Dreamscarred Press Announces: Path of War Expanded

[deuxhero]

Is the bonus from Servants of the Secret Hymn against powers and PLAs effected by psi/magic transparency?

[Lord_Gareth]

Is the bonus from Servants of the Secret Hymn against powers and PLAs effected by psi/magic transparency?

It's not meant to be. Is additional wording necessary there?

EDIT: Just realized that might sound sarcastic, it's an honest question asking for your input.

[deuxhero]

Traditions are a new bonus source, so the transparency rules are silent on them so it should be mentioned.

Is the Cagebreaker bonus spell only?

[Snowbluff]

That in mind, I'm thus far hearing that the Cagebreakers and the Reverents might need some changing. I'm a little confused on the reports of the Quill bonus to saves being strong when no one batted an eyelash at an equivalent bonus to Fortitude in the previous book, but it's under consideration.

Oh, it's because the bonus is attached to a school that I'm interested in. Warlords have a crummy will save. Even with their secondary/tertiary stat to a save, they are behind on the RNG on will saves. They kind of have to have low Wis. A bonus to Will is also conspicuously missing from Bladecaster, IIRC. Grabbing a bonus to Will is a good idea.

[PsyBomb]

Been looking at how some of the allegiance bonuses interact with non-Initiators. Reverents of the Lance granted ability to attack inside of your Reach is going to be critical for a lot of area-control martial builds. Rebel Yell is also crazy good for anyone who doesn't routinely use their Swift (or, at least, not early on in the fight). Not sure if it's intended or not for that ability to gain the half-level benefit from non-initiators, but as written now nothing is stopping it.

[Lord_Gareth]

Not sure if it's intended or not for that ability to gain the half-level benefit from non-initiators, but as written now nothing is stopping it.

I...am not sure what this part means. The rebel yell's duration is based on character level. If you're talking about something else I confess to being confused now. I need more coffee.

[PsyBomb]

I...am not sure what this part means. The rebel yell's duration is based on character level. If you're talking about something else I confess to being confused now. I need more coffee.

No, you're right. For some reason I thought it was based on initiator levels instead, I'm the one who needs coffee. Original point stands.

[Elricaltovilla]

Snowbluff, are you tsundere for the bladecaster?

[Snowbluff]

Snowbluff, are you tsundere for the bladecaster?

What? Don't be ridiculous. Do you even know what you're taking about?
I've been trying to get in a game to demonstrate potential with multihit spells for a blaster build, considering that it's not good for more than that.

[stack]

I'm having fun imagining the descendants being responsible for the river kingdoms. Constant rising and falling of rulers, rebellions, etc, would be a perfect place for them to come in and...do the exact same thing. PoW kingmaker, anyone?

[Vhaidara]

I'm having fun imagining the descendants being responsible for the river kingdoms. Constant rising and falling of rulers, rebellions, etc, would be a perfect place for them to come in and...do the exact same thing. PoW kingmaker, anyone?

Elric is actually running one, and we just lost our ravenlord. Quickly, make a thing! Save our campaign!

[master4sword]

I agree with you that it would be nice to have more ways to swap schools.

Agreed. Right now, the only way to swap schools has RP strings attached (and alignment restrictions in some cases); it would be nice if we could customize our initiator's options without having to lock ourselves into working with a specific, predetermined organization/group/etc.

One thing I'm considering doing in my games is allowing players to swap one discipline of their choice (and it's associated class skill) freely - basically, swapping as if using a tradition but without the extra bonuses or strings.

[Milo v3]

Nothing wrong with not liking a thing. Though I do want to know what you don't like about them?

Basically it's all the attached fluff which generally doesn't fit my setting or my player's characters, when I just want my players to be able to swap one of their disciplines.

[Kaidinah]

That makes sense Milo. Some traditions are very unfriendly to being PCs in most kinds of campaigns. I do believe using a group like the Quills as "bad guys" for a urban campaign would be very interesting. As I said before, I like them because they fit into my setting. Of course the inverse should be just as valid.

[stack]

Elric is actually running one, and we just lost our ravenlord. Quickly, make a thing! Save our campaign!

I'm game, have him send me an invite.

In other business, what is the activation action for the timestop function of the God of The Hourglass stance of riven hourglass?

I love the high level counters of that discipline. Just had to say.

[Vhaidara]

Okay, so I have found something I want to try. A Warder who is a Lord of the Hourglass and a member of the Loyal Order of the Branded Waerloch. I feel that the combination of Riven Hourglass and Eternal Guardian would be an absolute blast to play with.

[Lord_Gareth]

Agreed. Right now, the only way to swap schools has RP strings attached (and alignment restrictions in some cases); it would be nice if we could customize our initiator's options without having to lock ourselves into working with a specific, predetermined organization/group/etc.

One thing I'm considering doing in my games is allowing players to swap one discipline of their choice (and it's associated class skill) freely - basically, swapping as if using a tradition but without the extra bonuses or strings.

There are plans to get a Trait around to swap a discipline without using a Tradition, for the record.

[stack]

I've been thinking a demon hand warlock with eternal guardian to curse everything. Gamla for the race to get the huge reach.

[Kaidinah]

I was going to make a gamla zweihander sentinel. Sounds like a fun way to protect the party. Though wow, demon hand warlock sounds like a lot of fun! I think the actual demon hand could be fluffed as some sinister Akashic goodness.

[Snowbluff]

Elric is actually running one, and we just lost our ravenlord. Quickly, make a thing! Save our campaign!

Oh man.

Basically it's all the attached fluff which generally doesn't fit my setting or my player's characters, when I just want my players to be able to swap one of their disciplines.

I agree. Quill and the other evil ones kind of relegate them to token evil teammate, which doesn't always work out.

There are plans to get a Trait around to swap a discipline without using a Tradition, for the record.

Can they have their individual fluff of an individual nature? Not anything constricting, just something like "you've been attuned to the elements."

[Milo v3]

Can they have their individual fluff of an individual nature? Not anything constricting, just something like "you've been attuned to the elements."

I took him to mean there'd be one trait, that lets you swap one discipline, rather than have a trait for each discipline.

[Lord_Gareth]

I took him to mean there'd be one trait, that lets you swap one discipline, rather than have a trait for each discipline.

This, with the fluff being "for whatever reason, your training is different from other members of your class."

[master4sword]

There are plans to get a Trait around to swap a discipline without using a Tradition, for the record.

Wonderful to hear!

[AGrinningCat]

Got to play with the Crimson Countess Harbinger last night. I'm on my phone so I can't do a full write up yet, but the lower levels of damage was a bit strong. Claim with the feat that makes them cursed means I can slap someone around with Mockery for 3d6+weapon damage+static damage+vitae bonus. My scythe lady was hitting around 30 points of damage a round at level 3.

The archetype is hella flavorful, but my buddy was a bit upset about being one shotted in one of our test duels.

Edit: that reminds me, can I claim a creature I already have claimed? The rules don't say either way.

[Vhaidara]

Remember that the only damage coming from CC in that is the Vitae bonus, which would partially be replaced by Dark Focus damage. Also consider that Dark Focus has a much stronger end game, and the CC gives up at will flight and teleportation (Grin News) as well as mobility through Ill Tidings.

[stack]

I presume the fiend's grip is intended to have a x2 critical threat?

And also be useful for building Spawn?

[AGrinningCat]

(Grin News)

DSP Is happy to announce the newest Harbinger Archetype: The happy bringer!

All in all, I'm really just thinking Mockery is overtuned for damage. 3d6 as a second level manuever is pretty hard hitting. At third level, my damage output is looking something like

To-Hit
BaB
1/2 Int mod
Str mod
+1/2 Vitae
+2 with maneuvers vs Claimed)
(With 4 int, 3 str, you're looking at a +11 to hit with maneuvers)

Damage
Weapon damage
1.5x Str bonus for 2handed (4 damage at +3 str)
+2 with Maneuvers vs Claimed
+1/2 Vitae (+1 at 3)
Stance damage (1d6 usually)
Maneuver Damage (3d6 vs cursed)

With a scythe you're packing 4d6+2d4+7 -- If you didn't have to move that turn, add an extra 3 from the Drain. If they were claimed since last turn, add an extra 1d4. Not counting those two, you're still looking at an average of 26 damage with that hit, or 31.5~ with her other abilities. Honestly I feel that Mockery is just strong for it's spot, but the Harbinger get's a lot of small perks that add up.

Does Vitae get spent? I would assume it did but on reading it it appears it doesn't.

[Ssalarn]

DSP Is happy to announce the newest Harbinger Archetype: The happy bringer!

All in all, I'm really just thinking Mockery is overtuned for damage. 3d6 as a second level manuever is pretty hard hitting. At third level, my damage output is looking something like

To-Hit
BaB
1/2 Int mod
Str mod
+1/2 Vitae
+2 with maneuvers vs Claimed)
(With 4 int, 3 str, you're looking at a +11 to hit with maneuvers)

Damage
Weapon damage
1.5x Str bonus for 2handed (4 damage at +3 str)
+2 with Maneuvers vs Claimed
+1/2 Vitae (+1 at 3)
Stance damage (1d6 usually)
Maneuver Damage (3d6 vs cursed)

With a scythe you're packing 4d6+2d4+7 -- If you didn't have to move that turn, add an extra 3 from the Drain. If they were claimed since last turn, add an extra 1d4. Not counting those two, you're still looking at an average of 26 damage with that hit, or 31.5~ with her other abilities. Honestly I feel that Mockery is just strong for it's spot, but the Harbinger get's a lot of small perks that add up.

Does Vitae get spent? I would assume it did but on reading it it appears it doesn't.

Let's see how 3rd level damage for a Two-Handed Fighter looks in comparison:

20 STR 14 DEX 12 CON 10 INT 13 WIS 8 CHA

Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Blind-Fight, Iron Will

Attack - 5 (STR) + 3 (BAB) + 1 (Weapon Focus) = +9, or +7 with PA
Damage - 10 (2xSTR) + 2d6 (greatsword).... average damage 17, 20 with PA. Definitely below the Harbinger.
A Slayer could potentially tag on an additional 4.5 avg damage, assuming he can sneak attack, and an extra +1 to hit, bringing it to +8 to-hit and 24.5 avg damage, which is a bit closer but that's still +3 to hit and 1.5 damage behind the Harbinger (probably more like 5 damage behind since sneak attack is fairly hard to set up)... Numbers are definitely high enough that the only classes that will be able to match up at that point are classes who compete using limited resources (spells or smites) and pet classes. Most of those limited resource classes won't be able to sustain that for long either given that the Harbinger has such a big lead on the to-hit; a Magus would have a lower to-hit than the Fighter or Slayer with damage comparable to the Harbinger when using Spellstrike & Spell Combat (or possibly much lower damage but a higher to-hit if he used a spell like true strike for Spellstrike), and he'll burn through that quick. Harbinger numbers probably need to be curbed just a smidge.

[Vhaidara]

Harbinger numbers probably need to be curbed just a smidge.

I think first you should look on either side of that. Mockery doesn't scale up at all, so that combo isn't going to maintain effectiveness. This could be a sweet spot for damage output.

[Ssalarn]

I think first you should look on either side of that. Mockery doesn't scale up at all, so that combo isn't going to maintain effectiveness. This could be a sweet spot for damage output.

It's a really sweet spot though. You're talking about numbers that are better than the numbers even the spellcasters are dropping, out-performing classes like the Magus and (I know, but I'm going to say it anyways because it's at a point where they're still strong) the Warpriest who have to burn limited resources just to get in the same ballpark. Like I noted, even a fully set up Slayer two-handing with Studied Strike and Sneak Attack isn't reaching the same amount of damage and to-hit bonuses. You've basically got to have a pet on the field with optimum positioning to match those numbers, and it's going to be a lot easier to kill a pet than stop the Harbinger.