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Thread: Are Card Suits Ranked?
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2015-03-15, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Are Card Suits Ranked?
, I thought I read somewhere that the suits of a standard deck of cards are ranked. The order, I think, was Clubs<Diamonds <Hearts<Spades. I kinda think it's maybe not true, because I can't find anything on the subject when en-Googling for it and that makes me think that if it were true it'd probably be easier to find something saying that. On the other hand, it doesn't seem like there'd be that many real applications for it, except maybe in just playing High Card; e.g. Jack of Hearts beats Jack of Diamonds.
I will say, if it is true, it'd be kinda cool since the order suggests to me that money (Diamonds) is more powerful than violence (Clubs), but love (Hearts) is more powerful than money, yet death (Spades) is more powerful than love. The explanation I may have read might have phrased it that way. Though it may have been, y'know, BS fan fiction, essentially.
Does anyone know for sure?Avatar by the one and only Ceika.
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2015-03-15, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
In Skat the order from highest to lowest is Clubs, Spades, Hearts, Diamonds. In Poker I think it's Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs.
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2015-03-15, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Its really gonna vary by game. In Poker, a Royal Flush in Hearts is worth exactly the same as a Royal Flush in Clubs, for example. In Hearts, Hearts and the Queen of Spades are worth points, but aren't "higher" in terms of taking tricks. Whatever is lead is the "trump" suit. In Euchre and Pinochle, the person who names trump sets what cards have the highest power.
In general, however, Hearts is generally given the most representation, mostly because of Alice in Wonderland and associated trickle down from that. IMO.
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2015-03-15, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-03-15, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
The ranking will vary by game, yes. The Ace of Spades is traditionally the highest-ranked card in the deck, and is also the one where the maker's logo is (in Britain, at least) printed, by statute law since the 17th century I think.
If I remember correctly, in the "standard" (French) deck, the suits each represent a different class of people: clubs the commoners, diamonds the wealthy, hearts the clergy, and spades the warriors (the aristocracy, essentially). The suits are all adapted from earlier versions and don't carry the obvious symbolism of their modern incarnation. Spades, for instance, were originally swords, hearts were chalices, clubs were something connected with agriculture, and so on.
The knave, queen and king in each suit also represents a historic or mythological figure, with clues in their posture and attire to their identity (albeit fairly abstruse ones) and with a loose thematic connection to their suit. Again, if I remember rightly, the king of spades is Alexander the Great, hearts Charlemagne, diamonds Julius Caesar, and clubs King David. Sir Lancelot features as one of the knaves (clubs?)Last edited by Aedilred; 2015-03-15 at 04:10 PM.
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2015-03-15, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Varies by game, but I think most card playing people, if asked about the ranking, would be familiar with the bridge version even if they have never played bridge in their lives.
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2015-03-15, 06:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Clubs low to spades high is common enough that is could be used as a baseline or default-that's why the 2 of clubs is the starting card for hearts for example (lowest card in the deck) and why they picked the ace of spades for the manufacturers logo (highest).
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2015-03-15, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Here is the Wikipedia article on the ranking of suits.
Bridge order is the de facto standard but a lot of other games do it another way.
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2015-03-15, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Wow, everyone is so helpful and knew a bunch of stuff. Thank you. I admit I was thinking mainly of poker, that being what I'm familiar with (culturally, I mean; I couldn't play poker to save my life [bad with probabilities and I can barely read people's faces]) but it's interesting that the bridge ranking is exactly the way I thought in the first place. And yeah, I know the suits didn't evolved with such obvious symbolism, but it's still a neat little mnemonicky thing to remember it by.
I like the German suits: Hearts, Bells, Acorns and Leaves. Gotta say, this subject kinda makes me wanna do ky own illustration design of a deck of cards.Avatar by the one and only Ceika.
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2015-03-15, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
That depends on the game
In bridge and (usually) poker it goes Spades> Hearts> diamonds> clubs.
This is why you always see the winning hand in poker movies be a spade royal flush, because it’s literally unbeatable.
However that’s not the only way to do it. There are a bunch of other games that change this up. But they’re not nearly as popular or wide spread.
Really Wikipedia could have answered this question, but meh.Last edited by TheThan; 2015-03-15 at 10:41 PM.
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2015-03-16, 12:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Hey, I looked. I couldn't find anything, so I asked; it worked. Sheesh.
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2015-03-16, 04:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suit_%28cards%29
there ya go!
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2015-03-16, 04:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
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2015-03-16, 04:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
heh, funny, if in a game suit matters I usually arrange them clubs, diamonds, spades, hearts. (mainly for visibility). I didn't know spades came after hearts
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2015-03-16, 06:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
I always learned it as black beats red, hearts beat diamonds and spades beat... what was the name of the fourth one in English? I know it's neither crosses nor staves.
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2015-03-16, 07:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
The only order that matters in cards is what order you put your Solitaire cards up top in because it bothers you when they're not in the 'right' order. (Which is the unrelated-to-anything-else order of hearts - clubs - diamonds - spades for me.)
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2015-03-16, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Avatar by the one and only Ceika.
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2015-03-30, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Yeah, Bridge ranking is the de-facto standard when you really need one.
Savage Worlds, fwiw, uses bridge ranking for initiative.
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2015-04-11, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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2015-04-11, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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2015-04-11, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Most clubs and maces have an expanded striking head; the card emblem could be easily interpreted as a close-up of the head, in a somewhat stylized form. Just saying.
My personal interpretation of the suit symbolism was always:
Hearts - love.
Diamonds - riches.
Clubs - power, due to the resemblance to the end of a scepter in some medieval illustrations.
Spades - armed might, since "spades" = "swords."
In short, all the good stuff.
EDIT: and, as noted, ranking depends on the game.Last edited by Bulldog Psion; 2015-04-11 at 12:06 PM.
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2015-04-11, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Clubs are not supposed to depict actual clubs: that the word has come to be the same is, I think, the result of a linguistic confusion. The suit as it came from France was originally "trefles", or "clovers", hence the distinctive clover pattern and clubs' being green in a four-colour deck. That is still the name in French.
In Italian and Spanish decks however the suit is clubs, represented with what is more obviously a club. Tarot is similar. Latin decks had been more common in England historically but were supplanted by French ones some time in the late Middle Ages. I suspect that the similarity in "clover" and "club" led people to use the latter word as standard in English, even though we retained the French symbols and thus the clover.
Note that we also use the Italian name for spades, although again the symbol was taken from French (pikes): in that case it might have helped that the symbol for spades more obviously resembled a spade. Diamonds seems to have developed independently, presumably from the shape, while hearts still uses the original term as in French.GITP Blood Bowl Manager Cup
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2015-04-11, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Well in some older decks the "proto-clubs" were batons. Still rather common in English language tarot minor arcana.
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2015-04-12, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Interesting that so many people say suits don't matter in poker. I've always played it with rules that if for in for instance you have a royal flush in Hearts and someone else has a royal flush in Spades, the one with Spades wins. (Not very likely to happen but still). Mind you, suits were the latest tie breaker, after all the other ways to determine who won, but it was always part of the rules when I played. It might depend on the version of poker you're playing.
Although, did someone mention making your own suits?
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2015-04-14, 12:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
Sorry to say but it you're wrong
It's not a major part of the game. but it's there.
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2015-04-14, 10:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Are Card Suits Ranked?
When high-carding for the button or a free seat or rounding up/down tournament chip stacks, suits break a tie between two cards of the same rank.
When splitting the pot, the suit of the highest card used in the hand may be used to determine the winner of a leftover indivisible amount.
When playing an actual hand, the suits are all equivalent. Any players who have the same hand, except for using different suited cards, will split the pot.
This depends on the actual system used, however SHDC seems to be the most common.
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ex.
Players A, B, C, D are four-handed when the table must close. There are two seats available on other tables, which they take cards for. Dealt are the KS, TD, TC, 7H.
The King-card player has first choice. The other seat is given to the Ten-Diamonds player. The Ten-Clubs-player is first on the waiting list.
ex.
Player F has the royal flush in hearts, Player G has the royal flush in diamonds. There is $505 in the pot, $5 units.
The pot will be split between both Players. Since there is an odd number of units, Player F will receive $255, because they have the better high-card-suit, and Player G will receive $250.
ex.
Player J has the Ace-Spades in hole, Player K has the Ace-Diamonds in hole. The board is dealt four-of-a-kind with the Ace-Clubs kicker.
All players still active in the hand will receive an equal share of the pot, because all players have the same hand.
Player J does not win the whole pot on suit.Last edited by Citizen Nij; 2015-04-14 at 10:25 PM.
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2015-04-17, 04:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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