The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.

[Metahuman1]

"Hi dad, you should know that I'm dating Sato Asami"
"what, the owner of Sato Corporation?!?! That's good, they're stinking rich!"
"Yes dad but, did you hear me? I said Asami"
"yes, yes... Whatever you do, don't sign a prenup"
"but daddy, she's a girl!"
"Moneyyyyyy!!"

Not, not quite what I was picturing. *insert waterdroplet.*


Also, it's Asami Sato. LAB/LOK verse doesn't do the last names first thing. Like, ever, at least that I can recall. Even in the closest thing to a Japan analog we saw in either run.

[Chromascope3D]

Also, it's Asami Sato. LAB/LOK verse doesn't do the last names first thing. Like, ever, at least that I can recall. Even in the closest thing to a Japan analog we saw in either run.

Like, Toph is explicitly referred to as Toph Beifong, for instance, and her daughters the same way.

[Metahuman1]

Like, Toph is explicitly referred to as Toph Beifong, for instance, and her daughters the same way.

Yes, exactly.

[Kd7sov]

Not that last names are particularly common in the first place - I don't recall the Korraverse stats off the top of my head, but in Aang's run, I'm pretty sure we only got three: the Pippinpaddleopsicopolises, the Bei Fongs (yes, that was the spacing at the time, and I'm still annoyed it didn't stick), and the Fires.

(I do find it interesting that two of the three are entirely false names.)

[Chromascope3D]

Not that last names are particularly common in the first place - I don't recall the Korraverse stats off the top of my head, but in Aang's run, I'm pretty sure we only got three: the Pippinpaddleopsicopolises, the Bei Fongs (yes, that was the spacing at the time, and I'm still annoyed it didn't stick), and the Fires.

(I do find it interesting that two of the three are entirely false names.)

Well, it makes sense. Generally, only noble families such as the Beifongs would ever need to wave their names around because, as a noble family, that name is the only thing that carries weight in a conversation. The name Toph really doesn't mean much to most people, but the name Beifong does. Compare that to Zuko: Being royalty, he doesn't need to use a last name because everyone already knows who he is based on given name alone, being the son of a world leader and all. Suki is still essentially a peasant, so even if she does have a surname (which I'd assume so since everyone in China had them, including the commoners), it really wouldn't matter except in the case of a census. Inuits (Sokka and Katara, obvs.) simply didn't have family lineal names (they had patronymics instead), and I can only assume that, as a monk, Aang gave up his family name.

[Zevox]

I also did, but that's mainly because I kinda liked Prince Wu as a character. I can see why some people wouldn't, since he was pretty annoying, but he also made me laugh, which gave him points in my book.

Well yeah - part of the point of him is that he is annoying, but the other characters, including Mako, treat him as such. Which is part of what makes it entertaining to watch his dynamic with someone like Mako, who clearly doesn't like him at all until he starts developing into a better person later on, and is struggling to hold it in because his job and Wu's position force him to. The part where Wu does develop and get better helps a lot, too - if he stayed the same as he started he'd probably just be annoying, kind of like Meelo.

As for Korra's dad's reaction, I could sorta see it being amusing if he just completely never considered the possibility of his daughter dating a lady, and really isn't sure how to react to it at first.

I could possibly see that, but I think Tenzin might be a more likely candidate for that reaction.

Not that last names are particularly common in the first place - I don't recall the Korraverse stats off the top of my head, but in Aang's run, I'm pretty sure we only got three: the Pippinpaddleopsicopolises, the Bei Fongs (yes, that was the spacing at the time, and I'm still annoyed it didn't stick), and the Fires.

(I do find it interesting that two of the three are entirely false names.)

Yeah, discounting the faked ones, the only actual last names we know of for the whole setting are Beifong and Sato.

[Morty]

Zhu Li also has a last name, and Varrick turned out to be a last name in the first place, his first name being apparently Iknik. At this point, I'm pretty sure last names are assigned purely on the basis of plot necessity. With Toph and Asami, their family ties came as a surprise to other characters. Zhu Li and Varrick had the franchise's first and only on-screen wedding (we only saw the very end of Roku's wedding).

[Zevox]

Zhu Li also has a last name, and Varrick turned out to be a last name in the first place, his first name being apparently Iknik. At this point, I'm pretty sure last names are assigned purely on the basis of plot necessity. With Toph and Asami, their family ties came as a surprise to other characters. Zhu Li and Varrick had the franchise's first and only on-screen wedding (we only saw the very end of Roku's wedding).

Oh right, I'd forgotten about that.

And yeah, I'm sure the last names were mostly given out on an as-needed basis. The fact that Aang, Katara, and Sokka felt the need to invent false last names for their disguised personas alone would indicate that last names are a normal thing for most people in the Avatar world. We're just not given them most of the time because they don't matter, I suppose.

[Metahuman1]

Wasn't Long Feng a last name, or featured a last name?

Same with Ty Lee?

[Zevox]

Wasn't Long Feng a last name, or featured a last name?

Same with Ty Lee?

Hm, I'm not entirely sure. I never got the impression of that being the case for either of them, but nor can I think of any other example where names that get written out as two separate words are actually just a first name.

[Metahuman1]

I'm pretty sure somewhere in the comics they explained that Lee was actually Ty Lee's last name, when we met here sisters.

[Zevox]

I'm pretty sure somewhere in the comics they explained that Lee was actually Ty Lee's last name, when we met here sisters.

I'll take your word for it, since I never read the comics.

Still, it makes it a little odd that everyone always addresses her by her full name, never just by her first name.

[Metahuman1]

Names in this setting seem to be odd by nature. At least to our point of view. I kinda like it actually, gives the world character, makes it feel a bit less like "Our world with this extra thing."

[Morty]

Well, there's quite a few of the ATLA comics, as it turns out. I prooobably can't afford all of them. So I'm wondering if I should start from the beginning or pick a later one... I've heard Rift is considered better than the previous instalments, but I don't really trust this fandom that much.

I'm wondering if we'll see Kuvira in the comics. It appears they'll take place very shortly after the finale, with Korra and Asami's return from their vacation (which likely wasn't long, since they're both super-important people). Might some parts of them delve into her trial and sentence? Could be interesting and let them flesh out her character a bit more.

[Metahuman1]

Reading them in order is often a good plan.

[Zevox]

I'm wondering if we'll see Kuvira in the comics. It appears they'll take place very shortly after the finale, with Korra and Asami's return from their vacation (which likely wasn't long, since they're both super-important people). Might some parts of them delve into her trial and sentence? Could be interesting and let them flesh out her character a bit more.

Hm, could be I suppose, though I hope it isn't a big focus if so. I'd like to see it move on to a new story, like a new season of the show would, not linger too long on the fallout of book 4. Unless the new story is just that intimately tied to Kuvira's fate, of course.

[Metahuman1]

Well, remember, season 3 involved the fall out of season 2 fairly heavily, season 4 was heavily about the fall out form season 3 with a bit of season 2's fall out still in play. It would be logical to keep that trend going. Particularly since I'm sure by now the creators have heard loud and clear how livid some people were with them not agonizingly examining the fall out of season 1 all the time.

[Zevox]

Well, remember, season 3 involved the fall out of season 2 fairly heavily, season 4 was heavily about the fall out form season 3 with a bit of season 2's fall out still in play. It would be logical to keep that trend going. Particularly since I'm sure by now the creators have heard loud and clear how livid some people were with them not agonizingly examining the fall out of season 1 all the time.

The fallouts of season 2 and 3 lead into the main plot of the season after them, certainly, but I wouldn't say that either one was solely about that. The only effect of the portals being left open that season 3 emphasized was the return of airbending, for instance, and Zaheer only briefly showed up in season 4. For a follow-up to book 4, I'd expect the more important fallout from Kuvira's actions would logically center on the creation of a new Earth Nation, or on the effects of the new spirit portal being created in Republic City, not on Kuvira's personal fate.

[Morty]

Comic books are a completely different format than seasons of an animated show, so this comparison isn't very relevant anyway. I do agree that they should put focus on new stories rather than deal with the fallout, but some mention would not go amiss. Kuvira is the only LoK villain who might have a redemption of some sort in store for her.

[Zevox]

Comic books are a completely different format than seasons of an animated show, so this comparison isn't very relevant anyway. I do agree that they should put focus on new stories rather than deal with the fallout, but some mention would not go amiss. Kuvira is the only LoK villain who might have a redemption of some sort in store for her.

I hope not. After what she did, it would be hard for redemption to feel deserved. And it would require her to be a big focus of the story, which I'd rather she not be, personally.

[Morty]

That is fair. I did say "some sort" - I'm not talking about a full-blown redemption where she becomes BFFs with Korra. I'm mostly basing it on the fact that she actually does show some remorse for her actions, unlike the only other surviving LoK villain. Not like the other two would've shown any, if they hadn't died.

I'm not going to complain or anything if she doesn't show up in the comics. I'm just speculating.

[Metahuman1]

The fallouts of season 2 and 3 lead into the main plot of the season after them, certainly, but I wouldn't say that either one was solely about that. The only effect of the portals being left open that season 3 emphasized was the return of airbending, for instance, and Zaheer only briefly showed up in season 4. For a follow-up to book 4, I'd expect the more important fallout from Kuvira's actions would logically center on the creation of a new Earth Nation, or on the effects of the new spirit portal being created in Republic City, not on Kuvira's personal fate.

Sure, it's not like Zaheer killing the earth queen and sending the earth kingdom into mass chaos and Anarchy had a thing to do with season 4's plot line. Nor did Korra's injury's and problems resulting from that last fight in season 4 matter to the development of things between seasons 3 and 4 and what all happened with Korra on screen during season 4 Prior to the ep with Zaheer which was in the middle of the 4th season.

Ok, Tongue was in cheek with that statement, but, gotta admit there's kind of a point to it. And heck, the Spirit Vines from season 2 kinda mattered a fair bit in season 4 as well. So, yeah.

[Zevox]

That is fair. I did say "some sort" - I'm not talking about a full-blown redemption where she becomes BFFs with Korra. I'm mostly basing it on the fact that she actually does show some remorse for her actions, unlike the only other surviving LoK villain. Not like the other two would've shown any, if they hadn't died.

I'm not going to complain or anything if she doesn't show up in the comics. I'm just speculating.

That's fine. And I won't complain if she does show up or anything, I'm just wary about any sort of "redemption" story for her. And I definitely want the comics to have their own story to tell, not just be "Korra book 4: the aftermath."

Sure, it's not like Zaheer killing the earth queen and sending the earth kingdom into mass chaos and Anarchy had a thing to do with season 4's plot line. Nor did Korra's injury's and problems resulting from that last fight in season 4 matter to the development of things between seasons 3 and 4 and what all happened with Korra on screen during season 4 Prior to the ep with Zaheer which was in the middle of the 4th season.

Ok, Tongue was in cheek with that statement, but, gotta admit there's kind of a point to it. And heck, the Spirit Vines from season 2 kinda mattered a fair bit in season 4 as well. So, yeah.

Yes, which is what I meant by each season leading into the next. Book 3 more so than book 2, but even for that book 4 didn't linger on what happened to Zaheer for example, because it wasn't important to book 4's story.

[Ramza00]

Sure, it's not like Zaheer killing the earth queen and sending the earth kingdom into mass chaos and Anarchy had a thing to do with season 4's plot line. Nor did Korra's injury's and problems resulting from that last fight in season 4 matter to the development of things between seasons 3 and 4 and what all happened with Korra on screen during season 4 Prior to the ep with Zaheer which was in the middle of the 4th season.

Ok, Tongue was in cheek with that statement, but, gotta admit there's kind of a point to it. And heck, the Spirit Vines from season 2 kinda mattered a fair bit in season 4 as well. So, yeah.

I think you were missing the point and are changing the subject by accident.

Kuvira's actions prior to the end of the Book 4 Balance will very much influence the Comic Books. But Kuvira is no longer needed for the story to progress.

Just like Zaheer actions prior to the end of Book 3 Change will very much influence the Book 4 and Comic Book stories. Zaheer's previous actions still matter, but the character Zaheer is no longer needed for the story to progress. If Zaheer died at Laghima peak,

• Korra would still get poisoned and thus need to do rehab
• The Earth Queen would still be dead, and the Earth Kingdom still in chaos.

The only thing Zaheer did as a character in Season 4 was his tutoring of Korra to face her inner demons. From a storytelling task this could have just easily handled by any older mentor figure for Korra such as Tenzin or Toph from a storytelling perspective. It is only because Zaheer is charismatic and well liked by the fans that he got a cameo, if he physically died at Laghima Peak the whole story would have the same general effect. This is called railroading where the narrator of the story would still tell the same general story but would change minor details involving NPC such as Tenzin, Toph, Zaheer, etc to return the story to the general "plan" when something unexpected occurs.

Hell it could have been done by Asami who teaches Korra to move on and to let the past go. Yes Asami has previously shown no spiritual connection besides playing Paio Sho. Even so it would be quite easy to use this present difficulty to give Asami and Korra some bonded time and have them further develop their inner connection and intimacy.

Your points about Unalaq's actions still mattering in Book 3 and 4 even though he died in Book 2 actually demonstrates the entire point that Kuvira is no longer needed for the story to progress. Kuvira's actions in the past with the Earth Empire and the Giant Mech will still have occurred if Kuvira dies of a heartattack 1 day after Korra and Asami end their mini vacation.



Now this does not mean Kuvira will not be important in the future, she may be. But her "arc" from a storytelling perspective has ended, pretty much all of her ends that need her as a specific character have been tied up. Any of the loose ends that still exist post Book 4 in Korra do not need Kuvira to show up again.

[LaZodiac]

I'd argue Zaheer fits as a better mentor in this situation due to his...lets say first hand experience with extremism. He'd know better about the kind of person Kuvira is.

[Zevox]

I'd argue Zaheer fits as a better mentor in this situation due to his...lets say first hand experience with extremism. He'd know better about the kind of person Kuvira is.

Korra wasn't asking him for advice about Kuvira, though. She needed help overcoming her own PTSD-induced mental blocks so she could enter the spirit world, and get back to her full strength.

[LaZodiac]

Korra wasn't asking him for advice about Kuvira, though. She needed help overcoming her own PTSD-induced mental blocks so she could enter the spirit world, and get back to her full strength.

True, but if I recall there was something about learning from the mistakes of her unbalanced enemies that helped as well.

Also, for what it's worth...Zaheer is also the only guy other then Iroh that Korra knows that would be able to GIVE her that kind of spiritual advice.

[Morty]

Having Zaheer help Korra with overcoming her PTSD was better than if one of her mentors, friends or family had done it, I think. By accepting his help, Korra quite tangibly let go of what had happened, stopped fighting old battles and focused on the present one. He hurt her, but that's not going to be undone, and he can't hurt anyone else. So if he offers help, she can take it.

And on Zaheer's side, it's part of makes him fairly nuanced and interesting. He bears no personal enmity towards Korra and even respects her strength. Killing her was simply what he thought was necessary to realize his vision of the world. And when it turned out that his actions had given rise to the kind of person he hated, he was willing to help Korra set it straight. This detachment makes him stand out from the other Avatar villains.

[Metahuman1]

I think you were missing the point and are changing the subject by accident.

Kuvira's actions prior to the end of the Book 4 Balance will very much influence the Comic Books. But Kuvira is no longer needed for the story to progress.

Just like Zaheer actions prior to the end of Book 3 Change will very much influence the Book 4 and Comic Book stories. Zaheer's previous actions still matter, but the character Zaheer is no longer needed for the story to progress. If Zaheer died at Laghima peak,

• Korra would still get poisoned and thus need to do rehab
• The Earth Queen would still be dead, and the Earth Kingdom still in chaos.

The only thing Zaheer did as a character in Season 4 was his tutoring of Korra to face her inner demons. From a storytelling task this could have just easily handled by any older mentor figure for Korra such as Tenzin or Toph from a storytelling perspective. It is only because Zaheer is charismatic and well liked by the fans that he got a cameo, if he physically died at Laghima Peak the whole story would have the same general effect. This is called railroading where the narrator of the story would still tell the same general story but would change minor details involving NPC such as Tenzin, Toph, Zaheer, etc to return the story to the general "plan" when something unexpected occurs.

Hell it could have been done by Asami who teaches Korra to move on and to let the past go. Yes Asami has previously shown no spiritual connection besides playing Paio Sho. Even so it would be quite easy to use this present difficulty to give Asami and Korra some bonded time and have them further develop their inner connection and intimacy.

Your points about Unalaq's actions still mattering in Book 3 and 4 even though he died in Book 2 actually demonstrates the entire point that Kuvira is no longer needed for the story to progress. Kuvira's actions in the past with the Earth Empire and the Giant Mech will still have occurred if Kuvira dies of a heartattack 1 day after Korra and Asami end their mini vacation.



Now this does not mean Kuvira will not be important in the future, she may be. But her "arc" from a storytelling perspective has ended, pretty much all of her ends that need her as a specific character have been tied up. Any of the loose ends that still exist post Book 4 in Korra do not need Kuvira to show up again.

I seem to recall something about the seasons not mattering much and not dealing with there respective fall outs much if at all.

I was trying to point out that there is significant evidence to the contrary of this. Yes, Zaheer's Cameo doesn't change anything else, but that's not the point I was making. The point I was making was that Zaheer's actions in season 3 and Evil Uncle's in Season 2 were directly relevant to season 4's plot cause otherwise you don't have Kuvira as Dictator, you don't have Korra out of action for 3 years when she's needed or spending better then the first half of season 4 still recovering, you don't have the spirit vines for Verrick to experiment with and thus no super weapon, so on.







With regards to Rehab: In this world, it's not inconceivable, but it would be difficult. (Possibly requiring an act of intentional self sacrifice to save other peoples lives.)

Keeping in mind also that again, they might follow part of the precedent set in the LAB comics, and they did make an effort to make Kuvira sort of a dark reflection of Korra which didn't get to pay off quite as much as might have been liked (I blame nick cutting eps.) so now would be a chance to follow up on that a bit more. (Let's not forget the first 2 LAB comics were about the fate of the fire nation colony's and figuring out how that was gonna work, and finding Zuko's Mom while continuing the story of Azula's break down, respectively. )

[Zevox]

And on Zaheer's side, it's part of makes him fairly nuanced and interesting. He bears no personal enmity towards Korra and even respects her strength. Killing her was simply what he thought was necessary to realize his vision of the world. And when it turned out that his actions had given rise to the kind of person he hated, he was willing to help Korra set it straight. This detachment makes him stand out from the other Avatar villains.

Very true. As came up back when we were still just discussing the show in general, Zaheer is perhaps the one villain in the show that never comes across as a hypocrite, and being willing to help Korra when he hears about Kuvira certainly helps cement that.

I seem to recall something about the seasons not mattering much and not dealing with there respective fall outs much if at all.

You're remembering something which was never said, then.