League of Legends LIX: Ice Cream, Stamps, and Lorn

[Antonok]

I've been testing the Nidalee changes on the PBE lately. Gotta say I'm very pleased with what they're doing to her. They turned her into an AP bruiser and a decently viable jungle (what I've wished for since I first played her). Bit hard to get her Hunted passive off with traps but eh. I just pray to Draven that they keep pounce leaping towards the cursor and R at lvl 1 even if the rest of the changes don't make it thru.

Now if they'd only change her to straight AD/AP I'd be on top of Runeterra.

[McDouggal]

I've played three more ranked games, and FINALLY got my first win.

http://imgur.com/a/rNjUN

[ex cathedra]

I've been testing the Nidalee changes on the PBE lately. Gotta say I'm very pleased with what they're doing to her. They turned her into an AP bruiser and a decently viable jungle (what I've wished for since I first played her). Bit hard to get her Hunted passive off with traps but eh. I just pray to Draven that they keep pounce leaping towards the cursor and R at lvl 1 even if the rest of the changes don't make it thru.

Now if they'd only change her to straight AD/AP I'd be on top of Runeterra.

why does she need to be straight ad or ap?

[Antonok]

why does she need to be straight ad or ap?

She doesn't, it'd just be nice (bit ocd on champs with mixed scaling). Though they added AP scaling on her takedown so its not near as big of a peeve as it was.

[Ashen Lilies]

Never play Kayle. Or Evelynn. Or Malphite. Or Tristana. Or Kog'Maw. Or Ezreal. Or Jax. Or Akali. Or... i'm stopping here actually.

[Siosilvar]

For what it's worth, the wiki does say that the bork passive is counted like wit's end and similar on-hit effects and cannot crit, which supports it not being able to lifesteal.

You can lifesteal off of Sheen proc and Hydra AoE but not crit with them.

i played a game of top nidalee yesterday with botrk and my lifesteal against the wight camp stayed relatively constant despite my first attack having >100 bonus damage from botrk and my last hit having virtually zero.

That's because the proc damage is capped at 60 against monsters and minions and 15% of 60 is 9.

However, I tested it with 65% lifesteal and it appears that you're correct and the passive does *not* benefit from lifesteal. That clears up a lot of my worries about new BoRK, actually, though it brings up the question of why a physical damage passive on an item with lifesteal does not benefit from lifesteal.

I also noticed a bug where taking Dragon's DoT and lifestealing in the same frame reduces the displayed lifesteal number by however much the DoT was (lifestealing for 58 a hit, some frames would be only 43). I can guarantee that this wasn't because I was hitting maximum health, since I made sure I was below half the whole time.

[Antonok]

Never play Kayle. Or Evelynn. Or Malphite. Or Tristana. Or Kog'Maw. Or Ezreal. Or Jax. Or Akali. Or... i'm stopping here actually.

Don't remind me....

[NineThePuma]

To be fair, the only one of those that doesn't have the capacity to go both ways reasonably is akali. Every other one is valid in some circumstance as their 'off' build.

[Eldariel]

May I recruit a couple of you guys here to try something a little strange:

5 man team game, finish Beginner bots ASAP.
e.g.
All take long sword, aspd runes, heal, barrier, and teleport (on a select couple).
Warwick, Sona, Jarvan, and high attack damage output champions.

And just push.

I just need a magnitude of "Fast game end" time for this mode.

We did this:

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Practically speaking that's 4:45 or so, but the game seems to count the time after the nexus explosion before the Win Screen to game length. I think it's still possible to do about 30 secs - 1 minute better; when the bots came to defend at Nexus, we weren't able to kill them efficiently and so we lost some extra time. Oh, and at the start of the game before minion spawn we suicided to the first mid tower for about 1000 damage, just as a tip to any prospective speedrunners. The first tower is pretty tough due to the champion damage reduction.

Jarvan didn't feel optimal due to his low personal contribution; we instead opted for Elise to juggle tower aggro and for the spiderlings + W to wreck towers fast. Yi plus ASpd is nice and Jinx felt obvious with minigun plus missiles for waveclear. We tried Heimer too but his turret cooldown is too long on low levels. Elise spiderlings are nice tho. Yi's waveclear is also something worth noting. Aatrox is another champ that's worth considering, again to juggle tower aggro and such. Like I said, with optimal mechanical play, optimized runepages and masteries & picks you could probably cut another minute. We only got to try two comps and we didn't go very in-depth with optimizing the pages since most of the group lacked access to all runes and we were pressed for time. But there you go, under 5 mins is definitely and quite easily doable, even with huge mechanical mistakes.


EDIT: Oh, and in addition to getting everyone back fast, TP-tanking minions feels really useful so I definitely prefer TP over Barrier.

[ex cathedra]

You can lifesteal off of Sheen proc and Hydra AoE but not crit with them.

don't cite hydra proc when it explicitly states that it benefits from lifesteal to differentiate itself from another physical damage on-hit proc that doesn't benefit from lifesteal (tiamat's). the fact that you can lifesteal off of hydra is clearly both a feature and an exception. you don't lifesteal from muramana, either.

That's because the proc damage is capped at 60 against monsters and minions and 15% of 60 is 9.

Yeah, which means that you deal max damage from 1200 HP and up against monsters, but it doesn't explain the consistent amount of lifesteal between the HP values of 1200 and 0.

However, I tested it with 65% lifesteal and it appears that you're correct and the passive does *not* benefit from lifesteal. That clears up a lot of my worries about new BoRK, actually, though it brings up the question of why a physical damage passive on an item with lifesteal does not benefit from lifesteal.

because on-hits don't benefit from lifesteal or spellvamp, and while effects that modify your next attack do. the in-game terminology is inconsistent (abilities that apply on-hits also generally apply attack modifiers despite not all attack modifiers sharing the same attributes as actual on-hits) but the mechanics aren't.

[Grytorm]

I just played a game as Poppy which was fairly fun even if we didn't win and I could have done better. I rushed Trinity into tank items. By the end I had Frozen Heart, Hexdrinker, and Spirit Visage. I did okay and one point I got two enemies away from the teamfight and killed them both after they wasted ulties on me.

[NineThePuma]

personally, I woulda gone for randuins over hexdrinker; even just a Giant's Belt would have drastically upped your toughness.

[Grytorm]

Perhaps. That does make sense. Although tankyness wasn't my main problem it was decision making I would guess. I was often killing their squishies on the back line and I would turn around and see my team dead. I definitely could have played better. I picked up Hexdrinker in the middle of getting the Frozen Heart, I had the Glacial Shroud and I wanted some MR to protect myself from their top Amumu and mid Viktor. But I do see that picking up something else would probably be better.

[Siosilvar]

-snip-

Don't patronize me.

That's all I have to say.

[McDouggal]

CLG vs. Dignitas

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That looked like Dig didn't know how to deal with CLG's rotations. Just. WOW.

Also, that postgame interview. LOL.

[Olinser]

CLG vs. Dignitas

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That looked like Dig didn't know how to deal with CLG's rotations. Just. WOW.

Also, that postgame interview. LOL.

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Dig has been getting by on individual talent, their teamwork is most definitely lacking.

CLG had them completely outrotated, but Dig's superior comp eventually won through.

Also, Seraph was completely and totally ineffective the entire game. #FREENIEN

[Math_Mage]

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Dig has been getting by on individual talent, their teamwork is most definitely lacking.

CLG had them completely outrotated, but Dig's superior comp eventually won through.

Also, Seraph was completely and totally ineffective the entire game. #FREENIEN

Spoiler: LCS

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You mean their superior comp eventually didn't prevent them from losing out?

Anyway, that game wasn't nearly so surprising as EG beating C9.

[PersonMan]

Regarding BotRK on-hit healing: Seeing as it used to have "and heal you for an equal amount" on the %HP damage, and that got removed, wouldn't the logical thing to think be that it doesn't, seeing as Riot explicitly removed it?

It used to be on-hit magic damage with equal heal, now it's just on-hit physical damage 'cause nerfs.

[Eldariel]

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Dig has been getting by on individual talent, their teamwork is most definitely lacking.

CLG had them completely outrotated, but Dig's superior comp eventually won through.

Also, Seraph was completely and totally ineffective the entire game. #FREENIEN

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Seraph was sacrificed, more or less. The first death was apparently Link's fault and since then CLG focused on their winning side instead of their losing side, which incidentally won them the game eventually. Nien would've done no better (and he left of his own volition, and in part due to family issues anyways). That said, I don't think Shyvana was the best pick here. If he got going and toplane had gone differently, he could've been a splitpush terror tho, so I can see the logic behind the pick but it certainly didn't pan out.

Also, Dig's composition wasn't superior. I don't get why the casters kept at that. Dig had a great teamfight team but CLG had far superior poke; that's not a superior comp, that's a different one and CLG's map movement allowed them to force Dig to play their game instead and thus Dig never really got the straight-up teamfight they needed. I had thought the community grew out of the "better AOE = better team comp"-stuff back in Season 1 already. They had different comps and CLG played theirs better. Dig needed to setup a flank and a hard engage but they never managed. Had that been e.g. Gambit instead of Dig, the game would've very likely ended differently. Morgana also played a huge part in making it hard for Dig to actually get the engage they needed; Black Shield is a disgusting ability.

[Slayn82]

I keep playing Corki mostly, with Poppy and either Alistair or Nunu coming close. I'm still only lvl 20, and far from being really good, but here's my opinion of the impact of the item changes on test im my gameplay - on Brazilian servers.

Looking at the notes of the proposed item changes, i feel confident that i'll keep my plan of going for BT, starting with the long sword +3 pots, rushing for an early Vamp Scepter and trying to reach the BF sword before the other side, the exact moment when i'm more often than not getting a double kill over their bot duo, unless i'm too much behind. Up to this point, things have very much improved, as i get more 5 AD, at the exact moment when the reduced life steal from Vamp Scepter would really hurt. On the other side, my oposition gets 1 less AD, and 10 less HP than before with Doran's blade, and are stimulated to double down. So, the extra cost on finishing the BT is compensated by the extra Doran's Blade from enemy's ADC.

On this plan, i'm commited to using Teleport and Exaust as my spells. On bot laning, the versatility of phosphorous bomb at punishing the enemy duo for staying too close to each other, negating them having the easy escape of hiding in bushes, or just to dismiss an enemy wave and leave the exausted enemy facing the mob alone can't be understimated. If i'm playing with a experienced Soraka as my support, we can sometimes go Soraka's Starcall, Corki's Phosphorous Bomb on both enemies and clearing minions, Exaust on ADC, Soraka's Starcall hitting both enemies, while i FF on their ADC. If their ADC flashes, i Valk right along.

And then Soraka gets a very affordable item that makes her almost a better Nunu support than Nunu at early and mid game. Specially given the changes on the chalices, i see Ardent Censer being very popular. After playing with Alistair (who also will become pretty awesome at teamfights), i've been wondering if starting with 2 Charms + pots would be feasible, as i'm very annoyed at the Shurelia's right now. Well, Ardent Censer is AP, mana, CDR and the equivalent to basic boots on a single balanced package. Awesome.

On BT vs BotRK, i consider the shield passive on BT a good improvement for Corki, as he is naturally very squishy. With 15 seconds, that shield will stay the better part of the time full, so it's more or less a free giant's belt. The loss of damage and the increased price get compensated by the early strenght of BF Sword, and nowadays i'm more often than not getting Zeal or Sheen after the BF Sword to keep pressure and afford boots. As Corki is naturally very bursty with TriForce, the nerf on BotRK means nothing directly to him, but the enemy ADC is dealing on the short intervall less damage overall, and have to endure more in the fight.

I think Jinks gets the same benefits overall.

[Godskook]

Don't patronize me.

That's all I have to say.

Could you explain how you think he's patronizing you? I've re-read his post 3-4 times, and looked up the definition of the word at least twice, and spent all day at work reviewing this in my head, and I *STILL* don't see anything other than you deflecting your own unwillingness to do even the simplest of research to back up your own position.

[Joran]

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Dig has been getting by on individual talent, their teamwork is most definitely lacking.

CLG had them completely outrotated, but Dig's superior comp eventually won through.

Also, Seraph was completely and totally ineffective the entire game. #FREENIEN

DIG had a couple really nice strategic games against C9 and LMQ. They at least know what they're doing now compared to TSM.

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Seraph was sacrificed, more or less. The first death was apparently Link's fault and since then CLG focused on their winning side instead of their losing side, which incidentally won them the game eventually. Nien would've done no better (and he left of his own volition, and in part due to family issues anyways). That said, I don't think Shyvana was the best pick here. If he got going and toplane had gone differently, he could've been a splitpush terror tho, so I can see the logic behind the pick but it certainly didn't pan out.

Also, Dig's composition wasn't superior. I don't get why the casters kept at that. Dig had a great teamfight team but CLG had far superior poke; that's not a superior comp, that's a different one and CLG's map movement allowed them to force Dig to play their game instead and thus Dig never really got the straight-up teamfight they needed. I had thought the community grew out of the "better AOE = better team comp"-stuff back in Season 1 already. They had different comps and CLG played theirs better. Dig needed to setup a flank and a hard engage but they never managed. Had that been e.g. Gambit instead of Dig, the game would've very likely ended differently. Morgana also played a huge part in making it hard for Dig to actually get the engage they needed; Black Shield is a disgusting ability.

I kept thinking DIG was going to eventually catch the team out. There wasn't much in the way of peel outside of Morgana/Shyvana, but then again, Nidalee, Lucian, and Kha'zix all have nice escapes on their own.

[Forum Explorer]

DIG had a couple really nice strategic games against C9 and LMQ. They at least know what they're doing now compared to TSM.



I kept thinking DIG was going to eventually catch the team out. There wasn't much in the way of peel outside of Morgana/Shyvana, but then again, Nidalee, Lucian, and Kha'zix all have nice escapes on their own.

I think DIG's teamwork has certainly improved from last split to this one.


Same. Right up until they lost, I thought they were going to win. They just couldn't force fights anywhere until their entire base was in shambles.


Anyways, I'm noticing that a lot of Kayle's are going Hurricane. Is it really that good on her, in comparison to Wit's End? Wit's End does provide extra magic damage, magic resist, and magic pen. While Hurricane I believe has more attack speed, and a small boost to Kayle's AoE. I believe they are comparable in price. So why is Hurricane so much more popular, even when going up against teams with some serious magic damage?

[mrcarter11]

I think DIG's teamwork has certainly improved from last split to this one.


Same. Right up until they lost, I thought they were going to win. They just couldn't force fights anywhere until their entire base was in shambles.


Anyways, I'm noticing that a lot of Kayle's are going Hurricane. Is it really that good on her, in comparison to Wit's End? Wit's End does provide extra magic damage, magic resist, and magic pen. While Hurricane I believe has more attack speed, and a small boost to Kayle's AoE. I believe they are comparable in price. So why is Hurricane so much more popular, even when going up against teams with some serious magic damage?

I actually had faith in CLG to win that.. And I was quite happy when they did. I was sad that the top lane got sacked though.

Anyways, as far as I'm aware, RH is gaining popularity as her second item since, the bolts apply the damage from Nashor's passive, while also stacking Kayle's passive on each of the three targets. So, three people get their resistances shreded, while also usually eating the splash damage. As far as I'm aware, it came into popular use about 4-6 weeks ago in Korea.

[Siosilvar]

Could you explain how you think he's patronizing you? I've re-read his post 3-4 times, and looked up the definition of the word at least twice, and spent all day at work reviewing this in my head, and I *STILL* don't see anything other than you deflecting your own unwillingness to do even the simplest of research to back up your own position.

I literally test it out myself and get in response three paragraphs confirming exactly what I just noticed. Maybe I've just had a bad day, but I can't see that as anything except patronizing.

[Winthur]

Could you explain how you think he's patronizing you? I've re-read his post 3-4 times, and looked up the definition of the word at least twice, and spent all day at work reviewing this in my head, and I *STILL* don't see anything other than you deflecting your own unwillingness to do even the simplest of research to back up your own position.

its the lower case letters

I literally test it out myself and get in response three paragraphs confirming exactly what I just noticed.

yeah because you clearly didn't want explanation for why onhits don't go off lifesteal
on behalf of aetherdurex im sorry for providing content and explaining things

[Godskook]

because on-hits don't benefit from lifesteal or spellvamp, and while effects that modify your next attack do.

According to the wiki:

Tiger Udyr's persistent effect procs lifesteal.

Kayle's E procs spellvamp

Cho's E procs spellvamp(arguably not an on-hit at all, but still)

Jax's ult procs spellvamp

Darius' passive has mixed listings about its ability to proc spellvamp, but I can't test it as I don't own him yet.

[Togath]

Something I just thought of; what are generally considered the top junglers/toplanes/midlanes? There's a sort of top tier for support(Braum, Thresh, Morgana, and.. Janna I think?) and adc(Lucian, Twitch, Kog'Maw), so I'd imagine there's a similar for other rolls, correct?
I figure it might help me decide which ones to aim for(or practice with) next(especially since I've ended up saving up a large sum of ip again)

[Cogwheel]

Woah, Kog is popular now? Excellent.

[PersonMan]

Top top laners? I'd say Renekton, Shyvana and Trundle are there right now, but that's mainly based on LCS popularity.

Mid lane we've got LeBlanc, Orianna...probably some others that I'm less aware of.

Junglers, I have no real idea.