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  1. - Top - End - #421
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Tim Proctor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    You seem to not understand what the "defeat a foe with force of arms alone" means, and seem to be confusing it with 'power'. They are distinctly two separate things as defeat a foe with force of arms alone means not through stealth, magic, alchemical devices, but bashing their face in with a weapon. There is a whole other section for power, and you're focusing on an area that is related to the intent of the SI to be able to "defeat a foe with force of arms alone". No one got an FtQ for failure because a low winning rate, because there are a myriad of ways for the RAW completion of the task, but for the spirit of the issue you're looking at a 'force of arms alone'. Alone IMO means without other stuff, and so all that other stuff is removed.

    Nor do you understand that calling someone clueless is an insult.
    I am what lurks under your bridge, I am the troll...

    Not sure about what I said, go back highlight it with your mouse and wham it's magically blue for sarcasm, so like everything on the internet take it with a grain of salt.

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  2. - Top - End - #422
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    this has really opened my eyes. i have only ever played low power lvl 10 and less campaigns. i need to play more high level stuff..... i don't understand how some of the judging happened. why nearly every build polymorphed into a marut. after re reading marut i understand for the high strength and stuff and the other nice goodies.

  3. - Top - End - #423
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    Devil

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    As an ex military service man, I do believe I am more qualified to discuss force of arms than common man.

    Force of arms - arms being short for armaments, as included within firearms, and gunpowder being nothing more than machinery using physics to ignite a chemical reaction, or inother words, an alchemical item.

    There is little point in me continuing this debate. I cannot be bothered to get in trouble over pointing out the fallcaies in your illogical reasoning, nor will i continue to have kuulv be used as the middle man in this. I will lay it out simply, that you do not know the slightest about what you are referring to, using 'statistics' you do not really understand to make these half baked theories and point scores as some form of shield, 'blaming it on the figures'.

  4. - Top - End - #424
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    dysprosium's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    A wise equestrian enthusiast once asked me which was better: bad judging or no judging?

    But it has to be brought up. When there are 13 total disputes for one judge when there are only 21 entries, there has to be something to it. I will admit that I have not read the initial judging nor the disputes and responses very deeply since I plan on submitting judgings myself and would not like to be biased. (Though I am 99.9% sure statistically that I would not be swayed by the initial judging . . .)

    I've called for it constantly about judges being consistent. It really does not matter what style of judging any particular judge takes as long as it is consistent. However this one word seems to be constantly being used in these disputes--consistency--including the build that was scored highest!

    [minor side note: Though not against any rules, I thought it was considered a faux pas to dispute if one's build was in first place. But considering it is calling for consistency I'll let it slide.]

    According to Ponies' chart that was posted last round, the highest spike outside of Round LI's Refuse-to-Judge-gate, was Round LIII which--maybe coincidentally--was the last round that Tim judged. Going back to check 6 out of 8 entries disputed. It seemed to go mostly unnoticed at the time since there ended up being four additional judges that round (including Vaz and Piggy who delivered judging in the style that most of the competitors appreciate).

    Dungeons & Dragons (at least the 1st, 2nd, and 3.X edition) is not a game that is played with statistics or probabilities. Each character is played by an actual person and their skill involved playing their character does not revolve around pressing buttons quickly or having a fast computer server. Computers need to figure out this kind of minutia for their games in order for their algorithms to determine whether or not the person pressed the button at the right time or not to hit the enemy or cast a spell. If playing video game style Dungeons & Dragons is one's cup of tea, one should play 4E. That was designed with the computer and video game player in mind.

    But I imagine that this post will go over like a lead balloon.

  5. - Top - End - #425
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    [minor side note: Though not against any rules, I thought it was considered a faux pas to dispute if one's build was in first place. But considering it is calling for consistency I'll let it slide.]
    I know I've done it at least once - it bumped my Parsifal the Fool build from a 19.5 to a 20. I guess I'm a perfectionist at heart

    That said, regardless of whether the judging is fantastic or reprehensible, I think it's bad form to call out a judge publicly, outside the dispute process. People disagree, sometimes in a big way, but I'd much rather see this sort of thing mediated by the chairman. Otherwise, I think it brings the whole thread down. Not trying to attack you, Vaz - I know that it can be extremely frustrating when it seems like a judge is, as you so aptly put it, refereeing hockey when you're playing football. I just think that this sort of thing should either be done through the chairman, or else done as a personal conversation after the contest is wrapped up.
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  6. - Top - End - #426
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    snip*
    HACKS! I CALL HACKS! lol

  7. - Top - End - #427
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Fair point, Piggy.

    If anything I'm sorry for dragging thread off track slightly, and like I said, I wasn't sure whether to dispute or not (placing meaning nothing). I did, in the end, but when the issues raised were pretty much ignored, i felt it deserved a more public airing, when it became apparent the complaints would be brushed off.

    I'm just awaiting some more capable judging. It is a sad state of affairs when it comes to the point that a competitor is just going to personally ignore a judges scores because of reason,,but it has come down to that. I do not feel like spoonfeeding to him exactly why he is wrong only for him to say, 'i don't care, i am perfect' which having read all of his judgings and disputes, is what comes across. Being told 'yes you have it, but i am ignoring it because houserules' is even more bad form.

    That said, i will leave it at that, and wait for the judges.
    Last edited by Vaz; 2014-07-20 at 03:09 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #428
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    so everyone, how is your day?

  9. - Top - End - #429
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    @ Tim Proctor
    Can you please post your corrupted mathematical formulae, for all to see just exactly how you concocted the scores. For there are 13+ builds disputes for whom there seems no consistency in their scores.

  10. - Top - End - #430
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Getting awfully personal in here for a for-fun contest with no prize, isn't it?
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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  11. - Top - End - #431
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    I'm going to say Monday still. Still at 18/21, but today is already booked up pretty full --- Monday is a little freer.

    Dysprosium and Rama are both working too, so for people who are...perhaps a little too heatedly concerned...with Tim's judging can be optimistic that it will be mitigated somewhat? Though they might be disappointed in me, too, for all I know: Tim's total judging score is 307.2 = 14.63 average. Mine, with 18/21 done is 233.5...an average of 12.97, which can't possibly raise as high as Tim's average with just 3 more builds for me to do (though maybe after disputes? Who knows). Which abruptly seems weird, because I thought I was trying to be as generous and understanding as possible.

  12. - Top - End - #432
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Ikeren, when I judge a 12 is a perfectly good build - not totally forging new ground originality-wise but not the same old thing we've seen a million times before, decent enough power-wise to contribute to most level-appropriate encounters alongside a party, no major rules issues, and uses most of the secret ingredient's abilities even if the build doesn't make me feel like the SI and the build were made for each other. In other words, even if it's not a perfect build, it's not a bad one, either. When I judge, an average score of 12 is pretty common, and any higher means an exceptionally good round.

    As long as your scores are internally consistent, and you feel confident in them, I wouldn't worry overmuch about the average score...
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  13. - Top - End - #433
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Tim Proctor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    @Vaz,
    Thank you for your service, as a Marine Corps Veterans with 2 front-line combat tours under my belt I don't want to get into a pissing match with another veteran (I didn't want to get into one with anyone). Again, I'm sorry that my judging rubs you the wrong way, I hope we can move passed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    According to Ponies' chart that was posted last round, the highest spike outside of Round LI's Refuse-to-Judge-gate, was Round LIII which--maybe coincidentally--was the last round that Tim judged. Going back to check 6 out of 8 entries disputed. It seemed to go mostly unnoticed at the time since there ended up being four additional judges that round (including Vaz and Piggy who delivered judging in the style that most of the competitors appreciate).

    Dungeons & Dragons (at least the 1st, 2nd, and 3.X edition) is not a game that is played with statistics or probabilities. Each character is played by an actual person and their skill involved playing their character does not revolve around pressing buttons quickly or having a fast computer server. Computers need to figure out this kind of minutia for their games in order for their algorithms to determine whether or not the person pressed the button at the right time or not to hit the enemy or cast a spell. If playing video game style Dungeons & Dragons is one's cup of tea, one should play 4E. That was designed with the computer and video game player in mind.
    First off, you're wrong Darkrunner had the 2nd most (which I didn't judge, but thanks for trying to throw me under the bus). In that round (Cenobites) I had 7 disputes, another had 6 and another 5, with the following 2 only with 2 each. As you might notice contestant's will dispute less when they have less of a chance of winning, so the late judges (the two with 2 disputes) have an easier time. I like to give contestants the fair shot because I mess up all the time and want to give them the full opportunity to prove me wrong. If you go through my dispute resolution you'll find I have a high ratio of rewards. Also you should note that while the disputes given where close for all the early judges that none of mine where about my style of judging and any consistency errors in any competition have been dealt with and I apologizes for (don't see any the round you're talking about).

    Nor does this address the issue that some 'disputes' actually acknowledge that Judge was right and that they appreciate the insight, since the table only counts total numbers. I think you'd find that a lot of the issues (several in this round) are not disputes but pleas for lenience.

    Any game designer and person that put significant time in game design will tell you that math and statistics makes a significant issue. They spent more times on the minute details for game balance than the writers do the storyline. The behind the curtains issues are full of examples about how probability and statistics influence the design of the game. Also noted is that they had no idea people would take every word so literally in 3.x while in 2nd very few people did, if anything 3.x was the introduction to logical game design.

    Quote Originally Posted by relytdan View Post
    @ Tim Proctor
    Can you please post your corrupted mathematical formulae, for all to see just exactly how you concocted the scores. For there are 13+ builds disputes for whom there seems no consistency in their scores.
    That's the nicest way anyone has ever asked for information... seeing how consistency was mentioned 4 times and dealt with each time I'd love to hear about the 9 that I'm missing. As far as I know there were 4 issues, related to this:

    1) BAB, which I fixed and apologized for.
    2) Knowledge (arcana), which was fixed and I apologized for.
    3) Armor use which the Stooges (no offense) states that Mechanus Gear is exotic (which I don't believe it is from my reading of the entries), and isn't a valid issue.
    4) Defeating a Foe with force of arms alone, in which people keep confusing the issues of RAW power and RAI 'alone'.

    All of which has been addressed in detail and if you would like me to spell everything out for you I will, but I think that the back-handed insult kinda put a damper in that.
    Last edited by Tim Proctor; 2014-07-21 at 09:38 PM.
    I am what lurks under your bridge, I am the troll...

    Not sure about what I said, go back highlight it with your mouse and wham it's magically blue for sarcasm, so like everything on the internet take it with a grain of salt.

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  14. - Top - End - #434
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    For some reason, I'm getting the feeling that we're delving into this territory:



    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    A wise equestrian enthusiast once asked me which was better: bad judging or no judging?
    Must have been some kind of genius...

    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    [minor side note: Though not against any rules, I thought it was considered a faux pas to dispute if one's build was in first place. But considering it is calling for consistency I'll let it slide.]
    This is the internet, where there's no such thing as a faux pas .

    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    According to Ponies' chart that was posted last round, the highest spike outside of Round LI's Refuse-to-Judge-gate, was Round LIII which--maybe coincidentally--was the last round that Tim judged.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Proctor View Post
    First off, you're wrong Darkrunner had the 2nd most (which I didn't judge, but thanks for trying to throw me under the bus)...Nor does this address the issue that some 'disputes' actually acknowledge that Judge was right and that they appreciate the insight, since the table only counts total numbers. I think you'd find that a lot of the issues (several in this round) are not disputes but pleas for lenience.
    Sorry, gentlemen: you're both wrong.

    I believe it was round 49, but I'd have to go back and view the threads again since I somehow lost the document I used to create the above chart. And Tim, to clarify, I did not count entry acknowledgements of error with the disputes in the chart above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    That said, regardless of whether the judging is fantastic or reprehensible, I think it's bad form to call out a judge publicly, outside the dispute process. People disagree, sometimes in a big way, but I'd much rather see this sort of thing mediated by the chairman. Otherwise, I think it brings the whole thread down. Not trying to attack you, Vaz - I know that it can be extremely frustrating when it seems like a judge is, as you so aptly put it, refereeing hockey when you're playing football. I just think that this sort of thing should either be done through the chairman, or else done as a personal conversation after the contest is wrapped up.
    This man speaks sage wisdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Getting awfully personal in here for a for-fun contest with no prize, isn't it?
    Wouldn't you know it, this guy does too!
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2014-07-21 at 08:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
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    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  15. - Top - End - #435
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post

    I believe it was round 49, but I'd have to go back and view the threads again since I somehow lost the document I used to create the above chart. And Tim, to clarify, I did not count entry acknowledgements of error with the disputes in the chart above.
    Thank you for reposting the chart--for some reason I could not do it myself.

    Round XLIX is not nearly as high as LI. Round L is the one I believe you are referring to my wise equestrian enthusiast--70 disputes--and it is higher than Round LVII which is also indeed higher than LIII.

    Skitters was too busy perching himself in the corner and helping his adventuring party climb the Underdark surfaces to notice the sheer amount of words going by for Round LVII so sorry there Tim.

    Doesn't change anything else I said about Round LIII however . . .

    But like I said in my earlier post--something about flying things being made of dense materials.

    But Ponies, Piggy, and Amph are right. This kind of thing does drag the whole thread down. I apologize for my role in it. I'll be in my office if anyone else wants to discuss this further with me. That means PMs!

  16. - Top - End - #436
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Spoiler: Taishi, 12 out of 20
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    Originality: Spelldancer was clever, but your feat selection/spell selection is super obvious --- Persistent Spell + Giant Size, Arcane Strike, Practised Caster. Fighter was the obvious 1 level dip, and you took it. The illumian strength runes is a classic gish tool, but mixing it with Wu Jen's giant size is clever.

    2.5 out of 5.

    Power: You're at 7th level spells, which is where the expectation is. You don't make it to 16+ BAB. You blow a lot of feats to pull off the persisting trick, and you're missing any sort of combat style aside from arcane strike + Channel spell --- though admittedly you can blow spell slots pretty happily for it. Your fort save (base+9) is a little low to cheat the save for extra spelldances, and you don't mention any of the classic ways to cheat on fortitude saves. It's solid, but a little bit meh for this competition.

    3.5 out of 5.

    Elegance: You blow a lot of feats --- admittedly, 2 fighter bonus feats --- for spelldancer entrance, feats that you leverage in no other way except “Yay, I get free persists now.” Otherwise, you qualify for everything, and I do like 4/1/10/5 splits. You fail to mention leveraging any of the spelldancer abilities aside from persists, and you're right --- they're unbelievably mediocre.

    4 out of 5

    Use of Secret Ingredient:
    Your evasion from spelldancer conflicts with your use of medium armor/mithril heavy armor, so that's hard to count as full leveraging of the arcane spell failure thing. You don't do anything specific or interesting with channel spell, and your spellsword fighter bonus feat is used to qualify for the prestige class, not develop spellsword in a clever and unique way.

    2 out of 5.

    Total score: 12 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Aurelius Deadfeather, 12.5 out of 20
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    Originality: Bard/Nar Demonbinder is original --- the fighter dip, of course, isn't. Using lesser aasimar for something other than clerics is interesting. Your feat selection isn't particularly new, aside from Talafrian song, which requires heighten spell, which you seem to be using to qualify for Nar Demonbinder rather than for its own merits?

    3.0 out of 5.

    Power: You finish with a single 8th level spell, and also only 1 known. You manage to hit the 16+ BAB mark. You're sort of lacking a combat style outside of channel spell, and you blow a feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency but then fail to leverage it in any specific way. Versatile caster is solid, but you're lacking any real metamagic to back it up.

    3.5 out of 5

    Elegance: You're using heighten-like-shenanigans to qualify for a prestige class, which I'm calling a pretty big problem. 5/1/10/4 split isn't awful and you squeezed in as much of Nar Demonbinder as you could. The fiendish bloodline feat is terrible and I've no idea why you've taken it --- it's not mentioned in your entry.

    3.0 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You leverage the channel spell in a clever way (plane shift). The synergy between Nar Demonbinder on a whole and Spellsword is a little weaker, and you use the bonus feat to qualify, rather than develop a unique combat style.

    3.0 out of 5.

    Total score: 12.5 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Meepo, 9.5 out of 20
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    Originality: It's like you went through a high powered caster handbook and ticked off everything. The dragon stuff would be loosely original if it wasn't so terribly overused, Incantatrix and Abjurant Champion are crazily classic. You use fighter for the dip. You go the persist spell route. The only obvious gish thing this build is missing is arcane strike.

    1.5 out of 5.

    Power: With 8th level spells, incantatrix shenanigans, arcane thesis, and a BAB of 17, I imagine this will be one of the higher powered builds in the competition. It's definitely solid, but it's super messy getting there.

    5.0 out of 5.

    Elegance: Venerable Dragonwrought Spellhoarding Kobold. You go 4/1/10/3/2 --- finishing pure incantatrix would have been more powerful, finishing pure abjurant champion would have been cleaner, more thematic, and saved you a feat on practised caster, which you took twice instead of combat casting. You have flaws, a familiar from dragon magazine, and a feat from an Otyugh Hole, and you use the kobold web enhancements.
    You're missing a bunch of the normal entry stuff like a book list, but I generally don't penalize for that.

    It's pretty inelegant. There are a lot of things to get past a DM.
    1.5 out of 5

    Use of Secret Ingredient:
    You don't leverage arcane channelling in any specific clever way, you don't mention the arcane spell failure thing at all, and you use the bonus feat to support your casting style rather than your fighting style --- a fighting style that you don't really have at all. It's not clear why you're not just a pure caster --- with the incantatrix levels, since while you have 17 BAB, you've got basically nothing to do with it.
    1.5 out of 5.

    9.5 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Rohlerryn, 14 out of 20
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    Originality: Steel + Wyrm of War is the dragon combination that pops up everywhere. Bloodclaw master is a good end to it, for sure. I really like that you dedicated your feats to a combat style rather than the generic gish and caster combo that we seem to get more often here.

    4.0 out of 5.

    Power: Cap at 4th level spells and 15 BAB and 5th level maneuvers. The feat chain adds some decent combat versatility, and quicken channelled spell is clever to let you get off a full attack. It's not near the top power range, but it should be able to solidly participate.

    2.5 out of 5.

    Elegance: “those maneuvers may be considered as usable once a day.” Maneuvers without recovery mechanics are usable once per combat. You also have two different settings materials in use. You don't list skills, but I'll just assume those work, because really, you can make them work. There is also the trouble of getting a dragon character with 4 RHD and 2 LA past your DM, but it is a solid build.

    3.5 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient:
    You maximize on channel spell, using a feat to improve it. Your bonus feat works onto a combat style (which I wish you had highlighted a hint more) and you mention how armor can help you in a couple places. Add in all 10 levels and I'm generally pretty pleased with this one.

    4.0 out of 5.

    14 out of 20


    Spoiler: Mekihl Krivim tibur Ptahzur, 13.5 out of 20
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    Originality: Hexblade, Cleric, and Suel Aranamech. Going Dragonborn from metabreath feats is the only thing here that doesn't strike me as super original, but overall, it's very, very neat. You even manage the 3rd level important ability from Suel Aranamech. Good job.

    4.0 out of 5.

    Power: 5th level spells, 18 BAB, a quickened entangling breath, and cha to saves with mettle. Your combat style is actually decently clever, but it relies a little bit on nova-style tactics and your charisma + spells per day is a little weak to support it.

    3.5 out of 5.

    Elegance: You have a dequalify-requalify, heighten for qualifying, you use a template late to reset two feats, and you have a 1/5/4/10 split...actually, that's pretty expected for this one, nevermind that part. But the first three things are pretty substantial problems.

    1.5 out of 5

    Use of Secret Ingredient:
    You take all 10 levels, and have some clever ways to use channel spell. You stack up additional arcane spell failure, which is great, and your bonus feat leads into your combat style. Yep, that's pretty substantial maximization on the class features.

    4.5 out of 5.

    Total score: 13.5 out of 20


    Spoiler: Halfdan the Black, 14 out of 20
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    Originality: The Nar Demonbinder showed up in a few places. Using cleric to qualify for it was clever, though, and the LA Primordial Half Giant is definitely an unexpected choice. Your feats are a pretty standard power attack+psionics line and pretty standard casting stuff, but not terrible.

    4.0 out of 5.

    Power: With 16 BAB and full Nar Demonbinder casting (clever) providing 8th level spells, and a solid melee schtick, this is where I see the higher end of this competition going without breaking into ridiculous cheese. The only real problem I see is your cleric casting level, which by 10+ isn't high enough to stop any dispels from eating those convenient all day buffs you mention (which aren't really all day at CL7).

    4.0 out of 5.

    Elegance: 7/2/10 split. Whether you get bonus spells based on charisma from 1-3 on a prestige class with 4th+ casting is pretty iffy even when you add them via a feat --- so no, I'm not sure you get glitterdust --- which also makes it unclear if you even actually qualify for spellsword. It's also a little mushy – you're a priest demonbinder spellsword giant fey, which is a bit wide to swallow. I also think you're deliberately misreading dweomer of transferance:
    With this spell, you form a radiating corona around the head of a psionic ally, then convert some of your spells into psionic power points.
    You can cast any spell you like at the subject...but you must still cast them normally...you cast into the dweomer of transference,
    The emphasis on “You” to “Them” is heavy --- you seem to be reading the single sentence in the middle of the spell description
    any spells cast at the subject don’t have their usual effect,
    over the other 5 instances of “you”.

    Which I think you'll get past exactly 2% of DM's, the ones who are already playing tippyverse games. Multiple shivering touches don't stack.

    It's a good build, but the rules stuff is pretty ambiguous across the board. You also have an eberron and Faerun mix and a flavour mix between Fey and the undead focus.

    2.0 out of 5.0

    Use of Secret Ingredient:
    If things work the way you say --- it's excellent. You leverage everything in interesting and potentially useful ways.

    4.0 out of 5.

    Total score: 14 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Anti the Kinslayer, 15.5 out of 20
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    Originality: Battle Sorcerer, eh, with no prestige classes or other classes? Neraphrim (or general outsider cheese) is a little classic, as are the feats selection.

    3.0 out of 5.

    Power: 8th level spells, 17 BAB, and a full set of casting feats. You're a bit crucially short on the higher level spells known, but it's not terrible. You're clever tricks and uses of channel spell help bring this build up to snuff; you've only got 5 channels, but a quicken channelled whirling blade is, indeed, as you note, brilliant.

    4.0 out of 5.

    Elegance: With 11/9 on the split, you're doing pretty darn fine. The feats are straight forward --- it all seems to simple. The only real challenge that I could see the build facing at a table is getting the DM to actually let you use the spells as if the effect sticks to the target; rather than nerfing them down to a 5 foot effect. The other half point penalty here is because you blew 2 whole feats on heavy armor proficiency, which is excessive.

    4.0 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: Noticing that channel spell lets you hit people with no-save area spells and keep them on them is super interesting and clever, and I don't have a major complaint about that interpretation. You use channel spell brilliantly as a result, as well as the BAB, arcane spell failure. While my instinct is to run towards complex builds, you demonstrate you can be clever and efficient with just the basics.

    4.5 out of 5.

    Total score: 15.5 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Subjugator Sarlagiin, 13 out of 20
    Show


    Originality: Yak Folk, Soulbourn, Suel Aranamach. Yep. One of the feats I've never even heard of before. All in all, super original. 4.5 out of 5.

    Power: BAB 17, 3rd level spells, and power attack-shocktrooper-quarterstaff combat style. It's clever and interesting, but it isn't crazily powerful, especially for a gish.

    2.0 out of 5.

    Elegance: With 3 levels in 2 classes, you're a bit heavy on the dips, even for this competition. Add in the massive RHD and LA and it's probably a little challenging to swing at the table.

    3.5 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: Your channel options are mediocre and extremely limited (as a result of your weak casting options). The Arcane Spell failure and BAB definitely help, and you use the bonus feat to support your combat style, so it's not all bad, but you don't capitalize on the main offensive ability as much as you could.

    3.0 out of 5.

    13 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Lawrence Curly Admo, 15.5 out of 20
    Show


    Originality: With Jester, Thrall of Demogorgon (though 4 levels is the obvious breakpoint, as noted in a guide I once wrote :P ) and a decent set of feats, it's definitely original. The only thing that prevents you from a full score here is Assume Supernatural Ability is cliched and you use it in a classic (but not original) way.

    4.5 out of 5

    Power: You have 18 BAB and only 5th level spells, making you bard-esque. Your spell selection is limited enough to not particularly impress me, and a lot of your attempts to prop up your power seem to be entirely based around some of the most cliched and well known cheese. It's solid, but you're missing about 3 levels of power you need, and your feats go to amping up cheese, rather than a combat style that could have actually made the numerous attacks your putting out more useful.

    3.0 out of 5.

    Elegance: 6/4/10 split is clean. You throw on a little bit too much cheese here for a full score, and being dedicated to an elder evil is often problematic.

    4.0 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You're pretty short on interesting and valuable channels, especially compared to some of the other builds. Pairing multiple channel and thrall of demogorgon and choker to overcome the action restriction would be more impressive if Spellsword couldn't hold their channels for 8 hours (a point you maybe missed? If I was playing with a Spellsword and he tried to in combat channel, I'd be like “whoa dude, what are you doing?”) --- with only 5 day, it's really just a pre-combat prep, the same way a spellstoring weapon is.

    4.0 out of 5

    Total score: 15.5


    Spoiler: Balthos of Myr 15 out of 20
    Show


    Originality: Sha'ir, Marshall, Legacy Champion are all good-to-very original. Your feat selection and race are less so, unfortunately.

    3.5 out of 5.

    Power: With 6th level spells, 17 BAB, and a legacy + arcane strike + 6 damage blade of force style combat, that's pretty slick. I think your abjurant champion/2handed route is actually a power boost here, but your spells per day at the higher levels are a little short --- but you're getting a half point extra for solid versatility out of combat on the gish.

    4.0 out of 5.

    Elegance: The legacy champion ruling is super ambiguous, as is everything with regards to the class. However, you presented a couple viable alternatives, which I appreciate. The human paragon + marshall + 2 levels of base class ends up feeling a little dippy, and any character based around a legacy weapon is at least a hint unstable. Your missing skills, but I'll presume they work. You don't qualify for arcane strike at the level you take it at, but I think you can swap the legacy's around and make it work.

    3.5 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: The legacy champion variant really maximizes on the secret ingredient, which is pretty necessary: 5 channels is not sufficient to base a class around. You have whirling blade (if it works) and the divine side helping out, which is all around a pretty clever way to make a spellsword. Your bonus feat isn't legal, I think (Practised caster? It has to be metamagic or fighter bonus?)

    4.0 out of 5.

    Total score: 15 out of 20


    Spoiler: Anh the Houseless, 15 out of 20
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    Originality: Death Master (what?) and Master Thrower. Your combat style is Koa-Tao harpoon, which is even more strange. It's out there enough that I'd be tempted to give you a 5, despite the fighter levels and somewhat classic feats.

    4.5 instead seems pretty fair.

    Power: 19 BAB and a decent combat style (though I'm more partial to the “HI, ALL MY ATTACKS ARE ALSO TRIPS!” thrown weapon trick) and your melee side is pretty solid. On the casting side, you've only got 4th level spells. Your best trick is a double enervation (if your DM lets it work) which is solid, but pretty limited --- especially taking into account spellswords limited numbers of channels.

    3.0 out of 5.

    Elegance: 2/3/10/5 is a pretty standard split, and none of your feats are overwhelmingly bizarre (except the Kao-tao harpoons). The race, and the convincing your DM to actually let double throw let you channel twice are your own challenges here.

    4 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You're not maximizing on the casting, though I did like that you used the bonus feat to progress your casting style, and the prestige class to work up dual channel in a better method. I think it's a little overly nova-troubled, especially looking at your spells, but it isn't bad.

    3.5 out of 5.

    Total Score: 15 out of 20


    Spoiler: Starshatter, 11.5 out of 20
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    Originality: Knight of the Weave/Paladin is pretty original, as is your race. The feat selection is a little cliched, but overall, pretty good.

    4.0 out of 5

    Power: 6th level spells and 18 BAB, with a combat style focused on buffing. You're channelling options are notably truly mediocre, offering dispel magic and mark of justice (bestow curse), and you've little to provide “you actually have to pay attention to me” melee power.

    2.0 out of 5

    Elegance: Knight of the Weave casts arcane spells, divine metamagic only applies to divine spells. Your race (feytouched star elf) is a little wordy and you have level adjustment (and possible buyoff) in your build. That being said, the way Knight of the Weave is finished by Spellsword is pretty slick.

    3.5 out of 5

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You really skimp on using the channelling to full degree. Knight of the Weave has a conflicting armored casting ability. And you use the Spellsword bonus feat for a metamagic feat that you actually don't really need. The thing you capitalize best on is the spellcasting.

    2.0 out of 5.

    Total score: 11.5 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Drylax, 12 out of 20
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    Originality: Whelp, there was the build that everyone who isn't blind expected. The only original moment was shield specialization and buckler defense with a spiked chain.

    1.5 out of 5

    Power: With 8th level wizard spells at play, you're at the upper level of the power range for the competition. And you actually have a combat style, which is pretty decent, too. It's a combat style which relies on you taking punches, which seems iffy, but you went for it, at least.

    4.5 out of 5.

    Elegance: 1/6/8/5 split is a little messy. Aside from that, you're fine. It's classic. Everyone has run something that looks like this in a game already.

    4.5 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You didn't finish it. Abjurant champion lets you use the buffs without armor, and you could just be using a mithril buckler. You have channel spell, but you don't do anything special --- and both arcane strike and abjurant champion provide their own version.

    1.5 out of 5.

    Total score: 12 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Balthazar Naught, 12.5 out of 20.
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    Originality: Sha'ir is starting to become cliched here, though I have no idea why. Probably because over the years of competition people penalized core casters just for existing so you get people obsessing over the Dragon Magazine Compendium casters --- or because of the power boost perceived with them? Either way, it's seriously odd. The Radiant Servant/Sacred Exorcist dips are a little overdone in traditional optimization, as is DMM persist and Southern Magician.

    2.5 out of 5.

    Power: Damn solid spell list, and good eye to selections. With 8th level spells, your a solid caster, but your combat style is fuelled almost solely by BAB14 and Arcane strike, which is a little shy.

    4 out of 5.

    Elegance: Using Text trumps table errors to qualify is amusing, but might be hard to get past a DM. Using Southern Magician at all is an even bigger challenge, which is going to put your persistent shenanigans to challenge. And the double dip in the middle might raise some eyebrows.

    3 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You have whirling blade for arcane channel, but you're a little short on BAB to get the most of it. Your bonus feat is casting based rather than melee based, which I vaguely dislike. You seem to generally minimize the melee side and maximize the casting side, which leads to the question why you're not some other prestige class.

    3 out of 5.

    Total Score: 12.5 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Naras, 12 out of 20
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    Originality: Bladesinger is original. The rest isn't really, except a few of the feats.

    3.0 out of 5.

    Power: 7th level spells. Your combat style (1 blade) is downright terrible even with the sunk feats, though at least you hit the 17 BAB mark for arcane strike.

    3.0 out of 5.

    Elegance: The split (2/6/3/9) is a little messy, but you don't try to anything super complicated, so aside from that, you're fine. You're short 1 point of BAB for qualifying for Spellsword, which is a bit of a problem.

    3.5 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You don't finish the prestige class, you don't shout out any particularly clever channels. Bladesinger gives you int to AC when in light armor or weaker, but the spellswords level will equip you to use a shield or heavier armor --- mithril breastplate is the best you can use, and you won't be maximizing on your spell failure ignorance. You paid too much to take those bladesinger levels for too little gain, and not synnergistic gain.

    2.5 out of 5.

    12 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Onnedad Kairdwen, 15 out of 20
    Show


    Originality: Whelp, there is a whole list of classes not really expected here. Illumian in Gishes and Sanctum/Earth spell boosting is a little cliched, but otherwise good.

    4.5 out of 5.

    Power: There is versatility and power here, for sure. You've got 6th level arcane, a bit of divine, and 17 BAB with channelling from two sources and minor shapeshift. Unfortunately, you blow a lot of feats to make your “final” trick work, which seems overwhelmingly bizarre: I think your power score would have been fine without doing it (and just going arcane strike + TWF or whatever) and it generates an elegance hit.

    3.5 out of 5

    Elegance: The “Heighten to 9th” stuff is cliched and generally not impressive. You're progressing chameleon with +1 arcane caster levels, which is ambiguous (do you still count as an arcane caster when not wearing the mantle? You better make sure you gain levels with the arcane focus up, etc). And 1/2/3/4/10 is a bit of a messy split.

    3 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: I have no idea why you use your bonus feat on exotic weapon proficiency whip, especially since it isn't mentioned in your writeup. Is it like “Hi, I don't need this bonus feat?” You use the arcane casting (well) and have some neat ideas for channel and for armor. Overall, pretty good.
    4 out of 5.

    Total: 15 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Naphesche Zarna , my honourable mention, 14 out of 20
    Show


    Originality: Huh, neat. While you use some cliched classes and feats, the total pile of them makes something relatively unexpected for a spellsword --- a sneaky debuffing two weapon fighter. I'm going to give this a higher score than I would if I looked at each part in isolation because the sum is so neat.

    2.5 + 1.5 bonus = 4 out of 5.

    Power: With 3d6 sneak attack, 16 BAB, and Sickening and Staggering sneak attack riders and ability damage, this is what a good lockdown rogue power level looks like. If you can sneak up on someone, you can bring them down, and you have a solid array of tools to make sure that this happens. Unfortunately, with only 4th level spells off a very limited list, it's pretty below par for this competition.

    3.0 out of 5.

    Elegance: 1/1/2/3/5/8 split, you build like I do :P . Aside from that, you're using spellsword to pick up very partial casting, which is pretty inelegant. Nothing else crazy in here though, so that's good for you.

    4.0 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You only take 8 out of 10 levels, and the focus here isn't entirely on channel spell; it merely augments the things you'd be doing anyways. The arcane spell failure helps you since Thayan Slaver's cast as wizards and you use the bonus feat well.

    3.0 out of 5.

    14 out of 20.

    The honourable mention: It's ambitious and clever and you build in a very similar way to me. In my type of game, this would fly easily. For a spellsword, it doesn't seem like as good a fit as some other builds.


    Spoiler: Amueli Rthaceu, 16 out of 20
    Show


    Originality: Death Master and Arcane Archer are pretty original. The feats are a little classic, but just a little.

    4.5 out of 5

    Power: 18 BAB, 7th level spells, and a functioning combat shtick. I'd loved if you could get up to 8th level spells, but either way, it's pretty darn solid.

    4.0 out of 5.

    Elegance: Channelling into an Elvencraft Bow and then shooting the channelled arrows is pretty ambiguous, and I'm not certain DM's would allow it. Otherwise, it's a pretty darn clean and straighforward build.

    4.0 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You have a variety of good channelling options and come up with a synnergy with Arcane Archer that lets you pull off a few more tricks. The bonus feat is used to progress your combat style (which I like vaguely more than people using it for casting), and you make use of the armor, casting and BAB in the same way that basically everyone does.

    3.5 out of 5.

    Total score: 16 out of 20


    Spoiler: Exavier, 8 out of 20
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    Originality: Rainbow Servant is a gish is slightly original, as is the elf subrace. The feats are pretty standard, as is the wizard base class.

    3.0 out of 5.

    Power: You have 8th level spells and standard metamagic feats, plus 14 BAB and Arcane strike. You're not super functional in combat except through persist buffing, which you don't have any way to pay for aside from blowing spell slots.

    2.5 out of 5.

    Elegance: You use persistent divine power to enter Spellsword, which is iffy at best --- especially because Persistent spell costs 6 spell levels higher and divine power is a 4th level spells. I have no idea what you're doing here, and you don't take the time to explain it to me. Rainbow servant doesn't provide the heavy armor proficiency, either, so I'm super confused.

    1.0 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You use the bonus feat to help your metamagics, and you use the arcane spell failure to wear armor presumably, and you have some spells to channel. None of your other classes synnergize in any unique or useful way, and you don't call out a single specific clever spell combination.

    1.5 out of 5.

    Total score: 8 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Experiment Novem, 13 out of 20
    Show


    Originality: Are you a crusader or Babarian? Table trumps text, I guess :P. Oh well, either gets used relatively slightly. Soul eater is original, but we saw a few Nar Demonbinders here already, same with Neraph. Feats are nothing particularly clever and original.

    3.0 out of 5.

    Power: 8th level spells, 16 BAB, power attack + arcane strike + level drain. You've got solid combat ability, and the idea of channelling planar binding is super interesting.

    4.5 out of 5.

    Elegance: While I generally agree with you on Heighten + Spontaneous Divinations + Versatile caster, we both understand that many DM's wont. Taking weapon focus for a weapon based natural attack (why is it even called a natural attack? You're using a weapon?) is a little problematic, and then using it to qualify for Soul eater is even sketchier. Add in being pure evil and wanting stacks of demonic grafts, I imagine this character to be only playable with the most lenient of DM's.

    2.0 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You come up with some clever (if ambiguous) channels, and you use the ASF, caster levels in the way most people do. Your bonus feat is power attack, which you don't power up in any particular way --- your later feats go to a standard caster trick and Fey Bloodline for a 9th level spell, which is, of course, a dubious ruling as well.

    3.5 out of 5.

    Total score: 13 out of 20.


    Spoiler: Giorre, 15.5 out of 20, +0.5 = 16 out of 20
    Show


    Originality: Ruathar (seriously?) and Thrall of Orcus are the unexpected elements, as are a good chunk of your feats. That makes it score decently for originality.

    4.0 out of 5.

    Power: You finish with 16+ bab, 8th level spells, and your combat shtick is clever (area attack + channel spell).

    4.5 out of 5.

    Elegance: Ruathar has a flavour problem. Area attack + polymorph + channel spell might have trouble getting past a DM, depending on the game. Dedicating to an Elder Evil has similar trouble. Thrall of Orcus is a bit dippy, though I can definitely see why.

    3.5 out of 5.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: You come up with a clever channel. You use the armor stuff in the standard way, and your bonus feat is Power attack, which you point out in a dispute that you use for area attack and Beloved of Demons

    4.0 out of 5.

    16 out of 20.


    That's it for me. Feel free to start throwing disputes my way. I tried to fiddle with that chart but I really didn't feel like it and it was complicated.

  17. - Top - End - #437
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Ikeren beat me by an hour, but let's go ahead and make it a two-fer.

    My basic criteria (disclaimer: subject to deviation as I deem necessary) are as follows:

    SCORING CONSIDERATIONS
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    ORIGINALITY
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    • Does the entry present a compelling backstory/concept that ties in with the SI? – up to 1.00 points
    • Does the entry make use of any unique mechanical tricks/feat chains as a significant aspect of the submission? – up to 1.00 points
    • Does the entry enter the Secret Ingredient through use of race and/or class combinations both unexpected and unique relative to the other entries? – up to 1.50 points
    • Does the entry avoid known cheese and overused optimization suggestions? – up to .50 points


    POWER
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    • Does the entry contribute significantly in terms of offense, defense, and/or utility throughout the build? – up to 3.00 points
    • Does the entry function at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on "nova" powers? - up to .50 points
    • Does the addition of the SI improve, maintain, or weaken the SI's power? - up to .50 points


    ELEGANCE
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    • Does the entry qualify for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient? – up to 2.00 points
    • Does the entry qualify for all feats taken? – up to .50 points
    • Does the entry avoid reliance on any questionable rules interpretations, or cross-setting material? – up to 1.00 points
    • Does the entry avoid multi-class penalties and/or excessive class dipping? – up to .50 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT
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    • Does the entry use the Secret Ingredient at an early stage of the build and complete the Secret Ingredient (or present a compelling reason why not doing so is actually a better use of the Secret Ingredient)? – up to 1.50 points
    • Does the entry utilize all mechanical abilities provided by the SI (and its prerequisites) as key components of the build, synergize the unique mechanical abilities of the Secret Ingredient with the rest of the build, and/or present a novel use of said mechanical abilities? – up to 1.50 points
    • Does the entry emphasize the concept of the SI throughout, and build upon that concept in a thorough manner? – up to 1.00 points

      Note that failure to mechanically qualify for the SI will result in an automatic score of 0 in this category. Failure to meet the RP requirement will result in a 1.00 point penalty.




    So without further ado, I offer the following opinions:

    Taishi – Final Score: 8.50 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 3.00 Points
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    • There’s some potential with the backstory, but it doesn’t really feature the SI. It’s more the backstory of how she became a Spelldancer. I’d like to see a little more emphasis on the SI here. +.50 points
    • No significant unique feat approaches noted. +.00 points
    • Spelldancer is a nice addition. Nice to see a wu jen in the competition as well. Race, however, was expected and well utilized; as was a fighter dip to meet those pesky weapons reqs. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 2.00 Points
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    • Offensively, average as compared to other entries, with a second half that comes in below average as it hits neither the 4-attacks-per-day or post-level-7 spells heights reached by other entries. Defense is average, no real stand out tricks or major deficiencies. Saves are fairly solid at the midpoint and beyond. Utility is limited, some benefit from skills but average in relation to the rest of the competition. Spells do not present any specific utility benefit, as none are hi-lighted. +.75 points
      Additional note: Because you don’t qualify for Spelldancer (see Elegance) and other aspects of the build, those class abilities are not factored into your power score.
    • The entry is somewhat constrained by spellcasting limitations, with fewer alternatives when spellcasting runs out or is turned off than other entries have presented. +0.00
    • I don’t get a great feel that the SI is enhancing power here. While that could be aided if spell choices were presented to hi-light a specific approach towards the SI’s abilities, it feels more like maintaining at best. +.25 points


    ELEGANCE – 3.50 Points
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    • You don’t qualify for the Dodge or Mobility feats, as you don’t have the minimum 13 dex required. You also don’t qualify for Metamagic School Focus as you don’t have the Spell Focus feat pre-req. +.00 points
    • Because of the Dodge issue, you don’t qualify for Spelldancer. Otherwise, qualifies for all classes taken. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations and cross-setting material. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 0.00 Points
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    • Unfortunately, you do not qualify for the SI. The SI requires a BAB of +4 to enter, and yours is +3 when you take the first level. As such, your score in UotSI is set to 0.





    Aurelius Deadfeather – Final Score: 12.00 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 3.25 Points
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    • That’s a rather disturbing backstory. I don’t really see how it’s emphasizing or tying in to the SI though; it seems to hi-light the bardic and demonbinding elements more than the SI. +.50 points
    • Feats are fairly standard/expected, although Talfrian song is interesting. +.25 points
    • Bard is an interesting approach. Nar Demonbinder I didn’t expect, but it did see other usage. Race not used elsewhere, although I was expecting it to see usage. Fighter was common dip. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 2.50 Points
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    • Offensively provides nice support early and into the middle stages of the build. The transition to a melee focus with the SI is a little rough, and lags a little behind in power through the middle stage of the build. At the late stages, adding that 4th attack is nice; but the spellcasting is hurting. Defensively, average. No specific tricks or deficiencies noted, and saves are reasonably nice (although reflex is a bit vulnerable in the middle stage). Utility is above average early and middle, average late. +1.00 points
      Additional note: Because you don’t qualify for Nar Demonbinder (see Elegance), those elements are not considered in your power score.
    • I feel the SI is actually hurting power here. Your bardic and demonbinding abilities are the centerpiece, and stopping to take a dip in the SI’s pool isn’t really helping. Armor is nice, but that’s about it; and it doesn’t really offset what you’d be gaining just by staying where you were. And while you do note usage of channel spell, your damage output isn’t sufficient to merit the added risk of indulging in melee combat to cast those spells, when you could just do most of them from a distance. +0.00 points
    • The entry avoids complete reliance on spellcasting nova powers, and has alternatives when those rundry. +.50 points


    ELEGANCE – 2.75 Points
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    • You don’t qualify for Nar Demonbinder, for multiple reasons; the most notable of which is that you only cast 3rd level spells, and need 4th level to qualify. You also don’t note that you meet the summon monster spell requirement, or the Abyssal language requirement. Otherwise, qualifies for all classes. +1.00 points
    • You don’t qualify for Fiendish Bloodline. Otherwise, qualifies for all feats. +.25 points
    • The entry avoids cross setting material and questionable rules interpretations. +.50 points
    • You have a multiclass exp penalty issue when you add the fighter dip, which follows you the rest of the way. +0.00 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 3.50 Points
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    • The entry enters the SI at a reasonably early stage and takes it to completion reasonably promptly. +1.50 points
    • The entry does feature the abilities of the SI, most notably the channel spell. I particularly enjoy some of your suggested applications; while they may not be the most optimal, I like the bad guy flair. +1.50 points
    • Despite the previous note, the feel isn’t great. The overall feel of the class seems more tied into the bardic flair and demonbinding evilness, rather than the SI itself. It’s a little buried under the weight of the rest of the entry. +.50 points.
    • Additional: You don’t address the RP requirement to defeat an enemy without magic. (1.00) points





    Meepo – Final Score: 6.25 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 1.25 Points
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    • No background presented. +0.00 points
    • Feats have issues (see Elegance) and noting significantly unique is presented. +0.00 points
    • Kobold was not used, but somewhat expected for the cheese elements noted below. Likewise for the Incantatrix dip, although the fact that neither was used elsewhere merits a small award. The rest was expected. +.25 points
    • Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold and the Draconic Rites of Passage are pretty cheesy/overused. Likewise for Otyugh Hole receipt of Iron Will feat. +0.00 points


    POWER – 2.50 Points
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    • To be honest, power here is difficult to judge. Presented spells and a theme would help. Just in general, I’d expect the power level to be high for a mostly-straight spellcaster. The kobold shenanigans help as well, despite the aroma of gruyere wafting through the room. But the many issues (see Elegance) disqualify much of what you’ve got listed as power/options. I’m ballparking the score here, and probably being a little generous to be honest. +1.50 points
    • Heavily dependent on nova spellcasting. Once that runs dry, no real viableoptions. +0.00 points
    • The SI here really weakens the power of the theoretical build. Straight spellcasting levels are infinitely superior, and the SI mechanics aren’t utilized to overcome this hit. +0.00 points


    ELEGANCE – 1.00 Points
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    • Rather than score Elegance by my usual template, I am auto-scoring at 1.00 points. There are multiple errors in the build, which cause significant problems throughout. The most noteworthy are listed as follows.
    • Your skill points are not correct. Your only knowledge skill that’s a class skill is Arcana. The rest are cross class skills, and as such all skills are overstated.
    • You have too many feats at level 1. Dragonwrought, Education, Eschew Materials, Scribe Scroll. You get 1 for lvl 1, taking 1 flaw gets another, leaves you with 2 too many.
    • Forbidden material used – Flaws, Dragon magazine material in Spellhoarding


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 1.50 Points
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    • The SI is entered at a reasonably early point, and promptly carried to completion. +1.50 points
    • The SI abilities are not really used at all in this build. The signature ability in channel spell is not even mentioned, let alone emphasized as an element of the character. +0.00 points
    • As previously noted, this is a cheesy kobold spellcaster; pretty much in that order. If I were describing this character without listing classes taken, Spellsword would not be mentioned. +0.00 points
    • Additional: You don’t address the RP requirement to defeat an enemy without magic. (1.00) points





    Rohlerryn – Final Score: 8.50 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 2.75 Points
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    • While the intro text is nice, I don’t get any feel for the character or the SI from it. +.25 points
    • No significant unused/unexpected feat chains noted. +0.00 points
    • An actual dragon definitely wasn’t expected, although it brings its own issues. Bloodclaw Master likewise. Sorcerer highly expected. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 3.00 Points
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    • Offensive power is significant early, because dragon. Mid-levels start off so as well, although it weakens somewhat with the SI levels; being small sized hurts the offensive bull rush elements you’ve built in. At the top end, hurting from the limited spellcasting and lack of 4th attack in relation to other entries; although flight helps offset that. Defensively the mobility from flight helps, but otherwise no significant elements. Utility cannot be judged as skills are not presented. +1.25 points.
    • Nova spellcasting powers reliance is mitigated by flight and related attack possibilities you’ve built in. +.50 points
    • The SI at first blush seems like it hurts here. There are some potential applications of channel spell + flyby attack, but I’d like to see them explored more. +.25 points


    ELEGANCE – 2.75 Points
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    • As skill points are not presented, qualification for Bloodclaw Master (jump 9 ranks) cannot be assumed. Otherwise, qualifies for all non-SI classes. +1.00 points
    • Don’t qualify for leap attack due to skill points not presented (jump 8 ranks). +.25 points
    • You’re going to have major issues with your DM using Steel Dragon with the progression you’ve presented, which could be an issue. Also note that you’ve got the LA coming after the racial HD (5 and 6), when it should be 1 and 2. +0.00 points
    • The entry avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 0.00 Points
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    • Unfortunately, we have a qualification issue. As you do not present the skills section of the build, I cannot verify that you meet the 6 ranks in Know (arc) requirement for the SI. As such, I must score you at 0 points in UotSI




    Mekihl Krivim tibur Ptahzur– Final Score: 12.75 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 4.75 Points
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    • Nice background, leads into and meshes with the SI. +1.00 points
    • A fairly unique batch of feat selections; I particularly like adding in some fear, and the battle curse. +1.00 points
    • Interesting class choices, and mostly unexpected. Race selection was fairly common. +1.25 points
    • The entry avoids overused cheese and other optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 3.00 Points
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    • Below average offense early due to stunted spell levels, but the fear addition helps out. Offense maintains average strength in relation to the other builds in the middle levels, but falls to below average by the end, again primarily due to significantly less spellcasting without significant offset. Defensively has a few potential options that others don’t, but nothing major. On utility, has some early but is sub-par in the middle and end levels. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids reliance on just spellcasting nova powers, and has options when those run out. +.50 points
    • In this case, I feel the SI improves the power of the build. +.50 points


    ELEGANCE – 5.00 Points
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    • Qualifies for all non-SI classes taken. +2.00 points
    • Qualifies for all feats. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids reliance on cross setting material and questionable rules interpretations. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 0.00 Points
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    • Unfortunately, we have a qualification issue. Needs 2nd level spellcasting, only has first level spells. As such, UotSI score set to 0.00




    Halfdan the Black – Final Score: 16.75 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 3.25 Points
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    • Very nice introduction. Fits with the SI as well. +1.00 points
    • I like the fey bloodline trick, very nice. Otherwise, the feats were pretty commonly used. +.25 points
    • Heavy cleric usage was unique, as was the primordial giant. Demonbinder saw a fair bit of activity though. +1.00 points
    • Primordial giant is a rather overused suggestion imo; it’s seen a lot of play recently. +0.00 points


    POWER – 4.00 Points
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    • Offensively strong and near the top as compared to the other entries throughout. Defensively average with no significant countermeasures, plus reflex is a glaring weakness. Utility is above average early, but decreases as the build progresses. +2.00 points
    • The entry has plenty of options once spellcasting runs out, and is not reliant on nova powers. +.50 points
    • The addition of the SI, particularly the usages of channel spell, increase the entry’s power. +.50 points


    ELEGANCE – 5.00 Points
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    • Qualifies for all non-SI classes. +2.00 points
    • Qualifies for all feats. +.50 points
    • Entry avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations and cross setting material. +1.00 points
    • Entry avoids multi-classing penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 4.50 Points
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    • Enters the SI later than average, but does take it to completion. +1.00 points
    • Mechanically the entry synergizes well with the SI. I really like the power increases you’ve added to the channel spell ability. +1.50 points
    • The feel of the entry is right. While Nar Demonbinder threatens to overwhelm it, you keep it in check and blend it together nicely. +1.00 points




    Anti the Kinslayer – Final Score: 15.50 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 2.50 Points
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    • Interesting approach to the SI. Would be interested in learning how the character became involved as a spellsword if magic is despised. +1.00 points
    • Feats were standard choices when compared to expectations and other entries. +0.00 points
    • Race and classes were well represented by other entries. +0.00 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 3.25 Points
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    • Offensively, power is above average throughout. Hitting level 8 spells and 4 attacks/round at 20 is very nice. Defensively has some decent spellcasting options, although reflex is a bit of a vulnerable point that isn’t really addressed. Utility is below average throughout as compared to other entries. +2.00 points
    • The entry is rather reliant on its spellcasting, and doesn’t have significant alternatives when that isn’t available. +0.00 points
    • I’m thinking that the SI here maintains power at best rather than really enhancing it. Just staying battle sorcerer and getting 9th level spells would be superior, albeit mitigated by the additional armor. +.25 points


    ELEGANCE – 5.00 Points
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    • Entry qualifies for all non-SI classes. +2.00 points
    • Entry qualifies for all feats. +.50 points
    • Entry avoids cross setting material and questionable rules interpretations. +1.00 points
    • Entry avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 4.75 Points
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    • The entry enters the SI at a reasonably early level; however, it fails to complete. Level 8 spells is a reasonable reason not to, but you do miss out on the capstone. +1.25 points
    • The entry integrates the SI’s abilities (notably channel spell) throughout the build. +1.50 points
    • The entry feels right for the SI, and emphasizes the concept throughout. I can call this a spellsword. +1.00 points





    Subjugator Sarlagiin – Final Score: 13.50 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 3.50 Points
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    • Nice background, grabbed my attention with the character and I can see him as a spellsword. +1.00 points
    • Eilservs school is an interesting feat choice, but comes so late it doesn’t have a significant impact; and the rest is fairly standard. +.00 points
    • Yak Folk is different, as is Soulborn. The rest was fairly standard. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 3.00 Points
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    • Offensive power early is strong, and stays above average into the middle levels. Going into the endgame of the build, however, power dips precipitously as compared to the rest of the submissions. Defensively doesn’t have any standout abilities, but no glaring weaknesses either. Utility is sub-par compared to other submissions throughout. +1.25 points
    • The entry avoids excessive reliance on nova spellcasting powers, and has reasonable alternatives available once those run out. +.50 points
    • The addition of the SI slightly improves the SI’s power, although it would be better with more options to add to channel spell. +.25 points


    ELEGANCE – 5.00 Points
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    • The entry qualifies for all non-SI classes. +2.00 points
    • The entry qualifies for all feats. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations and cross setting materal. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids multi-class exp penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 2.00 Points
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    • The entry enters the SI at a late point relative to other submissions, but does take it to completion. +.75 points
    • The entry doesn’t really utilize the abilities of the SI. The spellcasting choices don’t provide many options/uses to channel spell, so the signature ability of the SI will likely see little usage. +0.00 points
    • The entry does emphasize the flavor of the SI, aside from missing on the Channel Spell as noted previously. +.25 points
    • Additional: the entry does not meet the single-combat-without-magic RP requirement of the SI. As such, subject to a score deduction of (1.00) points




    Lawrence Curly Andmo – Final Score: 18.00 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 4.50 Points
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    • I love the background introduction…but I must confess I’m having a hard time seeing a Spellsword in there. +.50 points
    • Very interesting feat selections, and wholly unexpected. +1.00 points
    • Likewise for race and class choices. Nothing I expected, or that appeared elsewhere. +1.50 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 4.50 Points
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    • Offensively average in comparison to the other submissions at early levels, and never really gets beyond that point; nice tricks like dual actions help maintain at average despite the lagging spellcasting. Defensively above average, with some nice options available. Utility is above average as well, at all stages of the build. +2.50 points
    • The entry has plenty of options available outside of nova magic powers. +.50 points
    • The addition of the SI is an improvement to the build’s power, and does not provide a glaring departure from existing power potential. +.50 points


    ELEGANCE – 4.50 Points
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    • The entry qualifies for all non SI classes. +2.00 points
    • The entry qualifies for all feats. +.50 points
    • I think your interpretation of Assume Supernatural Ability is a little broad, and could be a problem with a DM. Otherwise, avoids cross setting and questionable rules interpretations. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids multiclass penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 4.50 Points
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    • The entry takes the SI to completion, but enters at a late stage in relation to other submissions. +1.00 points
    • The entry makes solid use of the abilities of the SI, and hi-lights them with the other aspects of the build. +1.50 points
    • The entry builds upon the concept of the SI, albeit at a threat of being overwhelmed by the other aspects. In the end, it works out. +1.00 points





    Balthos of Myr – Final Score: 14.25 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 4.00 Points
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    • The background is interesting, although vague; I can see some fit for the SI. +.75 points
    • The legacy feats were an unexpected choice. +.75 points
    • Class approaches are rather different and unexpected; although the race was common. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 3.00 Points
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    • Offensively average for most of the build; capping at level 7 spells with four attacks is nice. Defensively doesn’t have any significant stand out options; and the reflex in particular is a potentially nasty weakness that remains unaddressed. Utility can’t really be well judged as skills are not presented. +1.00 points
    • The entry does have the combat potential outside spellcasting to avoid reliance on nova powers. +.50 points
    • The addition of the SI does improve the overall power of the build. +.50 points


    ELEGANCE – 3.25 Points
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    • As you haven’t presented skills, you don’t meet the knowledge (history) requirement for Legacy Champion. Otherwise, qualifies for all non-SI classes. +1.00 points
    • As skills are not presented, do not meet the spellcraft requirement for Practiced Spellcaster. Don’t meet either the spellcasting or BAB reqs for Arcane Strike. +0.00 points
    • The entry avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations and setting specific information. +1.00 points
    • You’re a little dip heavy, but manage to avoid multiclass exp penalties. +.25 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 4.00 Points
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    • The entry enters the SI at an early point and takes it to completion promptly. +1.50 points
    • The entry complements the SI and enhances its abilities throughout the build. The signature channel spell is well utilized in particular. +1.50 points
    • The entry emphasizes the concept of the SI, and builds upon it throughout the build. +1.00 points
    • Additional: the entry does not meet the single-combat-without-magic RP requirement of the SI. As such, subject to a score deduction of (1.00) points





    Anh the Houseless – Final Score: 16.75 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 4.25 Points
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    • I like the introduction; not entirely sure I see spellsword in there, but it’s not precluding it from the start. +.75 points
    • Going with a ranged/throw approach in the feats is different. +1.00 points
    • Fighter was the go-to weapon/armor dip, but the rest was unexpected/unused. Race was common. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 2.75 Points
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    • Offensively average early. Master Thrower opens some interesting possibilities, but the lack of spellcasting punch is leaving you behind most of the rest of the competition. At the top end, it’s a bit of a one trick pony offensively with the thrown weapons, in relation to others. Average defense, no significant tricks or weaknesses noted. Utility is average early, weak in the middle and late stages. +1.25 points
    • The build is rather reliant on nova powers, both from spells and the one-shot opener with the Kuo-Toa harpoon. While he can swing a beat stick reasonably well without, he has fewer options than most after that shot. +0.00 points
    • The addition of the SI does increase power in this entry, notably the destructive force of that opening shot. +.50 points


    ELEGANCE – 4.75 Points
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    • The entry qualifies for all non-SI classes taken. +2.00 points
    • The entry qualifies for all feats taken. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids multi-class exp penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points
    • Using the harpoon as a thrown weapon to utilize channel spell effects could be questionable to a DM. I’d personally allow it, but it’s worth a small note. +.75 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 5.00 Points
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    • The entry begins the SI at an early point, and takes it to completion with only a momentary delay. +1.50 points
    • The entry uses the mechanical abilities of the SI as a key component of the build, and integrates them significantly throughout. +1.50 points
    • From a conceptual standpoint, I like your approach. At first I wasn’t sure it would blend well, but I do like how you’ve made it all come together. +1.00 points




    Starshatter – Final Score: 12.50 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 3.50 Points
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    • The background is a little vague and doesn’t really show me much of the SI or how it affects the character. +.25 points
    • A little more of a metamagic bent than most. Several selections were standard, but some were different. +.50 points
    • Paladin was both unexpected and unused. Elves were fairly common, and your approach there has issues that preclude an originality bonus (see Elegance). +1.25 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 2.50 Points
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    • Offensively average early. In the middle and upper tiers, the highly restricted spellcasting (relative to other entries) and lack of significant other alternatives leaves you below average offensively. Defensively above average early, lessens to average once the template abilities become less effective. Reflex is a glaring, and unaddressed, weak point in the character. Utility is below average throughout. +.75 points
    • The SI has the potential to boost power here; but given the spell selections, the impact is lessened. +.25 points
    • The entry avoids nova spell reliance, and has plenty of ability if those are precluded. +.50 points


    ELEGANCE – 4.00 Points
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    • The entry qualifies for all non SI classes taken. +2.00 points
    • The entry qualifies for all feats taken. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations or cross setting material. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids multi class penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points
    • Additional: Unless I’m misreading something, feytouched is a race not a template. So you’re basically stacking two races in feytouched and star elf. (1.00) points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 2.50 Points
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    • The entry enters the SI later than most, but does take it to completion. +1.00 points
    • Mechanically, you’re not making great use of the SI. Your spell list includes very little that can provide significant Channel Spell usage, focusing more in favor of buffs instead. As such, the SI isn’t really shining here. +.50 points
    • Thematically, I like the fit. The holy avenger combo of smite + channel spell is very appealing, and the SI has a nice home here. +1.00 points
    • Additional: You do not meet the RP combat-without-magic requirement for the SI. As such, a deduction is required. (1.00) points





    Drylax – Final Score: 14.75 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 2.75 Points
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    • The background ties in with the SI, and I see how you’re getting there. One suggestion, without meaning offense: this background is a bit too broad. I had to read it several times to make sure I understood everything you had going on, and it distracted from the meat of it. I’d recommend a little more concise of a story. +.75 points
    • Shield feats weren’t expected. Most of the rest was well represented, however. +.50 points
    • Race and class selections were both expected and represented by others. +0.00 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 3.50 Points
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    • Solid offensive power early, as one would expect from a BC wizard. Due to spellcasting, maintains above average offensive firepower throughout. Defensively average early, moves to above average with shields and abjurant champion at later stages. Average utility throughout. +2.25 points
    • The entry is rather reliant on spellcasting, and doesn’t have great alternatives when that isn’t an option or runs out. +0.00 points
    • The SI isn’t really a significant improvement in power, but it kicks in enough with your usage that I can call it maintaining power. +.25 points


    ELEGANCE – 5.00 Points
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    • The entry qualifies for all non-SI classes. +2.00 points
    • The entry qualifies for all feats. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations and cross-setting material. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids multi-classing penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 3.50 Points
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    • The entry takes the SI at a reasonably early point, but fails to complete it. While the last 2 levels of Abjurant Champion are nice, so is the SI’s capstone; and it’s not enough of a difference imo to justify omission. +1.00 points
    • Mechanically you’ve got plenty of spells stacked up, and a nice selection thereof, to power the SI’s signature move. It’s a solid fit. +1.50 points
    • This was the first ‘stereotypical’ entry for the SI that I considered; the wizard/fighter with some Abjurant Champion on top. It’s a solid blend of flavor. +1.00 points
    • Additional: You do not meet the SI’s requirement of victory in single combat without spellcasting. Each example you give in the background includes spellcasting or assistance from another, and as such you don’t meet that requirement. (1.00) points




    Balthazar Naught – Final Score: 10.50 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 2.00 Points
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    • The background is too sparse for me to really glean much about the character; nothing that leads me to think of the SI. +.25 points
    • For the most part, feat selections were well used by others. +0.00 points
    • Sha’ir made a couple of appearances, but the two other PRC dips are worthy of small note as unexpected. Human was, as usual, a go-to race. +.75 points
    • DMM (Persist) is something of a go-to optimization choice. Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment) is rather cheesy as well. +0.00 points


    POWER – 3.00 Points
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    • Offensively strong early and in the middle tier, particularly with the DMM buffing up. Top end comes in at below average, as it has neither level 8 spells nor 4 attacks/round that other entries presented; and no significant alternatives to offset that lack. Defensively average throughout, as even with DMM you don’t have significant turn usages to impact; also reflex is a glaring, unaddressed weakness. Utility is average throughout. +2.00 points
    • The entry is rather reliant on spellcasting nova powers, and could run into issues without them. +0.00 points
    • The SI seems to weaken overall power here. Continuing a turn-undead themed class would be much better with DMM, and the SI isn’t integrated enough to offset that. +0.00 points


    ELEGANCE – 3.00 Points
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    • You don’t qualify for Sacred Exorcist, as you don’t meet the Dismissal/Dispel Evil requirement. Otherwise, qualifies for all non-SI classes. +1.00 points
    • Qualifies for all feats taken. +.50 points
    • Entry avoids multiclass penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points
    • I think you’ve got an potential argument on your hands with Radiant Servant adding spellcasting levels to Sha’ir; while Sha’ir casts some divine spells, it is a arcane spellcasting class explicitly in the description. As such, your approach there is questionable. +0.00 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 2.50 Points
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    • The entry takes the Si at a relatively late point, but does carry it to completion. +1.00 points
    • The SI abilities are present, and can be used in this build; I fear the spell list, more towards buffing and personal use, is less likely to yield significant synergy than other entries do. +1.00 points
    • Conceptually, I don’t feel this is the best fit. It works in the end, but it’s a bit forced. +.50 points
    • Additional: You do not meet the SI’s requirement of victory in single combat without spellcasting. As such, a deduction is warranted. (1.00) points





    Naras, Trickster Vagabond – Final Score: 11.75 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 3.25 Points
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    • Interesting backstory, leads into the SI nicely. +1.00 points
    • Some interesting feat selections that weren’t used by others; notably Einhander and Single Blade Style. The rest were fairly common, however. +.50 points
    • Bladesinger didn’t see other usage; the rest of your selections were widely used. +.50 points
    • The generalist elf approach is a fairly overused optimization suggestion; otherwise, cheese is avoided. +.25 points


    POWER – 3.50 Points
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    • Offense early is below average, taking the early hit to your low level spellcasting levels at their most effective point. By the middle part of the build you’re beginning to recover, and the combination of 4 attacks with 7th level spellcasting (albeit with a limited number of spells/day) brings you up to average. Defensively, you’ve selected some nice enhancements that mesh with your other elements and give you some added depth; average at first, above average in the second half. Utility is average throughout. +2.00 points
    • The entry is fairly reliant on limited pool of spellcasting, but has enough options available through the build to take care of business without it. +.50 points
    • Adding the SI hurts your power here. On the one hand, advancing wizard would provide you nicer spellcasting. On the other, wearing any armor above light takes away your Bladesinger benefits. Nothing you’re getting offsets both those negatives. +0.00 points


    ELEGANCE – 5.00 Points
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    • The entry qualifies for all non-SI classes. +2.00 points
    • The entry qualifies for all feats. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids questionable rules interpretations and cross-setting material. +1.00 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 0.00 Points
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    • Unfortunately you do not qualify for the SI; your BAB is 3 when you take your first level, and Spellsword requires a minimum of 4. As such, I must set your score in this category to 0.




    Onnedad Kairdwen – Final Score: 15.75 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 4.00 Points
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    • Nice introduction, and definitely imparts the feel of the SI. +1.00 points
    • Earth sense/earth spell are interesting, but the rest was well represented elsewhere. +0.25 points
    • Race was common, but the class selections were not. +1.25 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 3.50 Points
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    • Offensive a little below average early, average through the middle of the build, and back to slightly below average at the end compared to other entries that are breaking out more spellcasting depth. Solid defensively, but nothing really stands out in relation to other builds. Above average utility throughout. +2.00 points
    • The entry is a little more reliant on spellcasting nova powers than most, and lasts a sturdy option if they are out of the picture. +0.00 points
    • The SI does help power here; the spellcasting loss is offset by the well-planned channel spell uses. +.50 points


    ELEGANCE – 4.00 Points
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    • The entry qualifies for all non-SI classes. +2.00 points
    • The entry qualifies for all feats taken. +.50 points
    • You’re getting rather questionable with claiming dragon disciple grants you a 9th level spell. I wouldn’t personally read it that way, and I think you’d have a hard time justifying it at most tables. +0.00 points
    • The entry avoids excessive dipping and multi-class penalties. +.50 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 4.25 Points
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    • The entry joins the SI rather later than most; but does take it to completion. +1.00 points
    • The entry makes solid use of the SI abilities, and has a solid complement of spells selected to make use of the SI’s signature ability. +1.50 points
    • The concept fits fairly well; it’s a little schizophrenic, but in the end it comes together. +.75 points




    Naphesche Zarna – Final Score: 8.75 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 3.25 Points
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    • The background is a little to brief for me to really get a feel for the SI in the introduction. +.25 points
    • Feat selections are fairly standard, although the sneak attack chains weren’t utilized by others. +.50 points
    • Interesting mix of classes, and while a couple were used elsewhere I must admit to not expecting something like this. Human was common. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 3.00 Points
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    • Offensively above average in the early stages of the build, with the powerfully built up sneak attack and related functionality. Beginning in the middle stages and on through the end, however, the offense dips precipitously as compared to other builds. Missing out on the 4th iterative attack hurts as well. Defensively average, nothing stands out but no glaring weaknesses either. Utility is strong, albeit with issues on skill points (see Elegance). Once those are backed out as best I can, still appears to be at least average utility and likely slightly above average. +1.50 points
    • The build is not reliant on nova powers, as that is a minimal element of the entry. +.50 points
    • The SI really doesn’t seem to do much to help power here. Your spell selection for the SI’s abilities (assuming Thayan Slayer were legal, see Elegance) aren’t really adding that much. I think you’d be better off sticking with the sneak attack theme and throwing in assassin or something similar. +0.00 points


    ELEGANCE – 2.50 Points
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    • You have significant issues with your build due to skill points usage. While able learner lets you purchase skills for one point each regardless of class or cross class, you are still subject to the cross class skill point cap on ranks. This affects, most notably, appraise – which you are maxing as if it were a class skill in your fighter and barbarian class levels. As such, I am applying a deduction for the mechanical problems. (1.00) points.
    • And because of those problems, most notably with appraise as shown above, you don’t qualify for Thayan Slayer. Otherwise, qualifies for all non-SI classes. +1.00 points
    • Qualifies for all feats taken. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations or cross setting material. +1.00 points
    • You’re very dip heavy with this build. +0.00 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 0.00 Points
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    • Because of the qualification issues with Thayan Slayer, you don’t qualify for the SI. I hate to hit you in both categories for this, but since it really does unravel the whole build I feel I have to. Score set at 0.00






    Amueli R’thaceu – Final Score: 13.75 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 3.50 Points
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    • The introduction is interesting, but I don’t really see the SI at play here. +.50 points
    • Archery feats are different, albeit at a glance appear difficult to work with the SI. The rest was fairly common. +.50 points
    • Death master and arcane archer weren’t expected. Race was common. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 3.50 Points
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    • Offensively a little above average early with the undead, enhanced by Arcane Archer in the middle. The second half of the build has some decent prospects, but can’t crest beyond average compared to other entries. Defensively doesn’t stand out, but no significant weaknesses either. Utility is average at all levels, as compared to other entries. +2.00 points
    • The entry does not rely on nova spellcasting powers, and can provide plenty when spells aren’t available. +.50 points
    • For reasons discussed later (see Elegance) I can’t bring myself to call the SI an enhancement of power. Your main attack I just don’t see working with the channel spell ability, thus you’re losing power. +0.00 points


    ELEGANCE – 4.00 Points
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    • The entry qualifies for all non-SI classes. +2.00 points
    • The entry qualifies for all feats. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids multi-class exp penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points
    • I don’t really buy your argument with the elvencraft longbow. That would allow you to channel spell if you were using it as a quarterstaff (which the bow allows), but doesn’t let you make any arrow you shoot qualify as a melee attack for channel spell. I think you’d have issues getting that to fly at a table. +0.00 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 2.75 Points
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    • The entry enters the SI a bit later than others, but does take it to completion. +1.00 points
    • If we assume your longbow interpretation is accurate…there is some synergy with the mechanical abilities of the SI. Although since you’re ranged, the armor benefits are largely irrelevant as well. +.75 points
    • I don’t think this really brings out the concept of the SI. Between archery, undead raising, and the rest you’ve got it overshadows the SI rather than enhancing it. +0.00 points




    Exavier – Final Score: 9.50 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 2.00 Points
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    • Background is difficult to understand, due to formatting. I don’t really see the SI in here either. +.25 points
    • Feat approach included pretty standard choices in the competition. +0.00 points
    • Rainbow servant wasn’t expected, but the rest of the submission was standard. +.50 points
    • The generalist elf approach is a fairly overused optimization suggestion; otherwise, cheese is avoided. +.25 points


    POWER – 2.50 Points
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    • Above average offensive power early from generalist wizard and rainbow servant. The addition of the SI, however, drains your power significantly as you don’t benefit at all from melee combat. Defensively weak due to lack of ability to use armor, but spellcasting options selected help there. Nice to see insightful reflexes taken to mitigate that poor save, also. Utility is below average at all levels. +1.50 points
    • The entry is highly dependent on spellcasting, and if it is not an option does not have much in the way of alternatives. +0.00 points
    • As noted above, the addition of the SI significantly harms this build. +0.00 points


    ELEGANCE – 5.00 Points
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    • The entry qualifies for all non-SI classes. +2.00 points
    • The entry qualifies for all feats taken. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations and cross setting material. +1.00 points
    • The entry avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 0.00 Points
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    • You do not qualify for the SI, as you do not meet the armor proficiency or weapon proficiency requirements, or the base attack bonus requirement. As such, score set to 0.




    (To be continued)

  18. - Top - End - #438
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Experiment Novem – Final Score: 9.25 Points
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    ORIGINALITY -2.25 Points
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    • Very interesting character concept, but I’m having a hard time seeing the SI in it. +.50 points
    • Feat choices were pretty standard as compared to other entries. +0.00 points
    • Race and class components were fairly standard, although the soul eater dip was different. +.25 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 2.75 Points
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    • Offensively strong early, a little above average. Falls to below average in the middle stages of the build and through the end. Missing out on that last attack by 1 is rough. Defensively average, with a couple of helpful spells but otherwise no significant tricks. Reflex is poor, exacerbated by your flaw; and is not addressed. Utility is average to below average for the competition. +1.50 points
      Note that Nar Demonbinder and Soul Eater are not factored into your power score (see Elegance).
    • The entry is rather reliant on spellcasting for its power; it can’t do much when spellcasting is off, particularly in comparison to other entries. +0.00 points
    • The SI maintains power in this case; there’s enough built in emphasis of channel spell to prevent a decline, but it doesn’t really add overall. +.25 points


    ELEGANCE – 1.25 Points
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    • As summon monster is not listed among your conjurer spells, you do not qualify for Nar Demonbinder. And since you’re relying on the Nar Demonbinder familiar granted alertness to meet your Soul Eater prereq, you don’t qualify for that class either. +0.00 points
    • The entry qualifies for all feats. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids questionable rules interpretations and cross setting material. +1.00 points
    • You are subject to a multiclass exp penalty for almost the entire build. +0.00 points
    • Additional: Usage of a flaw necessitates a penalty to elegance of (1.00) points
    • Additional: I assume Crusader rather than Barbarian is the correct class selection; and there are some other text cases which appear to refer to a previous draft and are superseded. A small deduction is necessitated for the error. (.25 points)


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 3.00 Points
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    • The entry takes the SI later than average, but does take it to completion. +1.00 points
    • The entry does utilize the abilities of the SI, and does make reasonable use of the channel spell ability. +1.50 points
    • The overall synergy is a bit lacking to me. Soul Eater isn’t a great fit, and Nar Demonbinder takes the spotlight away from the SI. +.50 points
    • Additional: You do not meet the SI’s requirement of victory in single combat without spellcasting. As such, a deduction is warranted. (1.00) points






    Giorre, the Crushing Carcass – Final Score: 14.50 Points
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    ORIGINALITY - 3.25 Points
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    • More introduction of the character would tie in to the SI better. +.25 points
    • The vile feats were an interesting approach. +1.00 points
    • Ruathar and Thrall of Orcus didn’t see other usage. Human and Wizard were very common. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions. +.50 points


    POWER – 3.50 Points
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    • Offensively strong early, as pure spellcasters tend to be. Maintains average offensive capability through the middle of the build, but still ends up with fewer attacks and less top end spellcasting than the strongest. Defensively average, no major strengths or weaknesses. Utility is a little less than most throughout, as so much is tied into knowledge. +1.75 points
    • The entry has reasonable options when spellcasting nova abilities are taken out of the picture. +.50 points
    • The SI more maintains power than increases it. With the necromancy, just sticking with that would boost raw power to a greater extent. +.25 points


    ELEGANCE – 4.50 Points
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    • Qualifies for all non-SI classes. +2.00 points
    • Qualifies for all feats. +.50 points
    • The entry avoids multi class penalties and excessive dipping. +.50 points
    • Being a Thrall to Orcus and Dedicated to Atropus at the same time could be an issue for DMs. A small deduction is warranted. +.50 points


    USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT – 3.25 Points
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    • The entry enters the SI rather later than most, but does take it to completion. +1.00 points
    • Synergy is difficult to determine, with spells not presented. The Enervation/Arcane Thesis could make a nasty channel spell punch, but other alternatives are unknown. The potential fit is there, but it could be clearer. +.75 points
    • The SI is somewhat overwhelmed by the necromancy pervading the build. It seems like the other aspect is more key to the concept than is the SI. +.50 points




    And that, as they say, is that.

  19. - Top - End - #439
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    Tim Proctor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Standings After Three Judges
    Entry Place Tim's Ikeren's Rama's Total Average
    Lawrence "Curly" Andmo Gold 17.65 15.5 18 51.15 4.2625
    Onnedad Kairdwen Silver 16.3 15 15.75 47.05 3.92083
    Anh the Houseless Bronze 15.05 15 16.75 46.8 3.9
    Anti the Kinslayer 4th 15.34 15.5 15.5 46.34 3.86167
    Halfdan the Black 5th 15.05 14 16.75 45.8 3.8167
    Amueli R'thaceu 6th 15.92 16 13.75 45.67 3.80583
    Giorre 7th 14.39 15.5 14.5 44.39 3.699167
    Mekihl Krivim tibur Ptahzur 8th 15.72 13.5 12.75 41.97 3.4975
    Subjugator Sarlagiin 9th 14.95 13 13.5 41.45 3.454167
    Starshatter 10th 17.13 11.5 12.5 41.13 3.4275
    Drylax 11th 14.34 12 14.75 41.09 3.424167
    Balthos of Myr 12th 11.73 15 14.25 40.98 3.415
    Aurelius Deadfeather 13th 15.94 12.5 12 40.44 3.37
    Naras 14th 14.17 12 11.75 37.92 3.16
    Naphesche Zarna 15th 14.96 14 8.75 37.71 3.1425
    Balthazar Naught 16th 14.55 12.5 10.5 37.55 3.129167
    Rohlerryn 17th 13.63 14 8.5 36.13 3.01083
    Taishi 18th 13.33 12 8.5 33.83 2.819167
    Experiment "Novem" 19th 10.98 13 9.25 33.23 2.769167
    Exavier 20th 13.75 8 9.5 31.25 2.604167
    Meepo 21st 12.70 9.5 6.25 28.45 2.37083
    Last edited by Tim Proctor; 2014-07-21 at 06:00 PM.
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  20. - Top - End - #440
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Haven't gotten a chance to read through all the scores yet, but I did just want to say thanks for judging, Tim/Rama/Ikeren.
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  21. - Top - End - #441
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    #2-6 are really tight, it's easy to see any of them getting Silver or Bronze.

    We've had one very quantitative judge, one very qualitative judge, one one who was in between. Dysprosium's judging should be interesting to see.

  22. - Top - End - #442
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Am I the very qualitative one? You flatter me.

    2-7 is a range of 2.66 points, 2-6 is a range of just 1.38 points. So Dysprosium could definitely change things up still.

  23. - Top - End - #443
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    On a different note, when I was making my own build for this (which I eventually gave up on), i noticed that one of the PrC prereqs was rather vague: the "defeat a foe" thing. I understand the debate of "through force of arms alone", because that could get complicated, but I also don't see anything indicating a minimum CR for the defeated creature. Is there any reason a character couldn't just squash a cockroach and qualify? I must be missing something, right?


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  24. - Top - End - #444
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Yep. Foe isn't defined. Most 1st level characters, even casters, are going to crit a kobold at level one and kill it with a crossbow or whatever, so it's not really much of a prerequisite.

  25. - Top - End - #445
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Uhm... Very tight competition here.
    And my favourites are climbing up in the chart

    About the killing-without-magic requirement, since this is a RAI contest, one should assume that it is what a average Joe McDM will rule in his game.
    I, for example, would not let you qualify without risking a bit, so either you vanquish a BBEG with your party or a single adversary one vs one (the Kobold fighter by Tim is a very good example)

  26. - Top - End - #446
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    On a different note, when I was making my own build for this (which I eventually gave up on), i noticed that one of the PrC prereqs was rather vague: the "defeat a foe" thing. I understand the debate of "through force of arms alone", because that could get complicated, but I also don't see anything indicating a minimum CR for the defeated creature. Is there any reason a character couldn't just squash a cockroach and qualify? I must be missing something, right?
    Basically I treated it as a backstory requirement. If the entry specified that they beat a foe without magic, they met the req. If they didn't, they were missing a required piece.

    As for the quality of the foe, it is something of a variable. Fortunately no one really put that to the test where I had to make a judgement that the foe was unworthy.

  27. - Top - End - #447
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    Tim Proctor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    There are two aspects to the defeat a foe issue, 1) a RAW elegance qualification which due to the vagueness everyone successfully passed, and 2) a RAI UotSI guage about how well the could defeat a worthy opponent with force of arms alone (simply trading blows). I consider them two separate issues entirely and that's why there isn't an FtQ on anyone even if they did poorly on the RAI aspect. Power was a completely different issue which has a whole other battery of issues for consideration than a RAI test.
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  28. - Top - End - #448
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnno View Post
    Dysprosium's judging should be interesting to see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikeren View Post
    So Dysprosium could definitely change things up still.
    I'm a little more than halfway done with scoring.

    Too early to tell how my scores will change things but I can guarantee one thing: there won't be a tie this round.

  29. - Top - End - #449
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Thanks to Tim, Ikeren, and Rama for judging! I didn't score anywhere near what I wanted, but considering the competition, I'm pretty happy with where I ended up. We'll see if dysprosium's judging changes anything.
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  30. - Top - End - #450
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Brief Outlier Analysis:

    Tim thinks Starshatter is better than Rama or I did.
    Tim likes Balthos of Myr a decent bit less than Rama or I.
    Tim likes Aurelius Deadfeather more than Rama or I.
    Rama thought Naphesche Zarna was substantially worse than Tim or I.
    Rama thought Rohlerryn was substantially worse than Tim or I.
    I liked Novem a good deal bit more than Rama or Tim.
    Tim liked Exavier and Meepo a good bit more than Rama or I.

    For interests sake I have vague intentions of going back and seeing where people judged differently from me.

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