Oradin Build Help

[Avalon2099]

So I am currently playing a level 16 Life Oracle in a friends game, I decided to play a healer as I wasnt sure how they played or what power level of healing they required, so I made a straight up Oracle, sadly this is really no fun as I am essentially a Healbot.

I have been given the green light to rebuild the character through the use of the retraining rules in Ultimate Campaign, I am interested in trying this Oradin build, if someone could help me out with a few ideas or one solid one with some detailed breakdown of what to take at what levels.

The character is an Angel Blooded Aasimar, so I figure lending himself to Paladin is a solid choice, Ive heard about Holy Vindicator and the like.

Appreciate all the help.

[Larkas]

After ACG, you can now play an Oradin without any levels in Paladin. Grab Divine Protection, Battle mystery and go to town.

[Avalon2099]

After ACG, you can now play an Oradin without any levels in Paladin. Grab Divine Protection, Battle mystery and go to town.

I dont follow, ACG? How do I grab these?

[grarrrg]

After ACG, you can now play an Oradin without any levels in Paladin. Grab Divine Protection, Battle mystery and go to town.

What you are suggesting is a replacement for an Oracle/Paladin multi-class.
What I believe he is looking for is an Oradin "healbot without the bot" type of build.

I dont follow, ACG? How do I grab these?

ACG is the newly released Advanced Class Guide.

Divine Protection is a feat that gives CHA to all Saves (unless you already have Divine Grace, then it's +1 to all).

There is no way to get off-Mystery Revelations, so you're either stuck with Life, or have to whole-hog switch over to another one.

[Xerlith]

With the the recent publishing of Path of War, I'm partial to suggest the Battle Templar prestige class. The 3rd level ability Martial Healing presents itself as a swift action healing so it may actually be a nice alternative to Oradin.


Cleric/Warlord1/Battle Templar

Nets you 7th level spells (nines at 20th level), in-combat healing and full energy channeling.

Domains are progressed by the Battle Templar, so I'm actually partial to Healing (Restoration), since it's a free empower on your cure spells.
Grabbing Martial Training I (Silver Crane) allows you to pick the discipline's maneuvers via Battle Templar.There are some decent healing ones.

Wait. There's the Silver Crane Endurance stance.
Meaning...
Oracle4/Warder1/Battle Templar 10 with Silver Crane Endurance Stance and Martial Power feat can be a viable alternative to the classic Paladin16/Oracle 4 that the Oradin normally is.

[Dyllan]

Well, now that everyone's suggested things other than what the OP asked, and nobody's actually given build advice, let me link this:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-minus-the-bot

That's a good place to start. Key thing is Fey Foundling, if allowed... that's your level 1 feat.

You need a number of levels of Oracle equal to the number of people you want to heal (other than yourself). So in a party of 4, 3 levels... in a party of 6, 5 levels. The rest should all be Paladin. If you choose Oracle as your favored class, you can cut this down a bit - you add +1/2 to your Oracle ability for one mystery (Life Link, specifically in this case), so with 4 levels or oracle, you can link up to 6 people. This does mean you're giving up favored class bonuses for Paladin though. That said, the favored class option for Aasimar Paladin sort of stinks, so you'd only be missing the Hit Point or Skill Point each level. If you're wanting to life link more than 3 characters (including animal companions, cohorts, or any NPC who travels with you, for instance), I'd take the favored class bonus to limit your Oracle levels. In a smaller party, make Paladin your favored class.

You obviously need the Life mystery, and I'd take Channel and Life Link as revelations. There's some choices for curses - remember that your non-Oracle levels count as half, so if you take 3 or 4 Oracle levels, you'll start with the curse at Oracle level 10. The Channel will be weak (2d6 most likely), but that's still 12d6 a day to everyone if you have a +5 Cha.

For Paladin, I'd suggest the Hospitaler - it slows down smites / day, but gives you channel energy that isn't tied to your lay on hands. Having some decent channels can really help out in a pinch (you are still the heal bot, and from time to time your life link won't be enough to keep up with damage - also, it's very efficient out of combat healing - you don't want to be healing with lay on hands out of combat).

Now that you have two pools of channel, seriously consider getting a Phalactery of Positive Channeling - adding 2d6 to every channel (that's an extra 28d6 healing a day if you have +5 cha).

Also, Bracers of the Merciful Knight is awesome - +2d6 and +2/day lay on hands.

You'll want Greater Mercy as soon as you get access to a Mercy (when that is depends on your build, but if you take Paladin levels first, that can be your level 3 feat). It adds 1d6 to lay on hands if you don't need to use a Mercy.

Past that, you have choices. You can optimize channeling (with Selective Channel and the feat to use multiple channels to do it as a move action... forget the name of that) or you can optimize combat (basic combat feats - there's lots of options there of course). Sadly, there isn't much feat support for lay on hands. Although, extra lay on hands is an option, but I'd think by level 16 (probably 12-13 levels of Paladin), you don't really need that.

[grarrrg]

Well, now that everyone's suggested things other than what the OP asked, and nobody's actually given build advice, let me link this:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-minus-the-bot

If you want to get technical, I already linked that , and by virtue of writing up the darn thing, I've already given advice.

Now that you have two pools of channel, seriously consider getting a Phalactery of Positive Channeling - adding 2d6 to every channel (that's an extra 28d6 healing a day if you have +5 cha).

If you're allowed to Craft things, remember that you can 'double up' and add +CHA to the thing (or is it cheaper the other way around? cost multiplier of 1.5 to the 2nd bonus I think...)

Past that, you have choices. You can optimize channeling (with Selective Channel and the feat to use multiple channels to do it as a move action... forget the name of that)

With a large, higher level group it might be well worth it to grab Selective Channel and Quick Channeling, then you can occasionally pop one off in the middle of a fight and heal everyone for a fair amount.

[andreww]

What you are suggesting is a replacement for an Oracle/Paladin multi-class.
What I believe he is looking for is an Oradin "healbot without the bot" type of build.



ACG is the newly released Advanced Class Guide.

Divine Protection is a feat that gives CHA to all Saves (unless you already have Divine Grace, then it's +1 to all).

There is no way to get off-Mystery Revelations, so you're either stuck with Life, or have to whole-hog switch over to another one.

Actually you no longer need to take the Life Mystery. The Spirit Guide Archetype allows you to grab a Shaman Spirit and it offers you access to all of the Shaman Spirit types and their associated spells and a number of the abilities. The Life Spirit will give you a bunch of spells you want as well as Channel. You also get a single Hex from the spirit. You lose out on life link but 5hp per person per round will be irrelevant at level 16 and in exchange you get to take a decent mystery with much better revelations.

[grarrrg]

Actually you no longer need to take the Life Mystery. The Spirit Guide Archetype allows you to grab a Shaman Spirit and it offers you access to all of the Shaman Spirit types and their associated spells and a number of the abilities. The Life Spirit will give you a bunch of spells you want as well as Channel. You also get a single Hex from the spirit. You lose out on life link but 5hp per person per round will be irrelevant at level 16 and in exchange you get to take a decent mystery with much better revelations.

Having only perused the Shaman I never actually _read_ the Spirit abilities before.
And I must say that Shaman Life Link SUCKS!
"if the bonded creature's hit points are reduced to –5 or fewer, it heals 5 hit points and the shaman..."
So it only kicks in if they are almost already dead?
And there's a good chance that if they're below -5 that they're already dead anyway?
And it will never really get them on their feet again, as the best it can do is heal a -5 up to a 0?

Every other part of that ability is practically a copy/paste from Oracle Life Link.
Is this an intended change?
Did they try to 'clean up the wording, keep it the same' and just failed horribly?

Heck, having basically written a guide on how to use Life Link I can say that it is NOT in need of this kind of nerf.
The biggest "abuse" I could find was pairing Life Link with a Ring of Regeneration to get _slow_ all-day healing for everyone. But that isn't really affordable until around level 10-ish, when wands/scrolls/cohorts/whatever are fairly plentiful anyway.
(technically, the biggest abuse is Life Link and Boots of the Earth. But those Boots are either WAY undercosted, or they missed a line of "Fast Healing _only during combat_" or something)
I could see something along the lines of "triggers if creature below half health", but -5?!

I also have to laugh at how horribly bad the Greater Spirit ability is.
Standard action to move 1/2 speed and touch up to 6 creatures to automatically Stabilize them.
This ability comes online at level eight at the earliest for a Shaman (FIFTEEN for a Spirit Guide Oracle).
How is this a thing you actually want to do? WHEN is this a thing you actually want to do?


Anyway...I can maybe see the potential for Spirit Guide on a higher level Oradin.
Really, the only things worth using from Shaman-Life is getting Channel Energy bolted onto a different Mystery, and the extra spells known.
2 of the Hexes are "offensive" and block opponents healing.
1 of the Hexes raises the limit on Cure Spell Caster level bonus (which the Life Oracle already had access too, and it was underwhelming there as well).
Life Sight might be more fun, if it wasn't Rounds=Level/day.
The final reason why this is "eh" is because the Spirit Guide trades away their 3rd, 7th, and 15th Revelations.
That means without Dual-Cursed or Extra Revelation feat you get one Revelation at level 1, and then have to wait until level _11_ for your next one.
So even taking a different Mystery means you're stuck with _one_ Revelation for 10+ levels.

Perhaps the best use is the reverse of what you suggested...instead of going Non-Life Oracle using the Spirit Guide to gain Channeling, what about going Life Oracle, grabbing Channeling as your 1st Revelation then using the Spirit Guide to grab whatever abilities/spells you want for the day?