What did Malack do that made Nale hate him so much?

[INoKnowNames]

Remember that Nale decided that Elan needed to die just because Elan wanted to help Roy defeat Xykon before Elan could consider joining up with Nale. Deciding that your own flesh and blood deserves impalement simply for honoring a commitment to a friend and joining you later when you didn't need his help or anything seems pretty friggin' harsh. It seems like Nale inherited his father's predisposition to demand disproportunate vengeance against even the slightest of wrongs. I put my 2 copper pieces that all Malack had to do was make an actual insult toward the little hellspawn, and that'd be enough to warrant murdering his kids.

[dancrilis]

I put my 2 copper pieces that all Malack had to do was make an actual insult toward the little hellspawn, and that'd be enough to warrant murdering his kids.

I would disagree - while Nale had his moral failings sure, but he did not harm those related to his target to enact his revenge (without cause).

Look at the plot with Roy's sister - he had her captured, he had every reason to dislike Roy, he had a creepy stalker that had been interested in her on his pay role etc.
What happened to her - nothing.
She was captured as part of his beef with the Order of the Stick and Elan in particular, as such there was no need to get properly bent out of shape about her (even when she insulted him, and showed him up in relation to the 25 word limit of sending).
Nor did he go back to deal with her later (that we know of).

Had it been Tarquin rather than Nale, Julia may have suffered much much worse.

Or to sum up - Nale likely killed Malack's kids for the exact reason he said, practice.

[INoKnowNames]

I would disagree - while Nale had his moral failings sure, but he did not harm those related to his target to enact his revenge (without cause).

Look at the plot with Roy's sister - he had her captured, he had every reason to dislike Roy, he had a creepy stalker that had been interested in her on his pay role etc.
What happened to her - nothing.
She was captured as part of his beef with the Order of the Stick and Elan in particular, as such there was no need to get properly bent out of shape about her (even when she insulted him, and showed him up in relation to the 25 word limit of sending).
Nor did he go back to deal with her later (that we know of).

Had it been Tarquin rather than Nale, Julia may have suffered much much worse.

Or to sum up - Nale likely killed Malack's kids for the exact reason he said, practice.

Roy didn't personally insult Nale, though. By the time Roy had reason to hate Nale, Nale had already nearly killed Elan and destroyed the Order of the Stick. Roy's fighting back was natural at that point. Also, creepy stalker? Pompey was a fellow highschool student, and Julia was the Queen Bitch of the school; it wasn't capturing Hermionie Granger and giving her to that werewolf pedorapist.

His otherwise polite treatment of her in comparison to how his father might do things just helps to show how significantly worse his father is, but let us not also forget that during that whole "Cliffport" fiasco, Nale was not focused on Roy at all, but still Elan. The entirety of the plan was to make his revenge against Elan as painful as possible, and he had little reason to deviate from his plans. I feel like Roy would have stuck around had Nale actually let something terrible happen to his sister, which would have given Elan more time to help reveal Nale's deception, which would have ruined Nale's plan, which would have messed up the sequencing of the plot by a bit (heck, Tarquinn wouldn't have even known about the gates, and Elan and friends would have had more time to head straight to the gate unabated, and then it might not have been destroyed, and then they'd have to fight Xykon while at the gate).

He may have killed his kids as practice, and my original claim might have been a bit too broad, but Nale doesn't take to having his pride directly insulted, particularly against anyone related to the father he hates so much, or anyone related to that father, be it friends or family. So all Malack had to do was piss him off, and that'd still be enough for Nale to hate him. Whatever Nale's reasons for killing Malack's kids aside, Nale probably didn't need much motivation, the sociopath.

Heck, Celia literally did nothing to Nale; it doesn't seem like he even met her in person. Yet he saw fit to have his drow petrify her just because she'd be able to resist the magic of the talisman he wanted.

[Cizak]

Am I the only one who thinks Nale never "found out" Malack was a vampire? It seems like the kind of thing that would be talked about normally within the Vector Legion, sort of like if you grow up with a parent's friend who's diabetic.
"Come on Nale, let's go eat our dinner while Uncle Malack gets his at the slave pits, okay?"

[INoKnowNames]

Am I the only one who thinks Nale never "found out" Malack was a vampire? It seems like the kind of thing that would be talked about normally within the Vector Legion, sort of like if you grow up with a parent's friend who's diabetic.
"Come on Nale, let's go eat our dinner while Uncle Malack gets his at the slave pits, okay?"

Yeah, it probably was secret only to the audience, the order, and those not "in" on the empire. It was probably a given to everyone else who worked with them properly.

[rodneyAnonymous]

I also got the impression it was personal, something Malack specifically did.

[Killer Angel]

I also got the impression it was personal, something Malack specifically did.

Nale planned the killing for his entire life (while doing other thngs, of course). I'm pretty sure it was personal

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I have a hard time imagining "Something seriously horrible, because Nale was laughably petty."

Ok, that's not true, I just have a hard time not laughing at the idea.

"Malack probably killed a person and made Nale bury the body or something. That's totally the kind of thing Nale would get mad at him for."

I find that combination to be fairly unlikely, but you are right that it is down right hilarious.

[Keltest]

I find that combination to be fairly unlikely, but you are right that it is down right hilarious.

Sadly, after thinking about it a bit, I can totally see that specific example happening. That really is the kind of thing Nale would get mad at someone over. He's far too important to hide the body!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Sadly, after thinking about it a bit, I can totally see that specific example happening. That really is the kind of thing Nale would get mad at someone over. He's far too important to hide the body!

I don't think he's that petty. Like I said, it would be funny if it was the case, but probably too funny to take seriously.

[warrl]

Yeah, it probably was secret only to the audience, the order, and those not "in" on the empire. It was probably a given to everyone else who worked with them properly.

Expecting small children to keep a secret is unwise.

[Vinyadan]

Quasi-imagined slights.

The wish of self-realization before his father, who likes a vampire better than him.

A father against whom he rebelled, and whom Malak helped.

So, I think it's all due to very complicated daddy issues, Tarquin's inability to show love to his child beyond his usual masquerade brought the child to hate Tarquin's best friend and kill his children, preparing for the time to murder him.

The fact that Malak also was his teacher put Nale in his power. That must have made the situation even worse for him. We don't know if Malak was a cruel teacher (somehow, I doubt it), but being forced to being grown up by the dude you want to substitute as Dad's BFF and Guy He's Proud Of and To Whom He Talks About Grown-Up Things must have been pretty hard for him, especially if his disposition staid the same since he was a child.

So, in the end, I think it mostly was Tarquin's fault. Or, I'm sure Tarquin had an horrible effect on his child. I'm not sure about how the undead monstrosity handled him. It could have been unspeakable horror or a rather "human" relationship, like he was trying to build with Durkon.

Or Nale hates him because he acted like someone who loved his children, while his own father couldn't go beyond vain showboating.

[Mando Knight]

Nale planned the killing for his entire life (while doing other thngs, of course). I'm pretty sure it was personal

Some personal or imagined slight, like implying that a centuries-old cleric could DARE be more intelligent and competent than Nale.

Nale has a massive ego, and his father is extremely petty. It isn't much of a jump to assume that Nale is similarly petty and vile.

[illyahr]

Quasi-imagined slights.

The wish of self-realization before his father, who likes a vampire better than him.

A father against whom he rebelled, and whom Malak helped.

So, I think it's all due to very complicated daddy issues, Tarquin's inability to show love to his child beyond his usual masquerade brought the child to hate Tarquin's best friend and kill his children, preparing for the time to murder him.

The fact that Malak also was his teacher put Nale in his power. That must have made the situation even worse for him. We don't know if Malak was a cruel teacher (somehow, I doubt it), but being forced to being grown up by the dude you want to substitute as Dad's BFF and Guy He's Proud Of and To Whom He Talks About Grown-Up Things must have been pretty hard for him, especially if his disposition staid the same since he was a child.

So, in the end, I think it mostly was Tarquin's fault. Or, I'm sure Tarquin had an horrible effect on his child. I'm not sure about how the undead monstrosity handled him. It could have been unspeakable horror or a rather "human" relationship, like he was trying to build with Durkon.

Or Nale hates him because he acted like someone who loved his children, while his own father couldn't go beyond vain showboating.

I actually like this one. He hates Malak because Tarquin puts him above Nale. He hates Tarquin because he doesn't give him any credit. He plans to kill Malak to make his father recognize his worth, but rebels against his father to prove to himself that he is greater than Tarquin. The sad thing is, this is all done in the vein of "Am I good enough now?" sort of tone that gives you the feels.

[ORione]

Expecting small children to keep a secret is unwise.

And Tarquin is renowned for his wisdom.

[Keltest]

And Tarquin is renowned for his wisdom.

at the very least, hes genre savvy enough to know that the children ALWAYS spill the beans.

[Gift Jeraff]

I was under the impression that Malack's vampirism wasn't even really a secret. The OOTS didn't know because they are ignorant of the undead.

[RadagastTheBrow]

One day, Tarquin threw Nale a birthday party. It was to be a feast, celebrating how Nale was at least a year mature for his age, and worth four of these ten-year-Nales. The feast was going to have a cake for each year of Nale's maturity and worth. However, due to his "dietary restrictions," Malack had the cakes infused with human blood. Malack tainted forty cakes. 40 cakes. As many as four tens.

And that's terrible.

[orrion]

Some readers pointed out that Nale being 9 years old would've been close to Miron's 12-year old favor for Tarquin.

That's "Tarquin's 12-year old favor for Miron." Tarquin did the original favor, not Miron.

[Gift Jeraff]

Another thought occurs: While witnessing Malack feeding is bound to scar any child, I don't see why adult Nale would consciously hate that memory unless it was someone he liked. He identifies with that side of Evil ("We should get like nine months of evil happiness by eating your heart").

Maybe at nine years old, Tarquin took him aside and told him the "family business," including that Malack will eventually inherit everything. Even if Malack would have let Nale take center stage after the other 5 die and before he dies, his reign would have still been a footnote to Malack's eternal necrocracy.

That's "Tarquin's 12-year old favor for Miron." Tarquin did the original favor, not Miron.

I typed it both ways and they both made sense to me, depending on how you read it.

[Terrador]

I was always under the impression that Nale disliked Malack, who is easily disagreeable, certainly Evil, and probably (not sure if there's been explicit evidence) spent a lot of time teaching him, and Lord knows teaching Nale is... not a good idea. Nale, being a vile and despicable waste of a human being, took what should have been a fairly serious irritance and inflated it to murder-desire.

So, TL;DR Malack is now Elan. LET THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES BEGIN

[orrion]

I typed it both ways and they both made sense to me, depending on how you read it.

I suppose. The point, though, is that it doesn't really make sense to me for Miron to owe Tarquin a favor for something that happened then. If Nale were involved in that I would expect Tarquin to be the one who owed the favor to Miron for his saving Nale or keeping something secret or some other possibility. I can't think of a scenario where Miron would owe a favor.

[Nilehus]

I have a hard time imagining "Something seriously horrible, because Nale was laughably petty."

Ok, that's not true, I just have a hard time not laughing at the idea.

"Malack probably killed a person and made Nale bury the body or something. That's totally the kind of thing Nale would get mad at him for."

I can see it now...

Spoiler: Malack and Nale's Secret Origin

Show

Scene: Hallway outside Malack's room. Night.

Malack: -sigh- Finally away from the boors... Now hopefully I can complete that spell to hasten the siri- Oh. Nale left his dog here.

Malack pushes the dog away with his tail. 9 year old Nale walks around the corner just as Malack pushes the dog.

Nale: MALACK! Leave my puppy ALONE!

Nale attacks Malack futilely, eventually attempting to use his dog as an improvised weapon. The dog perishes quickly. Nale falls to his knees, holding his dog and sobbing.

Nale: You monster... You killed Rayray! I will never forgive you!

Nale runs into the night with his dog and a shovel. Malack looks after him, completely clueless as to what just happened.

End Scene.

No idea why that came to mind, but I cannot take the grudge seriously anymore...

[Knaight]

Roy didn't personally insult Nale, though. By the time Roy had reason to hate Nale, Nale had already nearly killed Elan and destroyed the Order of the Stick. Roy's fighting back was natural at that point. Also, creepy stalker? Pompey was a fellow highschool student, and Julia was the Queen Bitch of the school; it wasn't capturing Hermionie Granger and giving her to that werewolf pedorapist.

Pompey was a fellow student, who had made a habit of asking Julia out repeatedly despite her saying no, who was also involved in kidnapping her. I'm reasonably sure that counts as creepy stalker material - kidnapping is pretty unambiguous here.

[Cavenskull]

granted, although I am going to be extremely disappointed with Rich if he goes beyond that one shot joke about the goblin with the good tasting gouda-blood, and turns different flavors into a whole thing vampires do.

Yeah, it reminds me of this stupid thing I saw involving creatures that ate flesh. For some reason it wasn't enough that the lore established they ate the flesh of other creatures. They also had different preferences as to what creature the flesh came from and what part of the creature the flesh came from. In the more extreme cases, the flesh-eating creatures not only had preferences based on the diets of the creatures they were preying on, but even took into consideration the living conditions of their prey. Talk about turning flavor preferences up to 11! I mean jeez, just eat something. I don't care if it's a breast from a free-range chicken or a pork chop from a corn-fed pig. Get rid of your individuality and just eat plain old flesh! I swear, someone put way too much detail into the bestiary entry for humans.

[INoKnowNames]

Pompey was a fellow student, who had made a habit of asking Julia out repeatedly despite her saying no, who was also involved in kidnapping her. I'm reasonably sure that counts as creepy stalker material - kidnapping is pretty unambiguous here.

She was the most popular student at school, and he was the nerdy dweebenheimer. He's no more creepy than Neil Goldman from Family Guy (at least in the early years, when all the characters weren't made 10 times worse than they need to be). Heck, someone asking her out once a week for three semesters doesn't even count as narrowing it down in her book.

Kidnapping, I won't argue, since he was helping Nale by watching her. But creepy stalker, I think not. I know guys that have done much worse.

[Quild]

That's "Tarquin's 12-year old favor for Miron." Tarquin did the original favor, not Miron.

I think that this favor from Tarquin may be him to close eyes on something that occured. Maybe to spare Miron or more likely to spare someone else.

Also, it occurred something like 8 years after they put in place their "two-man con". Maybe Tarquin helped Miron to preserve and empire or to get out of a nasty situation. An accident in the scheme resulting of a fight between nations that ended badly? Maybe because of Malack? (+ SPD? Maybe Nale hated SPD as well)

I don't believe it was because Nale was dominated or because he had to bury Malack's leftovers. Nale had no trouble dominating someone else or killing needlessly, doesn't seem to match.

[Kish]

She was the most popular student at school, and he was the nerdy dweebenheimer. He's no more creepy than Neil Goldman from Family Guy (at least in the early years, when all the characters weren't made 10 times worse than they need to be). Heck, someone asking her out once a week for three semesters doesn't even count as narrowing it down in her book.

Kidnapping, I won't argue, since he was helping Nale by watching her. But creepy stalker, I think not. I know guys that have done much worse.

Dude, if you know anyone who's done equal to or worse than participating in kidnapping someone s/he was fixated on, that person is a creepy stalker, among other negative things.

[Keltest]

Dude, if you know anyone who's done equal to or worse than participating in kidnapping someone s/he was fixated on, that person is a creepy stalker, among other negative things.

Im pretty sure he was talking about worse than the fixating on the popular girl at school rather than the kidnapping part.

[Knaight]

Im pretty sure he was talking about worse than the fixating on the popular girl at school rather than the kidnapping part.

Probably. That said, the kidnapping part is really a pretty integral part of the creepy stalker bit. Following Julia around repeatedly asking her out is intrusive, and it already does constitute stalking, but it's clearly something that Julia is used to and doesn't particularly worry about. Once kidnapping gets thrown in, the creepy stalker line is blown right past.