Pillars of Eternity

[Avilan the Grey]

I have been stuck at Character Creation for an hour now.
I can't come up with a name.

It's extra difficult because I don't know the naming conventions in this new world. Normally I have an easy time with names, because I just google a list of fitting names (Celtic, Germanic, etc) and pick one that both sounds good and fits the character. This time I'm flying blind.

[The Glyphstone]

I have been stuck at Character Creation for an hour now.
I can't come up with a name.

It's extra difficult because I don't know the naming conventions in this new world. Normally I have an easy time with names, because I just google a list of fitting names (Celtic, Germanic, etc) and pick one that both sounds good and fits the character. This time I'm flying blind.

*looks at his barbarian Croman with a slightly guilty expression*

[Cespenar]

I have been stuck at Character Creation for an hour now.
I can't come up with a name.

It's extra difficult because I don't know the naming conventions in this new world. Normally I have an easy time with names, because I just google a list of fitting names (Celtic, Germanic, etc) and pick one that both sounds good and fits the character. This time I'm flying blind.

There are a lot of Celtic names in the game, fyi. If you really care, you can look up the nations in the game from the wiki and pick a name according to where your character hails from as well, I guess.

[Tehnar]

I love the game, but I have a fairly major beef with a mechanic, the armor recovery speed. Basically I am at the point that everyone except the tank is walking around naked. While for the barbarian it might be fluffy, it still a too great benefit. And since most of the enemies are melee, and for the few ranged usually just target the tank anyway there is almost no point in anyone else wearing armor.

[Aotrs Commander]

I love the game, but I have a fairly major beef with a mechanic, the armor recovery speed. Basically I am at the point that everyone except the tank is walking around naked. While for the barbarian it might be fluffy, it still a too great benefit. And since most of the enemies are melee, and for the few ranged usually just target the tank anyway there is almost no point in anyone else wearing armor.

I think that sort of says they did it right, in that there is a game in which anyone can wear armour, but the checks and balances mean that it's nt an automatic given that eveyone does. If they made the penalty for armour much less, likely all it would mean is all characters WOULD wear full plate.

Perhaps one might argue it needs some fine tuning, but I think the basic idea actually works.

[Tehnar]

I think that sort of says they did it right, in that there is a game in which anyone can wear armour, but the checks and balances mean that it's nt an automatic given that eveyone does. If they made the penalty for armour much less, likely all it would mean is all characters WOULD wear full plate.

Perhaps one might argue it needs some fine tuning, but I think the basic idea actually works.

I don't agree it is a good mechanic, especially in a computer game. The DR bonus is not that great compared to the damage monsters deal, and the benefit of having no armor is huge. 20 to 50 % increased attack/ability speed is huge, easily enough to counteract the increased damage you take by monsters beating on your tank.

I think it would be much better to restrict armor by classes rather then going this route. It just looks silly that on my most recent fight with Ogres everyone is naked. Since you get KO in 3 hits anyway regardless of DR, even the tank is naked.

[Cyber Punk]

On naming: I just picked a random name. Usually I pick names that fit the character, or I make up names. For instance:
Fallout NV: Crazy B**** (evil karma)
SR Dragonfall: Foxy L (theme)
Pillars Of Eternity: Frul'l (random)

A question: Do I have to rest after each battle just to restore health, or is there another way?

[huttj509]

I don't agree it is a good mechanic, especially in a computer game. The DR bonus is not that great compared to the damage monsters deal, and the benefit of having no armor is huge. 20 to 50 % increased attack/ability speed is huge, easily enough to counteract the increased damage you take by monsters beating on your tank.

I think it would be much better to restrict armor by classes rather then going this route. It just looks silly that on my most recent fight with Ogres everyone is naked. Since you get KO in 3 hits anyway regardless of DR, even the tank is naked.

Does it also affect reload speed for pistol/arbalests?

[Tehnar]

Does it also affect reload speed for pistol/arbalests?

Yes. Kana is much more effective without armor as it also affects his chanting rate and therefore his spellcasting.

[Aotrs Commander]

I don't agree it is a good mechanic, especially in a computer game. The DR bonus is not that great compared to the damage monsters deal, and the benefit of having no armor is huge. 20 to 50 % increased attack/ability speed is huge, easily enough to counteract the increased damage you take by monsters beating on your tank.

I think it would be much better to restrict armor by classes rather then going this route. It just looks silly that on my most recent fight with Ogres everyone is naked. Since you get KO in 3 hits anyway regardless of DR, even the tank is naked.

But if they don't do something like that you get exactly what you get in D&D 3.5 - there are, in practise, only about three armour types, because every class wears the heaviest armour they're allowed (none, leather/chainshirt/full plate maybe breastplate, but there were very few class that were resticted to only medium armour). That was - as stated early on - explicitly NOT what Obsidian wanted or were going to do.

(Point of note - it slows your recovery speed - the time between actions, rather than the speed of your actions. What effect this going to have opractically will depend on what the actual time of what recovery speeds are as to whether this makes a significant difference.)

Like I say, perhaps it needs tweaking, but the inherent idea is slightly more sound than D&D's arbitary restrictions (which always were arbitatary and justified after the fact) - or even Rolemaster's "everyone can wear armour, but spell casters get restricted because... um... because (as if spellcasters in RM didn't suffer enough until really high level) but you have to spend all the development point to learn to do it, meaning that in practise, most character won't.")

Also - from a realism point of view, if we want to look at that - no-one ever wore full plate (or heavy heavy armour) all the time, because exhaustion was a thing. (Plus you had to have a lad come round before the battle with a cup you could wee into.) So everyone walking round in fairly minimal or no armour is more realisitic. (Whether you consider that in and of itself to be a good thing, of course...)

(Come to that, it sort of makes sense for only the tanks to be wearing heavy armour... Meaning you sort of get the sort of thing you see in the movies (and many novels), rather than a straight D&D clone...)

[Tehnar]

But if they don't do something like that you get exactly what you get in D&D 3.5 - there are, in practise, only about three armour types, because every class wears the heaviest armour they're allowed (none, leather/chainshirt/full plate maybe breastplate, but there were very few class that were resticted to only medium armour). That was - as stated early on - explicitly NOT what Obsidian wanted or were going to do.

(Point of note - it slows your recovery speed - the time between actions, rather than the speed of your actions. What effect this going to have opractically will depend on what the actual time of what recovery speeds are as to whether this makes a significant difference.)

Like I say, perhaps it needs tweaking, but the inherent idea is slightly more sound than D&D's arbitary restrictions (which always were arbitatary and justified after the fact) - or even Rolemaster's "everyone can wear armour, but spell casters get restricted because... um... because (as if spellcasters in RM didn't suffer enough until really high level) but you have to spend all the development point to learn to do it, meaning that in practise, most character won't.")

Also - from a realism point of view, if we want to look at that - no-one ever wore full plate (or heavy heavy armour) all the time, because exhaustion was a thing. (Plus you had to have a lad come round before the battle with a cup you could wee into.) So everyone walking round in fairly minimal or no armour is more realisitic. (Whether you consider that in and of itself to be a good thing, of course...)

(Come to that, it sort of makes sense for only the tanks to be wearing heavy armour... Meaning you sort of get the sort of thing you see in the movies (and many novels), rather than a straight D&D clone...)

So implement a fatigue system. Or make different armors give different types of DR to elements / attacks. Right now it is set up, the wizard actually doesn't mind wearing full plate because he usually doesn't spam his spells, but autoattackers suffer.

Basically you have for weapons a cycle is: Attack animation (X frames) + Recovery (Y frames)
Or for a ranged weapon a cycle is: Attack animation+recovery+reload animation+recovery.

So if every action takes 20 frames, then 50% increase recovery increases (slows) your attack rate by 20%. However as recovery times are slower for heavier weapons that means that there is a small penalty for a full plate user to wield a rapier and a large penalty to wield a pike.

[factotum]

If your back-end units are running around naked, what happens when a Shadow teleports right on top of them and starts beating them down? Or you end up in one of the innumerable situations where you haven't been able to lay out your units just so before the fight starts and somebody is able to go round the tank(s) and attack the rear?

[Ailurus]

A question: Do I have to rest after each battle just to restore health, or is there another way?

It's broken up into two parts.

Endurance is the amount of damage you can take in a battle before getting knocked out (represented by the red shading covering your portrait in battle). That auto-restores at the end of the battle, and is what healing spells target, and k/o'd characters will get back up perfectly fine once the battle ends.

Heath is the small vertical bar on the left hand side of the portrait that changes color as it get's smaller. If that goes to 0 (every time you get hit, you lose that much endurance and that much health), then you die (or get maimed and then die depending on your settings). There are a few feats that will let characters restore a small amount of health, but generally only resting will fix it (and the restore health feats are generally 1 use/rest)

That said, you really shouldn't need to rest after every battle. The tanky classes (fighters, paladins, barbarians) have 5-6x as much health as endurance, which means they can be knocked out multiple times before you need to worry about them dying. And employing positioning, the engagement system, crowd control/debuffing spells, etc. for most fights you should be able to ensure that a well-geared tank character takes very little damage. So, there's no real need to worry about keeping everyone's health constantly topped off. Unless I've got people down around 30-40% health or lower, or I'm going into a fight where I suspect there will be heavy AoE damage (such as scouting revealing casters up ahead) or it's a boss fight I don't really worry about resting.

[Tehnar]

If your back-end units are running around naked, what happens when a Shadow teleports right on top of them and starts beating them down? Or you end up in one of the innumerable situations where you haven't been able to lay out your units just so before the fight starts and somebody is able to go round the tank(s) and attack the rear?

Since I am playing on Path of the Damned, if a semi hard combat comes and the enemies come around my tanks the combat is usually over anyway armor or no armor. Being surprised is a usually a death sentence, hence I sneak around all the time. Large shadow packs are fought back to back against the wall, so they can't teleport to hit the naked dudes behind.

[Morty]

On the one hand, I like games that give incentives not to put on the heaviest armour available. On the other hand, I disapprove of things that contribute to combat looking like a performance by sleepy reenactors. All-or-nothing situations where you either strap on heavy plate or run around in your underthings aren't ideal either.

[Chen]

How does armor DR work anyways? Is it a flat amount removed from all damage you take? I notice full plate is DR12 and then in brackets its 15 vs slash and pierce (I think) and 6 vs shock. Does that mean vs fire its the base 12? Or that it has no DR vs fire?

I'm trying to figure out how to make the cleric dude a bit more tanky and it just isn't working well. I'm getting to the point where just making Eder tank and giving everyone else a gun seems like the best plan.

Also note that a blunderbuss on a cipher with draining whip is awesome. And the paralyze level 2 cipher spell is horribly OP.

[Cespenar]

How does armor DR work anyways? Is it a flat amount removed from all damage you take? I notice full plate is DR12 and then in brackets its 15 vs slash and pierce (I think) and 6 vs shock. Does that mean vs fire its the base 12? Or that it has no DR vs fire?

The higher numbers are what that particular armor is good against, the lower numbers are what it's weak against. So, full plate is DR 15 to slash/pierce, DR 6 to shock, and 12 to everything else.

Also note that a blunderbuss on a cipher with draining whip is awesome. And the paralyze level 2 cipher spell is horribly OP.

Awesome though it may be, I think due to the Focus building mechanic a weapon with a greater attack speed is more effective. Like a wand or something.

[tonberrian]

How does armor DR work anyways? Is it a flat amount removed from all damage you take? I notice full plate is DR12 and then in brackets its 15 vs slash and pierce (I think) and 6 vs shock. Does that mean vs fire its the base 12? Or that it has no DR vs fire?

I'm trying to figure out how to make the cleric dude a bit more tanky and it just isn't working well. I'm getting to the point where just making Eder tank and giving everyone else a gun seems like the best plan.

Also note that a blunderbuss on a cipher with draining whip is awesome. And the paralyze level 2 cipher spell is horribly OP.

The way I figure it, yes. Your DR is what's removed from all damage, with exceptions below it. I found that Durance is a lot more tanky if you switch him to hatchet and board, and you upgrade his armor from robes to at least Padded. With Kana restoring endurance by chanting he's not bad, but he's not nearly tanky enough to swing his staff around.

[Zombimode]

Since I am playing on Path of the Damned, if a semi hard combat comes and the enemies come around my tanks the combat is usually over anyway armor or no armor. Being surprised is a usually a death sentence, hence I sneak around all the time. Large shadow packs are fought back to back against the wall, so they can't teleport to hit the naked dudes behind.

Well, complaining about the balance of mechanics while playing on a difficulty that explicitly screws with the balance is a bit besides the point, don't you think?
On Path of the Damned, enemies deal double damage. No wonder you think that armor is useless since its quite likely balanced around normal damage values.

[Tehnar]

Well, complaining about the balance of mechanics while playing on a difficulty that explicitly screws with the balance is a bit besides the point, don't you think?
On Path of the Damned, enemies deal double damage. No wonder you think that armor is useless since its quite likely balanced around normal damage values.

I was aware it gave bonuses to monster stats, though was unaware they amounted to double the damage (mostly thought the bonuses were to secondary stats, like deflection). With that in mind, I will amend my earlier position somewhat in that armor is more useful for those who have to wear it (tanks), but still other roles are better off not wearing any.

[Chen]

Awesome though it may be, I think due to the Focus building mechanic a weapon with a greater attack speed is more effective. Like a wand or something.

Blunderbuss shoots 6 projectiles though. And each gains the 2 focus from draining whip. Making it a fantastic way to keep focus up.

The way I figure it, yes. Your DR is what's removed from all damage, with exceptions below it. I found that Durance is a lot more tanky if you switch him to hatchet and board, and you upgrade his armor from robes to at least Padded. With Kana restoring endurance by chanting he's not bad, but he's not nearly tanky enough to swing his staff around.

Yeah I did give him a fiery hatchet I found and a shield, along with some mail armor. It does seem to help a bit. I was just wondering whether the 9 DR is worth the 35% slower attack/cast rate. Is there a way to turn on damage floaters for your guys? I can't tell how hard I'm actually getting hit, I just notice those monster hits that make my portrait half red.

[Cespenar]

Blunderbuss shoots 6 projectiles though. And each gains the 2 focus from draining whip. Making it a fantastic way to keep focus up.

Didn't know that. Pretty cool.

[Rising Phoenix]

Started my 2nd game...

Ended up going with a Human rogue this time now. High Might, Dex, Perception, moderate Intellect. He dual wields and has a gun and his crits and sneak attacks are ridiculously OP (60+ as at level 4). Tactic at these stage is: Send him, fire a shot, run and hide behind tank

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As for Raedric. I sneak attacked one of his guards, ran back to the entrance towards the temple on the upper level, had tank block the entrance while the two mages showered the mob with debuffs... Raedric makes short work of his mages if he's confused

And hey I wanted his sword Justice

A shame that you can only have one active trap at a time

[factotum]

That said, you really shouldn't need to rest after every battle. The tanky classes (fighters, paladins, barbarians) have 5-6x as much health as endurance, which means they can be knocked out multiple times before you need to worry about them dying.

Slight caveat there--since healing spells and the Fighter's natural endurance regeneration don't affect health, it's possible to lose a lot more health in a big furball than you'd think because the endurance keeps getting topped up but the health is always draining away. I've often come out of a difficult fight with my previously fully-rested tanks down to half health or less, even though they were never knocked out at all!

[tonberrian]

Can anyone confirm or deny the Lash enchantments being increased by the elemental specialization talents? As far as I can tell they ignore DR and add 25% of pre-dr damage.

[Aotrs Commander]

I was aware it gave bonuses to monster stats, though was unaware they amounted to double the damage (mostly thought the bonuses were to secondary stats, like deflection). With that in mind, I will amend my earlier position somewhat in that armor is more useful for those who have to wear it (tanks), but still other roles are better off not wearing any.

Yes, if the enemies are doing double damage, it really kinda doesn't matter much what you do, so you probably are better off acting faster. (As someone mentioned on the Obsidian forums, though, under normal circumstances with criticals - and grazes - being tied to accuracy, armour is very useful when tied to a good deflection, since the amount of grazes you get - which of course is better for DR.) But as Tehnar says, it is something of a more niche case.

(Incidently, were I Obsidian, I would have ensured there were fairly numerous enemies with high accruacy and rate of fire but low damage output, which would chew through unarmed characters like they were going out of business, but were nearly negated by armour. Checks and counters for everything... I my opnion, there should never be a "best" solution, only one that forces you to make a difficult decision abouts trade off. Since making difficult decisions is what it's all really about.)

Just a quick query, are we entirely sure the enemies do get a damage bonus in path of the damned (I'm not sure either way and I can't check myself since PoE is on my other hard drive) - if they in fact get a +50% bonus to accuracy, it means they will persumably get a lot more critical hits... so the effect might be they appear to be dealing double damage. Might be worth checking, as in the latter case, there is probably more you can do about it.



Otherwise, it might be like Heat of Fury mode, which I tried not all that long ago. Which is basically impossible unless you have built your party specifically for it the first playthrough, because many option become useless. (E.g. all melee attackers...) I basically had to crack open DaleKeeper and fiddle with my party to put them in a position where they could use bows better so as to... not die. I got as far as Act 2, before I got bored of having to basically fight every combat exactly the same way (summon as many bone guards as possible, locate enemy, send bone guards foward, attempt to web/entangle/briar web enemies in place and shoot from a distance while bone guards tanked.) I just wasn't interesting, since they'd not bothered to do anything other than Make The Numbers Higher. I was under the impression they'd worked quite a lot more on Path of the Damned though, which presumably means you won't have to get into a situation where your build is negated.

[Cikomyr]

While researching ways to have fun with my Riposte Rogue, i discovered online that there is a bug regarding Reckless Assault not ever.turning off. Is it still a thing?

Also, with relatively high might (16), should i go for Hatchet/Shield in order to maximize deflection, or should i compromize and go for either 2 Hatchets, or maybe a heavier weapon?

I love the fact that an unconventional build might still be viable. Non-dex rogue ftw!!

[Avilan the Grey]

There are a lot of Celtic names in the game, fyi. If you really care, you can look up the nations in the game from the wiki and pick a name according to where your character hails from as well, I guess.

But that's the problem, I don't know the naming conventions for the nations.

It's not a major thing, but I just get frustrated when I can't come up with a good name. This morning I had to cancel my character creation because I hadn't come up with one in 30 minutes and i had to go to work.

[Ailurus]

Slight caveat there--since healing spells and the Fighter's natural endurance regeneration don't affect health, it's possible to lose a lot more health in a big furball than you'd think because the endurance keeps getting topped up but the health is always draining away. I've often come out of a difficult fight with my previously fully-rested tanks down to half health or less, even though they were never knocked out at all!

True, but how many big fights like that are there (unless you're punching way above your level)? Halfwayish through act 2, and the only ones where my Paladin tank got seriously injured in one fight that did not also involve everyone else getting hammered down by AoE damage were (at least on Hard)

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Killing Raedric
The drake boss in in Od Nua, and a multi-drake pull in Stormfall gorge
The banshee (mini)boss in Heritage Hill

AoE damage (which seems to be becoming more frequent as the game progresses) or a mob deciding to go after the Cipher or Rogue tends to drop someone's HP percentage a lot more than several fights do to the tank.

[tonberrian]

I am stricken with a sudden desire to play an implement weilder with the x1.25 damage for 3 life/attack talent. What class would do that best?