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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default MTG quick question

    If a creature has gift of immortality on it (creature comes back if it dies), does killing it with disintegrate/annihilating fire(remove instead of killing it) get around the bringing it back from the dead?
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    Default Re: MTG quick question

    Yes.

    Gift of Immortality specifies "dies", ie; is sent to the graveyard game area due to a "destroy" effect or by taking terminal damage.

    It will not trigger if the card leaves the play area for other reasons, or enters a different area of play. Such examples include Removed From The Game (also known as being Exiled), being Sacrificed, or by Phasing out of play.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2014-11-16 at 03:58 AM.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: MTG quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Yes.

    Gift of Immortality specifies "dies", ie; is sent to the graveyard game area due to a "destroy" effect or by taking terminal damage.

    It will not trigger if the card leaves the play area for other reasons, or enters a different area of play. Such examples include Removed From The Game (also known as being Exiled), being Sacrificed, or by Phasing out of play.
    Hmm, wouldn't it still trigger if the creature was sacrificed? I haven't played Magic since they changed lots of the terminology, but a quick glance at the comprehensive rules simply says:
    700.4. The term dies means “is put into a graveyard from the battlefield.”
    It doesn't specify that it has to be due to lethal damage or a destroy effect, so I'd have thought anything that caused the creature to move from the Battlefield/In Play zone to the Graveyard zone would cause Gift of Immortality to trigger.

    You are of course right that any other zone changes like RFG/Exile wouldn't cause Gift to trigger. Phasing wouldn't trigger it, but the aura would phase out with the creature and would then phase back in still attached to it on the next turn.
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    Default Re: MTG quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebon_Drake View Post
    Hmm, wouldn't it still trigger if the creature was sacrificed? I haven't played Magic since they changed lots of the terminology, but ....
    Umm.... Good question. I must admit I'm somewhat unpracticed in the recent ruleset too, so I'll just agree with you.

    On reflection, I might be thinking of a particular card now allowing Sacrifice effects rather than a ruling, but I haven't the faintest idea what that is.
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: MTG quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Umm.... Good question. I must admit I'm somewhat unpracticed in the recent ruleset too, so I'll just agree with you.

    On reflection, I might be thinking of a particular card now allowing Sacrifice effects rather than a ruling, but I haven't the faintest idea what that is.
    You might be thinking of a replacement effect like Regeneration, or maybe Indestructible - they won't stop a creature from going to the graveyard through sacrificing. I had a look at the rules for Sacrifice too (what? it's slow day...) and it says:
    701.14. Sacrifice
    701.14a To sacrifice a permanent, its controller moves it from the battlefield directly to its owner’s
    graveyard. A player can’t sacrifice something that isn't a permanent, or something that’s a
    permanent he or she doesn’t control. Sacrificing a permanent doesn't destroy it, so regeneration
    or other effects that replace destruction can’t affect this action.

    The last line threw me a bit, but Gift of Immortality is a triggered ability (when this happens, do this) rather than a replacement effect (if this would happen, do this instead) so I'd think it should still apply.
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    Brother Oni's Avatar

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    Default Re: MTG quick question

    Gift of Immortality would trigger if you sacrificed the attached creature with the sole exception of a token creature as tokens simply vanish if they leave the battlefield.

    There's also a small window between the creature returning to play and the end step where doing something to the creature (bouncing/exiling/killing/phasing/etc) will stop the enchantment returning to play (or rather it comes back into play, can't find the creature thus fizzles).

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    Default Re: MTG quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    Gift of Immortality would trigger if you sacrificed the attached creature with the sole exception of a token creature as tokens simply vanish if they leave the battlefield.

    There's also a small window between the creature returning to play and the end step where doing something to the creature (bouncing/exiling/killing/phasing/etc) will stop the enchantment returning to play (or rather it comes back into play, can't find the creature thus fizzles).
    Token would trigger Gift, but there's nothing for the gift to bring back. I know it's a bit of a pointless quibble in this case, but it is important to remember that tokens do trigger leaves effects effects.

    Note that if you kill the creature in an end step, the gift won't return until the next end step, so you can use an instant to kill the creature in your opponent's turn and then use a sorcery to kill it permanently on your turn.
    Last edited by Androgeus; 2014-11-16 at 10:03 PM.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: MTG quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    Token would trigger Gift, but there's nothing for the gift to bring back. I know it's a bit of a pointless quibble in this case, but it is important to remember that tokens do trigger leaves effects effects.
    Sorry, yes, that's what I meant. A quick question, would Gift then re-enter the battlefield during the end step before fizzling or would the lack of a creature to bring back cause it to fizzle at that step? I only ask since some things trigger on an enchantment entering play, which Gift would do in the former case but not the latter.

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    Default Re: MTG quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebon_Drake View Post
    You might be thinking of a replacement effect like Regeneration, or maybe Indestructible - they won't stop a creature from going to the graveyard through sacrificing.
    Regen, that's the one. It took a surprisingly long amount of time to deduce that a Regen'd creature does not in fact leave the battlefield. Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    A quick question, would Gift then re-enter the battlefield during the end step before fizzling or would the lack of a creature to bring back cause it to fizzle at that step? I only ask since some things trigger on an enchantment entering play, which Gift would do in the former case but not the latter.
    Yes, it would return and fizzle. Similarly, although the token will disappear from the graveyard, it does still "enter" it for the purpose of "goes to graveyard" triggers - Blade of the Bloodchief, for an example off the top of my head, has this specification.
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    Default Re: MTG quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    Sorry, yes, that's what I meant. A quick question, would Gift then re-enter the battlefield during the end step before fizzling or would the lack of a creature to bring back cause it to fizzle at that step? I only ask since some things trigger on an enchantment entering play, which Gift would do in the former case but not the latter.
    The gifts will try to re enter during the end step, but as there is nothing for it to attach to it remains in the graveyard so nothing will trigger.
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    Default Re: MTG quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    or by Phasing out of play.
    A permanent that phases out does NOT change any zones. "phased-out" is a simple status that can be true about any permanent, pretty much like "face-up" or "tapped".

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    Default Re: MTG quick question

    While I get it now, I found Phasing kind of weird to understand when I first started playing. While I now know that a Phased card does not leave the play area, nor does it enter another one, but it is "no longer in play", it took a while to sink in.

    What I was trying to stress, is that Phasing - despite some superficial similarities in appearence - is not the same as "being killed"
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    Default Re: MTG quick question

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    A permanent that phases out does NOT change any zones. "phased-out" is a simple status that can be true about any permanent, pretty much like "face-up" or "tapped".
    Yeah, the rules changes broke my phasing deck, primarily the Teferi's Veil/Thalakos Seer card drawing engine.

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