Erfworld 36

[Yuki Akuma]

Because no one else seemed to want to make it.

I like the last two panels. Certainly lends credence to the whole "Wanda and Jillian actually like each other" theory.

[Jarelk]

Oh my god! This one actually made me lol'ed!

Perfect comic, especially the Jillian/Wanda thing. =P

[Bearofbadnews]

I liked this comic, I feel like I am growing to like these characters. Also, I am excited to see what Bogroll is cooking up to surprise Parson.

[Emperor Demonking]

So they are freinds and Stanley said a lot of garbage. Oooh.

[Dhavaer]

I think Wanda and Jillian have an odd kind of relationship, where they divide the time between professional (torture) and personal (chatting). I'm guessing that the torture is 'just business' for them, and Jillian isn't too bothered by it. Just a job, kind of thing.

[oogabooga]

Wow, talk about a sudden switch. I'm more curious than ever about their prior history now. Brilliant comic.

[Om]

I think Wanda and Jillian have an odd kind of relationship, where they divide the time between professional (torture) and personal (chatting). I'm guessing that the torture is 'just business' for them, and Jillian isn't too bothered by it. Just a job, kind of thing.

I'd agree. It looks like they've done this so many times before that they've gotten to know each other pretty well.

[Blood]

I'm beginning to like these characters. As much as I like tying up loose ends, though, I think it would be more fun to keep some more of Erfworld secret before Parson finds out about it all. But it'll be a fun go either way.

[lovelyluthien]

I love the change in speech register in Wanda's and Jillian's conversation! I can't stop laughing...

And it even leaves open the BDSM relationship or professional torture question!
In short: Brilliant!

[Dratsabre Tsabala]

The more we get to see of the Wanda/Jillian dynamic, the more intrigued I am with the "Weaknesses: Knowing what she wants" line in Jillian's bio on the character page. I think that Rob and Jamie have spelled out what's going on between Firebaugh and Zamussels as explicitly as they can without pushing the mature content envelope right off the edge of the table, but there's still a lot to explore as far as what makes these two tick and what bearing their character relationship is going to have on the battle to come.

Jamie did a fantastic job on on the art for this one, too-- it should be obvious now even to the most arbitrary of carpers and whiners here that the characters' proportions aren't "inconsistent," but rather "fluid," in the same vein as SD (super deformed) anime characterizations. Note how Sizemore appears quite cartoonish in the lighthearted gag half of the strip, but in the more intimate, tonally serious exchange between Jillian and Wanda, the character silhouettes are the closest thing to realism we've yet seen anywhere on Erf. The proportions change to fit the mood that the script needs them to... if I was a bolder or a snootier man, I might even trot out the word "impressionism."

[innovan]

Great set up, great delivery for the "crap" punchline. Also like having the change of story mid-page. Nicely done!

Wanda of the amazing changing proportions (hey, artistic license and ever changing camera angles allow this) now appears to be verging on the classic "trucker girl" mud flap silhouette.



Will she and Jillian become the classic twosome silhouette in a future frame?

[Caledonian]

I wonder... Wanda seemed to pick up on the true meaning of 'Tool' quite rapidly, she seems to resent Stanley's orders...

Perhaps she is also obligated to obey Stanley (in a different way) and is trying to subvert his cause by obeying the letter of the rules but ignoring their spirit? Maybe she knows the spell didn't function quite as Stanley intended...

[Mr Teufel]

"Tonight you'll be rewarded properly..."

Hmm. HMMM. Hmmmmmmm?

[lovelyluthien]

"Tonight you'll be rewarded properly..."

Hmm. HMMM. Hmmmmmmm?

*snickers*

[happyturtle]

To quote a recently deceased diviner: Oh... Oh my. I'm not even a little bit bi, but the Wanda/Jillian scene is hot as hell.

Wanda is telling Jillian about Parson? Either she thinks there's no chance of her escaping/being rescued, or she wants Ansom to know about Parson. Hmmm... And I wouldn't ordinarily jump in and say 'I called it', but I wouldn't want to go against forum tradition. So... I *totally* called it that we'd be jumped ahead to the end of the scene, with Wanda having extracted information without us knowing exactly what methods she used!

(I feel so... strange... as if this step closer to true geekdom just cost me a point of charisma. If I start posting 'First!', would someone please adjust my medication?)

[Strengfellow]

*Applauds*

A classy peice of work guys, thank you.

[WhiteNoise]

part of wanda's personality is she is going to do it properly i think she would have carried out her threat and killed jillian but jillian let wanda have her fun/hobby
The key i think is they are friends and have a 'relationship' BUT they would NEVER work for each others employer, and because of his maniacal nature Wanda can only actually gripe to jillian as anyone else would either dump her in it for favour or be so dense as to tell stanley, so she has to vent in her own way because she IS more intelligent than stanley and she is MORE commited to her side winning,

[Dib]

erm... is it just me... or is Jillian you know? unclothed?

[Strengfellow]

nope not just you.
perhaps Wanda did it so Jillian wouldnt have to wash the blood out of the post torture rags. coz you know shes nice like that.

[DCR]

Had thoughts, but Dhavaer, Dratsaber Tsabala, Caledonian and WhiteNoise have already said it better. But a small addendum to Caledorian's in the spirit of Dratsaber - I do not believe Wanda trying to subvert Stanly, she simply has a lack of hope, which definately colors her expectations and attitude.

EDIT

Oh. Mah. Gawd.
Re-perused the comic.
Noticed something.

Could be quite the spoiler.

Spoiler

Show

Wanda's blabbing away her side's secret! This could be a problem.
Follow the logic: IF (capped on purpose) Parson was able to thwart/hurt Ansom's alliance early on, THEN it is very likely that Ansom would have decided it was only luck, and tried the same old thing again, likely with the same result of failure. However (ELSE), Jillian's been captured before. Makes sense that she's escaped before.
J is a barbarian - what's torture to a barbarian? Unplesant to be sure, but not that big a deal, I'm guessing. Especially if there is a payoff for it, like an opponent's most effective and highly-placed lacky (Wanda) blabbing away useful information.
So if J escapes again (sure, why not) with information about Lord Hamster, Ansom may be much more cautious and careful and less likely to suffer a large loss at the start of the battle for Gobwin Knob, leading to problems for Parson...
Shaddup, Wanda!

[Webwalker]

Wanda, Valley Girl?? Totally?

I still don't think that this is going to turn out to be a truly sexual relationship, but damn, it's hard to keep on justifying that position. Jillian sitting there topless (or at least it appears to be topless; panel 9 seems to show the whip marks on her back, and no indication of a top or a bra.), the talk of a "proper reward", the depth of knowledge that the two have on one another (another assumption, based on Jillian's knowledge that Wanda hates those kinds of spells) and the friendly "normal" tone to the conversation make the torture scene from before to be of a much different tone.

Speaking for myself, the only other situation that could have the same sort of reaction after so much damage has been inflicted (again, Panel 9 makes the damage look fairly extensive, or at least hints that to me) is a BSDM relationship, which is pretty much a sexual relationship. Being on the GiantITP , I'm not expecting that to be the case here, but I've only got 3 justifications for it:

1) GiantITP page is somewhat PG, maybe PG-13. BSDM is R, at best. So it doesn't fit with what I feel the "rating" of the site is. (weak argument. a good writer can work just about any situation into a story, and the writer has shown themselves to be a good writer)
2) It hasn't been shown or outright stated that the two of them are in any sort of BSDM or sexual relationship of any sort. (weak argument again. being a visual medium, it's often better to show instead of telling. so it would be highly unlikely that it would be stated if it wasn't entirely necessary.)
3) This is a different world. This isn't Earth, this is Erfworld. We can't impose the same "rules" upon Erfworld that we can upon Earth. We don't have enough information about the torture methods used in Erfworld to be able to properly judge this situation. In Erfworld, wars are fought in turns, and there is no fighting at night. That doesn't happen in Earth. Maybe torture in Erfworld is similar; instead of there being resentment and hatred after a torture session, there's a Looney Toons "Mornin' Sam." "Mornin' Ralph" relationship between turns? (for those who don't get the reference, a Coyote and a Sheepdog were in a series of running gags in the classic Looney Toons cartoon series (Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Elmer Fudd, Wil. E. Coyte, the Roadrunner, etc.) where the Coyote would try to steal a sheep, and the Sheepdog would stop him every time. Then a steam whistle would blow, as an indication to the end of a shift. Both the Coyote and Sheepdog would leave, chatting in a friendly manner, when just 30 seconds before, the Sheepdog was pounding the Coyote into a tree.) Again, we just don't have enough information about this world to make that judgement. (probably the best argument I have against the relationship between Jillian and Wanda being a sexual or BSDM relationship, though I might have shot myself in the foot by comparing it to Looney Toons...)

I can't wait to find out just how wrong I am. Or even better, how right I am!

[Erianaiel]

I think Wanda and Jillian have an odd kind of relationship, where they divide the time between professional (torture) and personal (chatting). I'm guessing that the torture is 'just business' for them, and Jillian isn't too bothered by it. Just a job, kind of thing.

Or maybe the torture is personal and chatting is relaxation.

One of the reasons why Jilian may keep getting herself captured (and interrogated) by Wanda would be because she actually likes it. If she is a sub who likes pain that is hardly something she can admit, being a proud barbarian warlord and everything. But if she is captured and tortured, well, then it is obviously out of her control, right?

And maybe, just maybe, Wanda is in the process of repaying Jillian for allowing herself to be captured and tell about Ansom's army and strategies, by revealing that Stanley has obtained this new and most likely capable, warlord of his own to lead his remaining troops.
It may even be that Wanda is not intentionally telling all this but knowing this character trait is why Jillian allowed herself to be captured. As apparently it happened before many times she clearly expects to either escape or be rescued and this strategic information is vital to the attacking armies.


Eri

[Guildorn Tanaleth]

The proportions change to fit the mood that the script needs them to...

So... Wanda's distinctly enlarged nose in panel 8 is necessary for relaxing after torture?

Yes, that's the only change in proportions that I noticed.

[Crazy Slasher]

I. Love. This. Comic.

Any strip where people are agreeing with me about the *ahem* 'subtext' is a winner for me!

...Now, if I could write anything that wasn't fluffy and pointless, I'd try to write some Wanda/Jillian ficlets.

[Strengfellow]

LMAO

Slash away Drabble girl.

[Erianaiel]

I wonder... Wanda seemed to pick up on the true meaning of 'Tool' quite rapidly, she seems to resent Stanley's orders...

Perhaps she is also obligated to obey Stanley (in a different way) and is trying to subvert his cause by obeying the letter of the rules but ignoring their spirit? Maybe she knows the spell didn't function quite as Stanley intended...

It is pretty certain that she is obligated to obey the tool. She even explained to him that she was allowed to when disobeying a direct order by him (to appoint the prettiest living member of his army to be the next warlord).
Stanley also answers Parson's question why Wanda did not laugh when he ordered to by 'because she never laughs'; suggesting that his orders bind her as well.

She also is not ignoring the spirit of the orders as she warned him that she disobeyed an order because it would mean he would lose his war. Had she wanted to get out of it she could have done as ordered and concentrated on getting an escape route for the inevitable moment that Ansom took the city and ended Stanley's reign. For some reason not yet revealed Wanda is not only obedient to Stanley but loyal as well.


Eri

[SteveMB]

So they are freinds and Stanley said a lot of garbage. Oooh.

At the very least, Wanda considers Jillian someone she can vent to about working for the Tool and dealing with his stupidities

Basically, she's comfortable enough to let her hair down (note that she has, in fact, literally let her hair down...).

[SteveMB]

Wow, talk about a sudden switch. I'm more curious than ever about their prior history now. Brilliant comic.

The possibility of a one-person "good cop, bad cop" routine occurred to me... but that doesn't square with Wanda actually giving Jillian real information about the summoning. Simply expressing a need to vent about the Tool to the only available ear, or a plan to subvert the Tool within the limits of what she thinks she can get away with?

[Khayankh]

BDSM doesn't have to be R-rated. Psychologically, doms and subs have a need that is fulfilled by causing/receiving pain (respectively) that provokes the same emotional response as...well...doing it. But BSDM can be done without doing IT if you know what I'm saying. And if this is indeed Wanda's "hobby" as Stan put it, her being a dom is likely. Jillian may be a sub or she may, as some have suggested, be tough enough of a barbarian that being tortured doesn't really bother her.
Either way, I think Wanda's end of their relationship is BSDM domination. If Wanda's a dom then the end of this strip counts for her as the equivalent of pillow talk. Thus, she's willing to give away secrets and be far more emotionally open than in other contexts. Whether Jillian likes being a sub or is playing along with Wanda's "game" to get information remains to be seen.
BTW, I don't think this type of BSDM relationship is altogether unheard of in PG or PG-13 fantasy. Isn't one of the classic definitions of evil someone who *enjoys* suffering (which could imply an evil person is turned on by causing pain)? PG-ish explanation: Wanda likes hurting people, so after she hurts someone she feels happy and relaxed and is willing to talk. Jillian likes when Wanda is happy and relaxed because it allows Jillian to learn Wanda's side's secrets. Jillian is tough and strong and doesn't mind getting hurt in order to learn this valuable information. I'm still not sure how Jillian being a sub would fit in this version of the story...

[mhoram]

One thing that really excited me about this page was that the first frame with Wanda vividly evoked one of my favorite scenes from Sandman. The light and shadow, the camera angle, the eye glint, and even the hair were dead ringers for a shot from at least one of the comics. I believe it might have been near the end of Season of Mists, the "Oh, Azazel." Panel from the showdown at the end of that storyline. Maybe not. But unless the Sandman shot was itself derived, it's a clear homage to one of the Sandman artists.