Dark Souls III: Witty Title Pending

[Rodin]

If you're talking Dark Souls 1, Parrying is super duper important... Against Black Knights and Silver Knights. Who have attacks that telegraph pretty well and have pretty big parry windows, for the most part, but otherwise do huge damage and don't give you much time between attacks to counterattack with. Trying to do Anor Londo without parrying is a great way to get very frustrated. It'll take a bit of practice, but I definitely recommend learning to parry these guys.

Otherwise, there are definitely some enemies that parrying helps against. Man-serpents, those demon guys in the Demon Ruins, the crystal dudes in the Duke's Archives, a couple of bosses with parryable attacks (of which the final boss is the most notable), but nowhere that it's so much better than any other tactic that you really need it.

Against most of those guys backstabbing is actually a better strat - it's both easier and safer. Any of the Black/Silver knights that use a one-handed weapon are much easier if you just block their attacks and wait for them to leave themselves open for a backstab. The big exception is the Man-Serpents, who both tend to come at you in groups and also are often in really cramped spaces where you can't circle around behind.

When I first ran into the second black knight on the tower between the rats and the giant pig, this was pretty much me:

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The other big exception is this guy, who laughs at your puny shield and has like a 270 degree swing on some of his attacks. Since I forgot all about parrying, he curbstomped me repeatedly until I finally managed to land a backstab.

I think most people Grandpa Simpson that guy on their first playthrough :D

[DaedalusMkV]

Against most of those guys backstabbing is actually a better strat - it's both easier and safer. Any of the Black/Silver knights that use a one-handed weapon are much easier if you just block their attacks and wait for them to leave themselves open for a backstab. The big exception is the Man-Serpents, who both tend to come at you in groups and also are often in really cramped spaces where you can't circle around behind.



The other big exception is this guy, who laughs at your puny shield and has like a 270 degree swing on some of his attacks. Since I forgot all about parrying, he curbstomped me repeatedly until I finally managed to land a backstab.

I think most people Grandpa Simpson that guy on their first playthrough :D

Safer? How do you figure? Everyone I listed except the crystal dudes can easily be parried every single damn time with a modicum of practice (and knowing not to parry the Man-serpents' unparryable attack), while backstabbing is always at the mercy of dodgy hitboxes and is rarely safe when there are multiple enemies around. Backstabbing Black and Silver Knights is hard, parrying them is hilariously easy. Yeah, it takes more practice, but once you've got it down there's no reason to ever try anything else.

And yeah, that greatsword-wielding Black Knight is kind of a nightmare when you first run into him, and good luck practicing parries on a guy who probably kills you in 2 hits at best and attacks quickly. Once you know how to parry him he's pretty easy even at low levels, but I still wouldn't recommend fighting him until far later in the game and it's probably easier for new players to take him out with a greatshield and a poking weapon regardless. I don't know how much poise he has, but I do remember him taking a hit with the Greatclub without flinching, which means that chain-stunning him isn't even a valid tactic.

[Rodin]

Safer? How do you figure? Everyone I listed except the crystal dudes can easily be parried every single damn time with a modicum of practice (and knowing not to parry the Man-serpents' unparryable attack), while backstabbing is always at the mercy of dodgy hitboxes and is rarely safe when there are multiple enemies around. Backstabbing Black and Silver Knights is hard, parrying them is hilariously easy. Yeah, it takes more practice, but once you've got it down there's no reason to ever try anything else.

If you have a decent shield, a black knight should never be able to get through your defense while you are not attacking. Ergo, the absolute safest (and slowest) way to take one down is to block until the knight is out of stamina, then hit them a single time and bring your shield back up. Wait until they're open again, and repeat.

To backstab, you simply follow the same strategy but circle around him. If you miss the backstab, well, you just stabbed him a single time like you normally would. Shield back up and continue on as normal without getting it.

If you miss your parry, you're getting his sword in your face. Parrying is the most skillful way of taking them down, but it is not the safest.

The same goes for all the other enemies apart from the Man-Serpents and enemies that wield two-handed weapons that you cannot simply block. The crystal guys I will admit I don't know about parrying them because I've flat out never bothered - they're only as difficult as basic sword-and-shield hollows in the first place, so I just fight them conventionally. Greater numbers means greater penalties if you miss your parry as well, so I always tend to just fight by blocking their initial attack, getting a hit or two in, then backing off to stop from getting surrounded.

[Yora]

After having rung the first bell and having reached Toothy McTeeth and the Moon Butterfly, I have to say this game is not really winning me over as much as Demon's Souls did.

The graphics are a bit prettier and many of the small annoyances from Demon's Souls are gone (like lowered HP when undead or 10 minute walks from respawn points to boss arenas), but I really have no idea what I am supposed to do. Fighting monsters and finding new bonfires, but what for? What is my goal? What's the destination? In Demon's Souls you try to reach the five great demons and get their souls so that you can defeat the über-demon.
In Dark Souls I have to ring two bells that are somewhere around.

Also, except for the Moon Butterfly, the bosses have all been rather boring so far.

I really feel like I am missing something really important with this game.

[TechnOkami]

You are missing something.

It hasn't been explained yet.

[Yora]

Will it get introduced soon? I am at the toothy dragon and the giant butterfly right now. I also can take the elevator to New Lando or the tunnel to the Catacombs, but the enemies there seem both very tough right now.

[TechnOkami]

I believe, if I am not mistaken, that you get the next segment of thearbitrary story from Mr. Toothmonster after ringing the second Bell of Awakening and opening up the path to Sen's Fortress.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Yes you do get to the "important" part of the story by ringing the second bell of awakening, but in order to get to it, you have to go through blightown (you get a key from toothy dragon that unlock the next area, bit of advice stack up on blooming purple moss, you will need it).

[Yora]

I'll focus on getting past the dragon for now, then. Maybe it picks up for me from there.

[BladeofObliviom]

Will it get introduced soon? I am at the toothy dragon and the giant butterfly right now. I also can take the elevator to New Lando or the tunnel to the Catacombs, but the enemies there seem both very tough right now.

New Londo and the Catacombs are probably out of reach if you haven't beat Moonlight Butterfly yet. (Both of these can be ignored until the last leg of the plot.)


That said, if you're at the Gaping Dragon fight, you really only have 1 more dungeon (Blighttown/Quelaag's Domain) before you can move on.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[Yora]

Okay, that was weird. I've tried Doctor Teeth probably ten times, each time making only a tiny dent in his health before being killed. And then a minute or so into another try, bam! No more trouble at all. Complete cakewalk. Even though I went out of estus because I got too cocky towards the end.

What all the bosses so far have taught me: Always go for the butt.

[Zevox]

You are missing something.

It hasn't been explained yet.

It never gets explained. You're given another apparently-arbitrary goal to go for - though after Anor Londo, not after ringing the second bell - but never a reason to do it other than the lack of anything else to do if you want to play the game at all.

[TechnOkami]

It never gets explained. You're given another apparently-arbitrary goal to go for - though after Anor Londo, not after ringing the second bell - but never a reason to do it other than the lack of anything else to do if you want to play the game at all.

ARBITRARY GOALS HO! small white text just to be sure

[NEO|Phyte]

It never gets explained. You're given another apparently-arbitrary goal to go for - though after Anor Londo, not after ringing the second bell - but never a reason to do it other than the lack of anything else to do if you want to play the game at all.

It doesn't get fully explained because I'm not sure anyone in-universe actually KNOWS all the details to fully explain it, but the why is laid out reasonably clearly.

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Ringing the bells is basically 'hey this old prophecy says do this', but once you meet Frampt, unless I'm misremembering the sequence, he's all 'hey someone needs to link the First Flame so that the Age of Fire doesn't end yet, go to Anor Londo and get the lordvessel'. It could well be that the ultimate goal isn't spelled out until you actually GET the lordvessel, it's been a while. Or for a more general why do this, without goals, what keeps you from going hollow?

And of course Kaath offers another path, but going off a 'standard' progression, most players will literally never meet him, because odds are they've placed the lordvessel on Frampt's behalf before starting in on the lord souls.

[Zevox]

It doesn't get fully explained because I'm not sure anyone in-universe actually KNOWS all the details to fully explain it, but the why is laid out reasonably clearly.

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Ringing the bells is basically 'hey this old prophecy says do this', but once you meet Frampt, unless I'm misremembering the sequence, he's all 'hey someone needs to link the First Flame so that the Age of Fire doesn't end yet, go to Anor Londo and get the lordvessel'. It could well be that the ultimate goal isn't spelled out until you actually GET the lordvessel, it's been a while. Or for a more general why do this, without goals, what keeps you from going hollow?

And of course Kaath offers another path, but going off a 'standard' progression, most players will literally never meet him, because odds are they've placed the lordvessel on Frampt's behalf before starting in on the lord souls.

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Even once you have the Lordvessel, what the First Flame is, what the "Age of Fire" is, or why either is in any way important are never indicated. The whole thing is one big question mark. You're told very vaguely what to do next, but never given a good idea of what will happen when you do, neither when you're ringing the bells nor when you're gathering the great souls, and certainly never given a single reason why you would want to do any of those things.

[Dusk Eclipse]

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Even once you have the Lordvessel, what the First Flame is, what the "Age of Fire" is, or why either is in any way important are never indicated. The whole thing is one big question mark. You're told very vaguely what to do next, but never given a good idea of what will happen when you do, neither when you're ringing the bells nor when you're gathering the great souls, and certainly never given a single reason why you would want to do any of those things.

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The thing is that that ambiguity and lack of a concrete answer to questions is a really big draw for a lot of peoples, just type Dark Souls Lore in youtube and you will get thousands of hits. Anyway trying to find out why you need to ring the bells is as good as a reason as any. The point of the Souls' series is about finding your own personal answer. And I don't recall where it is stated, but the player character does all that crap in order to find a way to stop the curse of undead.

[NEO|Phyte]

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Even once you have the Lordvessel, what the First Flame is, what the "Age of Fire" is, or why either is in any way important are never indicated. The whole thing is one big question mark. You're told very vaguely what to do next, but never given a good idea of what will happen when you do, neither when you're ringing the bells nor when you're gathering the great souls, and certainly never given a single reason why you would want to do any of those things.

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Dunno about ingame, but the intro narration gives a general rundown of the First Flame and the Age of Fire at least, with heavy implications that the age of fire beginning to fade is tied to the appearance of the Darksign.

Also, to borrow an internet meme, dark souls lore.

[Zevox]

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The thing is that that ambiguity and lack of a concrete answer to questions is a really big draw for a lot of peoples, just type Dark Souls Lore in youtube and you will get thousands of hits. Anyway trying to find out why you need to ring the bells is as good as a reason as any. The point of the Souls' series is about finding your own personal answer. And I don't recall where it is stated, but the player character does all that crap in order to find a way to stop the curse of undead.

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Yes, I've heard that before. Personally, I think it's ridiculous, and just results in a weak non-story that's impossible to care about. And it's fine that you disagree and all, but I wanted to give the dissenting opinion here, given that based on that initial post complaining about the lack of clear motivation compared to Demon's Souls' story (which I haven't played, but does sound significantly better than Dark Souls' in this area to me based on what I've been told of it), I suspect that Yora's taste in the matter may be more along the lines of mine.

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Dunno about ingame, but the intro narration gives a general rundown of the First Flame and the Age of Fire at least, with heavy implications that the age of fire beginning to fade is tied to the appearance of the Darksign.

Also, to borrow an internet meme, dark souls lore.

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The opening narration gives a bit of history lesson that name-drops some of the NPCs you later kill, but does nothing to tell me what those things are or why they're important.

[Yora]

And I can immediately see why everyone hates Blighttown.

How is this possible? Which of the developers looked at it and thought "Yeah, this is good. We can ship this"? It's the most broken thing I've ever seen on a console. And this isn't even a bad PC port. It was a console exclusive, using an engine that was build specifically for the PS3. And which worked in Demon's Souls.
The fire effects in lower Undead Burg and from the Bell Gargoyles was bad, but this is attrocious.

[NEO|Phyte]

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The opening narration gives a bit of history lesson that name-drops some of the NPCs you later kill, but does nothing to tell me what those things are or why they're important.

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Uh.

One would think that it is singularly obvious why the first flame, from which all things nondragon/archtree sprung, is important.

But yeah, Dark Souls doesn't really sit you down and give you a lesson on why you should care. It just opens with 'hey you're undead, there's this prophesy that revolves around undead, maybe look into that I guess?' and lets you run around after that. It's fairly possible to completely miss Frampt after getting the second bell, if you watch the gate opening cutscene and go 'oh hey I remember that gate, let's go!' and fail to explore Firelink after taking the shortcut back.

[Rodin]

And I can immediately see why everyone hates Blighttown.

How is this possible? Which of the developers looked at it and thought "Yeah, this is good. We can ship this"? It's the most broken thing I've ever seen on a console. And this isn't even a bad PC port. It was a console exclusive, using an engine that was build specifically for the PS3. And which worked in Demon's Souls.
The fire effects in lower Undead Burg and from the Bell Gargoyles was bad, but this is attrocious.

I don't think most people hate Blighttown because of the graphics, but more because it is a horrible, horrible area filled with narrow ledges and poison.

Fortunately, the trend for the poison areas seems to be on an improving curve. The Valley of Defilement in Demon's Souls was Blighttown on steroids. The Gutter in DSII was annoying as heck, but not that terribly difficult (and most importantly, pretty short unless you were fully exploring for the loot). And by Bloodborne, the Forbidden Woods were downright easy and the other poison area (Nightmare Frontier) was entirely optional.

[GloatingSwine]

I don't think most people hate Blighttown because of the graphics, but more because it is a horrible, horrible area filled with narrow ledges and poison.

Fortunately, the trend for the poison areas seems to be on an improving curve. The Valley of Defilement in Demon's Souls was Blighttown on steroids. The Gutter in DSII was annoying as heck, but not that terribly difficult (and most importantly, pretty short unless you were fully exploring for the loot). And by Bloodborne, the Forbidden Woods were downright easy and the other poison area (Nightmare Frontier) was entirely optional.

I dunno, the fact that Blighttown tanks your framerate into the floor is a big contributor.

That and all the Toxic enemies.

Blighttown is worse than Valley of Defilement. Valley has the giant defiled ones which are a pain, but nothing toxic at least.

[TechnOkami]

For me it was the combination of terribad framerates and the absolutely stupid and frustrating mechanic that is Toxic, not to even mention the poison lake, the fat mosquitos, or suddenly dogs.

Blighttown is the reason I take the key as my starting gift.

[NEO|Phyte]

Blighttown is the reason I take the key as my starting gift.

The bridge drake is the reason I take the key as my starting gift.

[Yora]

I love Valley of Defilement. My favorite section of the game after the prison. When I first reached Blighttown I was actually quite happy to get more of that.
Wasn't actually that hard, I think. Once I understood how things work there, I got to the second Bonfire at the Swamp at my second attempt. It's just really quite slow.

I now got the shortcut to the Fire Shrine, but right now I am really unsure if I want to actually keep playing it. Playing more Demon's Souls instead with different classes seems a lot more inviting right now.
I have not read anything indicating that the game would step up at any point in the future.

[Zevox]

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Uh.

One would think that it is singularly obvious why the first flame, from which all things nondragon/archtree sprung, is important.

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Maybe if the game ever once indicated that. But it does not. Hell, I've looked through fan wikis looking for an actual explanation of what the hell the thing is and why it's important, and none of them even have it. It's simply completely unexplained, and it's the damn macguffin.

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But yeah, Dark Souls doesn't really sit you down and give you a lesson on why you should care. It just opens with 'hey you're undead, there's this prophesy that revolves around undead, maybe look into that I guess?' and lets you run around after that. It's fairly possible to completely miss Frampt after getting the second bell, if you watch the gate opening cutscene and go 'oh hey I remember that gate, let's go!' and fail to explore Firelink after taking the shortcut back.

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Honestly, even if you don't miss Frampt, it doesn't really matter. He's just as cryptic and ultimately useless as every other tiny mention of anything that might be a story they bothered to put into the game.

Yeah, I like the game for the gameplay, but I have nothing good to say about the writing, sorry.

[chainer1216]

So, Dark Souls 3.

Yesterday the release date was leaked, April 12, 2016, as were some details about the preorder bonus's, there are two tiers, both come with metal game cases, cloth world map, iron on patches, game soundtrack and statues, the more expensive one comes with a big statue of the lord of cinder(not gwyn) and the less expensive one has a slightly smaller statue of the red knights.

In other news a couple weeks ago they did a stress test of the servers and allowed people to play a bit with a small area, things of note was that spells use a manabar now and there's an ash estus flask that restores mana, spells have secondary ability with with R2 usually its just a longer cast time +higher numbers thing but in the case of lightning spear it gave you some kind of buff.

[TechnOkami]

I watched a streamer I follow run around in the stress test, and there's a few more things I can mention.

They made casting more combat friendly, which is to say that if you are casting a lightning spear, you will pivot where you stand to hit the enemy due to changes with the targeting system. They also changed how armor works, making it more akin to how armor worked in Demon's Souls with Hyperarmor.

I'll be frank, I have no idea how to describe Hyperarmor or pretend to have any understanding of how it differs from armor in Dark Souls 1 and 2.

[chainer1216]

From my, admittedly limited, understanding of fighting games hyper armor is when your character cannot be staggered during certain attack animations.

A quick googleing say that demon souls and DS1 had hyper armor but that it was replaced with the poise system in DS2.

[TechnOkami]

Weeeeeeeeeeel they're bringing it back.

Looks like I need to play Demon's Souls to see what it's all about and not come into the new game completely unprepared.