What was your worst DM ever? This thread is impervious - roll to disbelieve!

[AMFV]

From the story I'm reading, it started not because the DM was intentionally changing things up, but because the DM didn't actually know the rules, and was making stuff up, then got upset when the players were confused and started questioning him. This is different from understanding the system, and changing things to intentionally mix it up.

Good on him for at least making it consistent, but if this little snapshot is typical of his DM'ing, I'm not at all surprised the players eventually left.

Well he changed the rules, whether he had understood them originally becomes less relevant later on, because they had changed after that point.

[illyahr]

They can still hack at it, thereby damaging it to the point where the wizard can walk up to it and kill it with a torch. The difference between fighting a troll and fighting anything else is just that someone else will have to deal the killing blow. No big deal.

Nope. Nonlethal damage builds up. Lethal damage is what reduces HP. All the melee-types can do is run up the nonlethal damage until it exceeds the troll's current HP, at which point it falls unconscious. The wizard would still have to reduce it's current HP to lethal levels to kill it. All melee-types are in a fight with a troll is a way to keep it unconscious until someone with fire or acid can whittle away it's HP.

[Inevitability]

Nope. Nonlethal damage builds up. Lethal damage is what reduces HP. All the melee-types can do is run up the nonlethal damage until it exceeds the troll's current HP, at which point it falls unconscious. The wizard would still have to reduce it's current HP to lethal levels to kill it. All melee-types are in a fight with a troll is a way to keep it unconscious until someone with fire or acid can whittle away it's HP.

Er... No. The rules say:

A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace.

So basically, once Trolly McTroll is taken down by the fighter, all it takes is a little torch to kill him.

[Anxe]

Nope. Nonlethal damage builds up. Lethal damage is what reduces HP. All the melee-types can do is run up the nonlethal damage until it exceeds the troll's current HP, at which point it falls unconscious. The wizard would still have to reduce it's current HP to lethal levels to kill it. All melee-types are in a fight with a troll is a way to keep it unconscious until someone with fire or acid can whittle away it's HP.

My group runs with the rule that any weapon can coup de grace a troll. Not sure if that's RAW or not. We figured the troll wouldn't regenerate much with its head chopped off though.

[Mikeavelli]

Nope. Nonlethal damage builds up. Lethal damage is what reduces HP. All the melee-types can do is run up the nonlethal damage until it exceeds the troll's current HP, at which point it falls unconscious. The wizard would still have to reduce it's current HP to lethal levels to kill it. All melee-types are in a fight with a troll is a way to keep it unconscious until someone with fire or acid can whittle away it's HP.

Nope

Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away. The creature’s description includes the details. A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.

Just takes one full-round action, you don't have to whittle its hp away.

[AMFV]

Nope



Just takes one full-round action, you don't have to whittle its hp away.

You can't coup de grace with a spell.. Under most circumstances

[icefractal]

Doesn't really matter. Once the troll is unconscious, actually killing it is a formality, as long as anyone has any source of fire/acid.

[jaydubs]

Doesn't really matter. Once the troll is unconscious, actually killing it is a formality, as long as anyone has any source of fire/acid.

Worst case scenario, you could probably just induce some vomiting all over the unconscious troll.

[AMFV]

Doesn't really matter. Once the troll is unconscious, actually killing it is a formality, as long as anyone has any source of fire/acid.

Not if it can regenerate before that point or has back up. If all you've got is acid splash and it's got a lot of HD you might still have to fight it a few times, or it might get back up. Or it could even fake it's death and then come back after. I mean Trolls have huge con modifiers they can hold their breath a long time.

[Mikeavelli]

Not all spells can be used to Coup de Grace, but Acid Splash is specifically one of the ones that can be used to do so. disregard that, I was under the impression any touch attack would work. There's apparently some disagreement on whether weaponlike spells actually count as weapons for the purpose of coup de grace.

Even if that's not present, I don't think I've ever been in a party that lacked a torch.

[AMFV]

Not all spells can be used to Coup de Grace, but Acid Splash is specifically one of the ones that can be used to do so. disregard that, I was under the impression any touch attack would work. There's apparently some disagreement on whether weaponlike spells actually count as weapons for the purpose of coup de grace.

Even if that's not present, I don't think I've ever been in a party that lacked a torch.

A torch does 1d3 damage, that makes it a maximum of 6 + twice strength mod on a crit. Since it's light. You've been doing nonlethal to the troll. It has still all of it's snazzy hitpoints or might be able to regenerate them almost as fast as you can bring them down.

A Coup De Grace isn't tantamount to an isnta-kill, it just generally is.

[Hexalan]

A torch does 1d3 damage, that makes it a maximum of 6 + twice strength mod on a crit. Since it's light. You've been doing nonlethal to the troll. It has still all of it's snazzy hitpoints or might be able to regenerate them almost as fast as you can bring them down.

A Coup De Grace isn't tantamount to an isnta-kill, it just generally is.

What's important in a Coup de Grace isn't just the auto-crit - it's forcing the fort save vs death.

[AMFV]

What's important in a Coup de Grace isn't just the auto-crit - it's forcing the fort save vs death.

Which Trolls happen to be very, very, very good at making.

[Milodiah]

Fortunately unconscious trolls aren't as good at rolling saves vs. being doused in oil and set on fire.

[AMFV]

Fortunately unconscious trolls aren't as good at rolling saves vs. being doused in oil and set on fire.

True, although to be fair that's not actually a save, and immolation doesn't actually do that much damage.

[icefractal]

Unless the warrior in question died immediately after taking down the troll, they can simply pound on it for a few rounds and make sure it's so far into negatives it won't wake up before it finishes cooking.

What is even the point of this sidebar anyway? Whether melee characters should go sit on the sidelines when a Troll shows up? If so, definitely not. We're not talking about a golem situation here (not that most casters are even stymied by a golem, for that matter).

[Kornaki]

Not if it can regenerate before that point or has back up. If all you've got is acid splash and it's got a lot of HD you might still have to fight it a few times, or it might get back up. Or it could even fake it's death and then come back after. I mean Trolls have huge con modifiers they can hold their breath a long time.

It might get back up? Why did the fighter and barbarian stop hacking it just because it fell over?

[Anxe]

It might get back up? Why did the fighter and barbarian stop hacking it just because it fell over?

Because of the three other trolls attacking them?

[Inevitability]

Okay, I did not intend to start a page-long discussion over whether or not trolls are unfair for melee people and how you should deal with a troll problem in your basement.

People, please use this thread what is is meant for. Troll discussions should probably be continued in a separate thread.

[JerichoPenumbra]

My two worst experiences:

1) Guy was running an old school-esque rpg. The party was the equivalent of 2 rogues and an enchanter (me). We walk into the room of dungeon and find a bunch of urns and a few are broken and empty. I open and look inside one and a small black ooze attacks me. We quickly determine that only fire can harm it and only one of the rogues was holding a torch. By sheer luck, he had enough unlit torches for the rest of us, we light 'em and surround the ooze. After about 3~4 rounds of us wailing on it with lit torches, barely bringing it down to half HP and us being brought down to half health as well, the DM says "Oh this is looking too easy for you guys" and had the mindless creature use tactics. It moved past us and smashed one of the other urns which also had a similar ooze in it. They both combine into a bigger ooze and to our dismay, we found out it could very reliably hit and one-shot each one each of us. TPK.

2) This one was a skype game. Not that the game itself was bad, just I had other circumstances that kept me from continuing it. The guy running it had a bit of a swearing problem and even admitted that he purposely acted like **** to other people to see if they would stay committed to the game in question. He said that it was because they kept having players come in and drop and he wanted to make sure the new guys coming in would stay. I don't care how much you've been burned by people dropping from a game, acting like a jerk-off to see if people will put up with it and stay is not how you should recruit people. My circumstances kept me from staying, but with the personality I saw I don't think I would have wanted to.

[DigoDragon]

The last Shadowrun 4e campaign I played in started out as advertised, but there's one tiny little adjustment-- the GM added a little AA company called 'KOCP' (Kaiba Omni-Consumer Products). The GM liked to act-out little dark humor commercials in the vein of the ones from Robocop during downtime. It was okay for a while since some of them were rather funny. Then the GM introduced the 'Mark I Dragon Mech'. It was an 8-foot tall robot stuffed with weapons and available for public sale.

Eventually we got attacked by one in a club fight (that we weren't even a party to) and it killed one of our contacts that was trying to get us a job. It took a lot of weaponry to bring it down, but hey, we managed to collect most of it's components before we ran off. Free stuff right? Nope. All the weapons and equipment on it 'self destruct' when the robot is destroyed, making it the most useless paperweight in Seattle. We sold the metal for scrap. Later on we acquired enough money together to buy one of these dragon robots. Hey, let's buy one and have some fun with it.

Nope.

The GM wouldn't let us buy one without a huge number of restrictions (can't use it in public even though we've seen 3 of them, can't modify it or it self-destructs, can't reprogram it, etc.) Okay, whatever, we dropped the idea and moved on. We look for new work, but the GM interrupts us with news that KOCP is now a AAA megacorp. That's nice, we're not interested in knowing about that, we're looking to find work. Ah, but we can't ignore this! See, KOCP built a new drone, the Robocop! Now Lonestar was replaced by machines that we couldn't damage at all, nor reason with (The team rigger was killed by one for double parking). Then next session the GM starts by informing us that KOCP bought out Ares, Horizon, and Wuxing. Oh, and they fired a nuke at Zurich Orbital, so the corporate court has been destroyed. KOCP now owns North America and plans on reuniting it under one flag. The NAN are totally okay with this.

Wha...?

So, by the 4th session this game went from the standard gritty cuberpunk future to one really ham-fisted fanfic about some little company that took over a continent by selling death traps publicly. We only managed to get about half-way through the 4th session before we all got up and quit (we waited for the GM to use the bathroom and then we packed up and left). Haven't heard from him since.

[lytokk]

Ya know Digo, with all your stories, quotes and the general light-heartedness I get the feeling of from your games, I have a hard time believing your group could of ever had a bad DM. And now I believe it.

Also, I love your avatar. Just throwin that out there.

[Segev]

While I certainly do not blame you for up and leaving when it got that painfully bad (really, the DMPC was just a corporpation, here), it's a little bad to leave while the DM's using the restroom rather than telling him, "hey, this just isn't working, so we don't want to play this game anymore." I mean, I know it's awkward and feels mean, but it's still better to tell him to his face. Maybe explain why, especially if he asks.

[Sith_Happens]

'KOCP' (Kaiba Omni-Consumer Products)

To me, the worst part of this story was the utter lack of references to trading card games.

...Or maybe that was the GM's plan all along, and if you stayed he'd have finished turning Shadowrun into Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's.

[Flashy]

To me, the worst part of this story was the utter lack of references to trading card games.

...Or maybe that was the GM's plan all along, and if you stayed he'd have finished turning Shadowrun into Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's.

The corp DID have an inexplicable dragon fixation.

Were the dragon mechs white?

EDIT: Did the corp screw the rules, because they had money?

[IllogicalBlox]

My two worst experiences:

1) Guy was running an old school-esque rpg. The party was the equivalent of 2 rogues and an enchanter (me). We walk into the room of dungeon and find a bunch of urns and a few are broken and empty. I open and look inside one and a small black ooze attacks me. We quickly determine that only fire can harm it and only one of the rogues was holding a torch. By sheer luck, he had enough unlit torches for the rest of us, we light 'em and surround the ooze. After about 3~4 rounds of us wailing on it with lit torches, barely bringing it down to half HP and us being brought down to half health as well, the DM says "Oh this is looking too easy for you guys" and had the mindless creature use tactics. It moved past us and smashed one of the other urns which also had a similar ooze in it. They both combine into a bigger ooze and to our dismay, we found out it could very reliably hit and one-shot each one each of us. TPK.

2) This one was a skype game. Not that the game itself was bad, just I had other circumstances that kept me from continuing it. The guy running it had a bit of a swearing problem and even admitted that he purposely acted like **** to other people to see if they would stay committed to the game in question. He said that it was because they kept having players come in and drop and he wanted to make sure the new guys coming in would stay. I don't care how much you've been burned by people dropping from a game, acting like a jerk-off to see if people will put up with it and stay is not how you should recruit people. My circumstances kept me from staying, but with the personality I saw I don't think I would have wanted to.

[sarcasm]Wow, I wonder why?[/sarcasm]

[Sith_Happens]

EDIT: Did the corp screw the rules, because they had money?

All corps in Shadowrun do that.

[Alberic Strein]

All corps in Shadowrun do that.

But did KOCP deposit a copyright for said maneuver?

[blacklight101]

My worst, compared to some of the others, isn't awful, just kinda bad. Possibly the oft-heard tale of the uber DMPC that proceeds to railroad the party when we get a little off track in our wanderings, but still proceeding to the goal otherwise, combined with a player that was just... not meant for this type of group, to say the least. It didn't last too long after social drama OOC started to get in the game from a few (there were 7 players and the DM, it was a big game) of them and just ruin what could have been a better campaign. A couple of the people were super creative and awesome to play with and created, for us, memorable characters that my wife and I still talk about some 8 years later.

Not awful, but its too bad about losing contact with some of the players after the fact for the same OOC drama. I think it would have lasted otherwise, even with railroading, if only to hear what a couple of them could come up with to make the DM **** a brick now and then. Sometimes it was worth it just to nag him/his DMPC.

[DigoDragon]

Ya know Digo, with all your stories, quotes and the general light-heartedness I get the feeling of from your games, I have a hard time believing your group could of ever had a bad DM. And now I believe it.
Also, I love your avatar. Just throwin that out there.

I been participating in tabletop RPGs since... 1994-95 I want to say. Under the years of fond memories and hilariousness, there are a few blemishes.

And thanks. :3

While I certainly do not blame you for up and leaving when it got that painfully bad (really, the DMPC was just a corporpation, here), it's a little bad to leave while the DM's using the restroom rather than telling him, "hey, this just isn't working, so we don't want to play this game anymore." I mean, I know it's awkward and feels mean, but it's still better to tell him to his face. Maybe explain why, especially if he asks.

This is true, and I don't recommend to anyone that they should copy that stunt because I fully admit it's a jerk-move we pulled (even if some of us didn't know that GM for very long).

To me, the worst part of this story was the utter lack of references to trading card games.
...Or maybe that was the GM's plan all along, and if you stayed he'd have finished turning Shadowrun into Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's.

If that was the case, maybe it was good we quit and not tried to stick around longer. I'm terrible at children's card games. XD

The corp DID have an inexplicable dragon fixation.

Were the dragon mechs white?

They were... silver I think?

EDIT: Did the corp screw the rules, because they had money?

All corps in Shadowrun do that.

Yes, but this one had the money to screw meta rules!
That's a corp you don't mess with.