Heroes of the Storm (Closed Beta Begins 13 Jan)

[Olinser]

I'm incredibly annoyed at the lack of Starcraft warriors. Why is Tychys an assassin? He would make a much better warrior.

Well Tychus for obvious reasons - dude carries around a minigun, he's definitely not a Warrior type.

Also, they seem to have decided (not unreasonably, IMO) that all Warriors MUST be primary melee - and there aren't many melee characters in Starcraft, especially since they've already used Kerrigan and Zeratul as Assassins.

The only other named Starcraft melee character that really comes to mind is pre-injury Fenix, who I think fits the Warrior role very well.

[Gandariel]

Well it kinda makes sense.
Most Starcraft characters aren't what you would call tank.
The closest I can think of is the dude who accompanies Kerrigan from Zerus on.
Dehaka? The guy with one huge arm which always talks about evolution

Other than than, there are a ton of possible characters to include from all 3 big franchises, so I wouldn't worry about it. Maybe Starcraft has the least new guys to introduce (can't really think of many to add: Fenix, Tosh, some Hybrid, Dehaka, the servant-of-Amon-evil-guy-whose-name-i-cant-remember ... )
i suppose they *could* adapt more units to a character: Firebat (or Hellbat! ) , Infestor... Maybe some weird ones like Lurker and Science Vessel.

While Diablo has, at the very least, all bosses and character classes from the games.
and while I know nothing of Warcraft, I'm entirely sure there is an infinite pool of characters to pick.

[Olinser]

Well it kinda makes sense.
Most Starcraft characters aren't what you would call tank.
The closest I can think of is the dude who accompanies Kerrigan from Zerus on.
Dehaka? The guy with one huge arm which always talks about evolution

Other than than, there are a ton of possible characters to include from all 3 big franchises, so I wouldn't worry about it. Maybe Starcraft has the least new guys to introduce (can't really think of many to add: Fenix, Tosh, some Hybrid, Dehaka, the servant-of-Amon-evil-guy-whose-name-i-cant-remember ... )
i suppose they *could* adapt more units to a character: Firebat (or Hellbat! ) , Infestor... Maybe some weird ones like Lurker and Science Vessel.

While Diablo has, at the very least, all bosses and character classes from the games.
and while I know nothing of Warcraft, I'm entirely sure there is an infinite pool of characters to pick.

Dude you're missing so many there!!!! I'd say that Diablo actually has the LEAST amount of characters (assuming they don't delve down into the NPC vendors), while Starcraft has so many more combat-oriented characters:

Humans:
Pre-Infested Kerrigan
Clenased Kerrigan
General Duke
General Warfield
General DuGalle
Alexei Stukov
Matt Horner
Mira Horner
Tosh
Arcturus Mengsk
Valerian Mengsk
Egon Stetmann
Rory Swann

Protoss:
Fenix (could technically be 2 characters, Zealot Fenix or Dragoon Fenix)
Artanis
Ulrezaj
Selendis
Mohander
Judicator Aldaris
Taldarin
Raszagal
Praetor Karass

Zerg:
Samir Duran
The Overmind
Zsaz
Daggoth
Izsha
Naktul
Niadra
Zurvan
Dehaka

Others:
Amon (Xel Naga - he's allegedly the antagonist of the upcoming Starcraft II Expansion)
Maar (the named Hybrid that keeps resurrecting in one of the Starcraft II Missions)
Emir Narud

Those are just from memory - I'm sure I'm missing some that could be made into characters easily but that aren't really combat like Ariel Hanson - and that's even before the upcoming Legacy of the Void expansion or considering the two dozen or so characters from Insurrection (which was not made by Blizzard).

[Draken]

dude you're missing so many there!!!! I'd say that diablo actually has the least amount of characters (assuming they don't delve down into the npc vendors), while starcraft has so many more combat-oriented characters:

Humans:
Pre-infested kerrigan - lets be honest, this is nova's second base skin tint.
Clenased kerrigan - they could give her a whole moveset but two problems. 1, overlap with "standard" kerrigan. 2. She would be so hard to tell apart from nova, visually.
General duke - no idea what this guy could be. He used to ride around in a siege tank right?
General warfield - here is a possible warrior.
General dugalle - not sure what he could do. But apparently he was a ghost?
Alexei stukov - 100% chance he will show up infested when he does.
Matt horner - not sure what he could be.
Mira horner - eh... No clue.
Tosh - i foresee this guy causing problems for the devs because he is sort of a novaratul.
Arcturus mengsk - i can see a specialist that lays down bombs and calls down nukes.
Valerian mengsk - woefully, we don't know how valerian fights. He does carry around a sword. Maybe he can say "drive me closer, i want to hit them with my sword!" to screw with wh40k purists.
Egon stetmann - the medic.
Rory swann - an easy one, he would probably be equal parts marauder and equal parts herc (unit scrapped, alas).

Protoss:
Fenix (could technically be 2 characters, zealot fenix or dragoon fenix) - alternatively, he could have a passive ult that pops him into the dragoon.
Artanis - if i were to guess, he will show up after lotv.
Ulrezaj - aye.
Selendis - carrier hero? Hard to say.
Mohander - i want the void ray.
Judicator aldaris - timewarping support. He would probably be all the rage.
Taldarin - is there a guy called taldarin?
Raszagal - no comment.
Praetor karass - maybe a specialist high templar? Who knows.

Zerg:
Samir duran
the overmind - i want this as a specialist that replaces your core. It would be hilarious.
Zsaz - see bellow.
Daggoth - the problem with the cerebrates is that while they are interesting characters they don't really do anything, do they? I would put them as part of the overmind's kit, replacing the forts. Suddenly all your base is zerg.
Izsha - she isn't really a fighter.
Naktul - see bellow.
Niadra - naktul and niadra (and all other broodmothers) are sort of minor characters whose role is already represented by zagara, i think. Doesn't help that there would be display issues, they all look similar.
Zurvan - so huge. I think he is more likely to end up as an ultimate or as a set piece.
Dehaka - warrior. Definitely.

Others:
Amon (xel naga - he's allegedly the antagonist of the upcoming starcraft ii expansion)
maar (the named hybrid that keeps resurrecting in one of the starcraft ii missions) - you will add me to this game.
Emir narud - emil. And i think he is duran.

Those are just from memory - i'm sure i'm missing some that could be made into characters easily but that aren't really combat like ariel hanson - and that's even before the upcoming legacy of the void expansion or considering the two dozen or so characters from insurrection (which was not made by blizzard).

things have been said.

[Olinser]

things have been said.

General Duke or Matt Horner ought to be a Battlecruiser hero (Duke in the Norad, Horner in the Hyperion). I really want to see them or Artanis as a flying hero similar to Falstad.

Taldarin was the Protoss that appeared in the bonus SC map for the N64 where you de-infest Stukov.

Selendis should be a Carrier hero - I'd love to see a true minion hero, and a Carrier would be perfect for it, where your 'autoattacks' are fighters rather than your own model.

The Overmind or the Cerebrates I would assume would function not dis-similarly to Abathur, where they get their power from commanding minions/buffing allies rather than their presence in the fight.

[Cerlis]

well just did a game as Muradin.

My help was Murky, Nova, Abathur and Malfurion

It went about as well as you'd expect

[Cerlis]

Dude you're missing so many there!!!! I'd say that Diablo actually has the LEAST amount of characters (assuming they don't delve down into the NPC vendors), while Starcraft has so many more combat-oriented characters:

Humans:
Pre-Infested Kerrigan
Clenased Kerrigan
General Duke
General Warfield
General DuGalle
Alexei Stukov
Matt Horner
Mira Horner
Tosh
Arcturus Mengsk
Valerian Mengsk
Egon Stetmann
Rory Swann

Protoss:
Fenix (could technically be 2 characters, Zealot Fenix or Dragoon Fenix)
Artanis
Ulrezaj
Selendis
Mohander
Judicator Aldaris
Taldarin
Raszagal
Praetor Karass

Zerg:
Samir Duran
The Overmind
Zsaz
Daggoth
Izsha
Naktul
Niadra
Zurvan
Dehaka

Others:
Amon (Xel Naga - he's allegedly the antagonist of the upcoming Starcraft II Expansion)
Maar (the named Hybrid that keeps resurrecting in one of the Starcraft II Missions)
Emir Narud

Those are just from memory - I'm sure I'm missing some that could be made into characters easily but that aren't really combat like Ariel Hanson - and that's even before the upcoming Legacy of the Void expansion or considering the two dozen or so characters from Insurrection (which was not made by Blizzard).

Well if you take out all the characters who are just reskins (Preinfested Kerrigan already exists. its an alternate color for Nova. Cleansed Kerrigan is also alternate skin fodder) or otherwise wouldnt exist as a unique character
And then take away the characters that are already flagged to be put in the game
(Dehaka, both Mengks, Fenix(?)) then you, i think, are left with mostly a long name of characters though unique arent impactful or iconic to the starcraft universe or workable in the game at this time.

I mean the Overmind COULD work but it would be very similar to abathur and since many dont play him I'm guessing that a zerg/mastermind/specialist type character that is unique from Ab is very low on their priority list. If they are going to make such a complex hero they'd probably spend their time on someone else thats actually different.

And then, like, Amon? I mean we basically didnt get confirmation that he existed till starcraft 2 HoTS. Assuming he has a unique appearance, and unique abilities presented in the game he MIGHT make it in a year after Legacy of the Void comes out.

Other characters are basically just a cheep excuse to make another starcraft unit I.E. Sgt Hammer.

I like that character but it is a cheap excuse.

I'd rather have Starcraft represented by less but important/iconic characters, Rather than shoehorning a bunch of characters never seen in combat with 1 or two battles/cutscenes to testify to the fact they even have any combat ability, being shoved in a banshee or battlecruiser and told its "That" hero. Like seriously? what are they going to do with the Mengks? Put em in a battlecruiser and give daddy mengks a special were he pulls out that anti-zerg device?

Woopdi do.

[Ivellius]

Last week I cleared out a set of Warrior / Specialist / Starcraft quests with Muradin and Zagara, two of my most played.

Saturday: "Oh, a Warrior quest. Let's just let these stack up for a couple of days." Specialist and Starcraft on Sunday and Monday.

Monday: Play two games with Nova to clear the Starcraft quest.

Tuesday: Starcraft quest. All right, I'll play some games with Murky who's on free week for the first time since I started to clear that Specialist quest.

Today: Specialist quest.

So I've had the same three quests over the last 8 consecutive days. Blizzard plz.

[The_Jackal]

I'd rather have Starcraft represented by less but important/iconic characters, Rather than shoehorning a bunch of characters never seen in combat with 1 or two battles/cutscenes to testify to the fact they even have any combat ability, being shoved in a banshee or battlecruiser and told its "That" hero. Like seriously? what are they going to do with the Mengks? Put em in a battlecruiser and give daddy mengks a special were he pulls out that anti-zerg device?.

I agree, but it's important to recognize that gameplay informs lore. In no Blizzard title is this MORE apparent than Heroes of the Storm. Like Uther says in the tutorial missions: Don't think about it too much.

Part of the problem blighting Starcraft is that it's not a character-driven game. Yes, there are P.O.V. characters, but they're pretty marginal to core gameplay. In SCII, you mainly left them in your base so as to avoid getting them killed during your campaign missions, because immediate loss. So yeah, take away Kerrigan, Raynor and Zeratul, and there's nothing left in the lore but talking heads blabbing during mission briefings.

[Olinser]

I just got 4 Beta keys in my email - is anybody in the thread not actually playing the game yet? Shoot me a message, I'll be gone tomorrow but check it on Sunday.

[Nadevoc]

I'm XenonAtom#1788. So far I've played the tutorial and a couple of practice games. The lack of CSing is an interesting change. Mounts are cool, but it's kind of annoying to have to remember to click to summon it. I get to be a man in a massive sci fi suit riding a pony, though, so overall a good feature. Combination of no CS and mounts feels like it would really encourage dynamic map movements.

You can really feel the focus on short games.


I assume the free to play characters rotate, similar to League?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I assume the free to play characters rotate, similar to League?

Correct; you also unlock more rotation slots as you get to the really high player levels. Which means you get a larger roster in each rotation.

[Olinser]

I'm XenonAtom#1788. So far I've played the tutorial and a couple of practice games. The lack of CSing is an interesting change. Mounts are cool, but it's kind of annoying to have to remember to click to summon it. I get to be a man in a massive sci fi suit riding a pony, though, so overall a good feature. Combination of no CS and mounts feels like it would really encourage dynamic map movements.

You can really feel the focus on short games.


I assume the free to play characters rotate, similar to League?

Added you to the list. I won't be able to play for a couple days but more than happy to walk you through some stuff later on.

1 note - hotkey for mount is Z. You shouldn't be clicking it

Big macro changes from league:

1) Towers DO NOT auto target you for any reason. As long as there is a minion in range of the tower, they target them regardless of any action you take.

2) Killing blows for heroes are irrelevant - you all have the same pool of EXP, as long as they die it doesn't matter who killed them.

3) Pretty much all of the objectives are worth massively more than anything else (with the possible exception of Cursed Hollow, which takes 3 to activate the Curse) - fighting over objectives is generally MUCH more important than just pushing in a lane, with the exception of just a couple heroes that excel at pushing.

[Nadevoc]

I meant clicking the hot key. I suppose it does make a few interesting decision points (eg, when chasing an enemy, do you want to lag behind while mounting or not), and once you get used to it it's not a big deal. It's just a bit annoying as someone new to the game to often realize I've been running around without my pony for a while, and thus could've been running faster. I guess Falstad mains probably run into the same issue when playing other heroes.

I noticed a number of the differences (eg, towers won't refocus onto you unless there are no minions). My understanding is last hitting minions does not matter at all, even if you have something like the Raynor talent that stacks based on minion kills. Is that correct?

[Draken]

I meant clicking the hot key. I suppose it does make a few interesting decision points (eg, when chasing an enemy, do you want to lag behind while mounting or not), and once you get used to it it's not a big deal. It's just a bit annoying as someone new to the game to often realize I've been running around without my pony for a while, and thus could've been running faster. I guess Falstad mains probably run into the same issue when playing other heroes.

I noticed a number of the differences (eg, towers won't refocus onto you unless there are no minions). My understanding is last hitting minions does not matter at all, even if you have something like the Raynor talent that stacks based on minion kills. Is that correct?

Correct.

The only exception is Azmodan's Taste for Blood talent. Which is all the rage right now.

But personally, I still take bribe on him.

[Olinser]

Correct.

The only exception is Azmodan's Taste for Blood talent. Which is all the rage right now.

But personally, I still take bribe on him.

You shouldn't. Bribe has no place on Azmodan - he kills merc camps fast enough already that Bribe just isn't very useful, especially given the talents it is stacked up against.

If you're not taking Taste for Blood, then you really should be taking either Sieging Wrath (actually stronger early game than Taste for Blood and equal strength in mid game) or Healing Ward.

[Malistrae]

You shouldn't. Bribe has no place on Azmodan - he kills merc camps fast enough already that Bribe just isn't very useful, especially given the talents it is stacked up against.

If you're not taking Taste for Blood, then you really should be taking either Sieging Wrath (actually stronger early game than Taste for Blood and equal strength in mid game) or Healing Ward.

I personally prefer Sieging Wrath. I understand Taste for Blood's potential, but unless the game really drags on, I don't see much use for it. Scoring kills with it is very difficult early game, and you usually don't have the time to farm for extra damage in the late game. Sieging Wrath synergizes very well with Azmo's pushing style, and grants a percentage bonus that is useful even in late game.

[Olinser]

I personally prefer Sieging Wrath. I understand Taste for Blood's potential, but unless the game really drags on, I don't see much use for it. Scoring kills with it is very difficult early game, and you usually don't have the time to farm for extra damage in the late game. Sieging Wrath synergizes very well with Azmo's pushing style, and grants a percentage bonus that is useful even in late game.

I take Taste for Blood if I plan on taking Black Pool - and with the big nerf to Demonic Invasion, I quite frankly find myself taking Black Pool in almost all games nowadays. These days, pretty much the only map I take Demonic Invasion on is Haunted Mines.

It is indeed, extremely difficult to get stacks in the early game, which is why Sieging Wrath is stronger in early game.

However, a single Black Pool + Q will will kill the arrow/mage minions right at level 10, and will clear the ENTIRE wave in 1 shot once you hit the low teens, regardless of previous stacks. That's the point you can really start getting stacks - you just have to be in range for a single Q to wipe out the entire minion wave, get an immediate +10-20 damage, and get back to whatever you were doing. Even with marginal farming Taste for Blood quickly surpasses Sieging Wrath at that point, and only gets stronger as the game goes on - add that to the fact you can hold multiple Pool charges, and you can farm pretty efficiently and still be very effective in fights. And in late game team fights, the ability to drop a Black Pool + Q for over 1k area damage is unbelievable. A single shot and you can wipe out over 1/2 the HP off the squishy back line, and adds an unbelievable ability to execute an assassin that thought they could hang around at 1/3 HP in the back.

[Olinser]

Aragehaor - your message box is full. I do still have some keys, but you have to delete some messages if you want me to send it to you. Message me again when you have space in your inbox.

[Celesyne]

I'm still in search of a key if you have some laying about still.

[Nadevoc]

The more I play this game, the more I appreciate what Blizzard has done.

They've made some design decisions I might not agree with, but the fact is that they've come up with a fresh take on the MOBA genre, and that's big. The entire genre has been basically clones since DotA Allstars first became a hit back when I was in high school. Even the games that 'deviated' like League and Smite more or less stuck to the constraints of the genre. Back when League first came out, that was fine; I appreciate the changes it made and what it did within the framework. But it's been quite awhile now of just clones of League and DotA. Even Smite was basically a clone, even if it changed the basic game by switching up the control scheme.

It would've been so easy to build another standard MOBA and market it as "Hey, we're Blizzard and we've made this slight changes!" I love that they didn't settle for that, but actually tried something new

[Gandariel]

You just gotta appreciate Blizzard's business model. They basically invented e-sports.

They are a huge company with the resources to spend 10 years making Diablo 3 and just surviving off of WoW money.

so they took off on a quest to make the best possible game for every genre. They can afford to take it slowly, they can afford hyper expensive advertising and cinematics, they have access to top tier developers and animators, they can afford to throw whatever money and time is necessary to make it work.

And so, as they create the perfect conditions, they slowly churn out Hearthstone, Starcraft, Diablo, and now Hots and Overwatch.

I'm not saying they always do the best, but their execution (at the best of their abilities) is incredible

[TechnOkami]

I'm wanting to add myself to the list 'cause yeah.

My Battle.net tag is TechnOkami#1805. North America.

[Olinser]

I'm wanting to add myself to the list 'cause yeah.

My Battle.net tag is TechnOkami#1805. North America.

Added you.

Glad I was the cause for you discovering you actually had access to the game

[Nadevoc]

So when I choose Auto Select for my champion, I've gotten Murky twice. Which is odd since I don't have him unlocked. I realize that he's free this week, but only if you meet a level requirement that I don't.

He's difficult. Maybe I'm trying to hard not to die, but it's hard to do much. There's a lot of running in, Sliming, and then bubbling away. The only time I felt I was accomplishing anything was when the enemy was distracted and I got to shove a lane with no opposition - he has enough AoE to push quickly. And when an enemy came to stop me, it took him a while to chase me down, and I was pretty sure he was worth more than me in a fight, so that time was a plus for my team.

EDIT: So apparently the level 20 talent to improve Octo-Grab increases damage by 10,000%? Is that tooltip actually right? Because 10,000 dmg a second for 3 seconds would be an insta-kill, right?

[huttj509]

So when I choose Auto Select for my champion, I've gotten Murky twice. Which is odd since I don't have him unlocked. I realize that he's free this week, but only if you meet a level requirement that I don't.

He's difficult. Maybe I'm trying to hard not to die, but it's hard to do much. There's a lot of running in, Sliming, and then bubbling away. The only time I felt I was accomplishing anything was when the enemy was distracted and I got to shove a lane with no opposition - he has enough AoE to push quickly. And when an enemy came to stop me, it took him a while to chase me down, and I was pretty sure he was worth more than me in a fight, so that time was a plus for my team.

EDIT: So apparently the level 20 talent to improve Octo-Grab increases damage by 10,000%? Is that tooltip actually right? Because 10,000 dmg a second for 3 seconds would be an insta-kill, right?

10,000% is 100 times the damage. So 101 damage per second.

[Nadevoc]

...right. Basic math too hard.

I guess I'm just too used to such things being written as "100x" or something, so my brain completely failed me.

[huttj509]

...right. Basic math too hard.

I guess I'm just too used to such things being written as "100x" or something, so my brain completely failed me.

Common mistake.

It's, like, 100%, ok, I can parse that. Anything above 1000% and I wonder why they didn't write "10x" or something. 10,000%, and it's like my brain's too distracted by the zeroes to parse the %.

[Olinser]

So when I choose Auto Select for my champion, I've gotten Murky twice. Which is odd since I don't have him unlocked. I realize that he's free this week, but only if you meet a level requirement that I don't.

He's difficult. Maybe I'm trying to hard not to die, but it's hard to do much. There's a lot of running in, Sliming, and then bubbling away. The only time I felt I was accomplishing anything was when the enemy was distracted and I got to shove a lane with no opposition - he has enough AoE to push quickly. And when an enemy came to stop me, it took him a while to chase me down, and I was pretty sure he was worth more than me in a fight, so that time was a plus for my team.

EDIT: So apparently the level 20 talent to improve Octo-Grab increases damage by 10,000%? Is that tooltip actually right? Because 10,000 dmg a second for 3 seconds would be an insta-kill, right?

He's not difficult, sadly he's just trash right now.

Before the last patch, he was the quintessential Magikarp champion - incredibly poor early game, but actually pretty good late game (basically at level 16) on a good player. Then they nerfed him - which was stupid. Now he's pretty much trash tier the whole game.

Before, essentially the play pattern was just mindlessly push early game (expect several deaths), but you could keep another champion from going to the objectives meaning your team was in a 4v4. Then you get move speed, cooldown reduction, slimy pufferfish (casts slime at pufferfish target meaning you can double slime champions for pretty reasonable burst), and 100% health restore on safety bubble - this meant that he was actually incredibly hard to kill because he'd go in, do some damage, safety bubble out (for a full health restore), then go back in to the fight a few seconds later and repeat. Now they crushed the health regen all the way down to 50% and moved Slimy Pufferfish to the same level.

He is literally the only champion in the game right now that I would unequivocally say should never be played, EVER, past the few games to get the 500 gold at level 5 - which, by the way, if you can, get him to level 5 RIGHT NOW, he hasn't been on the free list for 6 months and I doubt he's going to be back on it any time soon.

He badly needs just a complete kit rework.

[TechnOkami]

Glad I was the cause for you discovering you actually had access to the game

Yeeeeeeeeeee boi.

I have a whole slew of questions though: which heroes are considered the best at the moment? Am I being a fool looking at Tychus as the first champion I purchase with battle-won gold? (I mean, c'mon, he has a huge mini-gun and turns into a giant robot? What's not to love!) Is Arthas any decent as a Tank? Is Azmodan any good as a champion in general? Is Tanking (HotS specifically) really just body blocking for your team and acting as some kind of initiation at the same time?

Edit: do you think they'll add Kel'Thuzad as a Hero?