Stanley's intellegence (could spoil things)

[EvilElitest]

Yeah i know what everyone is thinking? I will tell you right now this is not an "Elan is intelligent" "Belkar is good" "Miko is not insane" thread. This is an analyzes on Stanley's intelligence. And no, not from a D&D standpoint as this is not a D&D comic.
I would like to say right now, i have not visited the Erfworld forum at all. This is my first post here (hooray). So i don't know any details the others have figured out. I am an OOTS person with something to say.
I am not going to make a any comments about what i like/don't like about Erfworld until comic 51, where i think i have read enough to make a judgment. That being said, my favorite character is Stanley.

I don't know anything about the "good guys", i dislike Mr. one eye, i am still uninterested in wanda (I will wait until she gets more screen time) and i like Parson. Now i briefly looked though a few threads before posting and i found that their is a vast underestimate of Stanely int. Now i would like to speak up in defense.

He may be losing (really badly) but he did conquer them in the first place. That says something right their. Even with good generals and Wanda (plus many other minions he must have lost) he still was able to keep his army together and conquer a large amount of land. I don't know details about these 11 cities, but even if they are all city states that says something. He also, despite not having the hammer and being a midget, took control of Gobwin Knob. Now he was winning until he found the hammer. I don't think he is so much dumb as uncaring.

He does not care about victory very much from my understanding. If he did, why did he not keep up his winning streak? The only bungle that Wanda mentions is his searching for the A-hammer. That say something as well. He must care more about find gaining artifacts than winning the war. Now it makes sense to lure his rival into the city to take the pliers, if he values them more than his men. He also has the Dwagons at his command because he is attuned to his artifact. The Dwagon (as can be imagined) make a difference in battle. Now we don't know what the pliers do to one who is attuned to them, but they have not been attuned. Even without the attainments they are pretty powerful. Now if they have an effect like the hammer's dwagons, the lost of land and solders might be worth it if Stanley gains a large amount of powerful creatures like Dwagons.

Now when it comes to priories, this just make Stanley careless. I presume he has been spending the time when his army was losing trying to find out more about the Arkentools. If he does get the pliers and gets attuned to them he could not only crush the enemy forces and gain great power. Croak (or is it uncroak?) all of their bodies and hey. He has an army again and no oppersition. Now he is taken Parson in as an after thought.

I think that while Stanely may not be a great taticion, he is not dumb. Lets look at his dumb actions

1. Losing elven cities. Could be a gamble. Can't say without details.
2. Not caring about his army. Is he to busy.
3. Simply saying "Chose the most handsome" for warlord. I think that is more "i don't care" than dumb. Careless though.
4. Not giving Wanda enough money. Depends. If he did it because he was cheap then yes it was dumb. If he did it because he knows that he will need the money in the future, than no. Bear in mind, he does not really care about the army at current.
5. Smashing nuts. Maybe wants to test the powers of his hammer.
6. Not respecting Parson. Not hard.
7. Bad jokes. Yeah that i can't argue.
8. Is outnumber 15 to 1. Need details.

He has shown signs of being a bad tactician, but he did capture Zamussels without any help. I think he is more a violent sociopath who does not care about the lives of his men. Your thoughts?

from,
EE

[factotum]

You're making an implicit assumption that Stanley had to conquer those 11 cities to start with, but that is nowhere stated (or even implied) in the comic to date. It is entirely possible he inherited control of them from some other, more capable, ruler, and has since lost them due to his own actions. I think it's made pretty clear that Wanda, at the very least, thinks Stanley is to blame for their losses--remember her saying that she wasn't going to promote another pretty boy from the ranks just so he could lose the final battle?

[EvilElitest]

You're making an implicit assumption that Stanley had to conquer those 11 cities to start with, but that is nowhere stated (or even implied) in the comic to date. It is entirely possible he inherited control of them from some other, more capable, ruler, and has since lost them due to his own actions. I think it's made pretty clear that Wanda, at the very least, thinks Stanley is to blame for their losses--remember her saying that she wasn't going to promote another pretty boy from the ranks just so he could lose the final battle?

Wanda said they have not won a battle sence he started searching for the Arkentools. Therefor he must have been fighting a war even before the started searching. And bear in mind, even though hey lost 11 cities and the capital is under seige, he is still in power. His people did not repel and he still has some power. Now he could be taken a gamble and/or just not care about the war. I am not saying his is not careless or that he is a big picture person. I just don't think this is a complete fool.
from,
EE

[Maratanos]

His people do not rebel, not because he is competent (he isn't), but because he is a violent sociopath ruling with an iron fist of death.

[Jacob_Gallagher]

Parson: 'I thought everyone in the world was coming to kill us.'
Stanley: 'That alone is a sign of greatness. When everyone is out to get you,you must be doing something right.'

Stanley has the intelligence of a brick wall. I'm surprised Parson didn't stand and tell him that Stanley needs him more than Parson needs Stanley- because Stanley knows he's screwed, so killing Parson really isn't an option, and thus Parson could do whatever the hell he likes and face little, if any, repercussion. He might be able to just stab him in his sleep.

[mockingbyrd7]

I think I have a compromise, that allows him to be smart and stupid at the same time:

STANLEY THE TOOL
Lawful Evil (?)

Str: Unknown (he's short, probably fairly low)
Dex: Unknown (probably average+)
Con: Unknown (probably average)
Charisma: 14ish (seems fairly persuasive and has a lot of control)
Intelligence: 17+ (very smart and stuff, large vocabulary)
Wisdom: 6ish (has no head for tactics, rushes into things, often speaks his mind too early, very gung-ho, and rarely shows his gleaming intelligence).

At least that's my perception. Does that clear things up?

[kpenguin]

I concur with Mockingbyrd. Stanley shows a great deal of knowledge and the philosophical musings of Erworld 32 tell me that he is fairly smart. He does, however, act childish and without common sense. That tells me that he is low in wisdom. He is, to me, like a very smart but immature child.

[Tussy the Druid]

I think mockingbyrd and kpenguin summed up what i was thinking.

[Ave]

17+ is a bit overrated. Just because he can talk better than Thog, it doesn't mean he got more than 12.
Heh, i bet Wanda is around 16, and Stanley is definitely not as bright.

[EvilElitest]

Parson: 'I thought everyone in the world was coming to kill us.'
Stanley: 'That alone is a sign of greatness. When everyone is out to get you,you must be doing something right.'

That just means he is powerhungry, an egomanic, and mad. His goals are different from those of a logical person, but he is still quite smart. As mentioned before, low wisdome (i am going to agrue with that) but fair int.

I'm surprised Parson didn't stand and tell him that Stanley needs him more than Parson needs Stanley- because Stanley knows he's screwed, so killing Parson really isn't an option,

Not true. Stanley does not value parson. Parson has not done anything impressive as yet. Sure killing Parson would be a waste of money. And they would lose the battle, but apperently Stanley does not care.

and thus Parson could do whatever the hell he likes and face little, if any, repercussion. He might be able to just stab him in his sleep.

He can try, but he would most likely be killed. He also has to obey Stanley and killing him (if he can pull it off) would just leave him ether dead or stranded in a strange world.

from,
EE

[factotum]

Wanda said they have not won a battle sence he started searching for the Arkentools. Therefor he must have been fighting a war even before the started searching.

It doesn't mean anything of the kind. Wanda's statement could easily be taken to mean "We haven't won a battle since you started this stupid war!"--there is nothing in it to imply battles were being fought BEFORE he started his search for the Arkentools.

Anyway, I agree with the analysis above--Stanley might well be quite intelligent, but he shows absolutely no grasp of common sense. (A failing of many quite intelligent people, I should add ).

[EvilElitest]

It doesn't mean anything of the kind. Wanda's statement could easily be taken to mean "We haven't won a battle since you started this stupid war!"--there is nothing in it to imply battles were being fought BEFORE he started his search for the Arkentools.

We have not won a battle since you became searching for the Arkentools. That is basiclly Wanda said. If they had not won a battle in the entire war, then why not say something like "We have not won a battle since this war started." or "We have not won a battle in the entire war". Hell, the fact that he has an army left must mean he has some orginaztion skills.

Anyway, I agree with the analysis above--Stanley might well be quite intelligent, but he shows absolutely no grasp of common sense. (A failing of many quite intelligent people, I should add ).[/QUOTE]

While i think he has some basic (and i use basic in the simplest form of the word) amount of common sense, i pretty much agree with this
from,
EE

[Chikin'Soup]

Let's presume he was fighting before the quest for the tools.
Then he finds the Arkenhammer, isntantly he annouces his plan to "collect them all" tm.

If everyone is fighting each other, then some guy yells that he plans to gain ultimate power with comicily oversized tools, woulden't you wanna stop him?

This fits with Ansom saying "I realize that an alience this extensive is a hardship to all of our sides... It will be worth it, to end him."

[EvilElitest]

Makes sense
from,
EE

[SteveMB]

If everyone is fighting each other, then some guy yells that he plans to gain ultimate power with comicily oversized tools, woulden't you wanna stop him?

If gathering all of the Arkentools would give unstoppable power (or if the Erfworlders believe this to be true whether it actually is or not), stopping Stanley would be a high priority even if he were a wise and reasonable ruler. (Of course, it's an even higher priority given Stanley as he actually is.)

[EvilElitest]

If gathering all of the Arkentools would give unstoppable power (or if the Erfworlders believe this to be true whether it actually is or not), stopping Stanley would be a high priority even if he were a wise and reasonable ruler. (Of course, it's an even higher priority given Stanley as he actually is.)

We have seen just some of the power from only 1 Arkentool. And that was able to rally this massive army. If Stanley gets two, then maybe he does not even need his own army.
from,
EE

[Demented]

Five dwagons do not a massive army make.
However, they do a massive army unmake.

[EvilElitest]

Five dwagons do not a massive army make.
However, they do a massive army unmake.

Words of wisdome there
from,
EE

[Silverlocke980]

I'd have to agree with kpenguin and mockingbyrd7- Stanley's intelligence is sky-high. He's a philosophical debater who knows why he is doing the things he does and can explain it in high-flown terms.

What he doesn't have is the wisdom score given to lemmings who are about to jump off a cliff. Stanley needs Parson because Parson has enough common sense to keep Stanley from diving headfirst into a pool of acid just because an Arkentool is at the bottom.

Stanley's fairly smart. He's just a jerk who completely lacks any common sense or courtesy at all.

[kpenguin]

Stanley's fairly smart. He's just a jerk who completely lacks any common sense or courtesy at all.

Does the courtesy part go into a low Charisma? He's fairly unilkeable. That he doesn't have a lot of allies/loyal troops compared to Ansom means something about his likeability.

[Innis Cabal]

17+ is a bit overrated. Just because he can talk better than Thog, it doesn't mean he got more than 12.
Heh, i bet Wanda is around 16, and Stanley is definitely not as bright.

int is based off of an iq score. 10 being the standard for humans in D&D, thus 100 for a human's IQ, though this is not a hard and fast rule, it has been mentioned in several publications

[factotum]

Does the courtesy part go into a low Charisma? He's fairly unilkeable. That he doesn't have a lot of allies/loyal troops compared to Ansom means something about his likeability.

This world is a wargame, not D&D. Leaders in wargames don't need high charisma scores--look at Parson himself! Also, the main reason Stanley is a bit short of troops is because he keeps losing battles and thus men, as far as we can see (Wanda's comment that they were down to less than 200 living men implied it was all the lost battles that had led to that situation).

[EvilElitest]

Just read part 33. Ok i am now very doubtful about his int now. Tatics are unimportant? Anyways by D&D standards he is quite smart, but AWFUL wisdom and Chrisma.
from,
EE

[KillerCardinal]

Just read part 33. Ok i am now very doubtful about his int now. Tatics are unimportant? Anyways by D&D standards he is quite smart, but AWFUL wisdom and Chrisma.
from,
EE

Actually, he didn't say unimportant. He said it didn't matter. Close to the same, admittedly, but not quite. I think he says they don't matter because he believes that he is destined to win, and something will make that happen. Not quite unintelligent, but a tad naive in my opinion.

At least thats my read on that.

[nooblade]

This makes me think "wizards" even though Stanley probably isn't one. A (roleplayed) wizard (or a regular pc even) knows next to nothing about maintaining an army, but acts a lot like Stanley when they try. It isn't necessarily about the ability scores. The main characters are like the pcs, everything they don't care to go through gets taken care of to make the game flow.

That doesn't mean he's above or below average intelligence. He just "knows what he wants". Making Wanda cast the spell was most likely pure greed, which doesn't have much to do with intelligence.

[Tokiko Mima]

Stanley is certainly an interesting head case. I get the sense that he's quite used to having people doubt him. Whenever he speaks, he's always looking for validation from the person he's speaking too, and trying to make sure they listen to him. Obviously he has a Napolean complex to boot, but some of the choices he's made make me really wonder if he deserves to succeed at all.

For one, Stanley's treatment of Parson is deplorable: and I don't mean on a level with being mannerly and nice. Parson is a warlord he summoned from another world, and is now bound to follow commands while he's here. While Stanley was 'educating him' and giving Parson the background he needs to win Stanley's battles for him, he was nothing but insulting and demeaning the entire time (your names for things are stupid, your humor is terrible, you're too dumb to get my jokes, you can't see how great Stanley is, etc.) That's not how you treat people that you want to do their best job.

Sure Parson will do his job for Stanley (he has no choice), but wouldn't he be a much more motivated Warlord if he was treated with a little respect beyond a 'winning is your job' kiss off? I think if we understood Stanley's contempt for military tacticians we might see why his other warlords always fare so poorly. Parson is Stanley's last hope, and while Parson's life is on the line *now* just as much as Stanley's life is, normally it's good to give a carrot with a stick. There's no reason at all for Parson to want to help Stanley, aside from the spell compelling him to do so.

[SteveMB]

Stanley is certainly an interesting head case. I get the sense that he's quite used to having people doubt him.

Used to people expressing their doubts to his face, not so much....

[Tokiko Mima]

Used to people expressing their doubts to his face, not so much....

Maybe not recently, but he has the attitude of a person that has been picked on a lot in the past for whatever reason.

If he was confident that he wasn't evil, there's no reason to blow up at Parson's casual appraisel of his army's 'evilness.' It even came with a nod of approval for 'bad-guys' from Parson, after all. My guess is that Stanley took it as an insult because he's been insulted that way before. Basically, he's using anger to shield himself from appearing uncertain or because he can't bring himself to fully disagree.

I noticed that while he said that there is no "good" and "evil," there is "holy" and "unholy" (arguing semantics: this is the same thing, Stanley), then says he's destined for greatness, and he's going to win but he needs Parson to win so Parson can live (for now). So I'm guessing that the entire point of that fit of rage was to say to Parson "I want to kill you but I can't because I need you." Again, not exactly a motivating statement to a brand new warlord, but it does give a hint of why he goes through so many of them.

[EvilElitest]

Stanley is certainly an interesting head case. I get the sense that he's quite used to having people doubt him. Whenever he speaks, he's always looking for validation from the person he's speaking too, and trying to make sure they listen to him. Obviously he has a Napolean complex to boot, but some of the choices he's made make me really wonder if he deserves to succeed at all.

He has an inferority complex. It makes somebody very senstive about a certain thing they feel inferoir about. I get the impression that Stanely's height is one thing he is senstive about. He does not like people to talk about it. His leadership skills are something else. He also apperently does not like people comparing him to his rival.

For one, Stanley's treatment of Parson is deplorable:

Not really if you considered Stanley as the villian. he has not hurt Parson in any way, only threaten him a few times and has allowed him to live. He has more been rude thant cruel.

Parson is a warlord he summoned from another world,

And Stanley is not sure if that is true. He is a "Giant Potato Man". How does this guy look like a warlord? I think that Stanley expects something more impressive, and Parson has not done anything like that. In fact, Parson has been pretty rude by Stanley's standard (meaning that he has stood up to him to an excent). Stanely does not understand Parson's humor and it comes off as strange.

and is now bound to follow commands while he's here. While Stanley was 'educating him' and giving Parson the background he needs to win Stanley's battles for him, he was nothing but insulting and demeaning the entire time

Stanely is a warlord who needs to assert control. Parson is a sarcastic loser who is great at battle plans and has nothing to lose

(your names for things are stupid,

Well consider this. People insult others for grammer all the time. Stanely is not the most open person, so i think he is just insulting other cultures. Rude but not cruel

your humor is terrible, you're too dumb to get my jokes, you can't see how great Stanley is, etc.)

Stanely suffer from an inferority complex. That is to be expected.

That's not how you treat people that you want to do their best job.

As stanely sees it, He dies, Parson dies.

Sure Parson will do his job for Stanley (he has no choice), but wouldn't he be a much more motivated Warlord if he was treated with a little respect beyond a 'winning is your job' kiss off?

Stanely does not want Parson to get any ideas off independence. He needs Parson to work for him, but as yet Parson has done nothing to impressive him.

I think if we understood Stanley's contempt for military tacticians we might see why his other warlords always fare so poorly.

I'll Agree.

Parson is Stanley's last hope, and while Parson's life is on the line *now* just as much as Stanley's life is, normally it's good to give a carrot with a stick.

There is, if Parson want to leave, he needs Stanley's help. As far as he knows. Parson is desperate, he has no choice.

[/QUOTE]
There's no reason at all for Parson to want to help Stanley, aside from the spell compelling him to do so.[/QUOTE]

Enjoyment. Parson lives for war and still seems to think that he is in a different reality.
from,
EE

[Flakey]

Tatics are unimportant?

Actually, he didn't say unimportant. He said it didn't matter. Close to the same, admittedly, but not quite.

In many table top games, and a few computer ones (Civ), tatics indeed do not matter at all. They are all about strategy. I would not use this as defining Stanely's int until we know more about how the combat system works.