KILL SIX BILLION DEMONS: Beginnings are false and I am a consummate liar.

[Olinser]

I remember reading something (from the author? From someone quoting the author? I can‘t remember) that said Juggernaut Star was the strongest of the active angels, but still weaker than each of the Seven Deadly Sins.

I don't recall him ever specifying their exact power level differences, but the author DID specify how they stand relative to each other:

Jagganoth > Pre-tomb Jadis > Solomon > Gog-Agog > Incubus > Mottom > Post-tomb Jadis > Mammon

The only thing regarding Juggernaught was an offhanded statement by the author that Juggernaught was 3/4 of a Goku, and that Zoss was 5-7 Gokus.

Where the Demiurges fall relative to Zoss is anybody's guess, and makes it really hard to tell where the Demiurges fall in that range.

If we posit that Jagganoth is weaker than Zoss, that means that he's probably around 4 Gokus, and that means that the other demiurges are weaker - but how MUCH weaker?

I'm guess most of the others fall into the 1.5-2.5 Goku range. But that still leaves them with a huge gap between them an Juggernaught for Maya to fall into without being able to challenge one of them.

I'd be pretty surprised if Maya were able to take even Mammon in a straight fight.

[Aquillion]

Here, but the author has also since half-seriously said i regret answering all power level questions, so I suspect that it's generally not that simple.

My assumption would be that Juggernaut 6 is more powerful than Maya in the abstract - in terms of being able to do more, having a higher spiritual weight class, etc - but that absolutely all of Maya's power is focused on cutting. It's like this fight. Juggernaut's vast cosmic power doesn't help him when Maya is so insanely focused on cutting things that she can beat him with one attack.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

My assumption would be that Juggernaut 6 is more powerful than Maya in the abstract - in terms of being able to do more, having a higher spiritual weight class, etc - but that absolutely all of Maya's power is focused on cutting.

I concur. Cutting is the entirety of Maya's being, Juggernaut Star is many things besides a combat monster.

No i dont, i certainly meant all us readers. That she were badass were nothing new. But 6 Juggernaut were a litteral monster, rated as i recall at about 0.6 Goku by the author, and only below Zoss in the comparison we were given.

I was waiting for the next comic to confirm Juggie is KO'd but...

I rather suspect 6 Juggernaut will soon be 7 Juggernaut.

Called iiiit~

[Gez]

I concur. Cutting is the entirety of Maya's being, Juggernaut Star is many things besides a combat monster.

Nah, Maya is first and foremost a noodle connoisseur. Cutting is just her day job, her passion is in eating pasta.

[danelsan]

Yeah, if we go by Exalted terminology for a moment, Juggernaut is a hella powerful spirit, with high dicepools for a whole lot of things and, while a combat monster, also has many Charms and powers that just represent his nature as a mighty divine being.

Meanwhile, Maya is a Solar with just a freaking ton of Melee Charms and complementary combat Charms.

[lord_khaine]

Im impressed by the degree of knowledge people suddenly are able to show off regarding both Juggernaut and Maya.. it seems i have missed their character sheets being published somewhere..

[danelsan]

Yep, you missed it. 5 dots in melee, 2 in Craft (questions about death), 5 in resistance with a specialty in over-eating, and so on.

[Olinser]

I concur. Cutting is the entirety of Maya's being, Juggernaut Star is many things besides a combat monster.



I was waiting for the next comic to confirm Juggie is KO'd but...



Called iiiit~

Eh, not really. All Maya did was destroy his vessel armor. We already had a demonstration earlier with White Chain that all that does is inconvenience the Angel.

All Juggernaught needs is one of his co-conspirators to make him a new set of armor (or put this one back together) and he can come back. He's still 6 Juggernaught, he's just back in Angel land probably screaming with rage.

[Leewei]

Called iiiit~

Kudos! You certainly did.

[lord_khaine]

Eh, not really. All Maya did was destroy his vessel armor. We already had a demonstration earlier with White Chain that all that does is inconvenience the Angel.

Well.. it did look quite a bit more severe than what were done to White Chain. And we dont know how deep Maya cut things. It could for all we know also have sliced the essence in the shell.

[Aquillion]

My recollection is that nobody can make new angel armor anymore, and that even repairing it is difficult and hasn't been done in hundreds of years. So Juggernaut could be in a bit more trouble than White Chain was, since all she needed was the Vacus Needle removed from her.

(On the other hand, Juggernaut is a major character and the author has described him as a disgustingly overpowered special snowflake type, so I suspect he'll have some way to return eventually. Possibly the rules are different for Thorn Knights - they must get some benefit from devoting themselves to Metatron.)

[Olinser]

My recollection is that nobody can make new angel armor anymore, and that even repairing it is difficult and hasn't been done in hundreds of years. So Juggernaut could be in a bit more trouble than White Chain was, since all she needed was the Vacus Needle removed from her.

(On the other hand, Juggernaut is a major character and the author has described him as a disgustingly overpowered special snowflake type, so I suspect he'll have some way to return eventually. Possibly the rules are different for Thorn Knights - they must get some benefit from devoting themselves to Metatron.)

I mean I have to believe that Michael or Metatron know how to make angel armor. But granted we have no idea how long or how complex a process it is.

Myself, I'm betting somebody like Juggernaught has a spare set of armor squirreled away somewhere he can immediately jump to. He'll still be out of this fight though.

[Leewei]

Metatron created the thorns. He offered Chains new armor, which she refused to accept. I'm thinking Juggernaut will be back sooner rather than later.

[sum1won]

Metatron created the thorns. He offered Chains new armor, which she refused to accept. I'm thinking Juggernaut will be back sooner rather than later.

I'm certain he'll be back, albeit in new armor. I'm not sure if it counts as a new incarnation or not, though.

[lord_khaine]

Will having to reincarnate not drastically weaken Juggernaut though?
As i recall it vipes the past memories of said angel clean, making them start over from scratch.

[Olinser]

Will having to reincarnate not drastically weaken Juggernaut though?
As i recall it vipes the past memories of said angel clean, making them start over from scratch.

Again, that's reincarnation. Juggernaught hasn't been killed, the armor was just destroyed. White Chain's armor has been rendered unuseable twice now and she hasn't had to reincarnate or lost her memories.

[mystic1110]

Remember Angels are basically Nuclear Fire Elementals that become incorporeal when their anchor to the material realm (their armor) is destroyed. I am not sure our beggar knight destroyed the Elemental inside versus just the anchor. Only when the elemental inside is destroyed do they begin their long incarnation sleep. Otherwise they just hangout like those shlubs in the incorporal world.

[Leewei]

Remember Angels are basically Nuclear Fire Elementals that become incorporeal when their anchor to the material realm (their armor) is destroyed. I am not sure our beggar knight destroyed the Elemental inside versus just the anchor. Only when the elemental inside is destroyed do they begin their long incarnation sleep. Otherwise they just hangout like those shlubs in the incorporal world.

I have a very different impression. If your post is word of God, could you put up a link?

[-D-]

I have a very different impression. If your post is word of God, could you put up a link?

From the wikipedia: Angels aka Aeons

All angels are the children of UN and have white-colored souls.[1] Meanwhile their bodies are made of energy, or controlled nuclear explosions housed in an armored shell.[5] All angels are therefore genderless, but many are masculine in their mannerisms.

When Zoss breached the firmament, he slew the prime angels, becoming the de facto king of Throne.[3] With the rest of the demiurges he restored order to Throne by creating bodies for the angels.[4] Some time later, the Concordant Knights were established in order to keep peace throughout the world. But as Throne grew corrupted once again, the Universal War broke out, destroying the Concordance in an event known as the Shattering.

[Leewei]

"Meanwhile their bodies are made of energy, or controlled nuclear explosions housed in an armored shell (emphasis added)."

This is where we differ. You seem to be thinking that the armored shell is inconsequential, while my own impression is that reincarnation is the replacement of this shell. I doubt we'd be able to sway each other, but feel free to provide additional links. It's fun stuff to read.

[Leewei]

New comic up. Auntie is one heck of a master of the act of cutting.

[Domochevsky]

Well, mistakes were made. And continue to be made. In fact, I'm pretty sure this is still the first mistake happening.

[Aquillion]

This is where we differ. You seem to be thinking that the armored shell is inconsequential, while my own impression is that reincarnation is the replacement of this shell. I doubt we'd be able to sway each other, but feel free to provide additional links. It's fun stuff to read.

That doesn't line up with Delicious' death, though, since she wasn't in her armor at the time.

(Also, they no longer make or even repair armor, so your interpretation that reincarnation involves a new set of armor would mean that angels no longer reincarnate ever, which also doesn't line up with Delicious' expectation that they would reincarnate.)

[Leewei]

That doesn't line up with Delicious' death, though, since she wasn't in her armor at the time.

(Also, they no longer make or even repair armor, so your interpretation that reincarnation involves a new set of armor would mean that angels no longer reincarnate ever, which also doesn't line up with Delicious' expectation that they would reincarnate.)

Delicious's "death" was something novel to Chains, who had previously been through 82 incarnations. Metatron's offer of new armor to Chains, and the distinct appearance of the Thorns' armor, both contradict your assertion that armor is no longer made or repaired. Chains' armor itself seems to have been repaired since her fight with Delicious.

[Olinser]

Uh oh. Here comes Mother Ohm.

**** IS ABOUT TO GO DOWN PEOPLE!!!!

Its been pretty telegraphed that Mottom and Maya are going to fight here. Wonder whether Maya stands a chance - Mottom is the 2nd weakest Demiurge. Maybe we'll finally get a real fight. Other than White Chain vs Delicious just about every 1v1 fight in this series has been on person one-hit KOing the other.

I kind of feel like Mottom is going to be beating Maya down and Alison is going to come up with a big power surge from the Key that is going to catch Mottom enough by surprise that she's going to get beaten - and then Allison is probably going to leave her lying in the dirt to die of old age.

[Narkis]

Yeah, Mottom may have just recovered from a heroic BSOD and be far from the peak of her power, but she's still one of the seven rulers of creation, and I suspect we're about to find out why.

Also, for those who haven't noticed, volume 1 of the print version is out. I've had my local store order it, hopefuly it'll be here soon.

[Olinser]

Oh yeah. She's PISSED.

[-D-]

Oh yeah. She's PISSED.

That's like saying our glorious radiant Star queen is a bit warm.

She's ABSOLUTELY LIVID. Time to master that blade of want Allison.

[Olinser]

Well then. That went pretty much exactly how you'd expect it to go.

[Nettlekid]

I still don't fully understand what Mottom had wanted from Allison when she took her to the butt-peach tree. Mottom expressed fear and panic about having to sustain the empires that were leeching off of her, and about having to keep sacrificing women to the husband tree in exchange for fruits of youth which were working less and less. She was scared of death, either being consumed (figuratively or perhaps literally) by the horde or by just withering away as the fruits stopped working. But she wanted Allison to take it over, all Mottom's power and prestige? And if Allison did, then either Mottom would be cast into obscurity and killed by anyone with a grudge, or simply be denied access to the butt tree and die anyway. And if Mottom was accepting of that, then why not just stop eating the fruits and age away? I just don't get what her desired outcome was.