Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

[Temotei]

Jormengand, Zalphon, sajro, and sengmeng still have to vote to qualify; make sure you do that, peeps.

[boomwolf]

Ok, this might seem a bit odd at first, but think this one through please.

Is there a REASON, as in a VALID reason why conest XXVI cannot begin until the current voting thread is over?

AFAIK there is no relation between the two, and starting the next storm right away can help reduce the downtime this contest often suffers from. (you got nothing to work on while the voting is on, and the voting is often rather long)

Not that relevant this time, as there are only two days until its over-so even if we start right now we only saved 2 days-but as a future referance, it might be better to start the next contest right after the timer is finished-and having each voting run in parallel to the next brewing?

[Carl]

Been thinking of entering the next contest however a mater of terminology is escaping my search fu on the SRD. I know outsiders with a strong connection to the material plane are considered native subtype. But whats the equivalent for mortals with a strong connection and ability to live without negative consequence, (in the same way as the natural denizens) on a plane other than the material one?

[Beelzebub1111]

Been thinking of entering the next contest however a mater of terminology is escaping my search fu on the SRD. I know outsiders with a strong connection to the material plane are considered native subtype. But whats the equivalent for mortals with a strong connection and ability to live without negative consequence, (in the same way as the natural denizens) on a plane other than the material one?

It would be whatever the creature is, but with the extraplanar subtype when encountered outside its home plane. Like a celestial animal.

[boomwolf]

Carl-what exacly has led you to belive that it will be relevant for the next contest? AFAIK the subject was not stated.

[Carl]

It would be whatever the creature is, but with the extraplanar subtype when encountered outside its home plane. Like a celestial animal.

I',m thinking more in the context of say a colony of Humans/Dwarves/Elves/Whatever that been living on a plane so long that the new plane has become their home plane, they're climatically adapted, (i.e. the unique traits of the plane no longer negatively effect them), but they're not actually outsiders or anything.

Carl-what exactly has led you to believe that it will be relevant for the next contest? AFAIK the subject was not stated.

There's a strong leaning one way so far it seems, so making an educated guess on next contest based on that. if it goes some other way, *shrug*, i can save it for another day.

[Beelzebub1111]

I',m thinking more in the context of say a colony of Humans/Dwarves/Elves/Whatever that been living on a plane so long that the new plane has become their home plane, they're climatically adapted, (i.e. the unique traits of the plane no longer negatively effect them), but they're not actually outsiders or anything.

Then they would be humanoids with the extraplanar subtype. See: Elemental Racial Variants

[Temotei]

Ok, this might seem a bit odd at first, but think this one through please.

Is there a REASON, as in a VALID reason why conest XXVI cannot begin until the current voting thread is over?

AFAIK there is no relation between the two, and starting the next storm right away can help reduce the downtime this contest often suffers from. (you got nothing to work on while the voting is on, and the voting is often rather long)

Not that relevant this time, as there are only two days until its over-so even if we start right now we only saved 2 days-but as a future referance, it might be better to start the next contest right after the timer is finished-and having each voting run in parallel to the next brewing?

It's mostly to ease the burden on voters who also participate in the contests; it gives extra time to vote without pressure to make an entry at the same time. This is even more important now that participants are required to vote in order to qualify their entries.

Speaking of, not everybody who has entered the current contest has voted--get on it, yo.

[Temotei]

A user sent a personal message to me expressing concern over voting procedures possibly biasing votes when they're made later in the voting period--there aren't any accusations flying around, so no worries--it's just a concern over the system, rather than any participants in the system.

So we come to a question: What does everyone think about private voting (wherein voters would send PMs to me and I'd tally them up at the end rather than as we go)?

Pros

• Basically eliminates bias based on voting time
• Allows voters who don't want to post publicly about their favorites to vote without pressure
• Others?

Cons

• More work for me (not a problem, really)
• An invisible voting process will likely make the contests' flow feel even more sluggish
• Publicity loss = less participants and possibly less voters

Anyway, thoughts on this idea are welcome; the current voting thread will be unaffected and I won't change procedure until I get a good idea of opinions from others in general.

If this were implemented, it would likely involve no longer including a voting thread, but instead simply copy-pasting the votes from PMs into this thread at the end of the voting period (with each user's name being replaced with "Voter" or simply removed to preserve anonymity) so that no one feels uncomfortable just taking my word on everything.

[Jormengand]

--there aren't any accusations flying around, so no worries--

Yes, but it's obvious who they were thinking of.

But honestly, I think everyone has a good idea of who's going to win and who isn't right from the start. If you do blind votes, the only difference it will make is creating the possibility of everyone accidentally voting for the same bad entry that doesn't deserve the win.

[Carl]

Honestly not sure myself. I do agree that when i was voting the time i left it late i pretty much went wit the most popular for one choice. Then again i don't usually know who to vote for anyway, unless the entry has something cool about it i rarely know what to make of it, as noted by everyone i'm not the best at spotting how something will play. Certainly i can see the dangers of confirmation bias so i wouldn't be against this, and the savings on forum space would probably be popular with everyone else :p.

[kanachi]

I think the bigger issue is keeping it so the reviews/peaches/comments about the votes are still visible all to those who enter. I know not everyone does it, but I think its nice to have a comment/reason posted about why your voting for a class. It is useful for everyone and gives an opportunity to tell the author what they may improve to make their entry even better (should they want to continue working on it outside the contest).

You could post the full transcription of each persons vote rather than just their ratings. This would both keep the voting secret until after the process is over (after which I doubt anyone cares who voted for who - I'm happy for people to know who I voted for and why) whilst also giving each person the chance to see any comments that were made regarding their class.

This might also be nice way to avoid confirmation bias (as previously stated), avoiding everyone simply voting for the same thing everyone else did simply because the group think seems to be saying that its good.

I'm happy either way though.

[r2d2go]

A user sent a personal message to me expressing concern over voting procedures possibly biasing votes when they're made later in the voting period--there aren't any accusations flying around, so no worries--it's just a concern over the system, rather than any participants in the system.

So we come to a question: What does everyone think about private voting (wherein voters would send PMs to me and I'd tally them up at the end rather than as we go)?

I'd be good with that

[1pwny]

It'd be a tad more work, but I'm willing to do it.

[Zaydos]

I'm fine either way.

[Just to Browse]

I'm not a fan of the idea, because the thread loses publicity. I'd say if people are voting for another class because they see it has more points, their votes are just wild cards and will be decided by something equally unhelpful.

[Jormengand]

So... are we going to have another contest?

[Beelzebub1111]

If I had to guess, it's probably some post-holiday fatigue. Give it until the new year.

[Temotei]

Hey, everyone. I haven't been on my computer for several days now, hence the delay.

Anyway:

In 1st Place: Dungeon Master, by Jormengand!

In 2nd Place: Architect by kanachi and Dungeon Engineer by r2d2go!

And in 3rd Place: Ruin Delver, by Zaydos!

No tiebreak because I'd like to just get on to the next contest, but I did glance through both of the 2nd-place entries. Both look like classes I'd love to play.

Next contest will be up shortly; I'll edit this post when it's up.

Here we are.

[Jormengand]

In the Dungeons of Dracoria, there is said to reside the terrible being known only as the Dungeon Master. The Dungeon Master's vile Lieutenants, a Trapcaster, an Architect and a Dungeon Engineer, have designed that place to be deadly to all, and yet it is said that a Corner Dweller still lives therein, driven mad by the isolation from any but the evil servants of the Dungeon Master. Now, our heroes launch an assault on the Dungeons, hoping to end the Dungeon Master's tyranny once and for all: A Dungeon Crawler, a Dungeon Crasher, a Ravensworn and a Ruin Delver make their way towards the entrance to the dungeon. Will they defeat the Dungeon Master, or will they fail? Will they rescue the Corner Dweller, or will he escape? And how many of the nine will make it out of the dungeon alive?

Sorry, fit of inspiration. You may now continue.

Here we are.

Named after DM capstone?

[Zaydos]

So I finally have reason to make my Simic Evolutionist class? Excellent... now if I can find the preliminary notes on how I was going to have creatures, mana, grafts, and evolutions work...

[Jormengand]

So I finally have reason to make my Simic Evolutionist class? Excellent... now if I can find the preliminary notes on how I was going to have creatures, mana, grafts, and evolutions work...

See, I wondered how long it would be before MtG happened.

I'm thinking Warhammer, but not sure how I'd squeeze a 20-level class out of anything from that. Maybe like the Brettonian knights (making your way up the ranks?) but... ehh. I kinda want to do warlock engineer, but not sure how that'd work.

[Zaydos]

See, I wondered how long it would be before MtG happened.

I'm thinking Warhammer, but not sure how I'd squeeze a 20-level class out of anything from that. Maybe like the Brettonian knights (making your way up the ranks?) but... ehh. I kinda want to do warlock engineer, but not sure how that'd work.

I called simic way back when this theme was first suggested, possibly in the last chat thread. Didn't hurt that it was an idea I already had in my head, and helped when my only other concepts were:

Izzet?
Solar Exalted? -I have played Exalted ONCE-
Raksha?? -And never played a Raksha-
Settler of Catan -really a prc concept more than a base class-
I had another board game based concept that I've forgotten -I forgot it and it was bad-
Oh or Hill House Traitor/Haunt -have no idea in Baator how that would work-

So I went with Simic.

[Beelzebub1111]

I've had one idea for a while, and I'm pretty sure it would work. I just need to write out everything for it. I just hope it stays original while I'm writing it.

Dear god, I'm going to have to make a lot of spells.

For warhammer, I could see a Slayer as a good class. or maybe a Ratcatcher.

[MrNobody]

I'm thinking about a truenamer-like class using Scrabble, but i'm uncertain. If i'll find the time i'll try to work on it!

[Beelzebub1111]

So I finally have reason to make my Simic Evolutionist class? Excellent... now if I can find the preliminary notes on how I was going to have creatures, mana, grafts, and evolutions work...

New Simic? The ghost of Momir Vig will be very disappointed in you. ;)

I've got the framework down, and a good progression in my opinion. I just need to fill in the blanks and write the damn spells. And to pull myself away from presequel.

[Zaydos]

New Simic? The ghost of Momir Vig will be very disappointed in you. ;)

I've got the framework down, and a good progression in my opinion. I just need to fill in the blanks and write the damn spells. And to pull myself away from presequel.

I said Grafts and Evolutions. Why limit yourself to one when you can do both? I still have to decide how true to M:tG fluff I want to be, or if I should just make it both for the sake of a bigger pool of abilities to play around with.

[Beelzebub1111]

oh, by graft I thought you meant in the D&D sense, not cytoplasm.

[Zaydos]

oh, by graft I thought you meant in the D&D sense, not cytoplasm.

I might do something to make the two work together, but by default yeah I mean the cytoplasm, might end up calling them cytoplasmic grafts for some rules clarity.

[Just to Browse]

I call dibs on Kittens in a Blender.