3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

[nonsi]

.
Status Report – what's new lately:

– Elementalist and Telekineticist classes added (this is the first status update that boasts two new classes ).
– The Polymath class elevated from a discarded notion to a functional class (make that two and a half )
– Radiant Soul class now has the option of dealing Radiation afflictions.
– A lot of classes that didn't have specialized class feats now have them.
– Illithid added as a PC/NPC race
– A new undead monster added: Druj - an import from BECMI D&D.
– Dracolich resolved
– Demilich transformation and mechanics resolved

[faden]

I love the new additions! I've been following along with your changes and building an excel character sheet to keep track and autocalculate things like strain, add fractional BAB/saves, track ability point increases, reference for different types of action as BAB changes, feats, etc.. It's a work in progress, and only works in excel (google drive would take a lot of formatting changes), but I think it might be helpful for a variety of things.

Parts of it are still very incomplete.

Spoiler: to do list:

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I have no good ideas how to build spells into it/fixing page 1B in the page 1 sheet. I don't have access to some of the feats, races, etc you've referenced, so there are holes and missing pre-reqs. adding school specialization for mages, adding domains. picking spells from mage list rather than listing them all. adding editable fields for gained known spells outside of automatic known spells. adding divine gift priest list. adding invocation list. adding elementalist spell stuff.
I have some ideas for a better way to select feats/class features, but still not sure why they come up so small in the pop-up menu. Condensing the list creates huge calculation times, vs a list with all the blank spaces. using a pivot table that you have to refresh to renew feat pre-reqs seems to be the best option. picklist still comes up small
Checking to make sure formulas don't break in certain situations.
Need to fix/remove all the crit data in weapons. Is there something that should replace this field on page 1? crit-substitution damage cap (bab)?
Some of it suffers from learning things as I go and changing format. adding feat/feature descriptions. adding a space for descriptions on character sheet?
is there a better term than class features, to broadly encompass all the class choices like warcraft, rogue special ability, invocations, etc.? class specializations? choices? label it abilities as well?
Working on wild shape/alternate forms (mostly untouched. Netherhost has 3 separate class ability lists).
autoadjusting class vs cross-class skills. figuring class skills for multiclassers. once a class skill, always a class skill? or new level only class skill points? adding rogue skill bumps, intuition, skill trick bumps.
maybe adding a level-tracker for ability score increases, etc. this would make class-based stat bonuses easier to calculate and display.
shrinking language selection area vs moving to page 3? not as intrusive with more streamlined skill list and calculations moved out of print area. Don't know if it's worth condensing to remove skills without ranks (like bonus list on page 3 does).
continuing to track for updates.
setting up protected areas of the sheet.
improving appearance.
added combat adaptation feat pool
splash intro. dice roller/point buy.

Some Questions:

Spoiler:

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-5' step doesn't provoke. Does a 2nd 5' step? does combat focus 5' step provoke?
-what are the limits on skill tricks? I think it costs 1 skill point? rogue mentions you are allowed one per level, but I don't see restrictions for other classes .
-Is there a limit to 2nd wind? Using it for 12+ straight rounds (at the expense of other options) seems overpowered, and goes against the name of the ability (I just re-read that sleeping overnight is 2xHD or 1/2 *MISSING* hp. I guess that changes how powerful I was thinking this one was).
-Can a character take netherhost after 1st level? The description mentions a bond established at a younger age, but would this limit taking it later? It would still make roleplaying sense that the bond occurred, but doesn't have to dominate personality at level 1.
-How does casting from spellbook interact with strain/failure?
-I am confused about the power level of the Elementalist. The power curve seems drastically different than all your other classes. the 3/5/5/5 system seems to give a ton more casting than a mage at the same level, plus improved combat abilities. At 20th level they can cast 18 9th level SLA, 20 8th level SLA, and 3-12 (3 per feat) 7th level (Su) with free SR bypass. Anyone else can't do a quarter of that (and probably no more than half at any other level) before getting into strain saves. I don't think the restricted selection merits this increase in power. Should there be some strain system? Perhaps a separate strain pool for each of the elements? It doesn't seem to fit the flavor, but I don't know other ideas. Perhaps some spells get unlimited/increased casting (to par warlock) and decrease the rest? The defense also seems to far outpace anyone else in your system (~23 natural armor (elder earth elemental gets 15) on top of the +7 BAB dodge?). elemental resistance feels appropriate, but getting it at first level just seems out of place. x4 elemental resistance at 20th level makes sense.

-The prices in magic creation are inconsistent.
- You list a charge at 50% but your examples seem to be at 10%. cost of activations: Usable 6/day costs 30% more than 1/10 min (assuming the 10% figure)? 12/mo costs 60% more than 1/10min? I get this is more flexible, but the spread seems off.
-The cost to recharge is phrased weird. Putting 3 charges costs 3*40=120% the cost of the original item? Do you mean putting all charges back costs 40% of the original item? So a 10 charge wand of magic missile, 1000gp (1SL) + 50 (5%xCL)+10 charges (1000gp)=2050gp, so 1000gp to place the initial charges and 820gp to refill? this seems fair.
- permanent says 4000gp x SpL but your example uses 5000gp.
-Magic vestment is a 3rd level spell. Does this mean +1 armor is 3x the cost of +1 weapons? Would protection from evil/good be a 1st level spell to balance to the list? +1 is 1st level spell, +2-+5 is 3rd level spell?
-Bull's strength etc is +4 to a stat. How would you calculate +2/+4/+6 modifiers?
-How would you calculate belt of giant strenght? emanating 2nd level= 12k+1800 (CL 3)+no spell completion(?)+1200(?)=15000 for +4, puts it on par with 3.5 creation rules. This seems fair. Or could be created as: activating for 3 minutes every 10 minutes= Permanent 2nd level power (8k or 10k) +15%(CL 3)+10% (1 charge)+ 0% (activation frequency) +20% (activating like the example ring (move action or standard action since spell is standard?))=11.6-14.5k. This seems fair.
-I like the variety available in your system, the expendable scroll/mushroom/cauldron thing is awesome flavor. I love the overall creation process described. Pricing could be so different it would make it hard to just pull items from SRD without working a whole new list.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1N...ew?usp=sharing
updates: created the backbone for spells. cleaned up appearance and hidden fields. helps select class/cross-class skills.

I will update the link as I continue.

[nonsi]

.
Hey Faden,
I'm glad that you find this project interesting enough to merit the effort

I love the new additions! I've been following along with your changes and building an excel character sheet to keep track and autocalculate things like strain, add fractional BAB/saves, track ability point increases, reference for different types of action as BAB changes, feats, etc..

This is awesome
As part of my job I'm using Excel calculators of various sorts. In my experience, in document versions that are spread to the public it helps document navigation when the data sources that are used for calculations are hidden from sight (probably embedded in hidden sheets).

It's a work in progress, and only works in excel (google drive would take a lot of formatting changes), but I think it might be helpful for a variety of things.

That's enough in my book. The main point is making yourself a helpful enough tool, not overtax yourself in search of the perfect tool to end all tools.

Parts of it are still very incomplete.

Spoiler

Show

I have no good ideas how to build spells into it/fixing page 1B in the page 1 sheet. I don't have access to some of the feats, races, etc you've referenced, so there are holes and missing pre-reqs. I have some ideas for a better way to select feats/class features, but still not sure why they come up so small in the pop-up menu. Checking to make sure formulas don't break in certain situations. Need to fix/remove all the crit data in weapons. Is there something that should replace this field on page 1? Some of it suffers from learning things as I go and changing format. Working on wild shape/alternate forms (mostly untouched. Netherhost has 3 separate class ability lists). autoadjusting class vs cross-class skills. continuing to track for updates. setting up protected areas of the sheet.

I'll PM you some suggestions.

Some Questions:

Let's see what we have here.
Just a reminder: Everything in the codex reflects my view of things. Feel free to change things that don't sit well with your preferences.

-5' step doesn't provoke. Does a 2nd 5' step? does combat focus 5' step provoke?

5' step doesn't provoke. Period.
Reason I: The rules should be as consistent as possible. Less variations means less bookkeeping.
Reason II: The whole point of granting someone 5'-step options is to circumvent provoking AoOs.
Reason III: If you're unable to circumvent provoking AoOs, there's no point in restricting yourself to 5' movements.

what are the limits on skill tricks? I think it costs 1 skill point? rogue mentions you are allowed one per level, but I don't see restrictions for other classes.

A skill trick costs 2 skill points
The official rules set a limit of 1 skill trick per 2 character levels (rounded up).

-Is there a limit to 2nd wind? Using it for 12+ straight rounds (at the expense of other options) seems overpowered, and goes against the name of the ability (I just re-read that sleeping overnight is 2xHD or 1/2 *MISSING* hp. I guess that changes how powerful I was thinking this one was).

"Second Wind (Expend)"
You need to expend your Combat Focus to invoke Second Wind. Expending your Combat Focus grants a single use of Second Wind.

Btw, notice that it's "1/2 remaining damage", not 1/2 of the character's max HP.

-Can a character take netherhost after 1st level? The description mentions a bond established at a younger age, but would this limit taking it later? It would still make roleplaying sense that the bond occurred, but doesn't have to dominate personality at level 1.

Thematically: The beast is hungry and greedy. It constantly occupies the character's awareness. The beast cares about its own power expression in the physical world, not the character's power. Also, an important factor is that adults are too self-aware and mentally resilient to allow such influence to crawl into their personal space.
Mechanically: because there's a lot of restrictions on how the beast can utilize gear, it's inherently more physically powerful than the other classes. Allowing multiclassing might lead to broken options. When the characters go epic, such exploits would be a lot less problematic.
Regulatory: Since the bond is so powerful that it transcends death and resurrection, a DM would have the power to shove such status down a player's throat. I wouldn't wanna open that door to begin with.

-How does casting from spellbook interact with strain/failure?

Just as it would when casting from memory. The point is having more to choose from, not to grant more spell output capacity.

-I am confused about the power level of the Elementalist. The power curve seems drastically different than all your other classes. the 3/5/5/5 system seems to give a ton more casting than a mage at the same level, plus improved combat abilities. At 20th level they can cast 18 9th level SLA, 20 8th level SLA, and 3-12 (3 per feat) 7th level (Su) with free SR bypass. Anyone else can't do a quarter of that (and probably no more than half at any other level) before getting into strain saves. I don't think the restricted selection merits this increase in power. Should there be some strain system? Perhaps a separate strain pool for each of the elements? It doesn't seem to fit the flavor, but I don't know other ideas. Perhaps some spells get unlimited/increased casting (to par warlock) and decrease the rest? The defense also seems to far outpace anyone else in your system (~23 natural armor (elder earth elemental gets 15) on top of the +7 BAB dodge?). elemental resistance feels appropriate, but getting it at first level just seems out of place. x4 elemental resistance at 20th level makes sense.

Contrary to most other classes, this one has no action-economy tricks. It's almost as restricted action-wise as 3.5e normally allows with zero cheese and zero optimization.
The Elementalist has a lot of output throughout the day, but others may do more on a round-by-round basis (elementals are restricted to 2 attacks per round and can't use gear). It has solid inherent stats, but nothing that most classes can't outclass with little to no effort. Now that I think of it, Supernatural Elementalism seems almost mandatory as a tool when char-building an elementalist, to give it some level of daily functionality of powers that others can't fizzle.

I will adopt your suggestion for separate strain pools – not for balance purposes, but more for the sake of less bookkeeping (tracking power uses separately would be a nightmare).
OTOH, I'll change Supernatural Elementalism from a feat to an inherent class feature, at levels 5/8/11/14.

-The prices in magic creation are inconsistent.
- You list a charge at 50% but your examples seem to be at 10%. cost of activations

I fixed the charge-cost formula and corrected Wand of Fireball.

- permanent says 4000gp x SpL but your example uses 5000gp.

Fixed

+1 is 1st level spell, +2-+5 is 3rd level spell?

Yes. At high levels, there are more potent things than stat augmentation.

-Bull's strength etc is +4 to a stat. How would you calculate +2/+4/+6 modifiers?

According to the spell's level.

Pricing could be so different it would make it hard to just pull items from SRD without working a whole new list.

You don't need a list.
The creation rules are meant to free you from the need to compare to suggested items.

[nonsi]

I am confused about the power level of the Elementalist. The power curve seems drastically different than all your other classes. the 3/5/5/5 system seems to give a ton more casting than a mage at the same level, plus improved combat abilities. At 20th level they can cast 18 9th level SLA, 20 8th level SLA, and 3-12 (3 per feat) 7th level (Su) with free SR bypass. Anyone else can't do a quarter of that (and probably no more than half at any other level) before getting into strain saves. I don't think the restricted selection merits this increase in power. Should there be some strain system? Perhaps a separate strain pool for each of the elements?

Just wanted to let you know that this suggestion was exceptionally helpful.
I was busting my head against the wall how to make the more inferior elements catch up, and the only thing I could come up with was an awkward variation of Practiced Spellcaster feat.
Your suggestion gave me a fantastic tool for explaining gradual catch-up of elemental progression at high levels

[faden]

I just ran an opening campaign with 3.5EO!!

We had level 1 humans playing rogue, fighter (plans to alternate druid), priestess of death, time bender, and soulknife, with an anubid water elementalist and gargoyle netherhost (who effectively started at level 2...I guess I could have started him at class level 0, but the campaign setting already had some restrictions on him).

In the campaign, magic doesn't exist (or at least hasn't existed for thousands of years). "spellcasters" still practice and pass down the closely guarded rituals and somatic components, but these are more based on tricking the commonfolk, using smoke and mirrors to create illusions. They were not told about this until after character creation. During the opening scene, after 80 years of an uneasy ceasefire, trade relations have been opened with the nation of unified savage tribes (orcs, anubids, bugbears, etc), and the town is gathered to see the spectacle. Powers that be do not like this, and set up an ambush to kill off the caravan and restart the war. A global cataclysm creates a new moon, unlocking magic again, and interrupts the ambush with massive earthquakes. The players had to roll spellcraft DC 20 (a swift action with a cumulative +2 bonus for each result 10+) to unlock their supernatural/extraordinary abilities (or for the gargoyle to animate after his wee nap).

As far as balance goes, the characters seemed to work out pretty well. The rooftop and spread-out fight allowed for lots of interplay between combat and non-combat actions. combat diplomacy even saw some action. The timebender got some house-rule fluff time freezes when he fell off a roof, and at first level, class abilities (that he was too hesitant to use) did not seem on par with others, but nothing I would change.

Limiting the magic in the first encounter also helped focus on one rule section at a time. only the fighter had played 3.5 before, 4 had only played 5th edition, and 2 with no D&D experience. They did a good job of picking up on rules as we went.

Character creation was a beast and I walked each player through it, but I think this was more a function of inexperience than any problems with the system. Hopefully leveling up will not need that.

Questions:
-the priestess got trapped alone with a tough skeleton. No access to cure light wounds to destroy them? I guess Divine Gift would be the best way to handle this problem?
-Elementalist still seems a lot more powerful than other classes. I houseruled natural armor bonus is 1 per 2 levels. I think I will cap elemental form =HD+x, not =2*HD. It says follows all the same restrictions as shapechange, does that include access to large/huge at 7th/18th level? Spell selection is a little tricky to figure out. Gaining 2 spells per element level, would need 4+ spells for each element level, and that was a little difficult finding enough to add to the choice list, but I didn't look much into the extra sources like complete arcane or phb2. can water access acid? healing would not probably fit, but I allowed cure light wounds on the spell list to give an Avatar feel. can air access lightning/sonic/light/prismatic/fly/invisibility spells? can fire access lightning? what about combo casting? 9th level storm of vengeance as an air spell then next round augmenting it with casting as a water spell?
-I houseruled a new paragraph for the mind blade.

Mind Blade (Ex):
...
Creating a soulknife ability is a swift action that requires an autohypnosis check with DC = enhancement + number of summoning attempts today. Maintaining a weapon for 10 minutes or armor for 1 hour requires a repeat attempt and adds to the cumulative DC. Ammunition (See Versatile Mind Blade) does not require a check, but throwing weapons (See below) do.

Spoiler: caveat

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(the only problem I see with this is that it will either require unnecessary bookkeeping that never comes into play or only hampers throwing mind blades. This doesn't seem as big an impact as it would be difficult for a fighter to carry infinite throwing axes, so balances it against mundane equipment, and perhaps a feat could offset this. This also creates functionality for the autohypnosis skill. It creates a difficulty system that parallels Netherhost shifting.)

Feat: Returning Mind (Ex):
Req: Blade Enhancement (level 4)
Make a concentration check as an immediate action with DC 15+highest BAB of your target+previous concentration checks this round. You may recall the mental energy of a thrown weapon, bringing it back to your hand after a strike without having to make a subsequent autohypnosis check or adding to the cumulative DC. You may take 10 on this check.


which leads me to my thought for Warlocks:
Eldritch Blast (Su):
...
casting eldritch blast adds one to your strain score. Using Overload increases this by one. Using iterative attacks increases strain by one per attack. This particular contribution to strain score decreases by 1 per minute, and speeds up by 1 round for each level until level 10, where strain score decreases by 1 per round.

Spoiler: justification

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this would create some limits to the unlimited powers. While this has never been in systems that I've read, I think your ability to break stupid habits is one thing that makes this work shine. Other than siege situations with massive amounts of foes and protective barriers, I can't see it as too big a barrier, and creates the dynamic of the blaster "overheating" and having to cool down.

[nonsi]

I just ran an opening campaign with 3.5EO!!

We had level 1 humans playing
- Rogue
- fighter (plans to alternate druid)
- priestess of death
- time bender
- and soulknife

Anubid water elementalist

gargoyle netherhost (who effectively started at level 2...I guess I could have started him at class level 0, but the campaign setting already had some restrictions on him).

In the campaign, magic doesn't exist (or at least hasn't existed for thousands of years). "spellcasters" still practice and pass down the closely guarded rituals and somatic components, but these are more based on tricking the commonfolk, using smoke and mirrors to create illusions.
They were not told about this until after character creation.

During the opening scene, after 80 years of an uneasy ceasefire, trade relations have been opened with the nation of unified savage tribes (orcs, anubids, bugbears, etc), and the town is gathered to see the spectacle.
Powers that be do not like this, and set up an ambush to kill off the caravan and restart the war.
A global cataclysm creates a new moon, unlocking magic again, and interrupts the ambush with massive earthquakes. The players had to roll spellcraft DC 20 (a swift action with a cumulative +2 bonus for each result 10+) to unlock their supernatural/extraordinary abilities (or for the gargoyle to animate after his wee nap).

(pardon the editing)
1. I like the settings.
2. 7 characters (players) seems like quite a large group. I hope your players are focused and dedicated.
One question: once the new moon was created, does that open the door to fullcasters? If so, how would mages fair, given the scarcity of preexisting magical resources? (none from lately active mages).

The timebender got some house-rule fluff time freezes when he fell off a roof, and at first level, class abilities (that he was too hesitant to use) did not seem on par with others, but nothing I would change.

I like the idea of Feather Fall as a temporal power.
Did it come at the expense of something else, or in addition?

Character creation was a beast and I walked each player through it, but I think this was more a function of inexperience than any problems with the system. Hopefully leveling up will not need that.

For me, the main reason why character creation could be a beast, is the hard choice between the various races and classes, so the real dilemma is "what do I wanna play for the next 2 years" (I'm one of those that get attached to their characters).

 

Questions:

-the priestess got trapped alone with a tough skeleton. No access to cure light wounds to destroy them? I guess Divine Gift would be the best way to handle this problem?

Divine Gift is indeed a solid solution.
By 2nd level she'd also have 5 ranks in Knowledge (religion) and add +2 synergy to Rebuke Undead.
You could also offset the lack of arsenal of cure spells by granting Undead Empathy to neg. energy priests. I'm considering incorporating that into the rules.

-Elementalist still seems a lot more powerful than other classes. I houseruled natural armor bonus is 1 per 2 levels.

I'm not sure that's a good idea in the long run.
Elementalists don't carry around armor and cannot enjoy armor enhancements.

I think I will cap elemental form =HD+x, not =2*HD. It says follows all the same restrictions as shapechange, does that include access to large/huge at 7th/18th level?

Maybe 1.5 * Elementalist level. Any fixed addition might be too much in the early levels and too little later on.

Spell selection is a little tricky to figure out. Gaining 2 spells per element level, would need 4+ spells for each element level, and that was a little difficult finding enough to add to the choice list, but I didn't look much into the extra sources like complete arcane or phb2.

I suspect you got my intention wrong.
Not 2 spells per element level, but 2 spells per-element (period) in a given level progression. 2 spells for each element you have access to upon level progression.

can water access acid? healing would not probably fit, but I allowed cure light wounds on the spell list to give an Avatar feel.

Acid is traditionally associated with earth in D&D, so I'd tell the player to consider Earth for secondary element if s/he so wishes.
Healing is definitely inappropriate. I don't remember healing ever being associated with elemental powers. Also, with everything elementalists have going for them, I don't want them to feel comfortable to fly solo. You might consider a feat chain for self-healing via elemental powers, but such ability should be minor (remember that elementals are resistant to quite a lot).

can air access lightning/sonic/light/prismatic/fly/invisibility spells? can fire access lightning? what about combo casting? 9th level storm of vengeance as an air spell then next round augmenting it with casting as a water spell?

Lightning – absolutely.
Sonic – on one hand, sound is vibrating air. On the other, it's not very theme-appropriate. I'll remain undecided here.
Light – leave that one to Fire.
Prismatic – off limits altogether if it's up to me.
Fly – absolutely.
Invisibility – never.
Storm of Vengeance – you could grant it as a bonus power at level 20, when all elements grant 9th SL access. I'd even say that it'd be a good call to grant the Blighter's Natural Disaster ability, by paying 9th SL strain toll X 4.

As a rule of thumb, the following schools should be out of reach of elementalists altogether: Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy, Universal.
Elementalists are straight forward to a fault. Their entire makeup is just the opposite of subtle.
 

Soulknife
*snip*
. . .
Warlock
*snip*

Soulknives are very narrow in functionality. It feels to me that it would be unfair to force them to invest the one resource they have to play with (feats) just to maintain that basic functionality.
Giving a skill more glory is no justification for punishing a class.

Warlocks have no more than 13 versatility invocations and a handful of SLAs (according to their heritage) throughout 20 levels. A bit more if they put all their resources on versatility at the expense of power. That's very little, compared to fullcasters.
It's hard for me to imagine a balancing point where it would be restrictive enough to warrant tracking resources and not-too-restrictive to make the class still worthwhile – depending on the selected tolerance pool. If you go for the regular tolerance pool of fullcasters, then a warlock would be restricted only in theory. In practice you'd almost never see that happen (except in the very early levels), but you'd always feel the burden of bookkeeping.
That being said, I do understand the "overheating" angle for the warlock and I don't really have a thematic counter-argument for that, but for heaven's sake, leave the Soulknife alone.
If you do decide to go for the "overheating" angle, I'd suggest using a different pool, not spellcasting tolerance (where the costs change).

[faden]

7 characters (players) seems like quite a large group.

it's more a function of a lot of fluctuatng schedules, and no good ways to fix it. This will let us play, even if a couple people are away.

does that open the door to fullcasters? If so, how would mages fair, given the scarcity of preexisting magical resources?

There are leftover magical items from a few thousand years ago, and may see their enchantments come back. There are many that studied the rituals of the past (most of them just didn't know the significance and thought it was part of the stage magic), so can be NPCs that are already higher level casters, they just don't have access yet.

Did it come at the expense of something else

it was a onetime shtick and he understood that it was not an ability he could use at the moment: he got a critical fumble climbing onto a roof, so that gave the idea to have him get a concussion, and randomly appear on another roof. When he then fortuitously got bull-rushed off the roof , I realized I could have him experience deja vu and fast-forward memories of the time skip: the initial concussion caused time to freeze indefinitely, wandered around the battlefield, unable to hurt or do anything, until he tripped climbing onto the roof where he randomly appeared, the fight on the 2nd roof, then pausing mid-looney tunes fall, then hit the ground again :)

I'm not sure that's a good idea in the long run.
Elementalists don't carry around armor and cannot enjoy armor enhancements.
Maybe 1.5 * Elementalist level. Any fixed addition might be too much in the early levels and too little later on.

ah, I think you need to add the arcane spell failure to the elementalist post. You said they are proficient with light armor?

2 spells for each element you have access to upon level progression.

ah ok, that makes more sense.


I like your description of the elements. Yea, I agree with what you said about healing. In Avatar: the last airbender, the water mages could heal, but that fits better when there are no other healers.

Yea, what you said about warlocks and soulknives makes sense. Maybe overheating would just be limited to a siege situation only.

[nonsi]

ah, I think you need to add the arcane spell failure to the elementalist post. You said they are proficient with light armor?

Right you are. Fixed and fixed.

Maybe overheating would just be limited to a siege situation only.

Now you're thinking of it?!
You stuck this notion in my head and now I'm not gonna rest until I figure it out

[InkisRatticus]

Just a quick question ... what does (P.E.A.C.H) stand for? I googled it and none of the acronyms I have found make sense. Or am I just blind?

[Jormengand]

Just a quick question ... what does (P.E.A.C.H) stand for? I googled it and none of the acronyms I have found make sense. Or am I just blind?

Please Evaluate and Critique Honestly.

[InkisRatticus]

Please Evaluate and Critique Honestly.

Thank you kind sir.

[Jormengand]

Thank you kind sir.

Not everyone on the internet is a sir. Nor, before you suggest it, are all people who are not sirs madams.

[InkisRatticus]

Not everyone on the internet is a sir. Nor, before you suggest it, are all people who are not sirs madams.

My sincerest apologies Madam, or Time-traveling Multidimensional Entity.

[Ashtagon]

My sincerest apologies Madam, or Time-traveling Multidimensional Entity.

You're not as funny as you think you are. You're normalising prejudice against gender variant people. And some people hide behind that normalisation to do terrible things.

[InkisRatticus]

You're not as funny as you think you are. You're normalising prejudice against gender variant people. And some people hide behind that normalisation to do terrible things.

My apologies, I am not going after anyone, I was just trying to thank Jormengand for the help.

[faden]

Some more questions and contributions I've accumulated:

-Size increases. Never fully understood size increases. spells like enlarge person say +2 STR comes from the size bonus, but the only RAW that addresses any other size changes are monster advancement rules, which gives +8 for each size, including med->large. so when a netherhost/dragon evolutionist increases in size, is this always a +2, and is this otherwise included in their stats?

-Forgery/decipher check DCs are discussed, how does this mechanic work? are you rolling language ranks (1-3) + literacy (1-3) + decipher/forge (0-1) + int mod vs DC x?

-A failed strain save deals damage but does not increase your strain? I think this is what you say and this feels appropriate. What happens on a failed concentration check for casting defensively? does that mean attackers get their attack of opportunity after all? So, then a second concentration check to either still cast the spell or avoid fizzle damage? Automatic spell failure and fizzle?

-Is the elementalist shapechange limited to the same size increases as the druid?

-Was there any consideration of using spellcraft instead of fortitude saves? It would give a base +1/level rather than +1 per 2-3 levels from fortitude base saves. Again, this would probably make strain too easy to function while burned out (lvl 1=skill focus 2 + int 18 + 4 ranks=easy to get 10 spellcraft modifier). At 1st level, with only a single point over strain, a very tough mage (con 14+great fortitude feat) would have a +4 vs DC 22. Maximized half orc with con of 20 and great fortitude would have a +7 vs DC up to 27 for casting the very first spell in strain. I can't think of a way to make it easier at first level without throwing off the balance later on. I thought of the first 3 feats below as generalized options available to all, but felt more appropriate as feats. I like the flavor of a save better than a skill check, anyway. I guess what I'm trying to say is that strain, as is, feels better than the next best option.


----------Ideas----------

Feats:
I couldn't think of a way to create these feats that wouldn't unbalance spellcasting and the strain system, but I'm including the ideas in case the flavor inspires you. These could be free abilities for all or feats.


Slow Crescendo
Requirements: concentration 5, spellcraft 5, autohypnosis 3, perform (any) 4.
Benefits:You harness your inner rhythm to increase the casting time of spells to decrease the strain cost. Roll perform DC 15+2*SL+desired number of rounds. If you do not succeed, the spell still takes longer and can cast successfully, but you do not reduce the strain cost. For each full round increase (therefore not including the first round), can decrease the strain cost by 1. This can decrease the cost by no more than half (rounded down). E.G., a level 2 spell with a strain cost of 7 dropped to a cost of no lower than 4, by increase by 3 rounds (so going from a standard action to 4 rounds). Taking damage rules apply normally.

Wild Magic
Requirements: knowledge planes 6.
Benefits:You cast spells with reckless abandon by drawing magical energies from the surrounding ethos and leylines rather than your own innate abilities. Roll a spellcraft vs DC 18+2*SL+2*desired strain cost saving (This puts the DC on par with casting defensively), as the more energy you try and draw, the more uncontrollable it can become. If the skillcheck fails, roll on wild magic minor surge Table and/or major surge if failing by 5 or more. Strain accumulates based on the results of the wild magic roll.
Special:Taking damage rules apply normally (concentration check or lose spell) but failure also causes the immediate roll on the major surge table. Note this may result in the spell succeeeding.
Special: If combining this with slow crescendo, you must re-roll this check each round.
Alternative Maths: optional: The strain cost saving is instead applied to the pre-existing strain total, and could prevent the fortitude save. For example, with a strain tolerance of 20, At 22, you could try and reduce it to 20. For a spell costing 7, this would still end up with a strain of 27 either way, but could prevent the fortitude save.
Alternative Maths: optional: The strain cost saving also decreases the cost of any strain save.
Alternative Maths: optional: The strain cost saving is instead applied to the strain save. In this case the spellcraft DC is 15+SL+2*strain cost saving.

Brain Burn
Requirements: 2nd level spells and either endurance or cannibalized casting
Benefits: You may add 1/2 your spellcraft ranks to saves against spell strain. If you do, take 2 damage to INT, WIS, and CHA. strain still accumulates normally. This damage is taken whether or not you succeed on the enhanced roll, as does hit point damage from a fizzle.


Class specific Ideas
Mage
Is there anything that makes casting a spell from the chosen school easier? Casting these with a cost of 1 less strain (minimum 2), I think this would make it too powerful, but is there some way to do this without upsetting the strain cost balance? Maybe making a spellcraft check? But this would make too many rolls to get the same result.

Priest
Same question, decreased strain for domain spells?

monk
quivering palm DC increases by 1 for each day before invoking the effect.

netherhost
Occupied Residence: (largely nullified by your previous balance and multiclassing explanation, but i'll leave the idea to inspire/aggravate you anyway. Severe penalties always strike me as better than absolute restrictions)
...The beast's presence requires ongoing attention. This makes multiclassing absolutely impossible incredibly difficult: every other class level taken after becoming a netherhost adds 2 to the DC of all saves to become "better." the host may take no more than one level from another class in a row. So a Warrior2/Netherhost6 who gains another level of warrior adds 2 6 to all such will saves. Reaching netherhost 20 eliminates this penalty.
Finally, each such level results in a cumulative (1*n) per week chance of the beast taking control in inopportune moments. At a timing of the DM's discretion, must make a will save of (10+beast cha+daily links+multiclassing penalty+consecutive successful will saves against Occupied Resistance) or transform to beast form out of control. Each round the beast remains in control, the new will save decreases by one to regain control.

Protective Transformation: may react after the host fails a save but before the spell effect occurs, allowing the beast mind to try to save as well.

Augmentation overflow: If this gives +2 then +4, then it gives 4/2/2 then 8/4/4 to hybrid form. This makes the hybrid form stronger than the beast form? is this intentional?

Time Bender
restore timeflow
This can be used to counter time stop. This still consumes an aevum. This is an immediate action, and can be done even if an action is not readied to counter the time stop spell. Alternatively, the time bender may choose to enter the time stop. The time bender always acts first (if more than one, roll 1d20+time bender level), and all non time benders in the time-stop remains flat-footed the full duration.

feat:
Un-Anchored in Time (Su)
Requirements: time bender 12, anchored in time.
Benefits: This ability would typically not come into play unless Anchored in Time failed to save the life. If gaining some class feature at your next level up would prevent a death, you use it at this moment, but instead can't gain the specific feature until one additional level later. This character development choice cannot be avoided, even if there is subsequent death and resurrection. For example, if missing a jump by 1 resulted in death, you could use that gained benefit now, but then you must take that particular character choice. After gaining one level, all other class features are gained normally, but the part that saves your life is not. After gaining a second level, Time Catches Up With You and you recover the missing specifics. Failing to make the deigned choice paradoxically negates your existence from the time of reversed death in question, and prevents resurrection by anything short of a 9th level spell.
Special:You can also use this for any character choices, such as gaining a different class level, but it must be a distinct change that prevents your death Whatever the specific, be it BAB-related dodge bonus increase, ability score increase, reflex save, steely resolve warcraft, feat, gaining level 1 mage spell featherfall, etc., that is the feature that is absent. If taking level 1 of mage, gaining the spell and going from a strain tolerance of 0 to 19 that allows the spellcasting, then you may gain all spells known but one (needed to get featherfall) and may only give a strain tolerance of 12 (as 7 points were used to save the life). This restriction should be narrowly related to the specifics that prevent the death.

[nonsi]

-Size increases. Never fully understood size increases. spells like enlarge person say +2 STR comes from the size bonus, but the only RAW that addresses any other size changes are monster advancement rules, which gives +8 for each size, including med->large. so when a netherhost/dragon evolutionist increases in size, is this always a +2, and is this otherwise included in their stats?

As far as I know and remember, Enlarge Person spell details what happens when one increases in size.
Apply the opposite for size decrease.

-Forgery/decipher check DCs are discussed, how does this mechanic work? are you rolling language ranks (1-3) + literacy (1-3) + decipher/forge (0-1) + int mod vs DC x?

I'll have to get back to you on that one.

-A failed strain save deals damage but does not increase your strain? I think this is what you say and this feels appropriate. What happens on a failed concentration check for casting defensively? does that mean attackers get their attack of opportunity after all? So, then a second concentration check to either still cast the spell or avoid fizzle damage? Automatic spell failure and fizzle?

Where did you see "does not increase your strain"?
That was never the intent. When you cast a spell, strain toll precedes anything else.

-Is the elementalist shapechange limited to the same size increases as the druid?

The target elemental's HDs determine its size.

-Was there any consideration of using spellcraft instead of fortitude saves? It would give a base +1/level rather than +1 per 2-3 levels from fortitude base saves. Again, this would probably make strain too easy to function while burned out (lvl 1=skill focus 2 + int 18 + 4 ranks=easy to get 10 spellcraft modifier). At 1st level, with only a single point over strain, a very tough mage (con 14+great fortitude feat) would have a +4 vs DC 22. Maximized half orc with con of 20 and great fortitude would have a +7 vs DC up to 27 for casting the very first spell in strain. I can't think of a way to make it easier at first level without throwing off the balance later on. I thought of the first 3 feats below as generalized options available to all, but felt more appropriate as feats. I like the flavor of a save better than a skill check, anyway. I guess what I'm trying to say is that strain, as is, feels better than the next best option.

Pardon me, but I have no idea what this refers to. This entire passage seems to be missing a header topic.

----------Ideas----------

Feats:
I couldn't think of a way to create these feats that wouldn't unbalance spellcasting and the strain system, but I'm including the ideas in case the flavor inspires you. These could be free abilities for all or feats.

Nice thought, but I have no more posting space left to put additional feats.

Slow Crescendo
Requirements: concentration 5, spellcraft 5, autohypnosis 3, perform (any) 4.
Benefits:You harness your inner rhythm to increase the casting time of spells to decrease the strain cost. Roll perform DC 15+SL+desired number of rounds. If you do not succeed, the spell still takes longer and can cast successfully, but you do not reduce the strain cost. For each full round increase (therefore not including the first round), can decrease the strain cost by 1. This can decrease the cost by no more than half (rounded down). E.G., a level 2 spell with a strain cost of 7 dropped to a cost of no lower than 4, by increase by 3 rounds (so going from a standard action to 4 rounds). Taking damage rules apply normally.

Nice idea, but remember that about 1/2 the spells a fullcaster casts regularly are utility spells, so this is a major boost to one's resources.
Way too much for a single feat.

What did you mean by "Taking damage rules apply normally"?
Does this refer to spell failure due to taking damage?

Wild Magic
*snip*

Whenever I see a Wild Magic table with a list of effects, I ask myself "why those effects and not others".
This is why I said what I said about Wild Magic on post #234.

Brain Burn
Requirements: 2nd level spells and either endurance or cannibalized casting
Benefits: You may add 1/2 your spellcraft ranks to saves against spell strain. If you do, take 2 damage to INT, WIS, and CHA. strain still accumulates normally. This damage is taken whether or not you succeed on the enhanced roll, as does hit point damage from a fizzle.

What are "saves against spell strain"?

Class specific Ideas
Mage
Is there anything that makes casting a spell from the chosen school easier? Casting these with a cost of 1 less strain (minimum 2), I think this would make it too powerful, but is there some way to do this without upsetting the strain cost balance?


Priest
Same question, decreased strain for domain spells?

I don't see how.

monk
quivering palm DC increases by 1 for each day before invoking the effect.

Quote: "Quivering Palm is an instantaneous effect - it cannot be postponed for a later time"

netherhost
Occupied Residence: . . . *snip*

For the sake of keeping things simple, I'll skip this suggestion.

Protective Transformation: may react after the host fails a save but before the spell effect occurs, allowing the beast mind to try to save as well.

I think it already says that.

Time Bender
restore timeflow
This can be used to counter time stop. This still consumes an aevum. This is an immediate action, and can be done even if an action is not readied to counter the time stop spell. Alternatively, the time bender may choose to enter the time stop. The time bender always acts first (if more than one, roll 1d20+time bender level), and all non time benders in the time-stop remains flat-footed the full duration.

I think not. Time Stop (the tweaked version) has a larger AoE than Dispel Magic.
Also, I see no reason to make it operate faster than standard action.

feat:
Un-Anchored in Time (Su)
*snip*

1. This seems like a strategy that would screw you more often than not.
2. The feat seems a bit tedious to operate.
3. Mote of Time offers a much more potent benefit than that, and it's a free action.

[faden]

sorry double post

[faden]

As far as I know and remember, Enlarge Person spell details what happens when one increases in size. Apply the opposite for size decrease.

Good, that makes it straightforward.

The target elemental's HDs determine its size.

So elementalist can go Huge at 8th level (16HD), while a druid can at 18th level.

(pardon my order reorganization) :

What are "saves against spell strain"?

If a fatigued Spellcaster wishes to cast another spell, he must first make a Fort save

I couldn't find a good term for this kind of fort save: casting while fatigued because strain exceeds strain tolerance. How is the term Strain Save?

Where did you see "does not increase your strain"?

If the save is failed, the spell fizzles with no effect and the Spellcaster takes damage equal to the spell's strain-toll.

this specifically states consequences when fizzling, and so should include all consequences when fizzling.

DC = (20 + the spell's level + the amount of Strain he has over his Tolerance prior to casting the spell).

this states the fortitude save occurs before strain tolerance, and therefore strain toll does not precede everything. I read this as meaning that the spell fails before ever accessing the magic that creates the strain in the first place.

Alternatively, a spellcaster taking damage during spellcasting may decide to forgo the effort of going through with casting and snuff it pre-casting, to avoid taking the strain toll.

this states that if damage occurs mid-casting, then you may avoid the strain toll that is yet to occur, showing the order is something like:

1: if strain>tolerance, beat fort save or fizzle
2: if casting defensively, beat concentration or UNKNOWN (fizzle? AoO? is it a failure of the spellcasting per 3.5 RAW and therefore no AoO? or a failure of the defensive maneuvers?)
3: if combat damage, decide abort or continue
4: if abort, beat concentration and avoid strain toll or take strain toll (I read this implied a separate entity than fizzle, because fizzle did not mention strain toll).
5: if continue, beat concentration or fizzle.
6: incur strain cost
7: spell succeeds
Fizzle=no effect and the Spellcaster takes damage equal to the spell's strain-toll

The Mechanics of Spellcasting spoiler states that strain cost could only occur at step 4 or later. Obviously this order is not super critical, but if strain toll occurs with fizzles at fortitude failure, casting defensively failure, damage save failure, and abort failure, this needs clarification as I missed it thrice.

If the save is failed, the spell fizzles with no effect and the Spellcaster takes damage equal to the spell's strain-toll. This would be a good place to add When you cast a spell, strain toll precedes anything else

So if you are a single point over strain tolerance, and fizzle (because you have to roll 18+), even though you've been penalized with damage, now you have to roll 25 on a d20? I really don't like the double penalization of raw damage plus making it more difficult for further spellcasting. Maybe 1 strain, even for a 0 cost spell, or spell level.

Pardon me, but I have no idea what this refers to. This entire passage seems to be missing a header topic.

topic: When strain exceeds strain tolerance, the caster must roll a fortitude save. The lowest possible DC for this roll is 22 for a 1st level spell.
postulate: At first level, non-optimized mages could average around +2 (CON 15 for 2nd highest stat, 70% of 4d6b3 will have a 14+ for 2nd best roll), ranging to the optimized half-orc priest or druid with great fortitude could max at +9 at first level (CON 20, 7-10% of 4d6b3 have at least one 18).
postulate: At 1st level, this is basically not worth attempting (which I guess is okay). Double penalty of fizzle damage and extra strain is too much risk especially if you have to roll a 20 to beat a DC of 22. This makes trying a second time impossible, even with a fortitude bonus of 8.
hypothesis: changes to make casting over strain tolerance possible at low level will create a proportional change in difficulty at higher levels that is undesired.
hypothesis: fortitude save increases slower than level, while spellcraft increases linearly. changing to spellcraft would change the level 1 non-optimized average fortitude bonus of 2, to the average non-optimized spellcraft average bonus of 7. Now, the risk of failure and dangerous penalties makes it worth considering at lower level, and allow the most practiced spellcasters to weigh the risk of further spellcasting.
method 1: replace strain save with spellcraft check. Gives too much benefit at higher levels
method 2: lower fortitude save: less of a benefit at higher levels, but doesn't do much to help the mechanic
method 3: allow brain burn: adds modifier that scales with half level to fortitude that scales with ~1/2 level. trades risk for significant penalty. regardless of level, makes it a tough decision to augment a skill, but opens up options.
discussion: as I tried saying, methods 1 and 2 really don't seem to work, and thematically I like fortitude saves better than skill checks anyway. Brain burn thematically allows the mental training and spellwork to alter a difficult roll, but have penalties that match.

This could be incorporated into the base rules of spellcasting, only be allowed through the feat, or the following classes could get Brain Burn as a bonus feat (or could take with appropriate pre-reqs): Witch 1 (already built around ability score damage, but doesn't have spellcraft as a class skill), Druid 2, Mage 3, Bard 4 (might skip this one), Priest 5 (mirrors divine resilience nicely, or could replace it for negative energy priests). Brain Burn would be a move equivalent action.

Nice idea, but remember that about 1/2 the spells a fullcaster casts regularly are utility spells, so this is a major boost to one's resources. Way too much for a single feat.

Yea, I saw that dilemma too. Limiting these 3 feat benefits to use only for strain saves would mean that any use of the feat always contains a risk, and so utility spells would not see an undue boost to resources.

What did you mean by "Taking damage rules apply normally"?
Does this refer to spell failure due to taking damage?

yes

Quote: "Quivering Palm is an instantaneous effect - it cannot be postponed for a later time"

huh. Guess I was looking at the old version, where it can build up energy over 7 days.

For the sake of keeping things simple, I'll skip this suggestion.

What about Augmentation overflow? the numbers seem to give a bigger total bonus to the hybrid form.

[nonsi]

So elementalist can go Huge at 8th level (16HD), while a druid can at 18th level.

1. We've already agreed that it's gonna be 1.5 x Elementalist level (change already applied), so that makes it level 11.
2. Druids have a better selection of spells.
3. Druids have companions.
4. Wild Shape is far more versatile than Elemental Form (not just combat, but social and espionage situations).

I couldn't find a good term for this kind of fort save: casting while fatigued because strain exceeds strain tolerance. How is the term Strain Save?

To set the record straight, the save is not vs. strain buildup, but vs. spell failure. You can't circumvent strain buildup.

Originally Posted by nonsi
If the save is failed, the spell fizzles with no effect and the Spellcaster takes damage equal to the spell's strain-toll.

this specifically states consequences when fizzling, and so should include all consequences when fizzling.

Even in core, when spellcasting fails, your spell is lost nonetheless.
Whatever's not mentioned in this project should continue to function according to the official rules.

Originally Posted by nonsi
DC = (20 + the spell's level + the amount of Strain he has over his Tolerance prior to casting the spell).

this states the fortitude save occurs before strain tolerance, and therefore strain toll does not precede everything. I read this as meaning that the spell fails before ever accessing the magic that creates the strain in the first place.

You regard the Tolerance value as it is before attempting to overcast, but your strain continues to accumulate nonetheless.

Originally Posted by nonsi
Alternatively, a spellcaster taking damage during spellcasting may decide to forgo the effort of going through with casting and snuff it pre-casting, to avoid taking the strain toll.

this states that if damage occurs mid-casting, then you may avoid the strain toll that is yet to occur, showing the order is something like:

1: if strain>tolerance, beat fort save or fizzle
2: if casting defensively, beat concentration or UNKNOWN (fizzle? AoO? is it a failure of the spellcasting per 3.5 RAW and therefore no AoO? or a failure of the defensive maneuvers?)
3: if combat damage, decide abort or continue
4: if abort, beat concentration and avoid strain toll or take strain toll (I read this implied a separate entity than fizzle, because fizzle did not mention strain toll).
5: if continue, beat concentration or fizzle.
6: incur strain cost
7: spell succeeds
Fizzle=no effect and the Spellcaster takes damage equal to the spell's strain-toll

The Mechanics of Spellcasting spoiler states that strain cost could only occur at step 4 or later. Obviously this order is not super critical, but if strain toll occurs with fizzles at fortitude failure, casting defensively failure, damage save failure, and abort failure, this needs clarification as I missed it thrice.

I see what you mean.
This complicates things a lot. I'll remove this option altogether.

Originally Posted by nonsi
If the save is failed, the spell fizzles with no effect and the Spellcaster takes damage equal to the spell's strain-toll. [I]This would be a good place to add[I] When you cast a spell, strain toll precedes anything else

So if you are a single point over strain tolerance, and fizzle (because you have to roll 18+), even though you've been penalized with damage, now you have to roll 25 on a d20? I really don't like the double penalization of raw damage plus making it more difficult for further spellcasting. Maybe 1 strain, even for a 0 cost spell, or spell level.

With my solution above, I think this issue is moot.

Originally Posted by nonsi
Pardon me, but I have no idea what this refers to. This entire passage seems to be missing a header topic.

topic: When strain exceeds strain tolerance, the caster must roll a fortitude save. The lowest possible DC for this roll is 22 for a 1st level spell.
postulate: At first level, non-optimized mages could average around +2 (CON 15 for 2nd highest stat, 70% of 4d6b3 will have a 14+ for 2nd best roll), ranging to the optimized half-orc priest or druid with great fortitude could max at +9 at first level (CON 20, 7-10% of 4d6b3 have at least one 18).
*snip*

I want to make one thing clear. My intent was to make overcasting a Hail Mary – especially at low levels.
As levels accumulate:
1. You have a bigger pool.
2. The costs decrease.
3. You gain more practice with overcasting.

Now, given that:
1. Druid spells are generally less potent than arcane spells.
2. Con-optimization is bound to come at the expense of other ability scores.
3. Wild Shape incentivizes focusing on mental stats.
This makes the potential of druids beating mages at overcasting a negligible issue as far as I'm concerned.

Furthermore, I'm out of posting space on post #4, so I have no more room to elaborate anything.

In addition, notice the alternative rules for Strain & Tolerance. The Spell Points option.
The reason it's in the overhaul is to allow one not to get his hands dirty with overcasting, and with a slight tweak of the numbers, you can control the resources of spellcasters with surgical precision.
As much as I love the thematic value of Strain & Tolerance (Raistlin Majere struggling to cast a spell), I think that the Spell Points option I've come up with is more game-practical and is a better tool at reducing the gap between casters and noncasters.

Originally Posted by nonsi
For the sake of keeping things simple, I'll skip this suggestion.

What about Augmentation overflow? the numbers seem to give a bigger total bonus to the hybrid form.

1. The hybrid form does not gain the increased size of the beast form.
2. The hybrid form does not benefit from Augmented Physics. Augmentation overflow is a residual effect of Augmented Physics.

I'm getting this nagging feeling that I missed something.




Offtopic, I added 2 Epic feats to the Elementalist, just to make it clear that Elemental Monolith form is not available w/o putting some resources into it.

[faden]

Okay, the strain picture is making a lot more sense now. I got the hail mary aspects of it, but I see how the rest of the pieces fit together. I appreciate the clarification. I did like the option to go for a lower concentration DC to avoid the strain, but I see how that would make things more straightforward.

I like the elementalist changes, then.

Netherhost:

Augmentation Overflow (Ex)
The body of a 9th level netherhost becomes stronger due to the beast's influence, yet a little less normal, gaining some of the might of the beast itself. He gains a permanent +2 increase to the ability chosen for Augmented Physics. In addition, the hybrid form gains the benefits of Nether Strikes.
At 17th level, the host gains another +2 increase to the ability chosen for Augmented Physics. In addition the hybrid form gains the benefits of the beast's entire array of physical attacks and the host form gains the benefits of Nether Strikes, despite it not being visually obvious.
The hybrid form, gains twice the above bonuses to the selected physical abilities and gains the above bonuses to the other two physical abilities.

Augmented Physics (Ex)
...
The bonus for the hybrid form is half that of the beast itself.

I forgot about the size increase, that makes the beast bonus better and may solve my question. But now, I'm confused again. The last line of augmentation overflow says "the hybrid gets twice the (augmentation overflow bonus) to the selected stat that the host gets" (so lv9 host gets 2/0/0 and hybrid gets 4/2/2, then at 17 host gets 4/0/0, hybrid gets 8/4/4, as currently written) and the Augmented Physics chain states "The bonus for the hybrid form is half that of the beast itself." So the hybrid form is getting bonuses from both the host bonus and the beast bonus, as currently written. Your most recent post seems to state only one of these two sources is supposed to apply.

So level 19 beast would get 10/8/8 + size bonus, while hybrid would get 5/4/4 from augmented physics PLUS 8/4/4 from overflow. if the hybrid should get anything from the overflow, it should be just the 2/0/0 or 4/0/0.
 

20th – Massive Beast: The body of the beast is unrealistically large compared to that of the host, while in hybrid form you are one size category larger, and while in beast form you are two size categories larger.

so beast gets +2 str, then at 20th gets +4 and hybrid gets +2. I like the way this progression works.

[nonsi]

Netherhost:

Augmentation Overflow (Ex)
The body of a 9th level netherhost becomes stronger due to the beast's influence, yet a little less normal, gaining some of the might of the beast itself. He gains a permanent +2 increase to the ability chosen for Augmented Physics. In addition, the hybrid form gains the benefits of Nether Strikes.
At 17th level, the host gains another +2 increase to the ability chosen for Augmented Physics. In addition the hybrid form gains the benefits of the beast's entire array of physical attacks and the host form gains the benefits of Nether Strikes, despite it not being visually obvious.
The hybrid form, gains twice the above bonuses to the selected physical abilities and gains the above bonuses to the other two physical abilities.

Augmented Physics (Ex)
...
The bonus for the hybrid form is half that of the beast itself.

I forgot about the size increase, that makes the beast bonus better and may solve my question. But now, I'm confused again. The last line of augmentation overflow says "the hybrid gets twice the (augmentation overflow bonus) to the selected stat that the host gets" (so lv9 host gets 2/0/0 and hybrid gets 4/2/2, then at 17 host gets 4/0/0, hybrid gets 8/4/4, as currently written) and the Augmented Physics chain states "The bonus for the hybrid form is half that of the beast itself." So the hybrid form is getting bonuses from both the host bonus and the beast bonus, as currently written. Your most recent post seems to state only one of these two sources is supposed to apply.

So level 19 beast would get 10/8/8 + size bonus, while hybrid would get 5/4/4 from augmented physics PLUS 8/4/4 from overflow. if the hybrid should get anything from the overflow, it should be just the 2/0/0 or 4/0/0.

You're right again. The double benefit somehow eluded me.
The clause about hybrid form will be nixed from Augmentation Overflow.

20th – Massive Beast: The body of the beast is unrealistically large compared to that of the host, while in hybrid form you are one size category larger, and while in beast form you are two size categories larger.
so beast gets +2 str, then at 20th gets +4 and hybrid gets +2. I like the way this progression works.

TBH, the intent was that Augmented Physics already reflects the size increase, not that size adds some more on top of that.

[nonsi]

I like the elementalist changes, then.

A thought has crossed my mind: Does an elementalist really need 4 separate tolerance pools?
I mean, it's always nice to have more, but the game is also about resource management tactics. If someone wishes not to be bothered with resource management, have them play a warlock or a noncaster.

This makes me feel that it might be better if the Elementalist had a single tolerance pool to draw from.
The total amount of accumulated known powers will remain unchanged (e.g. at level 20 you'll have 40/34/28/22 known powers from your primary/secondary/tertiary/quaternary elements respectively), but powers from the 4 elements will all draw from the same pool of tolerance (or "spell points").


OTOH, it feels right that a grandmaster elementalist would be able to shake the earth 5 times a day w/o it coming at an expense of his ability to fly or shoot fireballs.



Thoughts?............

Yea, what you said about warlocks and soulknives makes sense. Maybe overheating would just be limited to a siege situation only.

I decided to put it to the test and see what comes out.
Here's an idea regarding the Warlock and "overheating":

Eldritch Reservoir: level + Cha-score + Con-mod

Costs:

Usage	Cost
EB w/o shape or essence	-1
Each application of shape or essence	-1 (or -1 per shape/essence grade)
Overload	-5 (in addition to the 1-round cooldown)
Iterative blasts	each blast is calculated according to the above
Split Blast	each AoE is calculated according to the above
Invocations	-1 / grade

Recovery: +1 / round.

According to the above, even at 1st level you could exhaust yourself in 5 rounds (you'd probably not have more than a reservoir of 22 (1 + 18 + 3)), but each round you'd have at least 1 point to fire an unmodified EB due to recovery.

At higher levels, you could burn out real fast, which would require feats for boosting one's reservoir (that would come at the expense of character resources).
Alternatively (or in addition), a warlock's reservoir could increase by +2/+3/+4 starting at levels 6/11/16 respectively.


As you can see, things are starting to get messy.

[faden]

I agree with your OTOH. I still like the flavor of 4 separate strain pools. It allows for resource management, and remember, this is already much more restrictive than the original spell pool plan.

To get more nitpicky on another aspect, is there anything that justifies having max saves? Would it be too tricky to say Earth gets max fortitude, Air gets Will, Water gets reflex. Fire... Could spin it thematically to really fit any of the three, so player's choice. This means once you have 7th level 3 elements you get max saves, but before then is limited based on your 1-2 elements. Same net result, but a ton more flavor and sense of accomplishment to get there, at the cost of extra rulekeeping.

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Overload (Su)
Once per minute, a warlock may overload his EB to make it deal additional damage. After overloading, the warlock may not use his EB until after the end of his next turn.

I like those numbers, but how do you get 5 rounds to exhaust? If you're overloading every round that would do it, but you said overload was max 1 per minute. If eliminating the one minute lockout (and EB 1 round lockout), these rules would allow a way to calculate Going Nova and burnout. But this would also represent a power increase (and penalties) for overload. at a cost of 1+5?=6 per overload, this would let you burnout once per 36 seconds indefinitely. If overload cost 9 (not saying this is or isn't a suggestion), that would make it an even minute between overloading indefinitely (to keep power level equivalent to prior structure) but only let you do about 2 in a row (again, this would still be a power increase for overload). I think 5 is probably a better cost, but if I'm understanding you, would represent a large frequency increase for overload.

Without changing overload frequency limitations, reaching eldritch reservoir would be so overburdening it would make it silly to keep this rule.

Increasing regen rate at 6/11/16 would be a good way to keep up with iterative attacks.

Is the regen rate only when not expending? With a regen of 1, does that mean you can use a cost of 1 indefinitely?

What happens when going over eldritch reservoir? become fatigued like strain? fort save to try again? Can you go from 20->26 but then can't do it until 5 rounds go by and you reach your score of 21?

EB keeps gaining 1d6 every other level past 11th level

Just to clarify, does the warlock EB gain 1d6 per level until 11?

[nonsi]

To get more nitpicky on another aspect, is there anything that justifies having max saves? Would it be too tricky to say Earth gets max fortitude, Air gets Will, Water gets reflex. Fire... Could spin it thematically to really fit any of the three, so player's choice. This means once you have 7th level 3 elements you get max saves, but before then is limited based on your 1-2 elements. Same net result, but a ton more flavor and sense of accomplishment to get there, at the cost of extra rulekeeping.

I'm ok with this approach. Maybe I'll implement this myself (I'll need to evaluate viability. not a lot more posting space left).

Btw, IIRC, in 3.5e Air is associated with Reflex (Dex) and Water is associated with Will (Wis).

Overload (Su)
Once per minute, a warlock may overload his EB to make it deal additional damage. After overloading, the warlock may not use his EB until after the end of his next turn.

I like those numbers, but how do you get 5 rounds to exhaust? If you're overloading every round that would do it, but you said overload was max 1 per minute.

Explanation:
"Turn" = your actions (move / standard / full round / swift) during a combat round.
Out of turn actions = immediate actions.
Free actions are applicable in both cases.

(maybe you're confusing the term with other editions/RPGs, where "Turn" = 1 minute)

If eliminating the one minute lockout (and EB 1 round lockout), these rules would allow a way to calculate Going Nova and burnout. But this would also represent a power increase (and penalties) for overload. at a cost of 1+5?=6 per overload, this would let you burnout once per 36 seconds indefinitely.

I think you're neglecting the cost of shapes and essences (could range anywhere from +0 to +8 at high levels).

Increasing regen rate at 6/11/16 would be a good way to keep up with iterative attacks.

It won't close the gap entirely though.
Also, notice that overload is roughly 150%-200% that of normal EB damage (going down), so there's no increase of the cost.

Is the regen rate only when not expending?

No. It's always on.

With a regen of 1, does that mean you can use a cost of 1 indefinitely?

That's right. You're never shooting blanks altogether, but your ammo might not suffice if you overtax your resources.

What happens when going over eldritch reservoir?

Never happens. You just can't do that. This is not another application of Strain & Tolerance (even if the pool is of similar size).

EB keeps gaining 1d6 every other level past 11th level

Just to clarify, does the warlock EB gain 1d6 per level until 11?

In Complete Arcane, the Warlock gains +1d6 at each odd level until 11. Then the damage increases by another 1d6 every 3 levels thereafter (14, 17, 20…)

[nonsi]

.

I considered adding the Aasimar and Tiefling to my Races collection for a very long time, but I never liked their LA.
I think I finally have a formula for both of them to accommodate LA +0.


Aasimar

• +2 Wis, +2 Cha
• Medium size
• Land Speed: 30'
• Darkvision: 60'
• Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5
• Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Sylvan.

Tiefling

• +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha
• Medium size
• Land Speed: 30'
• Darkvision: 60'
• Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5
• Automatic Languages: Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc.

[nonsi]

-Forgery/decipher check DCs are discussed, how does this mechanic work? are you rolling language ranks (1-3) + literacy (1-3) + decipher/forge (0-1) + int mod vs DC x?

I re-worded the mechanics, for better readability.

Decipher Script & Forgery are skill-like language-dependent abilities. Once their requirements are met and a single skill point is invested in either/both, ranks in the given language count as ranks in either/both so-called skills and apply to that language.
. . .
Opposed Checks: Decipher Script is used for opposed checks vs. Forgery attempts.

Notice that nothing's to stop you from investing ranks in a language well passed Mastery level, though few would ever do.




FYI, I'm lowering the Elementalist's BAB to 1/2.

When I first created the Elementalist, its capabilities were nowhere near what they are now.
Now a player would have to choose between the ability to manipulate the elements and a powerful combat suite.
Since this class eventually has x4 as much output as fullcasters, I see no reason whatsoever why it would have powerful combat capabilities at the same time (remember that in these settings there's no way to circumvent the absence of spellcasting when Wild Shape is on).

[nonsi]

Reserved..

[nonsi]

.
I finally have rules for deities (becoming one and advancing as deities)
I've also completed the details for flying castles. Now you can take your flaying castle with you. Now flying castles can vanish and teleport and plane-shift.

[nonsi]

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Status report:

- 2 base classes added: Bladeweaver and Portalist
- PrC alternative: Bone Knight (feat tree)

The above additions complete every character concept I've ever thought of implementing, and just about every character concept viable via official 3.5 materials (with the exception of obviously broken stuff).
If anyone has a notion of a character concept that could fit into a medieval setting that they'd never encountered as a viable 3.5e character build, I'd be happy to hear about it. If the overhaul rules turn out not to already make it viable, I'll try to think of a way to make it so.
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