Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

[Curmudgeon]

Sub-dysfunction of above: it says to provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak, and implicitely do so. It never says you actually have to speak out loud.

Yeah, it does. Might I suggest a more thorough reading of Player's Handbook? From page 140:

Spell Components: To cast a spell with a verbal (V) component, your character must speak in a firm voice. If you’re gagged or in the area of a silence spell, you can’t cast such a spell. A spellcaster who has been deafened has a 20% chance to spoil any spell he tries to cast if that spell has a verbal component.

To cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, you must gesture freely with at least one hand. You can’t cast a spell of this type while bound, grappling, or with both your hands full or occupied (swimming, clinging to a cliff, or the like).

Elsewhere in the book (page 170) it specifies that you must have the capabilities. But 30 pages earlier it had already stated that you must actually perform those actions.

[Chronos]

Isn't Surrogate Spellcasting from Savage Species, though? Maybe 3.0 didn't have the rule that you could make somatic components with other body parts.

[zergling.exe]

In the Weapon Group Feats alternate rules from Unearthed Arcana. You can only gain proficiency with spears if you take the druid category; the Spears and Lances group only includes long- and shortspears, not regular ones.

[Telok]

If you check the standard druid you'll find that they are proficent with spears. But not long spears.

I don't recall offhand if they are proficent with short speats, but I want to say no.

[zergling.exe]

If you check the standard druid you'll find that they are proficent with spears. But not long spears.

I don't recall offhand if they are proficent with short speats, but I want to say no.

You missed it.

Weapon Group (Druid Weapons)
You understand how to use weapons favored by druids.
Benefit:You make attack rolls with the following weapons normally: club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, sickle, shortspear, sling, and spear.

Weapon Group (Spears and Lances)
You understand how to use spears and javelins.
Benefit:You make attack rolls with the following weapons normally: javelin, lance, longspear, shortspear, and trident.

Spears highlighted. No other groups grant proficiency with the spear either, and I don't believe any errata was released for the 3.5 version of Unearthed Arcana.

Edit: I would like to point out an error in the handbook i just noticed: it says that Necropolitans are healed by both Cure and Inflict spells, this is untrue. As undead creatures they are harmed by Cure spells by the fact that they specifically point out that they harm undead. How this has persisted the last 5 threads I'm unsure.

[Jeff the Green]

Nets also aren't available through weapon groups.

[Erik Vale]

Edit: I would like to point out an error in the handbook i just noticed: it says that Necropolitans are healed by both Cure and Inflict spells, this is untrue. As undead creatures they are harmed by Cure spells by the fact that they specifically point out that they harm undead. How this has persisted the last 5 threads I'm unsure.

Specific trumps general, if it says Nercropolitans are healed by cure spells they're healed by cure spells despite the general harms undead.

[zergling.exe]

Specific trumps general, if it says Nercropolitans are healed by cure spells they're healed by cure spells despite the general harms undead.

Where does it say that Cure spells heal them? Unnatural Resistance notes that they recover hit point and ability damage at the same rate as living creatures (ie. natural healing, as they are intelligent undead), but I don't see anything specifying that they are healed by Cure spells.

Which gives us another dysfunction! All other intelligent undead have their natural healing increased by the Heal skill, unless that is normal?

Edit: Hmm, going back to the origin of this 'dysfunction', it was even clarified in discussion that it only applies to positive energy effects that don't have the 'harms undead' clause in them; poor translation into the handbook it seems.

Nets also aren't available through weapon groups.

Not as problematic as not being able to use spears, when was the last time you wanted to use a net?

[deuxhero]

Pathfinder doesn't agree if the negatives to ability scores are "penalties" or simple decreases. Every source (Age Resistance spell line, Mantle of Immortality, Sands of Time, Nacreous Gray Sphere, Threefold Aspect, Cairn Linnorm's curse, Immortality arcane discovery, one of the possible results of drinking Strange Fluids from a spaceship and the Monk and Druid's Timeless Body ability from a quick check) EXCEPT the age rules themselves (which say "physical ability scores decrease") calls them a penalty.

This is actually important for a number of things, such as if an age lowered con score reduces your HP total or qualifications. If they are penalties, there's a sub-dysfunction that in Pathfinder ability damage/drain/penalties instead of directly subtracting from your scores have negatives for every two points so middle age only makes you slightly more vulnerable to ability score penalties and is otherwise a boon.

[Jeff the Green]

Not as problematic as not being able to use spears, when was the last time you wanted to use a net?

Frequently, actually. It's a ranged touch attack that entangles and is hard to escape from. It's particularly nice to keep someone from running away while you whack them with a reach weapon. Granted, the nonproficiency penalty hurts much less here than with other weapons (since it's a touch attack), but it's still a dysfunction.

[deuxhero]

The PF downtime spell research rules in Ultimate Campaign don't include the normal "cantrips are considered 1/2 spells for this purpose" clause most/all effects based on a multiple of spell level have. This means you can instantly research cantrips for no cost.

The Premium Player's Handbook has a few unadvertised changes: it's not just a combination of the original book plus errata.

Interesting. Is there a list (or at least some examples) of such changes out there?

[Curmudgeon]

Interesting. Is there a list (or at least some examples) of such changes out there?

I don't own a copy of the book myself, but I do have one example: the Spring Attack feat.

Benefit: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can split your move action in that round in order to move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can't use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.

You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.

Benefit: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.

You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.

[Gemini476]

The PF downtime spell research rules in Ultimate Campaign don't include the normal "cantrips are considered 1/2 spells for this purpose" clause most/all effects based on a multiple of spell level have. This means you can instantly research cantrips for no cost.

I don't know how dysfunctional that really is, to be honest. Don't the classes with unlimited spells known know all cantrips anyway? And the ones who have limited spells known still have limited spells known.

So what's the purpose of researching cantrips?

[Qwertystop]

I don't know how dysfunctional that really is, to be honest. Don't the classes with unlimited spells known know all cantrips anyway? And the ones who have limited spells known still have limited spells known.

So what's the purpose of researching cantrips?

Spell research includes developing new spells. Basically, your class list of cantrips goes from "these are weak spells you can use as much as you want" to "Do whatever, within this general power level." Prestidigitation is no longer "Least Wish," because just having cantrips is that.

I'm not sure if that's actually a problem, of course - they've already got a wide variety of infinite-use minor magic tricks, widening it a bit more is just thematic - but I doubt it was intended, or they'd have just said so outright.

[The Random NPC]

Also the research rules allow you to add spells to your spells known.

[ShurikVch]

"Ravenous" template for undead (Dr#319): "if Ravenous creature slays a living creature, it immediately starts eating it (WillNeg, DC15). While eating, the Ravenous creature looses its Dexterity bonus to AC & does not make Attacks of Opportunity." Template that can be applied to Corporeal Undead... including skeletons, fossils, and so on!

Fortunately, another template for undead, "Fleshvigor" (Dr#315), with it's Cannibalistic Healing, can be applied only to "corporeal non-Skeletal Undead"... Except... you know... that one small undead from the Libris Mortis...

Spoiler

Show

Raiment

Spell Undeath after Death (Player’s Guide to Faerûn):

When it dies, the corrupted life force initiates a slow change in its body, causing it to animate as a crypt spawn at the next sunset (see Chapter 6 in Monstrous Compendium: Monsters of Faerûn).

Nor Chapter 6, nor any other chapter of MC: MoF have this template

Improved Oneiromancy feat (Heroes of Horror) required Dreamcasting, whatever it is... (Probably, Dreamtelling )

Dragons of Krynn, Black Dragonspawn Racial Traits:

Breath Weapon (Su): A black dragonspawn as a breath weapon in the form of a line of acid (60 ft. long, 4d4 fire, Reflex save DC 10 + 1/2 black dragonspawn’s Hit Dice + black dragonspawn’s Constitution modifier) that it may use once every 2d4 rounds.

Acid which do fire damage...

[Inevitability]

Acid which do fire damage...

One of the developers must've taken the concept of 'chemical burns' quite literally.

[Curmudgeon]

Dragons of Krynn, Black Dragonspawn Racial Traits: Acid which do fire damage...

Already been fixed. The Dragonspawn from Dragonlance Campaign Setting and elsewhere have been updated in Bestiary of Krynn, Revised on pages 43-48. (An interesting rules case there, with a non-D&D book containing an official update for a D&D source.)

[ShurikVch]

Already been fixed. The Dragonspawn from Dragonlance Campaign Setting and elsewhere have been updated in Bestiary of Krynn, Revised on pages 43-48. (An interesting rules case there, with a non-D&D book containing an official update for a D&D source.)

How can book released in Nov, 2006 (Bestiary of Krynn, Revised) fix book released in Sep 2007 (Dragons of Krynn)?

[Curmudgeon]

How can book released in Nov, 2006 (Bestiary of Krynn, Revised) fix book released in Sep 2007 (Dragons of Krynn)?

No, it can only fix Dragonlance Campaign Setting. However, it can show that the entry in Dragons of Krynn is just a typo rather than a dysfunction. You need to address the discrepancy between the full Dragonspawn breath weapon energy type (page 119, fire, which you referred to) and the afflicted (not fully realized) Dragonspawn breath weapon energy type (page 123, acid) anyway, and Bestiary of Krynn, Revised shows that it is just a typo.

[ShurikVch]

No, it can only fix Dragonlance Campaign Setting. However, it can show that the entry in Dragons of Krynn is just a typo rather than a dysfunction. You need to address the discrepancy between the full Dragonspawn breath weapon energy type (page 119, fire, which you referred to) and the afflicted (not fully realized) Dragonspawn breath weapon energy type (page 123, acid) anyway, and Bestiary of Krynn, Revised shows that it is just a typo.

I fully understand it
(It's just too funny to be true!)
But until the Errata it's RAW, and belong in this thread

[Sith_Happens]

Also the research rules allow you to add spells to your spells known.

The hilarious part is, this isn't even one of those dysfunctions that you have to squint to notice, it's written clear as day:

When your days of progress equal the total number of days needed, the spell is completed and added to your spellbook or list of spells known.

[Qwertystop]

The hilarious part is, this isn't even one of those dysfunctions that you have to squint to notice, it's written clear as day:

So in other words, that dysfunction equates to "spontaneous casters have an infinite variety of cantrips."

Really not sure why that's a problem, like I said above.

[Sith_Happens]

So in other words, that dysfunction equates to "spontaneous casters have an infinite variety of cantrips."

Really not sure why that's a problem, like I said above.

It also means that they can know as many spells of any other level as they have the time and money to learn. Not that I think that's a problem either, but it's most certainly not what Paizo intended.

[Fax Celestis]

Here's a new one: if you advance Ur-Priest casting with another class, you gain 1.5 caster levels per level, better than just staying in the class.

The ur-priest spell list is identical to the cleric spell list. An ur-priest has access to any spell on the list and prepares those spells as a cleric, except that he does not pray for spells, he just takes them. An ur-priest casts spells as a cleric does, except that unlike a cleric, he does not have the ability to spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells, nor does he have domain spells or associated domain granted powers. He does not have restrictions on spells with alignments. To determine the caster level of an ur-priest, add the character's ur-priest levels to one-half of his levels in other spellcasting classes. (Any levels gained in the cleric class by an ex-cleric don't count.)

[Lightlawbliss]

Here's a new one: if you advance Ur-Priest casting with another class, you gain 1.5 caster levels per level, better than just staying in the class.

so you can get 9ths sooner?

[nedz]

Here's a new one: if you advance Ur-Priest casting with another class, you gain 1.5 caster levels per level, better than just staying in the class.

I don't think that this works. The PRCs which advance UP are not themselves spellcasting classes. Theurges don't even help here.

so you can get 9ths sooner?

No, we are talking about CL here.

[Fax Celestis]

I don't think that this works. The PRCs which advance UP are not themselves spellcasting classes. Theurges don't even help here.

If that's the case, that makes a lot of other things break. Craft Contingent Spell, for instance, has a prerequisite of "spellcaster level 11th", which would mean you'd have to have 11 levels in a base class to qualify.

[Dimers]

The Shatter spell auto-destroys nonmagical objects when the spell is cast as an AoE.

Creatures, when targeted directly, take damage.

Objects, when targeted directly, asdfailkjaisdou-0912u34on09189023l4kn

[404 auto-cucumber error; variable undefined]

Huh? "Alternatively, you can target shatter against a single solid object, regardless of composition, weighing up to 10 pounds per caster level." This comes directly after the paragraph on what happens to objects when targeted by AoE, so the same effect happens when targeted directly: "smashed into dozens of pieces by the spell."

The only dysfunction here is shattering ropes, globs of toothpaste, puddles of liquid water, and other non-rigid objects. What's a "piece" of a puddle? Not a significant issue, just linguistically wrong.

[nedz]

If that's the case, that makes a lot of other things break. Craft Contingent Spell, for instance, has a prerequisite of "spellcaster level 11th", which would mean you'd have to have 11 levels in a base class to qualify.

No it wouldn't. There are differences between Caster Level, Spellcaster Level and Levels in Spellcasting Classes — these can all have different values.