Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

[Zweisteine]

One of Haley's wands is Magic Missle as per 973.

And the Giant has confirmed that.

It's a Magic Missile.

[Quartz]

Does 973 mean that Haley has the Far Shot feat?

[Kornaki]

The maximum range of a bow is ridiculously far (you just have a big penalty to your to-hit, but you can shoot an arrow 1000 feet). I think the point of the scene is just to demonstrate that she is not recovering those arrows, not that she is shooting the arrows very far anyway.

[littlebum2002]

Does 973 mean that Haley has the Far Shot feat?

If we can prove that it went over 1000'

[Zweisteine]

The maximum range of a bow is ridiculously far (you just have a big penalty to your to-hit, but you can shoot an arrow 1000 feet).

Unless you're using a better bow. A composite longbow can hit 1100 feet.
Speaking of composite bows, how do we know Haley's bow isn't? Or do we?
If we don't, maybe that should be noted? (i.e. "+5 Icy Burst (Composite?) Longbow")

(For reference: Ranged weapons have a stacking -2 penalty to attack rolls for each range increment beyond the first. Projectile weapons have a maximum range of 10 range increments. The range increment of a normal longbow is 100 feet.)

I think the point of the scene is just to demonstrate that she is not recovering those arrows, not that she is shooting the arrows very far anyway.

Yep. Isn't it possible that they were right next to the ocean, anyway? Three panels could be as little as 3 meters.


EDIT:
Looking at Haley's statblock, I've noticed a few things.
1. Shouldn't her bow be listed as "+5 Icy Burst Longbow"? "+5 Longbow of Icy Burst" just feels wrong (and isn't how the SRD does it).
2. There is no citation for her having feats instead of rogue special abilities.

[illyahr]

Do you think The Giant put those Adamantine arrows in there just to toll this thread?

"Ok, there was never any indication she had these but now she did but now she doesn't. Take that, Class and Level Geekery thread!"

[D.One]

Do you think The Giant put those Adamantine arrows in there just to toll this thread?

"Ok, there was never any indication she had these but now she did but now she doesn't. Take that, Class and Level Geekery thread!"

It strikes me as the classic "Now she solved the problem...No, she didn't." situation. On the other hand, the Giant has proven himself capable of exploring tiny details, so maybe that's not the last time we saw those arrows...

[Chronos]

Haley has feats instead of rogue abilities because she has too many feats otherwise.

Honestly, I'd almost think she had a ranger dip, if it weren't for panel 5 of 518. It would account for her using a longbow instead of a shortbow (why would anyone ever spend a feat just for that?), and it'd also give her Rapid Shot for free, easing her feat situation further.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Haley has feats instead of rogue abilities because she has too many feats otherwise.

Honestly, I'd almost think she had a ranger dip, if it weren't for panel 5 of 518. It would account for her using a longbow instead of a shortbow (why would anyone ever spend a feat just for that?), and it'd also give her Rapid Shot for free, easing her feat situation further.

She suggests that she should...perhaps next level she did... especially since she hasn't gotten to fight an airborn tramp since, since she was stone in the the Empire of Blood battle, and Sabine got banished in the Pyramid battle.

[Quild]

Do you think The Giant put those Adamantine arrows in there just to toll this thread?

"Ok, there was never any indication she had these but now she did but now she doesn't. Take that, Class and Level Geekery thread!"

What is the difference between standard arrows and adamantine arrows? +1 to hit?

Haley shot 4 arrows in previous page, those hit.
Here she shot 3 arrows, those miss.

[littlebum2002]

What is the difference between standard arrows and adamantine arrows? +1 to hit?

Haley shot 4 arrows in previous page, those hit.
Here she shot 3 arrows, those miss.

Adamentine arrows have +1 to hit, but they also bypass the DR of many creatures, like Golems. Not devils (or demons) though, so not sure why Haley had them for Sabine.

Although I've had DM's who let Adamantine count when overcoming DR/adamantine, DR/silver or DR/cold iron, so this perhaps might be the case, but I'm pretty positive that's a houserule.

[Peelee]

Adamentine arrows have +1 to hit, but they also bypass the DR of many creatures, like Golems. Not devils though, so not sure why Haley had them for Sabine.

Although I've had DM's who let Adamantine count when overcoming DR/adamantine, DR/silver or DR/cold iron, so this perhaps might be the case, but I'm pretty positive that's a houserule.

Sabine's a succubus. Demon, not devil.

[SavageWombat]

Not devils (or demons) though, so not sure why Haley had them for Sabine.

Haley probably has a bunch of every kind of arrow they make at this point, hoping to figure out which metal works on her.

[zimmerwald1915]

Haley has feats instead of rogue abilities because she has too many feats otherwise.

And? You can use your rogue abilities to get bonus feats. In core, no less.

[Kornaki]

And? You can use your rogue abilities to get bonus feats. In core, no less.

There's no point beyond what he explicitly stated. He was replying to

2. There is no citation for her having feats instead of rogue special abilities.

from above.

[unbeliever536]

And? You can use your rogue abilities to get bonus feats. In core, no less.

That's the complaint Chronos was responding to - that Haley was noted as having taken free feats rather than (specified) rogue bonus abilities, and this was uncited. Chronos cited the number of feats as a reason why she must have chosen to spend her rogue abilities on bonus feats.

[Boost]

Adamentine arrows have +1 to hit, but they also bypass the DR of many creatures, like Golems. Not devils (or demons) though, so not sure why Haley had them for Sabine.

Although I've had DM's who let Adamantine count when overcoming DR/adamantine, DR/silver or DR/cold iron, so this perhaps might be the case, but I'm pretty positive that's a houserule.

Haley has no ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) and therefore has no idea what type of metal to use against Sabine. She previously used Manyshot to just fire both silver and cold iron at Sabine at the same time. Then in a later battle with Sabine, she stabbed her with both types of arrows. But in each case, she never actually figured out what was effective. So the most likely explanation is Haley is using guesswork, and simply hoping adamantine would work against Sabine, because she's never been established in the comic as actually knowing for sure what the best way is to bypass Sabine's DR.

Just because we know it wouldn't work doesn't mean Haley would know before she tried.

[KillingAScarab]

One of Haley's wands is Magic Missle as per 973.

And the Giant has confirmed that.

It also appears to be a wand of magic missiles with a caster level of 5 (see Table: Wands). Otherwise, it would not have created three missiles.

One data point probably isn't enough for this, but would Haley have only purchased a wand with that low of a caster level to avoid the sort of mishap she had in panel 5 of #970?

[goto124]

Wouldn't adding the word 'Quickened' to the spell slow down the casting of the spell by a few microseconds? :P

[Peelee]

Wouldn't adding the word 'Quickened' to the spell slow down the casting of the spell by a few microseconds? :P

No. Magic.

[Kornaki]

It also appears to be a wand of magic missiles with a caster level of 5 (see Table: Wands). Otherwise, it would not have created three missiles.

One data point probably isn't enough for this, but would Haley have only purchased a wand with that low of a caster level to avoid the sort of mishap she had in panel 5 of #970?

Level 5 is the lowest level caster capable of making a wand, so it's not surprising that it's caster level 5.

[Kurald Galain]

Added MM wand to Haley, fixed link for Bounding Attack, changed wording of Icy Burst longbow, added explanation why Haley spent her abilities on feats.

[Douglas]

One data point probably isn't enough for this, but would Haley have only purchased a wand with that low of a caster level to avoid the sort of mishap she had in panel 5 of #970?

Wands all have the same Use Magic Device DC regardless of caster level.

[Quild]

Wouldn't adding the word 'Quickened' to the spell slow down the casting of the spell by a few microseconds? :P

You should see that differently. When you don't quicken the spell, you can't cast another one before 6 seconds (next round). During this delay, you can say the words, you won't cast a spell or do something else. Let say that you are mentally exhausted or whatever.

But with some exceptions, like quickening a spell. In this case, you don't have the "global cooldown" that you should have on your other spells or actions and you can do something else.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

You should see that differently. When you don't quicken the spell, you can't cast another one before 6 seconds (next round). During this delay, you can say the words, you won't cast a spell or do something else. Let say that you are mentally exhausted or whatever.

In regular D&D, that is a good explanation. In OotS, you don't need one. Magic is just a bitch that way: see V's despair at having to give the magic word: kill 6 pages of "alone" space in her spell book. And Xykon only being able to craft magic items for 8 hours a day, even though he doesn't sleep. Equally, quickened takes longer to say, but shorter to cast, because.

Grey Wolf

[Quild]

In regular D&D, that is a good explanation. In OotS, you don't need one. Magic is just a bitch that way: see V's despair at having to give the magic word: kill 6 pages of "alone" space in her spell book. And Xykon only being able to craft magic items for 8 hours a day, even though he doesn't sleep. Equally, quickened takes longer to say, but shorter to cast, because.

Grey Wolf

I know you know that, but maybe it's not clear to everyone.
The purpose of a quickening is not that the fireball will be thrown faster at it's target (I think the quickened dimensional anchor against Qarr was before I first played D&D and I thought the choice to quicken the spell was due to Qarr being quick and agile), it's that without the quickening, there would be only one (spell per round). Or one full action at least.

You don't see much it in oots, but casting a spell is not about just shouting it's name.
For instance, when V casts a fireball, s/he requires :
- Vocal components (incantation, or in oots, telling the spell's name)
- Somatic components (a precise hand gesture)
- Material components (in the case of Fireball, bat guano and sulfur)

This is why V says "I love the smell of bat guano in the morning." (also reference to Apocalypse Now) and why Redcloak taunts Tsukiko in #830 about the few spells she can casts while being grapled. Or why V can't use most of hir spell when polymorphed in a lizard.

This is also why O'Chul says "no more spells." when taking RC's holy symbol, which is required for most cleric spells (but Word of Recall does not require it).


Now, to quicken a spell still requires components. I don't think rules says why and how you can go faster, I guess you can interpret it as you want.
Maybe a quickened spell requires a shorter incantation, maybe the components are summoned in your hand instead of having to take them in the adequate pouch, maybe the hand gesture is not the same.


I totally failed my pun about Highlander, can't find any better :(

[illyahr]

I always felt that a Quickened spell had all of its components taken care of before hand and that's why it was faster. You'd say the words, do the gestures, and burn the materials and then hold the charge until later so you're just releasing the spell.

[littlebum2002]

Equally, quickened takes longer to say, but shorter to cast, because.

Grey Wolf

It sounded like you're saying "shorter to cast because Grey Wolf made it so"

[Peelee]

It sounded like you're saying "shorter to cast because Grey Wolf made it so"

Well, that's the rationale I give in my games. For a great many things.

[Chronos]

When you give that explanation, do the other players ever ask you who Grey Wolf is?