What's your opinion on Magic of Incarnum?

[atemu1234]

Another what's your opinion thread. Have fun.

[Fax Celestis]

Favorite 3.5 book, hands down. I just wish it had better formatting and structure: finding anything is difficult, and rules are strewn all over the place.

[Vinyl Scratch]

It is very Blue. Cerulean or Cobalt, even.

[Warlocknthewind]

I absolutely adore the Incarnum Subsystem.

There is something in it to enhance any build, the fluff is fresh, and everything but the Soulborn has it's place.

The amount of synergy between Incarnum, Psionics, and Blade magic is the basis of many many crunch concepts I have tried to but into my games.

Free PP from essentia, Free Essentia from Focus, Free refreshing maneuvers from Psionic Focus, free Psionic Focus from maneuvers, with only a bit of system mastery.

In E6 the combinations become appauling.c

[Vhaidara]

I love Incarnum. In Gestalt, i always pick Incarnate, Totemist, or Factotum as the passive side. There is just so much fun stuff you can do with it, from a strafing ranged attacker (manticore belt build) to grapplers (Kraken Mantle + Girallon Arms).

After seeing Path of War, I am eagerly awaiting Akashic Mysteries from DSP. Incarnum with good editing and formatting? Almost Tippy levels of pure win.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Favorite 3.5 book, hands down. I just wish it had better formatting and structure: finding anything is difficult, and rules are strewn all over the place.

It may not be my favorite out there, but I do love the subsystem. I really wish it got more love than what little it did get elsewhere.

[geekintheground]

it seems really cool. never used it, and only did some cursory reading, but i hear good things and what i read i was pleased by. only complaint is how hard it is how complex it is... takes a couple readings to understand it.

[Tommy2255]

Finally got around to figuring out last weekend, gonna try introducing some NPCs with a couple of the feats this Thursday, I mostly reserve judgement until then.

It looks promising. Mechanically useful and a rather interesting departure from any of the other magic systems. However, it's a bit more confusing to get started in than other systems. For instance, it has the same problem as Psionics where a major limitation and balancing factor is how much Essentia/PP you can invest into a particular ability, with that information buried somewhere that it's easy to miss, in the case of MoI in the introduction to the classes rather than in the description of the magic system as a whole.

[Extra Anchovies]

It is very Blue. Cerulean or Cobalt, even.

Are you sure you don't mean Azure, Midnight, or Sapphire?

Favorite 3.5 book, hands down. I just wish it had better formatting and structure: finding anything is difficult, and rules are strewn all over the place.

Agreed and agreed. I really like how they set out to come up with something entirely new, and not only did that but made something that is both balanced (Soulborn aside) and really useful, either for dipping or for the central element of a build. It's the only thing I like more than the Pact Magic subsystem. My main quibble with the book is that they sorted all the soulmelds alphabetically, when they should've divided the soulmelds into three lists (one for each class). My second quibble is that the quick-reference tables at the start of the chapter don't tell you the effects of essentia or binding. If they had done both of those, I don't think I'd have any criticisms of MoI.

I love Incarnum. In Gestalt, i always pick Incarnate, Totemist, or Factotum as the passive side. There is just so much fun stuff you can do with it, from a strafing ranged attacker (manticore belt build) to grapplers (Kraken Mantle + Girallon Arms).

After seeing Path of War, I am eagerly awaiting Akashic Mysteries from DSP. Incarnum with good editing and formatting? Almost Tippy levels of pure win.

Wait, DSP is reworking Incarnum? Now the only thing keeping me from switching to PF is Tome of Magic... I'll definitely have to actually try PF once that rewrite comes out, though

[Vhaidara]

Wait, DSP is reworking Incarnum? Now the only thing keeping me from switching to PF is Tome of Magic... I'll definitely have to actually try PF once that rewrite comes out, though

Well, I know there's already been a Binder conversion (Radiant House, the Occultist). Don't know about Shadowcasting and Truenaming, and I doubt that 3.5 Truenaming is keeping you to the system, since you need a homebrew fix to make it work right anyways

[Karnith]

Incarnum is probably my favorite subsystem, and it's a shame that, like most subsystems, it got minimal support in other sources (just a web enhancement and a Dragon article, I think?). It's deep, complex, and well-balanced with some very interesting fluff and mostly solid mechanical options - Soulborn is awful, and some of the PrCs are lackluster, but the material is otherwise great as a main focus of or small addition to a character.

[Extra Anchovies]

Incarnum is probably my favorite subsystem, and it's a shame that, like most subsystems, it got minimal support in other sources (just a web enhancement and a Dragon article, I think?). It's deep, complex, and well-balanced with some very interesting fluff and mostly solid mechanical options - Soulborn is awful, and some of the PrCs are lackluster, but the material is otherwise great as a main or side focus.

Well, it also got some stuff in Dragon Magic. That's actually my favorite book other than MoI, because it gave a bit of splat support to pretty much everything (new warlock invocations, a new vestige, new soulmelds, heck, even new stuff for the Dragon Shaman).

Well, I know there's already been a Binder conversion (Radiant House, the Occultist). Don't know about Shadowcasting and Truenaming, and I doubt that 3.5 Truenaming is keeping you to the system, since you need a homebrew fix to make it work right anyways

Waitwaitwait, they already redid the Binder? Where's the baptismal font, I'm ready for conversion

[Hiro Protagonest]

Reading it always leaves me feeling blue for some reason...

It's a system that makes sense, really. Warriors that fit in a world filled with magical creatures. I just don't really like the fluff about soul energy, I'd say Incarnate uses power from appropriate planes and Totemist uses power from the material plane and Feywild.

Also, I get confused as to why they'd include some melds that could only be gotten via feat, but maybe they thought Thunderstep Boots were too good to not cost a feat. >_>

[aleucard]

Its formatting is probably the single largest cluster@#$% of its kind in the entire 3.5 library. After you decode it, however, I'd have to say it's got some amusing little stunts it can pull, with the biggest one that comes to mind being able to pull off Epic crafting pre-Epic. Have yet to give it a hard look, but what little I've glossed over says that it could be fun, even if I indulged my inner gimp and put VoP on the toon I used the book with. Normally, the only ones who can pull that off properly are Primary Casters.

[Blackhawk748]

Like it a lot, all kinds of fun for pretty much any build you can think of.

[emeraldstreak]

Good.


ten chars

[Troacctid]

It's fun! But it's confusing to learn and not very well organized, and there's a lot of chaff mixed in with the good stuff. Some things really bother me. Why do Sapphire Hierarchs have to be lawful, and why is it Cleric-only? Does Witchborn Binder really need to have half-meldshaping with class features that scale based on meldshaper level? And what's the use of being able to invest essentia in feats if you can't move it around like you can with all other essentia receptacles? That's supposed to be like the whole point of essentia!

[Psyren]

I love the notion of it being a more primitive form of magic that is nonetheless still effective. MoI touched on this a little but Akashic Mysteries is really running with that idea and I might end up liking that version even more as a result. I can always port in the melds I really want to keep if I need to.

Waitwaitwait, they already redid the Binder? Where's the baptismal font, I'm ready for conversion

There's even a handbook! [/shamelessplug]

(Don't mind the paint everywhere, I'm redecorating with the Vol 2. spirits )

[WhamBamSam]

I like it a lot. I mostly use it for its dip friendly nature, in part because the classes are more than a little front-loaded, but it's a great addition to the game. I should really try playing a full Totemist or Incarnate at some point.

[Oddman80]

Just read it for the first time this week. I thought it was great. I just read through the totemist handbook, and am about to start petitioning my DM to allow the classes from it (he has a peculiar mix of classes on his OK list, which lends me to think it may consist only of classes he himself has played... I might need to find a new group to try it out, but I probably would be willing too given how cool the material was.

[Vhaidara]

I like it a lot. I mostly use it for its dip friendly nature, in part because the classes are more than a little front-loaded, but it's a great addition to the game. I should really try playing a full Totemist or Incarnate at some point.

Full Totemist is really fun for silly amounts of dice. I have a Totemist 20 build that does, in one round
528d4 fire
32d6 fire
32d6 cold
32d6 acid
32d6 electricity
32d6 untyped
32x Str mod

Spoiler: Build

Show

Totemist 20, grab Expanded Soulmeld Capacity x2 and Double Bind (Totem and Waist). Get an Incarnum Belt. Bind Manticore Belt and Heart of Fire to Totem and Waist, and select them for ESC, raising their cap to 8 (4 normal, 2 Totem, 1 ESC, 1 Incarnum Focus). Get an Amulet of Natural Attacks keyed to Spikes with Flaming, Corrosive, Frost, and Shocking. Get a Belt of Battle. Activate Totem Embodiment.
Now, as a standard action, you can throw 16 spikes, each of which does 1d6 each of untyped (Manticore Belt damage is technically untyped), fire, cold, electrical, and acid, +Str Mod, +16d4 from Heart of Fire. Activate Belt of Battle and do it twice.
Congrats, with your move action still available, you just rolled almost 700 dice (688, to be precise)

[Snowbluff]

It is very Blue. Cerulean or Cobalt, even.

Vinyl, baby, that's the best part! Just like your mane!

I like it, but it's not my fave. I like ToB and Tome of Vestiges better. The layout is a bit of a mess, and I wish we had more soulmeld options.

[malonkey1]

You can probably guess if you've known me for a while, I am a big fan of Incarnum. I just really like any system that busts out of the Vancian mold, Incarnum, ToB, Binding, et cetera. (I would have written "etc." but it's always hard for me to figure out the proper way to end a sentence with an abbreviation)

[PsyBomb]

Easily my favorite subsystem in 3.5, I've played more Totemists than any other class (including a VoP which was actually functional) and the Ironsoul Forgemaster is like a Dwarven Defender that actually works.

[Psyren]

Easily my favorite subsystem in 3.5, I've played more Totemists than any other class (including a VoP which was actually functional) and the Ironsoul Forgemaster is like a Dwarven Defender that actually works.

I'd give Deepstone Sentinel that award personally, but IF comes second.

[Blackhawk748]

Full Totemist is really fun for silly amounts of dice. I have a Totemist 20 build that does, in one round
528d4 fire
32d6 fire
32d6 cold
32d6 acid
32d6 electricity
32d6 untyped
32x Str mod

Spoiler: Build

Show

Totemist 20, grab Expanded Soulmeld Capacity x2 and Double Bind (Totem and Waist). Get an Incarnum Belt. Bind Manticore Belt and Heart of Fire to Totem and Waist, and select them for ESC, raising their cap to 8 (4 normal, 2 Totem, 1 ESC, 1 Incarnum Focus). Get an Amulet of Natural Attacks keyed to Spikes with Flaming, Corrosive, Frost, and Shocking. Get a Belt of Battle. Activate Totem Embodiment.
Now, as a standard action, you can throw 16 spikes, each of which does 1d6 each of untyped (Manticore Belt damage is technically untyped), fire, cold, electrical, and acid, +Str Mod, +16d4 from Heart of Fire. Activate Belt of Battle and do it twice.
Congrats, with your move action still available, you just rolled almost 700 dice (688, to be precise)

I would get a library thrown at me for this, but so worth it. Oddly enough you arnet even doing anything that crazy

[Vhaidara]

I would get a library thrown at me for this, but so worth it. Oddly enough you arnet even doing anything that crazy

Oh, I would to. After we finished laughing, we'd all go to the library and my group would push a shelf down on me. Then go to buy the dice they need to figure out how dead the thing is. And a bucket to roll them in.

[Rubik]

Full Totemist is really fun for silly amounts of dice. I have a Totemist 20 build that does, in one round
528d4 fire
32d6 fire
32d6 cold
32d6 acid
32d6 electricity
32d6 untyped
32x Str mod

Spoiler: Build

Show

Totemist 20, grab Expanded Soulmeld Capacity x2 and Double Bind (Totem and Waist). Get an Incarnum Belt. Bind Manticore Belt and Heart of Fire to Totem and Waist, and select them for ESC, raising their cap to 8 (4 normal, 2 Totem, 1 ESC, 1 Incarnum Focus). Get an Amulet of Natural Attacks keyed to Spikes with Flaming, Corrosive, Frost, and Shocking. Get a Belt of Battle. Activate Totem Embodiment.
Now, as a standard action, you can throw 16 spikes, each of which does 1d6 each of untyped (Manticore Belt damage is technically untyped), fire, cold, electrical, and acid, +Str Mod, +16d4 from Heart of Fire. Activate Belt of Battle and do it twice.
Congrats, with your move action still available, you just rolled almost 700 dice (688, to be precise)

I'm fairly certain that manticore spikes aren't natural attacks, though it's debatable. I guess.

[Requiem_Jeer]

Well, he certainly got one thing wrong: You only add half your strength modifier to the manticore spikes.

[Extra Anchovies]

(including a VoP which was actually functional)

Hm. Hadn't thought about VoP Incarnum before. Considering that Incarnum is all about filling your magic item slots with free stuff, that could actually work. Totemist in particular, because they get some nasty weapons from their binds/melds. May have to try it myself.