The Elder Scrolls: It's the IX Divines, you milk-drinkers

[NineThePuma]

The thieve's guild's problem (along with everyone but the dark brotherhood, honestly) are that there is very little pacing. They all have some "side quest" thing you can do that involves going and doing guild work, but other than the Dark Brotherhood, there's literally nothing stopping you from just playing out each main quest in sequence and never really doing other things; in response, I grabbed a Thieves Guild mod that lets you go and pick up one of each thief mission at a time, thereby allowing you to have 7 jobs scattered around skyrim, and resolved to do a full set between main thieves guild missions (note: "special" jobs in other capitols and the Khajiit Caravans were considered main missions).

I haven't discovered a mod to do the same for the companions, but I personally just... don't play characters where it would be appropriate, a lot of the time, for me to play through the questline to completion. There's a point in the middle where most of my characters basically Nope the **** out.

[Divayth Fyr]

Restoring the guild after you've done the rubbish questline is quite good though.

Except the part where you need to do 5 quests in each city, but the targets are assigned randomly... Though I agree, the rest of that restoration bit is good.

[DigoDragon]

Except the part where you need to do 5 quests in each city, but the targets are assigned randomly...

Yeah, I saved and reloaded a bunch of times to get around that.

I think the one part of the main Thieves Guild quest that felt roguish was breaking into the Goldenglow Estate. That was pretty fun to do stealthily.

[Winter_Wolf]

Except the part where you need to do 5 quests in each city, but the targets are assigned randomly... Though I agree, the rest of that restoration bit is good.

That in particular was why I grabbed up one of the mods that lets you pick which cities Vex and Delvin hand out. Honestly for all the thiefly team player types I play (not many) I could just as well uninstall it and probably not notice, but once you start down the dark path, it's kind of hard to stop. Once I discovered I could make my own (very simple) mods, it was all over.

[Duck999]

Except the part where you need to do 5 quests in each city, but the targets are assigned randomly... Though I agree, the rest of that restoration bit is good.

I was told I had a glitch that prevented me from restoration. It took me a while to figure out I didn't.
I also got the quest that is not possible after the civil war because you have to break into an unaccessible house.

[Triaxx]

I know there's a mod that expands the companion storyline so you have to do a few more missions to be able to actually advance with the companions, but I can't find it off hand.

As for the thieves guild the 'primary' expansion missions were much more fun than the 'main quest' missions. Except for Goldenglow though. That was epically fun.

[Feytalist]

I also found the second-to-last Thieves' Guild mission (the one tracking Mercer) pretty fun. Stalking around the Falmer with Karliah and Brynjolf is pretty fun if you try to do the no-detection route. Also the ending is one of the more unique quest setups I've come across.

The Companions questline is too short, honestly. You're barely a full member and boom, ending in sight.

The Dark Brotherhood quests tend to be some of the more fun ones, and Skyrim is no exception. But my issue with them is that by the end of the questline, basically everyone is dead, which is annoying. I liked Veezara.

[Divayth Fyr]

I also found the second-to-last Thieves' Guild mission (the one tracking Mercer) pretty fun. Stalking around the Falmer with Karliah and Brynjolf is pretty fun if you try to do the no-detection route

Until your bumbling sidekicks (that were supposed to be good at this stuff) decide to alert all the Falmer in the area...

The Dark Brotherhood quests tend to be some of the more fun ones, and Skyrim is no exception. But my issue with them is that by the end of the questline, basically everyone is dead, which is annoying. I liked Veezara.

I kinda dislike the DB since it does almost exactly the same thing that happened in Oblivion - a traitor leads to the near-complete destruction of the group. With the character who warms up a bit to you (though this time he has a reason for it) dying soon after it happens.

[Dhavaer]

Have you ever started a game and, a little way in, wished you'd been taking screenshots so you could do a let's play? I just had a 'fun' time in the mini-dungeon near Alftand with my new Breton mage Eris - she's joined the College of Winterhold to escape her parents' prohibitions on the amount of eyeshadow she can wear at any one time - and discovered that my familiar was entirely useless against the spiders. As she had no armour, needed nine more levels of Destruction to get the half-magicka perk and I'd decided to make this a weapon free game this resulted in a lot of running away and frequent abuse of the fire spray trap. Amazingly, she escaped with no damage taken other than from the fire spray trap.

[Malistrae]

The main thing about the thieves guild questline in Skyrim is that you hardly do any actual thieving during it.

Plenty of standard skyrim spelunking, but not a lot of thieving.

My main issue about the Thieves Guild is that it forces you to sell your soul to Nocturnal. I don't like doing that for roleplay reasons, especially when I play my character as a servant of some other Prince. And yes more thieving and other criminal activities would have been nice. I liked the first quest when you collect protection money. It would have been better if the game emphasised more that by taking over the Guild, you are essentially becoming the Godfather of Skyrim.
Ofc, at least the Thieves Guild has some presence in other cities. Unlike the College, ugh. As much as I disliked the anti-necromancy stance of the Oblivion Mages Guild, becoming the Archmage of that institution felt much more like an achievement, since you had facilities and employees all over Cyrodiil.
In fact, this is my general problem with Skyrim factions. There are too few of them and they are incredibly localized. I wouldn't have a problem with the latter if there were more factions to join. The Morrowind factions were much more awesome despite the fact that they mostly lacked a coherent questline. Perhaps if Bethesda focused more on making more joinable factions, instead of developing elaborate and unpopular questlines for a small amount of factions, the game would have been better.

[DigoDragon]

But my issue with them is that by the end of the questline, basically everyone is dead, which is annoying. I liked Veezara.

Yeah, I was fond of Festus. He was a hilarious 'cranky old uncle' I never had.
"When life gives you lemons, go murder a clown."

[veti]

My main issue about the Thieves Guild is that it forces you to sell your soul to Nocturnal. I don't like doing that for roleplay reasons, especially when I play my character as a servant of some other Prince.

Yeah, that's what hacks me off the most about it too. And the justification for doing it is so - flimsy. I just want to tell Karliah "look, I'm happy to help you hunt down Mercer, and I'll help with your religious crisis if I can, but I have other plans for my soul thankyousomuch".

In fact, this is my general problem with Skyrim factions. There are too few of them and they are incredibly localized. I wouldn't have a problem with the latter if there were more factions to join. The Morrowind factions were much more awesome despite the fact that they mostly lacked a coherent questline. Perhaps if Bethesda focused more on making more joinable factions, instead of developing elaborate and unpopular questlines for a small amount of factions, the game would have been better.

Looking back, I'd say Morrowind's factions had the opposite problem - there should (in an ideal game) have been more localisation there. Each guild house has its own subset of quests, which are not always congruent with the aims of other guild houses - it's like there are sub-factions within each guild. I love that (and Oblivion managed the same thing up to a point). But there was no follow-through - your reputation was the same with all members of the Mages' Guild, no matter which sub-faction you'd been working for. That seems like a wasted opportunity, but I suppose there's only so much time you can put into it.

[LibraryOgre]

The Dragonborn's soul (and likely that of the Nevarine, the Eternal Champion, the Agent, and the whateverthehellwe'recallingtheheroofOblivion) is a tattered thing, mortgaged to half a dozen demon princes.

I really want to make an Oblivion mod that allows you to cast levitation... but that being seen levitating is a crime.

[Togath]

I had forgotten some of those point about the thieves guild...
And looking at my mods, my only real reason for considering the chain was a mod or two that added stuff after.
Well, that and Goldenglow Estate.
The Nocturnal thing also seems a bit odd. There was a link to her in Oblivion(the cowl)... But no hint of the thieves being a deeply dedicated cult of hers.

The dark brotherhood is better, even if many of the npcs involved are wiped out(still, it's better than the "all but one gets wiped out" of Oblivion, even if the quests themselves aren't as interesting, and the npcs are amazing!).

Companions is one I've never finished... But looking it up it's shortness is bizarre. I sort of wonder if they had planned it to be longer and ran out of time/resources.

The mages college is... Weird.
If I'm remembering correctly, there's only two points where you actually need a spell, and at least one dungeon that is easier for a physical combat focused character than it is for a mage.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Yeah, that's what hacks me off the most about it too. And the justification for doing it is so - flimsy. I just want to tell Karliah "look, I'm happy to help you hunt down Mercer, and I'll help with your religious crisis if I can, but I have other plans for my soul thankyousomuch".

^This. "Look, Karliah...if you think we need better gear...I can make you and Brynjolf both Dragonscale armor and a weapon of your choice, with your choice of enchantments on each piece! It'll be much better and no one has to sell their soul or anything. Can we do that instead? ...Why not?"

Ah well. I hope she wasn't planning to keep the whole Nightingale thing a secret, since I was wearing her precious Nightingale armor in broad daylight as I visited shops to sell all my loot afterwards. :P

[DigoDragon]

I really want to make an Oblivion mod that allows you to cast levitation... but that being seen levitating is a crime.

"You are under arrest for breaking the law of gravity!"

[LibraryOgre]

"You are under arrest for breaking the law of gravity!"

Heh. Basically, it was a dodge to explain why, after levitating all the way around Morrowind, you were landbound in Oblivion. But, yeah, I want to FLY.

[Flickerdart]

I kinda dislike the DB since it does almost exactly the same thing that happened in Oblivion - a traitor leads to the near-complete destruction of the group.

I feel like this is probably inevitable for an organization primarily focused around murder.

[LibraryOgre]

I feel like this is probably inevitable for an organization primarily focused around murder.

You mean some professional murderers... recruited, if the PC is any sign, by simply finding someone who HAS murdered and drafting them by making them murder someone else... might have morals issues? Cue shock! Cue surprise!

[NEO|Phyte]

Regarding Nocturnal, obviously the game mechanics do a terrible job at indicating this, but the entire point of the pact was so that all the kickin' rad Nightingale voodoo would level the playing field against Mercer 'using the skeleton key to unlock metaphysical doors' Frey. It's not just a set of preenchanted gear.

[veti]

The Dragonborn's soul (and likely that of the Nevarine, the Eternal Champion, the Agent, and the whateverthehellwe'recallingtheheroofOblivion) is a tattered thing, mortgaged to half a dozen demon princes.

My memory may be deceiving me, but I don't recall ever promising the Nerevarine's soul to anyone. There's quite a - pointed - discussion on the subject with Hircine, but as usual he's just playing games... And you sort-of elect to be an agent of Azura, but there's no mention of souls. But then, if the Nerevarine is "Nerevar reborn", maybe his/her soul is already spoken for.

In Oblivion? You get to be a daedric prince. I never played the DB questline, but I don't recall any of the others involving pledging one's soul either. I may be wrong, but I currently think it's a Skyrim-specific fetish.

I really want to make an Oblivion mod that allows you to cast levitation... but that being seen levitating is a crime.

Now I'm tempted to reboot Morrowind just so's I can go to Mournhold and see what the Scrolls of Icarian Flight will do there.

[Mobius Twist]

Being able to come up to strength supposedly-possessed by Mercer Frey is the sales pitch that Karliah gives you. To Nocturnal in the midst of the actual ritual she gives a different sales pitch: Have two more souls to serve you in life and death and in return bring me back into your tender mercies. Even Nocturnal notes that the deal is heavily weighed in the daedric prince's favor.

At that point you're in the middle of the ceremony and pissing off a daedric prince in her own domain (the place her power is strongest in the mortal plane) is not a good idea whether you suddenly regret your choice or not.

You're sold a bad bill of goods, from what I understand, and have no choice but to go along with it once you figure that out.

I wouldn't be surprised if most Last Dragonborn players would then proceed to become vampires just to cheat all the princes that now own their soul.

[Landis963]

I wouldn't be surprised if most Last Dragonborn players would then proceed to become vampires just to cheat all the princes that now own their soul.

Doesn't work: Vampires are automatically in Molag Bal's employ, and thus goes double for the Volkihar breed.

As for Nocturnal, I just headcanon that the Dragonborn tries to even the scales with a question: "Can the Sepulcher be kept open without the Key?" and a boon: Allow me to keep the Key for a fortnight after Mercer's death, but is overruled by a panicky Karliah.

[GloatingSwine]

My memory may be deceiving me, but I don't recall ever promising the Nerevarine's soul to anyone. There's quite a - pointed - discussion on the subject with Hircine, but as usual he's just playing games... And you sort-of elect to be an agent of Azura, but there's no mention of souls. But then, if the Nerevarine is "Nerevar reborn", maybe his/her soul is already spoken for.

You might be Nerevar reborn. You're allowed to decide for yourself and tell Dagoth Ur "actually I'm just really good at killing stuff and was in the neighbourhood, I'm not actually lizard jesus"

[Duck999]

The Dragonborn's soul (and likely that of the Nevarine, the Eternal Champion, the Agent, and the whateverthehellwe'recallingtheheroofOblivion) is a tattered thing, mortgaged to half a dozen demon princes.

Only half a dozen? You need to work on that. My soul is pledged to (if we actually pledge our souls) all daedric princes in skyrim, including being pledged to Hircine twice. Then I became a vampire.

[Ailurus]

Being able to come up to strength supposedly-possessed by Mercer Frey is the sales pitch that Karliah gives you. To Nocturnal in the midst of the actual ritual she gives a different sales pitch: Have two more souls to serve you in life and death and in return bring me back into your tender mercies. Even Nocturnal notes that the deal is heavily weighed in the daedric prince's favor.

At that point you're in the middle of the ceremony and pissing off a daedric prince in her own domain (the place her power is strongest in the mortal plane) is not a good idea whether you suddenly regret your choice or not.

You're sold a bad bill of goods, from what I understand, and have no choice but to go along with it once you figure that out.

Once Karliah pitches the deal to Nocturnal, yeah, there's no backing out. But you find out about it before then, when she tells you and Brynjolf "The terms are quite simple, Brynjolf. Nocturnal will allow you to become a Nightingale and use your abilities for whatever you wish. And in return, both in life and in death, you must serve as a guardian of the Twilight Sepulcher." At which point, I've no idea why you and Brynjolf don't just walk out.

[Mobius Twist]

I guess it's because we're both pushovers. And the Nightingales are the Tamriel equivalent of Batman, and who doesn't want to be Batman?

[Feytalist]

Nocturnal's afterlife actually sounds a lot more pleasant than other daedric princes. You're let out of your guardian spirit "contract" after some time, after all. And if you're of the thieving persuasion anyway (which you should be, considering the questline), walking in the shadows helping other thieves sounds a downright idyllic afterlife.


Come to think of it, hunting with Hircine sounds pretty boss as well. If you're into that sort of thing.

[Triaxx]

I can just imagine: Hunting with Hircine when all of a sudden: Hey, I gotta go defend Nocturnals stuff... anyone want to come along and eat some people? *intruders are ripped to shreds by the wild hunt*

[DigoDragon]

It would be hilarious if daedric princes can't claim dragon souls in the same way they can claim mortal souls.