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2014-09-24, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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OOTS, minimalism, and art history
Seen on facebook . I'm going to have to educate myself just to get the joke.
Anyone out there want to explain it to a clueless computer science major?
Still, just based on the strip ... I have to wonder whether OOTS and XKCD have a place in art culture as a new style. Call it "minimalist pop art", in which fine detail and realism take a back seat to the story.
At the very least, it's enough of a trend that PVP online can make fun of it.
...
Someone remind me why Rich Burlew deliberately chose stick figure art as the medium for his story? As anyone who's seen his rendering of Elan's mentor and the mummy knows, he didn't have to do it that way. But he didn't just stay with stick figures -- he's been deliberately making the art more sophisticated, until we get things like Belkar's album cover.
Why choose a minimalist form to convey the story? And, once a minimalist form is chosen, why continue to step it up, deliberately challenging yourself to see just what you can express with this metaphor?
For most web comic artists, I suspect the choice of minimalism or mechanima is a pragmatic one -- a lot of webcomic authors can't draw well. Minimalism opens the field for people who would otherwise be locked out by the technical demands of the medium. What, then, does a skilled artist gain from minimalism?
Respectfully,
Brian P."Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
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2014-09-24, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
Well, OOTS started as a joke a day strip, so im guessing that Rich chose to use the style he did because it was easy and convenient rather for some deep storytelling purpose. Im fairly confidant that were Rich to want to, he could create a masterpiece every panel, but frankly that sounds like a lot of work, and even now 99% of the story is told through dialogue, with the pictures being supplementary.
As for the link itself, my takeaway as a fellow clueless Comp Sci major is that pretentious artists are scary and strange.“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2014-09-24, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2004
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Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
As Keltest said, when your goal is a joke a day that appeals to specifically a gaming audience, how much time are you going to invest?
But the other aspect is that a minimalist style can convey a lot. Arguably minimal faces invite the reader to actively empathize more than detailed faces, so the effort of more detail does not automatically buy you as much as you might think. If you want to see more on that idea, I cannot recommend enough the book Understanding Comics: The Invisible Art by Scott McCloud. It is a classic.Last edited by Snails; 2014-09-24 at 01:05 PM.
I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of goblinkind!
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2014-09-24, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
But the other aspect is that a minimalist style can convey a lot.
So it's possible that the minimalism , ironically enough, makes the story more immersive. The more details you render on-panel, the more things there are to get wrong, which can shatter a nitpicking suspension of disbelief. But when there AREN'T any details to speak of, it essentially tells the critical side of the brain that it's okay to calm down and just enjoy the story.
Respectfully,
Brian P.Last edited by pendell; 2014-09-24 at 01:16 PM.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
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2014-09-24, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2004
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- The 100 hurricane swamp
Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
It was a look at the different styles of art.
Was it supposed to be humor or just a very good layman's visual explanation?
Why choose a minimalist form to convey the story? And, once a minimalist form is chosen, why continue to step it up, deliberately challenging yourself to see just what you can express with this metaphor?
You can a similar progression with both Sluggy Freelance and Schlock Mercenary, both started out very rough and ugly artwise, and both have gained in artistic skill over the years (15 years for both I think).
EDIT: Schlock Mercenary hit 14 this year and Sluggy is 17 years running.Last edited by evileeyore; 2014-09-24 at 07:52 PM.
EvilEeyore AntiSocialite
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2014-09-25, 04:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
Tut-tut tut. Mr. Burlew is an Art major and could definitely draw (also worked as a graphic artist). Stick figures were a conscious choice of style he did to emphasize the joke-a-day style. Or something like that, I *just* read that bit of commentary in War and XPs, but damned if I remember it verbatim. I'll have to check at home.
He also mentioned that the style came into its own for the big battle scenes where he needed to have a lot of stuff going on.
The advancement of the art in OOTS is again IIRC as said by Rich something he did to push himself, to keep it interesting. He does come form the the graphics field after all so it's not surprising he tries to push the limits of stick-art.
Mr. Tayler (Schlock) has a degree in music composition and worked in the computer engineering field so it's kinda natural that he'd start out a bit rougher. Mr. Abrams interestingly is a trained comic/graphic artist but started working as a webdesigner. But according to Wikipedia was just doing a rougher quickly draw comic at first, because that web-stuff will quickly blow over surely.
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2014-09-25, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2004
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- The 100 hurricane swamp
Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
I said "My guess". It's not like I did any research in any way.
Just noting that in this case (as in the other two) there has been a marked increase in the quality of the art over the years. As such I figured it was natural none of the three (I did actually know Mr Taylor wasn't an artist at all in the beginning) started as artists.EvilEeyore AntiSocialite
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2014-09-25, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
The Giant has posted drawings from 2002, and explained how they could be considered direct ancestors to OOTS, so that's not the case.
The intro to Dungeon Crawlin' Fools explains the original choice a bit. To summarize, the comic was added for the site, and his stick figures were already a defining feature on the site because they were well-received as choose-able avatars for the forums; so it seemed a natural extension to use the same stick figure style in the comic itself.FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2014-09-26, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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- Bamako
Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
I see the OOTS style, certainly post DCF, as an extreme form of ligne clair / klare lijn.
I also wouldn't consider XKCD as having the same style as OOTS, it lacks the play with colour and the background work of the OOTS. They only have stick figures in common and even those are quite different.
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2014-09-26, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
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Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
I think it was a matter of efficiency. The style wasn't born for the comic - it was the way he made miniatures for his D&D campaigns. He just adapted it to the comic and occasionally updated it. (if I am wrong, please correct me, I am speaking from what I remember.)
The decision of drawing it himself probably had a role in choosing a relatively fast art style he had already developed. Another comic from him I've seen (Five Foot Step) also has a relatively streamlined look.
I have the impression the Giant doesn't like clutter and has a very strong perception of what is needed for the story, what is needed for the world, what is needed for showing the flow of the story, what is needed for good identification of single elements, and what is needed for good composition, but avoids whatever comes in that doesn't help for these.Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
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2014-10-06, 08:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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2014-10-09, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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2014-10-09, 07:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2014-10-09, 07:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
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2014-10-09, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
Ok, perhaps that was miscommunication on my part. Obviously I singled them out in that way, but I didn't do it in such a way as to seem that I considered only art majors capable of pretentiousness. Given the topic of the conversation however, im not exactly going to proclaim a fear of, say, prideful electrical engineers, am I?
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2014-10-09, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
I find it scary and strange that you are singling out Keltest for a joke. Do I detect a hint of pretentiousness?
Originally Posted by OoTSLast edited by brian 333; 2014-10-09 at 08:19 PM.
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2014-10-10, 12:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2004
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- The 100 hurricane swamp
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2014-10-14, 08:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- White Sands Missile Range
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Re: OOTS, minimalism, and art history
If I recall, Rich said he used to do quick stick figure drawings as minis for his game table, and the simple art style was what he used to quickly generate NPCs for a battlefield.
If you look at the pregenerated avatars, there is a Solaris Knight (or something like that), and I asked of it was a prestige class from some splat book. Rich himself replied, and said it was from his own tabletop campaign. I wonder how many of the pregenerated avatars had a place on his table.
If you look around, you can find Rich's Five Foot Steps comic. He used a more conventional art style for that one.Thanks to Ceika (X2), Yeril, Holammer and Dr. Bath for the Avatars!
New Avatar, new form of self-destruction! Ceika is Beyond Awesome!