron Coder]

As it stands, a Zealot would simply be a fighter with TWF focus.

High and Dark Templars are the ones that would need to be stat-ed up. According to the flavor, High Templars are simply warriors that reached veteran status and opted for a more psionic-bend to their fighting. This would suggest prestige class, either 5 or 10 levels. It would focus around the abilities of the High Templar in-game, such as Hallucination (Illusions without concentrations?) and Psionic Storm (some cross of a thunderstorm and psionics), with possibly Tassadar's Psi Blast ability (simple upgrading the psion spell of the name).

Dark Templar doesn't mention much in the way of flavor, so it could be either a base or prestige. I'd lean toward a prestige class, similar to High Templar. The "base" class of a standard Dark Protoss would be either Lurk, Rogue, or Fighter, I imagine (or Psion...). Dark Templar would give additional bonuses to the rogue-like abilities.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

As it stands, a Zealot would simply be a fighter with TWF focus.

High and Dark Templars are the ones that would need to be stat-ed up. According to the flavor, High Templars are simply warriors that reached veteran status and opted for a more psionic-bend to their fighting. This would suggest prestige class, either 5 or 10 levels. It would focus around the abilities of the High Templar in-game, such as Hallucination (Illusions without concentrations?) and Psionic Storm (some cross of a thunderstorm and psionics), with possibly Tassadar's Psi Blast ability (simple upgrading the psion spell of the name).

Agreed. Make it a 10 level PrC, with the capstone ability being Tassadar's Psi Blast (at will, without PP cost).

Dark Templar doesn't mention much in the way of flavor, so it could be either a base or prestige. I'd lean toward a prestige class, similar to High Templar. The "base" class of a standard Dark Protoss would be either Lurk, Rogue, or Fighter, I imagine (or Psion...). Dark Templar would give additional bonuses to the rogue-like abilities.

I'd say that Dark Templar is a completely different base class. They start out with innate invisibility, a psi-blade, and get more powerful as they progress. D6 hit die (since they're so crunchy), full BAB, and very ouchie weapon.

[Holocron Coder]

Sounds do-able. I'll try stat-ing that up once I get the time. Meaning tomorrow or this weekend.

[I_Got_This_Name]

I'd make Protoss be Large-sized, actually. Three meters is almost ten feet, and generally the cutoff for medium/large is 8 feet.

Also, all Protoss (Zealot, HT, DT; everything else is a robot, vehicle, or energy being) take two "slots" in a shuttle, the same as a Vulture does, and the Vulture has that big, heavy vehicle (possibly about horse-sized).

I think a High Templar prestige class should probably be a full manifester, as Psion, probably with the ability to trade previous levels for more manifesting; we can intregrate Hallucination and Psionic Storm as powers.

I don't think Archons should need to be made of 10th level Templar. I'd probably just give it as a class feature before then (possibly at 1st level; you can do the Archon Meld with two templar without any researches, but you need to research everything else). I'm not entirely sure whether it should be a template or a monster; I'd lean toward monster (Probably Elemental-type; since it's made of one thing; it's a "psi-elemental"), with more powerful templar possibly advancing its hit dice on creation.

Shields can be done as a second set of HP. I wouldn't handle them with AC, since that would mean that one good area attack (or Magic Missile) and the Archon is history (whereas in SC you just needed the shield-dropper tricks). Probably make it a protoss-only feat, or raise the LA, or give them RHD; regardless, these would just be HP that are lost before normal HP and that the Protoss has Fast Healing 1 for.

Also, for the Dark Archon, remember that Feedback dropped the target unit's energy to zero when used. I probably wouldn't make it so powerful in D&D (Mage, you lose all of your spell slots. Also, you die); perhaps make it burn a certain amount of PP, converting spell slots into PP equivalents (and taking from random levels as needed), with a save to reduce how much (either damage or both slots burned and damage).

[Holocron Coder]

Dang.. yeah, the 3 meters would make them "large" (tall) creatures... dang, I was hoping to avoid that.

O well, restating :)

[Karma Guard]

must...
Don't the Dark Templar cut the part of the brain that allows the Khala out of their brains?

Dark Templar cut off their hair to cut themselves off from the species-wide psychic communications-net...thingy. The hair isn't hair at all, but works like radio antenna; that's how they receive and send their telepathy.

The Khala's their philosophy and the mental connection that all not-Dark Templar Protoss share.

Crunchwise, the stat distribution's strange. Why do the High Protoss get smacked with a -4 Cha, while the Dark Protoss only get -2? The fact that both of them have +2 Str but the Dark Templar get +2 Dex and -2 Con while the High get only +2 Con is a little confusing too.

I'm not good at balancing races, though. :I

[Holocron Coder]

Basicall, the -4/-2 Cha difference is for flavor and balance. The high protoss are almost stupid in their "we're better" attitude overall, while the dark templar are simply secretive, but don't view themselves as "better", which has always been a -2 penalty.

The Con/Dex difference is similar. High protoss are more of a raging meatshield in battle, where the dark protoss lean towards stealth, accuracy, and grace.

The Int/Wis difference is basically High Protoss being very intelligent, whereas Dark Protoss are more worldly and less likely to rush into things.

The Dark Protoss get a -2 to Con to balance out that they only have a -4 to Cha, really

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I rather saw the Zealot's HP be mostly because of the powered armor, which is far sturdier than anything the Terrans can come up with. High Templars have crap hit points, after all. If anything, I'd remove the Protoss Con bonus.

[Solaris]

Yeah, Zealots were right up there with Ultralisks when it came to hard-core melee goodness, and if you have a shield battery nearby they were still somewhat useful as meatshields even when the tech tree moved up a bit.

In any case, we need to start making classes for the races to take. Namely we need the Zealot, High Templar and Dark Templar (The latter two which should probably be renamed). Zealot can be based loosely on the Fighter or any other generic warrior class, and the Dark Templar would work well if based off a Ninja or Rogue, maybe even the Engetsu Shinobi, sans magic. The High Templar requires a bit more work, since it's abilities are powerful, but limited and quite specific in their use.

A good chunk of other units would better serve as vehicles to be piloted, with specific skills for each one. Anyone around here have enough experience in d20 future to do this, or get the momentum going?

You're lookin' at a quadrupedal Huge or Gargantuan mecha with a Crackerjack neural link and some kinda plasma cannon for a Dragoon. Write up rules for the shields (hint: Star Wars) and slap that bad boy on the 'Goon. If you're wanting to stick with the 'Goon being a cyborg, check out this:

Cyborg Hybrid
The recipient’s meat body is replaced with a robotic body made of metal.
Benefit: Strength and Dexterity scores are based off of the body (baselines of 12 and 10 for a Medium cyborg hybrid, respectively), and those can be upgraded like robot stats. Constitution goes down by four points, but vitality points are now drawn from Charisma. Fortitude saves, Concentration checks, and other things drawn from Constitution are unchanged. The recipient now has hit points like a robot instead of wound points like a human and has the hardness of its metal structure. Speed is determined through use of a robotic locomotion system. All of these stats can be upgraded - even the manipulators can get weapon gadgets and the body can get higher hardness or more hit points as detailed below. It uses robotic sensors (it has to - the sensory organs are gone), get integrated robotic armor, use most robotic accessories - basically, the recipient gives up most of his squishiness to use robot stuff and still use cybernetics. The only robotic equipment the recipient can't use are skill and feat software. The cyborg hybrid comes with a Vegan 5 Minireactor to handle those pesky food requirements. The recipient now requires repair, much like a construct, to recover its hit points - an hour's worth of work and a DC 20 Repair check restores 1d10 hit points.
Think Cyborg Hybrid, like General Grievous. There's no reason it should suck like the total body cyborg does in d20 Cyberscape. The only meat left is the recipient’s brain and spinal cord, locked inside a sealed storage compartment with a fairly reliable life-support system. The central nervous system is kept alive by means of an artificial circulatory system that uses a small pump to cycle a solution of salt water and hemoglobin around the brain and spinal column, to any attached wetware, and through a gas-exchange system. The recipient is immune to all poisons save inhaled poisons, and the life-support system keeps his brain and spine alive for eight hours after his cybernetic body's destruction. He cannot eat, but he does require a liter of water a week to satisfy his brain's requirements. Additionally, the cyborg hybrid recipient needs eight hours of rest in a twenty-four hour period. Every twenty-four hours he does not rest and recharge his batteries applies a -1 penalty to attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks until he rests for eight hours. This rest need not be continuous to recharge the body adequately, but recovering vitality points requires the same rest as a meat recipient does.
Increasing the size from Medium increases the purchase DC by +8 for each size increase. See the table about increasing sizes in the MSRD Creature Overview document for the modifiers from this. The Constitution score does not increase, however. Only the metal parts are scaled up; the meat remains the same size. A Medium cyborg hybrid has the 10 hit points listed below and two slam attacks that deal 1d6 bludgeoning damage, while a Large cyborg hybrid has 20 hit points and two slam attacks that deal 1d8 bludgeoning damage, a Huge cyborg hybrid has 40 hit points and two slam attacks that deal 2d6 bludgeoning damage, a Gargantuan cyborg hybrid has 80 hit points and two slam attacks that deal 2d8 bludgeoning damage, and a Colossal cyborg hybrid has 120 hit points and two slam attacks that deal 4d6 bludgeoning damage.
Some may wish to go the opposite route and decrease their size with the cyborg hybrid. A Small cyborg hybrid increases the base purchase DC by +4. It has 5 hit points, and its Strength score decreases by 2 points while its Dexterity score increases by 4 points. The Small cyborg hybrid has two slam attacks that deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage.
A cyborg hybrid can also increase its hit points by including more redundancy and durability in its frame. Each increase of the cyborg hybrid's hit points by +10 increases its purchase DC by +1. The cyborg hybrid can also gain the Sturdy gadget; most cyborg hybrids of Large or larger size take that instead.
Small and Medium cyborg hybrids can have only two arms. Large cyborg hybrids can have up to four arms, and Huge and larger cyborg hybrids can have up to eight. Each arm must be equipped with a manipulator, and every pair of arms after the first increases the purchase DC by +2 in addition to the price of the manipulators. The recipient has only one primary hand, and the rest are off-hands. If the recipient uses the manipulators as natural weapons or has weapons integrated into the arms, one is treated as a primary weapon while all of the others are treated as secondary weapons. Having multiple arms allows the recipient to gain the Multiattack and Multiweapon Fighting feats. Additionally, having more than two arms grants a +4 bonus on Climb and grapple checks. The manipulators can receive weapon gadgets as appropriate, such as the stun or concussive weapon gadgets for a hand or a high frequency gadget for a claw. The electrified gadget is a particular favorite.
The cyborg hybrid normally comes with a duralloy structure. This grants it a hardness of 15. By increasing the base purchase DC by +4, the cyborg hybrid can get a neovulcanium structure with a hardness of 20. If it increases the base purchase DC by +6, the cyborg hybrid can get a neutronite structure with a hardness of 25. A cyborg hybrid with a neutronite structure is also much denser and gains a +4 bonus to checks related to stability. The toughest structure available, cerametal, requires increasing the base purchase DC by +8 to get a hardness of 30.
The cyborg hybrid's speed is determined through the use of a robot locomotion system. This is done after its size and structure are determined, as those are the only two things which affect the base purchase DC. It can mount multiple locomotion systems provided they are compatible - such as having a pair of legs and a thruster. Generally speaking, a cyborg hybrid can have only one system for moving on the ground, one for moving through the air, and one for moving in the water - but most only have just the one system for moving on the ground.
Type: External.
Hardness/Hit Points: 15/10.
Base Purchase DC: 32.
Restriction: Res (+2).

I put it together for my d20 system game. You could either make the 'Goon itself the cyborg body or you could make the cyborg body a plug-in gadgetthingie that hooks up to the Dragoon.
As for the technological aspects? Simply replace 'technology' with 'psionic item' and you're good.

[GammaPaladin]

I'm sorry, but I have to say... If I were DMing and a player came to me with these races, I'd be telling him to try LA+3 or so. They're just too strong to be +1.

Also, I'd say Zealots are Soulknives, not PsyWars ;)

[HarmlessPenguin]

I rather saw the Zealot's HP be mostly because of the powered armor, which is far sturdier than anything the Terrans can come up with. High Templars have crap hit points, after all. If anything, I'd remove the Protoss Con bonus.

The High Templar are indeed in robes, but they still have 40/40 of shields/health compared to a Marine who is in powered armor who only has 40 health, Protoss are sturdier.

Also, I just want to point out that you gave High Templar Psy Warrior as their favored class, but they have a bonus to Int rather than Wis, perhaps it should be Psion?

Also, have you considered the Psychic Rogue instead of the Lurk as the Dark Templar favored class? Then again, that class is based off Int instead of Wis, to which they get a bonus...problematic =P.

[Khanderas]

Feedback would be Too deadly... Mages get 1d4 HD per level but gain more than that spell levels (well after level 4) maybe half it...

again mind control would be TOO powerful.

BBEG: i will destroy the world
DA: *Mind control*
BBEG i will be good forever.

see.

also, does Wis or Int help Psionics? both dark and high protoss should get the bonus which helps...

not good with psi...

soal bow (i think) for the dragoon?

A dark archon is created from the SACRIFICE of two psionic beings with a lifespan rivaling elves. Any templar have also considerably training with psionic power (infact it is a core part of any Protoss very being).
How long does an archon (light or dark) live ? I read somewhere that they dont last long (a few months) making the sacrifice something only done in dire situations. So a Huge ball of red (or blue) psionic energy should be immensly powerful, burning the lifeforce of two protoss souls that could otherwise live a millenia more.

Feedback: Active buffs are dispelled, does 1d4 backlash damage per spell level (haste, being a 3rd level spell therefore does 3d4 damage). Multiple buffs stack for this. Possible a will for half. The target gets stunned for one round from the pain and disorientation. (Normal dispels just ends the duration, allowing spells to end "normally". Feedback takes the energy and overloads it, very different.)


Very powerful yes, but a PC going for a Archon, have to face he will die in a month or two no matter what and he needs one more will.

[Mal666]

i think shields should bedoable actually...

you've already given them a PSI pool and the augment move function, why not add

"as a swift action: At a cost of two power points the <insert protoss here> may errect a forcefield as the spell False Life. His caster level for this power is equal to his class levels +5"

means the 'toss can effectively regen their shields by spending vast ammounts of power, and they last a while, so can be brought up as soon as the protoss awakens for the day...

yey/nay? (somone reword it so its in vague english please... i'm tired.)

[DrizztFan24]

I would suggest that the Dragoon be a 10 level PrC with an entry requirement similar to those of the Blood Magus (comp. arcane). The nearly destroyed protoss was transferred to a metallic shell to still cary out their duty.

[Zakama]

*psst*

Protoss feed on sunlight, or moonlight in a pinch, as it's really just sunlight.