Wizard / Sorcerer Hybrid

[Laserlight]

Last month we talked about whether I should build a wizard or a sorcerer. Given how unreasonable my stats are, I said "Why not both?" Posting mainly because the board is slow. I'll either take this, or a straight Pyro wizard, to this week's session.

Spoiler: Wizard Sorcerer Hybrid

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
WizSorcHybrid, level 6
Pixie, Sorcerer/Wizard
Sorcerous Power Option: Sorcerous Power Dexterity
Eldritch Harlequin (Eldritch Harlequin Benefit)
Theme: Sarifal Feywarden

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 12, CON 16, DEX 18, INT 22, WIS 16, CHA 22

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 12, CON 16, DEX 18, INT 19, WIS 16, CHA 19


AC: 21 Fort: 16 Ref: 19 Will: 21
HP: 47 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 11

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +14, Bluff +15, Thievery +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +7, Athletics +4, Diplomacy +9, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +6, Heal +6, History +9, Insight +6, Intimidate +9, Nature +10, Perception +6, Religion +9, Stealth +9, Streetwise +9

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Sarifal Feywarden Utility: Sarifal's Blessing
Pixie Utility: Pixie Dust
Pixie Utility: Shrink
Wizard Utility: Prestidigitation
Wizard Utility: Ghost Sound
Wizard Utility: Light
Wizard Utility: Suggestion
Sorcerer Attack 1: Blazing Starfall
Wizard Attack 1: Thunderwave
Sorcerer Attack 1: Explosive Pyre
Wizard Attack 1: Flaming Sphere
Wizard Utility 2: Moonstride
Wizard Attack 3: Color Spray
Sorcerer Attack 5: Thunder Leap
Sorcerer Utility 6: Arcane Empowerment

FEATS
Level 1: Enlarge Spell
Level 2: Superior Implement Training (Accurate staff)
Level 4: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 6: Unarmored Agility

ITEMS
Accurate staff of Ruin +2 x1
Magic Dagger +2

====== End ======

[Kurald Galain]

Well, I see a decent blaster wizard build, but I'm not sure what the sorcerer half is adding to it? I think a pure wizard would serve you better.

Note that Dual Implement Spellcaster isn't very good until mid-paragon tier, and that Unarmored Agility is not really needed with int-to-AC and defensive utilities.

[Sol]

I guess this is a case where you can do this, but it still doesn't really make much sense to IMO. The feat sets that benefit each class are largely different, and I'm not sure there's room for both sets without leaving your defenses wide-open.

But if you think it's fun, go for it.

[Laserlight]

Well, I see a decent blaster wizard build, but I'm not sure what the sorcerer half is adding to it? I think a pure wizard would serve you better.

Note that Dual Implement Spellcaster isn't very good until mid-paragon tier, and that Unarmored Agility is not really needed with int-to-AC and defensive utilities.

Sorc adds, well, extra flavor. Dagger as implement. A few more points of damage on the at-will. The feats overlap, mostly, thus far...okay, mostly flavor. The board was slow. :-)

I'm leaning toward the Pyro Wizard. I'm curious as to what you'd take in lieu of DIS, though?

Spoiler: Pure Wizard

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Aedhan, level 6
Pixie, Wizard (Mage)
School: Pyromancy School
School: Illusion School
Expert Mage Option: Illusion School Expert
Eldritch Harlequin (Eldritch Harlequin Benefit)
Theme: Sarifal Feywarden


STR 13, CON 18, DEX 16, INT 22, WIS 16, CHA 21


AC: 21 Fort: 18 Ref: 20 Will: 21
HP: 48 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 12

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +14, Bluff +16, History +14, Nature +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Athletics +4, Diplomacy +8, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +7, Heal +6, Insight +6, Intimidate +8, Perception +6, Religion +9, Stealth +10, Streetwise +8, Thievery +7

POWERS
Sarifal Feywarden Utility: Sarifal's Blessing

Pixie Utility: Pixie Dust
Pixie Utility: Shrink

Wizard Utility: Ghost Sound
Wizard Utility: Prestidigitation
Wizard Utility: Light

Wizard Attack 1: Flaming Sphere
Wizard Attack 1: Horrid Whispers
Wizard Attack 1: Burning Hands
Wizard Attack 1: Grasping Shadows
Wizard Attack 1: Winged Horde
Wizard Attack 1: Thunderwave
Wizard Attack 1: Magic Missile

Wizard Utility 2: Moonstride
History Utility 2: Root Understanding

Wizard Attack 3: Color Spray
Wizard Attack 3: Fire Shroud

Wizard Attack 5: Visions of Avarice
Wizard Attack 5: Summon Magma Beast

Bluff Utility 6: Fast Talk
Pixie Utility 6: Pixie Invisibility

FEATS
Level 1: Superior Implement Training (Accurate staff)
Level 2: Staff Expertise
Level 4: Enlarge Spell

ITEMS
Spirit Fetch
Accurate staff of Ruin +2 x1
Siberys Shard of the Mage (heroic tier)
Cape of the Mountebank +1 x1
Summoned Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +2 x1
Viper Belt x1

Make Whole
Tenser's Floating Disk
Pyrotechnics
Enchant Magic Item
Transfer Enchantment

====== End ======

[Sol]

is Pixie a requirement?

Genasi and Tieflings make by far the best blasters due to racial support.

[Laserlight]

is Pixie a requirement?

Genasi and Tieflings make by far the best blasters due to racial support.

Pixie is necessary.

[Kurald Galain]

Some suggestions,

Pyromancy combines best with Evocation, and the damage bonuses stack.
Sarifal is a good pick, and one of the reasons to not go tiefling or genasi (since neither of those races is fey).
Note that there are some good cantrips out there, particularly those that let you roll Arcana for another skill.
As your L1 spell, check out Orbmaster's Incendiary Detonation. It's an enlargeable fire spell that knocks enemies prone.
Also, any pyromancer should look into Fire Shield at level 6. It's a solid selection of spells otherwise.
I generally prefer starting with "flashy" feats like Arcane Familiar instead of "numerical bonus" feats like expertise. YMMV on that. Kudos on taking Enlarge Spell, it's vital to any blaster.
Finally, I see you've already got resist poison; I recommend also getting an item of resisting fire, because that's another common damage type and of course a pyromancer should be able to deal with that.

[Laserlight]

>Pyromancy combines best with Evocation, and the damage bonuses stack.

The Evocation buff adds approximately 0.42 to a 1d6 or 0.44 to a 1d8, assuming I have the arithmetic right; it'd be better for a 2d but I don't have sufficient caffeine to cope with the probability yet. By comparison, Illusion means I can hand out a -2 to hit debuff to everyone I hit with an Illusion power ("hello, Burst 5 Vision of Avarice"). Is that 0.44 damage really that much better?

>Note that there are some good cantrips out there, particularly those that let you roll Arcana for another skill.

I was tempted by Chameleon's Mask and Suggestion, but stealth is low-value in this campaign and no sane person will want Manic Pyro Pixie to be the party face, even if we didn't have a bard. And Ghost Sounds means my life will have background music.

>As your L1 spell, check out Orbmaster's Incendiary Detonation.

And the zone is friendly, unlike Grasping Shadows -- good catch. Change made.

>Finally, I see you've already got resist poison; I recommend also getting an item of resisting fire, because that's another common damage type and of course a pyromancer should be able to deal with that.

For the foreseeable future we're fighting Lolth's minions, and it's almost all poison and necrotic.

[Redrhino10]

Sorry if this isn't as relevant to your question, but what are the main differences between the two?
I was also thinking perhaps looking at these differences would help you build a balanced sensible hybrid?

[Sol]

Sorry if this isn't as relevant to your question, but what are the main differences between the two?
I was also thinking perhaps looking at these differences would help you build a balanced sensible hybrid?

• One is a striker, the other a controller. If you attempt to build the controller half as a striker, you can be successful, but doing so as a hybrid leads to the same issue all Striker|Striker hybrids have: you cannot benefit from both striker features at the same time.
• They have no stat crossover. This is mitigated to a large degree by wizards' lack of a secondary stat and by the OP's abnormally high (rolled?) stats.
• The best sorcerer feats do not work on wizard powers; the best wizard feats do not work on sorcerer powers.

Other than flavor, which is mainly a dichotomy between innate and learned magical prowess, those are the key differences.

[Laserlight]

Sorry if this isn't as relevant to your question, but what are the main differences between the two?
I was also thinking perhaps looking at these differences would help you build a balanced sensible hybrid?

Sorc does Area Damage and a little bit of control. Blaster Wizard does Area Damage and more control. Both Arcane power. Wizard wants INT, Sorcerer wants CHA and DEX (for a Storm or Wild build).

The main reason I want Sorc, specifically Wild Sorc, is because I'm having a hard time swallowing "He has the personality of a three year old child with a Red Bull addiction....and he's a focused scholar of magical knowledge." But at the end of the day, that's fluff and can be ignored.

"Sensible hybrid" is something on a contrdiction in terms; you're usually better not to hybrid. The only thing that makes this one plausible is that my DMs have an oddball way of generating stats, and I regularly sacrifice kittens to the Dice Gods.

[Sol]

Sorc does Area Damage and a little bit of control. Blaster Wizard does Area Damage and more control. Both Arcane power. Wizard wants INT, Sorcerer wants CHA and DEX (for a Storm or Wild build).

The main reason I want Sorc, specifically Wild Sorc, is because I'm having a hard time swallowing "He has the personality of a three year old child with a Red Bull addiction....and he's a focused scholar of magical knowledge." But at the end of the day, that's fluff and can be ignored.

"Sensible hybrid" is something on a contrdiction in terms; you're usually better not to hybrid. The only thing that makes this one plausible is that my DMs have an oddball way of generating stats, and I regularly sacrifice kittens to the Dice Gods.

Just because he's highly learned doesn't mean it's scholarly high learning which lead to a prim and proper demeanor. Even taking the stock fluff leaves you with innumerable options.

A wizard could very easily be:

• an insane recluse, muttering nonsense to themselves, clawing pseudo-sensical runes into a cave, in response to over-exposure to the far realm during or post-training.
• a shy, bookish librarian/historian, who tends to his scrolls and tomes and hardly notices the world pass by
• A graduate of the Trickster Academy, with honors in phantom fart noises (ghost sound), illusory banana peels(mystical debris), and self-levitating water buckets (mage hand).

In other words, just because a wizard devotes his life to accumulating magical knowledge doesn't automatically mean he falls into the boring middle category, nor does it necessarily dictate the focus of the knowledge the wizard seeks, or the means with which he does his research.

In heroic, with your stats, there's not much of a drawback to hybriding, but there's really not a benefit either. Still, it's entirely up to you.

[Kurald Galain]

Regarding evocation vs illusion, well, the thing is that around level 7 or so, you'll be using your at-will powers rarely or almost never. This is because combat lasts only 3-4 rounds, and you've got enough encounter/daily powers to cover that.

(edit) oh yeah, regarding cantrips, don't forget Spook...

And ok, if you foresee a lot of necrotic damage in your future, then get resistance to that :)

In heroic, with your stats, there's not much of a drawback to hybriding, but there's really not a benefit either. Still, it's entirely up to you.

Well, the drawback of hybriding is that you don't get e.g. the spellbook feature, and as you said "The best sorcerer feats do not work on wizard powers; the best wizard feats do not work on sorcerer powers." So you effectively have to spend more feats to get the same benefit.

[Laserlight]

Ended up taking Detructive Wizardry, since the only single-target power I have is Magic Missile. Worked well.

As far as Evocation goes, for a 2d6 spell, the expected benefit is:

You roll at least one 1 for 11/36 of the rolls. Substitute the expected reroll value, 3.5, for each of those 1s (or for a single 1 if you roll snakeeyes). The average goes from 7.0 to 7.76.

For 2d8, you have 15:64 rolls which include a 1. The average goes from 9.0 to 9.82.