Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword

[Qwertystop]

Spoiler: Fi is getting on my nerves more and more

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Bye, bye, sky. Hello, woods, haven't we met before? Seriously, is there any adventuring game where the woods aren't one of the starting levels?

All this talk of tradition is really annoying me. This is supposed to be the first in the series, but there's already a royal Zelda, a prophecised Link, ancient secrets being revealed and an old evil returning. This should be the place where we learn about how these things came about in future generations! Even the technology is still in the standard fantasy era, instead of something bronze age or something. In fact, let's have a stone age game:

Spoiler: I got a little carried away...

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Link is a lone wolf hunter loosely tied to the Hyrule clan. The Gerudo clan, led by their newly crowned leader Ganon destroy the Hyrule clan and establish dominance over the surrounding area. Link survives the loss of his allies and goes into hiding without the power to avenge them. He decides to visit the holy areas of each goddess in the hopes of aquiring the power to overthrow the Gerudo. This quest will take him over the lands, into some of the most dangerous locations. His travelling companion is a mysterious hunter who is actually Zelda, the daughter of the tribe's leader, which will be revealed later.

To catch the attention of each goddess, he has to drastically remodel each holy place. The goddesses will bless him out of respect for his efforts, but because he technically desecrated their places of worship, this power comes with the price of serving one for all his years, serving the other beyond death and serving the third with all his strength/will (there are three goddesses, yes?). As Link grows in power and begins to take parts of the Gerudo kingdom, Ganon resorts to poorly controlled dark magics to warp his subjects into powerful monsters in the hope of defeating Link. At the penultimate dungeon, Link discovers that instead of the godesses being rivals as was assumed, they are allies(/sisters?) and therefore he has given away his free will, life and death to a trio of immortal beings, to be called on whenever they wish. By now though, Ganon's monster hordes are too numerous and destructive, so with a heavy heart he calls out to the goddesses and reaffirms his vows to them in exchange for the power to defeat Ganon at last. He and Zelda both recieve blessings and go to Ganon's fort.

With his kingdom already in ruins and his powers out of his control, the dark king is aware that he has lost long ago and only his hatred makes him fight. After an epic battle, he surrenders and attempts to undo the curses he placed on the realm and its people. The spell goes drastically wrong, and Link sacrifices himself to keep it contained. However, the blessings he recieved stabilise the spell, and Ganon is able to fix his handiwork. The land is still torn by war and he escapes Zelda and her guards after letting them know of his intent to master his magic and return to conquer the land. Link slowly dies over the next few weeks, watching Zelda start to forge a kingdom. On his death, the years are shown to speed by until an aged and extremely powerful Ganon starts a war with Zelda's kingdom. The final scene is of a moblin prowling the forest, suddenly struck down by a young blond hunter.

Most of the magic should be barely controlled, with unpredictable results. Even the goddesses' boons will frequently have unexpected aspects. Weapons should be made of stone or bone (maybe you upgrade your sword by making a new one from the bones of the last boss?) and the dungeons should be less defined, so their first levels should be encountered before the entrance proper. The big problem is that as far as I know, Ganon becomes immortal in Ocarina of Time, so his return after this age makes no sense.

Anyway, nice stuff. Gorons are cool. I really like Gorko's highly exaggerated vision of Skyloft. He's got a point though: anything that isolated has to have some magic stuff to survive.

Link looks all grown up in his big boy's clothes. So proud. *Dad pipe*


To be honest, not much happened here. Still, the next episode should be more interesting.

In order: Zelda's just the Headmaster's daughter (though I suppose that's a lot bigger in context since the school appears to be the only organization of meaningful size), this is the first Link prophesy (and says nothing about future iterations), and... yeah. The next two bundle together: Just because this is the first iteration of the cycle with the Triforce, doesn't mean it's the first time anything sufficiently mythic happened. The ancient secrets and evils just didn't fit the LoZ pattern.

And the tech never really advances, with the exception of Spirit Tracks, so it's not too surprising that the cycle started out in roughly the same place as well.

That is a very neat game idea. Shame it probably won't happen - Skyward is very firmly cemented as starting the cycle (personally, I think it was poorly done - basically a gigantic "THIS SETS THINGS UP FOR ALL FUTURE LOZ GAMES EVER"). Your idea fits what Skyward's said of what came before quite well, though - it could potentially be made to work, except for the problem of having to publish a game that comes earlier in the timeline than the one that they very heavily pushed as being first.

Regarding Ganondorf's immortality (Ganon is when he's a giant pig-monster): Not sure whether or not he becomes immortal in OOT (haven't played it in a while), but more generally there's a reincarnation dealie going on for all three.

[LaZodiac]

All will be revealed.

#Giant_Booming_Voice

[Seerow]

Oh going to start watching this now.

I feel like Skyward Sword gets a bad rap because of the motion controls. The game really is beautiful to look at and had one of the more cohesive Zelda stories. I have the advantage of my primary experience with the game was watching my brother play through it rather than playing myself, so weird controls were never an issue to me. But given it's been a few years, this is a great excuse to get reacquainted with the game.

[LaZodiac]

Oh going to start watching this now.

I feel like Skyward Sword gets a bad rap because of the motion controls. The game really is beautiful to look at and had one of the more cohesive Zelda stories. I have the advantage of my primary experience with the game was watching my brother play through it rather than playing myself, so weird controls were never an issue to me. But given it's been a few years, this is a great excuse to get reacquainted with the game.

Yup! Hope you enjoy! I've found that some people really hate the controls, while some really like them. The people who like them tended to have enough space to move around, and set the sensor bar up correctly. The people who didn't either put the bar in wrong, or just didn't have enough space for it.

[HalfTangible]

All will be revealed.

#Giant_Booming_Voice

OW MY EARS

Darnnit Lala...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Interesting. Never got to play this one due to my irrational hate of the Wii system and the control mechanics therein. I play video games to avoid physical exercise and I decline to be forced into doing it anyway. However, I did enjoy Twilight Princess on my Gamecube. I thought it was one of the better offerings of the series, right up there with LTTP. I... wasn't a big fan of the N64 era. Let's leave it at that. I also have my own head-cannon about a more proper timeline than the farce that is the 'official' one, but that's a whole 'nother rant.

It'll be interesting to see how this game plays out.

[LaZodiac]

We'll discuss the timeline in more detail once we get further into the game proper, don't you worry. Then you can air your grievances. Though keep in mind we'll only be covering the stuff in Skyward Sword proper, not stuff after it (that'll be for another thread.)

[TheWombatOfDoom]

We'll discuss the timeline in more detail once we get further into the game proper, don't you worry. Then you can air your grievances. Though keep in mind we'll only be covering the stuff in Skyward Sword proper, not stuff after it (that'll be for another thread.)

Legend of Zelda: Thread of Awesome, is a good place to go for such debates!

[LaZodiac]

Legend of Zelda: Thread of Awesome, is a good place to go for such debates!

Yeah but my intent with going through the Zelda games is to present the games in the timeline order and discuss them as it unfolds, and as such a more...lets say public and open place is a bit to large of an environment for what I'm shooting for.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Yeah but my intent with going through the Zelda games is to present the games in the timeline order and discuss them as it unfolds, and as such a more...lets say public and open place is a bit to large of an environment for what I'm shooting for.

Oh! Wait, you're going to do all of them?! Oh this is awesome news.

[LaZodiac]

Oh! Wait, you're going to do all of them?! Oh this is awesome news.

Not in a ROW mind you. I love Zelda but there's only so much one can take at any given time

The intent is Zelda, other thing, Zelda, another other thing, and so on until we have finished all of the Zeldas. As with all my other threads, contribution gleans rewards! So be active with discussions!

[Durkoala]

Yeah hey get used to Fi being talkative, she...talks a lot.

Wood's are a good starting location.

This isn't a royal Zelda. She's just the daughter of the guy in charge of the knight school. That's not royal at all! She was just picked to be the Goddess Priestess. All those secrets and "prophecy" things, you'll see an explanation for them don't worry. This IS still the first game, trust me. Once it becomes appropriates I'll start showing off the fancier things.

Though yes I'll note that this DOES show the origin of the green outfit. It's just the random color they chose for this year. Last year it was yellow. See, things!

Whoa, you did go a little overboard. That's okay though, it's cool! Not entirely accurate given the events of this game though. Don't worry, all will be revealed~

Oh, no. I'll see if she's more tolerable when she's muted.

I just want to see a game with late level, dark, mysterious and scary woods. Is that too much to ask?

I agree with Qwertystop's assessment that 'daughter of the only important organisation in skyloft' is pretty close to being a princess. Her dad also knows about the goddess sword, so he isn't just the guy who orders the teachers around. As for the rest... I'll see in time, I suppose.

In order: Zelda's just the Headmaster's daughter (though I suppose that's a lot bigger in context since the school appears to be the only organization of meaningful size), this is the first Link prophesy (and says nothing about future iterations), and... yeah. The next two bundle together: Just because this is the first iteration of the cycle with the Triforce, doesn't mean it's the first time anything sufficiently mythic happened. The ancient secrets and evils just didn't fit the LoZ pattern.

And the tech never really advances, with the exception of Spirit Tracks, so it's not too surprising that the cycle started out in roughly the same place as well.

That is a very neat game idea. Shame it probably won't happen - Skyward is very firmly cemented as starting the cycle (personally, I think it was poorly done - basically a gigantic "THIS SETS THINGS UP FOR ALL FUTURE LOZ GAMES EVER"). Your idea fits what Skyward's said of what came before quite well, though - it could potentially be made to work, except for the problem of having to publish a game that comes earlier in the timeline than the one that they very heavily pushed as being first.

Regarding Ganondorf's immortality (Ganon is when he's a giant pig-monster): Not sure whether or not he becomes immortal in OOT (haven't played it in a while), but more generally there's a reincarnation dealie going on for all three.

I think that's my problem with the game so far: despite it apparently being the start of the series, nothing feels really different. If Spirit Tracks, the latest game on the timeline (I think), can stretch the technology to show that, the game that shows how things came to be should be able to function with a lower tech level. It doesn't have to be a realistic tech level, just something noticably lower than the norm. So far, Zelda not being an official princess and the starting area being isolated from the rest of the world are the only differences I can think of.

Ganon's the pig form? It sounds like it should be the other way around, really. 'I am Wilhelmstern, Dark Lord of the Sainsburys Car Park! Behold my true form and despair! Wilhel has come!' Anyway, the reincarnation makes sense as Zelda clearly isn't the same person between games and Link seems to be a different guy each time as well, so the other third of the triforce also being reincarnated makes sense, but I'm sure I heard that Ganondorf was immortal/retained his memories between the games as well.

Thanks for the game praise. There's not really much that I want to add, except that I still have no idea how to deal with the Ganon timeline problem. Link and Zelda's reincarnation is explained by the fact that they pledged themselves to be the goddesses' pawns in exchange for the power to overthrow the villain, but I don't know how that would be the case for Ganondorf. I also really want the villain to be more or less human, not a pixie sorcerer or a sealed god, as then the magic is an unpredictable asset for all major parties. However, letting the series essentially be kicked off by some random bloke who won't be returning doesn't really feel right. Anyway, this probably doesn't matter because this game probably won't get made unless I get into a high position in Nintendo.

[Qwertystop]

Ganon's the pig form? It sounds like it should be the other way around, really. 'I am Wilhelmstern, Dark Lord of the Sainsburys Car Park! Behold my true form and despair! Wilhel has come!' Anyway, the reincarnation makes sense as Zelda clearly isn't the same person between games and Link seems to be a different guy each time as well, so the other third of the triforce also being reincarnated makes sense, but I'm sure I heard that Ganondorf was immortal/retained his memories between the games as well.

Thanks for the game praise. There's not really much that I want to add, except that I still have no idea how to deal with the Ganon timeline problem. Link and Zelda's reincarnation is explained by the fact that they pledged themselves to be the goddesses' pawns in exchange for the power to overthrow the villain, but I don't know how that would be the case for Ganondorf. I also really want the villain to be more or less human, not a pixie sorcerer or a sealed god, as then the magic is an unpredictable asset for all major parties. However, letting the series essentially be kicked off by some random bloke who won't be returning doesn't really feel right. Anyway, this probably doesn't matter because this game probably won't get made unless I get into a high position in Nintendo.

Well, just because there would be a new Ganondorf eventually doesn't mean that the current one is fine with dying, and he is typically pretty good at magic. I've no idea whether it's true that he set things up so he wouldn't die at some point, but it wouldn't surprise me.

The problem really sort of solves itself. Not telling how, though, because it's major spoilers for the end of this game, but seriously - it fits really well. The reincarnation thing is set up by the end of Skyward, but your game idea could work nicely for leading into it.

[HalfTangible]

Spoiler: Not Skyward Sword - Hi Durkoala

Show

Oh, no. I'll see if she's more tolerable when she's muted.

I just want to see a game with late level, dark, mysterious and scary woods. Is that too much to ask?

I agree with Qwertystop's assessment that 'daughter of the only important organisation in skyloft' is pretty close to being a princess. Her dad also knows about the goddess sword, so he isn't just the guy who orders the teachers around. As for the rest... I'll see in time, I suppose.



I think that's my problem with the game so far: despite it apparently being the start of the series, nothing feels really different. If Spirit Tracks, the latest game on the timeline (I think), can stretch the technology to show that, the game that shows how things came to be should be able to function with a lower tech level. It doesn't have to be a realistic tech level, just something noticably lower than the norm. So far, Zelda not being an official princess and the starting area being isolated from the rest of the world are the only differences I can think of.

Ganon's the pig form? It sounds like it should be the other way around, really. 'I am Wilhelmstern, Dark Lord of the Sainsburys Car Park! Behold my true form and despair! Wilhel has come!' Anyway, the reincarnation makes sense as Zelda clearly isn't the same person between games and Link seems to be a different guy each time as well, so the other third of the triforce also being reincarnated makes sense, but I'm sure I heard that Ganondorf was immortal/retained his memories between the games as well.

Thanks for the game praise. There's not really much that I want to add, except that I still have no idea how to deal with the Ganon timeline problem. Link and Zelda's reincarnation is explained by the fact that they pledged themselves to be the goddesses' pawns in exchange for the power to overthrow the villain, but I don't know how that would be the case for Ganondorf. I also really want the villain to be more or less human, not a pixie sorcerer or a sealed god, as then the magic is an unpredictable asset for all major parties. However, letting the series essentially be kicked off by some random bloke who won't be returning doesn't really feel right. Anyway, this probably doesn't matter because this game probably won't get made unless I get into a high position in Nintendo.

It depends on the timeline. In several instances, the Ganon/dorf we fight is one from a previous point in the timeline. The one from Twilight Princess, for instance, was the one sealed away in the Sacred Realm at the end of Ocarina of Time (the one in the child timeline, not the one you fight and kill). Though honestly, I'm not sure that one counts, since that Ganondorf was sealed specifically to stop the adult timeline from happening, so the Ganondorf you fight in OoT isn't the same ganondorf who appears in Twilight Princess and ah f#@% it this timeline's weird either way.

In each incarnation the three have the same soul, but whether or not it's the exact same being from another game depends on the particular game.

[LaZodiac]

*idiot spoiler talk*

Yo HT remember the part where I said we're only really talking about stuff in Skyward Sword? Feel free to put it in spoiler tags though.

[HalfTangible]

Yo HT remember the part where I said we're only really talking about stuff in Skyward Sword? Feel free to put it in spoiler tags though.

"Idiot spoiler talk"

Just because I'm American does not mean I'm an American Idiot.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Spoiler: Not Skyward Sword - Hi Durkoala

Show

It depends on the timeline. In several instances, the Ganon/dorf we fight is one from a previous point in the timeline. The one from Twilight Princess, for instance, was the one sealed away in the Sacred Realm at the end of Ocarina of Time (the one in the child timeline, not the one you fight and kill). Though honestly, I'm not sure that one counts, since that Ganondorf was sealed specifically to stop the adult timeline from happening, so the Ganondorf you fight in OoT isn't the same ganondorf who appears in Twilight Princess and ah f#@% it this timeline's weird either way.

In each incarnation the three have the same soul, but whether or not it's the exact same being from another game depends on the particular game.

Spoiler

Show

And that's one of my big problems with the multiple timelines thing. You only have a clover-leaf time paradox. Let me spell it out for you:

Child link finds sword. Goes back and forth to a specific point seven years in the future, kicks Gannon's backside, and puts the sword back. The only time you have two different links is during that seven years, and even then only at the end when he's randomly showing up to kick Gannon's arse. At the end, he puts the sword back, goes back in time seven years, and goes off to Majora's Mask. There can be no other timeline since it is all internally consistent and unravels itself after the events conclude. 'Adult LInk' timeline ends abruptly when he puts the Master Sword back. Period. The end. Ceases to be. Finite. The 'adult timeline' is identical to the 'youth timeline', he's just aged naturally seven years the second time around and stays out of Hyrule to prevent himself from screwing things up with his double.

Then Gannon shows back up, and Link is busy with his PTSD somewhere well away from Hyrule and unable to answer the call, but still having the Triforce of Courage, c-blocking anyone ELSE from becoming the next Hero, so the Sages seal him up. Which eventually ends up in Twilight Princess, which is multiple generations in the future, and Link kicks his arse again. Then he breaks free AGAIN, because this is Gannon we are talking about, the Triforce of Power won't let him fade away forever, he gets sealed by the Sages AGAIN, gets released AGAIN, and then you have the events which create Windwaker. The events of Twilight Princess are not mentioned in the legends of Windwaker because it's so many generations removed that someone down the line forgot about that particular iteration or mistook the second sealing of the sages for the first in some musty tome and the mistake went into legend. It wouldn't be the first time, after all.

Don't worry, you're not going to rip any holes in the fabric of space and time. It's more like wibbldy-wobbldy-timey-wimey... stuff.

I will say that the Wii makes Link look like an ultimate retard by running around with a naked blade in that absolutely rediculous pose. It looks like he's trying to count the leaves in the trees overhead, coming up with the number 'potato', and being entirely happy with that result.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler

Show

And that's one of my big problems with the multiple timelines thing. You only have a clover-leaf time paradox. Let me spell it out for you:

Child link finds sword. Goes back and forth to a specific point seven years in the future, kicks Gannon's backside, and puts the sword back. The only time you have two different links is during that seven years, and even then only at the end when he's randomly showing up to kick Gannon's arse. At the end, he puts the sword back, goes back in time seven years, and goes off to Majora's Mask. There can be no other timeline since it is all internally consistent and unravels itself after the events conclude. 'Adult LInk' timeline ends abruptly when he puts the Master Sword back. Period. The end. Ceases to be. Finite. The 'adult timeline' is identical to the 'youth timeline', he's just aged naturally seven years the second time around and stays out of Hyrule to prevent himself from screwing things up with his double.

Then Gannon shows back up, and Link is busy with his PTSD somewhere well away from Hyrule and unable to answer the call, but still having the Triforce of Courage, c-blocking anyone ELSE from becoming the next Hero, so the Sages seal him up. Which eventually ends up in Twilight Princess, which is multiple generations in the future, and Link kicks his arse again. Then he breaks free AGAIN, because this is Gannon we are talking about, the Triforce of Power won't let him fade away forever, he gets sealed by the Sages AGAIN, gets released AGAIN, and then you have the events which create Windwaker. The events of Twilight Princess are not mentioned in the legends of Windwaker because it's so many generations removed that someone down the line forgot about that particular iteration or mistook the second sealing of the sages for the first in some musty tome and the mistake went into legend. It wouldn't be the first time, after all.

Don't worry, you're not going to rip any holes in the fabric of space and time. It's more like wibbldy-wobbldy-timey-wimey... stuff.

I will say that the Wii makes Link look like an ultimate retard by running around with a naked blade in that absolutely rediculous pose. It looks like he's trying to count the leaves in the trees overhead, coming up with the number 'potato', and being entirely happy with that result.

Spoiler

Show

That's not how it works and your obligatory quoting of Dr Who is a little silly. Like I said we'll discuss WHY that's not the case later. Seriously, just trust me on this.

To be fair it's only Skyward Sword that does it that way. Though...he doesn't look RETARDED like you're implying, it's just a little silly looking.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Spoiler

Show

That's not how it works and your obligatory quoting of Dr Who is a little silly. Like I said we'll discuss WHY that's not the case later. Seriously, just trust me on this.

To be fair it's only Skyward Sword that does it that way. Though...he doesn't look RETARDED like you're implying, it's just a little silly looking.

As a point of clarification: I'm not implying anything, I'm outright stating it.

[LaZodiac]

As a point of clarification: I'm not implying anything, I'm outright stating it.

Rude but noted. It's a consequence of how the motion detection works.

[huttj509]

As a point of clarification: I'm not implying anything, I'm outright stating it.

If you don't want him to look like that, hold the wiimote differently.

[Teddy]

Bye, bye, sky. Hello, woods, haven't we met before? Seriously, is there any adventuring game where the woods aren't one of the starting levels?

Well, if you need an area where you can motivate why the player is there and put easy monsters for them to fight without having to introducing the main conflict too early, I think forests may simply be the best suited. Put in some animals, wild tribespeople and moderately benevolent forest monsters and then turn up their aggression level to trigger the "something is off" alarm, and you're practically set for the beginning.

All this talk of tradition is really annoying me. This is supposed to be the first in the series, but there's already a royal Zelda, a prophecised Link, ancient secrets being revealed and an old evil returning. This should be the place where we learn about how these things came about in future generations! Even the technology is still in the standard fantasy era, instead of something bronze age or something. In fact, let's have a stone age game:

Spoiler: I got a little carried away...

Show

Link is a lone wolf hunter loosely tied to the Hyrule clan. The Gerudo clan, led by their newly crowned leader Ganon destroy the Hyrule clan and establish dominance over the surrounding area. Link survives the loss of his allies and goes into hiding without the power to avenge them. He decides to visit the holy areas of each goddess in the hopes of aquiring the power to overthrow the Gerudo. This quest will take him over the lands, into some of the most dangerous locations. His travelling companion is a mysterious hunter who is actually Zelda, the daughter of the tribe's leader, which will be revealed later.

To catch the attention of each goddess, he has to drastically remodel each holy place. The goddesses will bless him out of respect for his efforts, but because he technically desecrated their places of worship, this power comes with the price of serving one for all his years, serving the other beyond death and serving the third with all his strength/will (there are three goddesses, yes?). As Link grows in power and begins to take parts of the Gerudo kingdom, Ganon resorts to poorly controlled dark magics to warp his subjects into powerful monsters in the hope of defeating Link. At the penultimate dungeon, Link discovers that instead of the godesses being rivals as was assumed, they are allies(/sisters?) and therefore he has given away his free will, life and death to a trio of immortal beings, to be called on whenever they wish. By now though, Ganon's monster hordes are too numerous and destructive, so with a heavy heart he calls out to the goddesses and reaffirms his vows to them in exchange for the power to defeat Ganon at last. He and Zelda both recieve blessings and go to Ganon's fort.

With his kingdom already in ruins and his powers out of his control, the dark king is aware that he has lost long ago and only his hatred makes him fight. After an epic battle, he surrenders and attempts to undo the curses he placed on the realm and its people. The spell goes drastically wrong, and Link sacrifices himself to keep it contained. However, the blessings he recieved stabilise the spell, and Ganon is able to fix his handiwork. The land is still torn by war and he escapes Zelda and her guards after letting them know of his intent to master his magic and return to conquer the land. Link slowly dies over the next few weeks, watching Zelda start to forge a kingdom. On his death, the years are shown to speed by until an aged and extremely powerful Ganon starts a war with Zelda's kingdom. The final scene is of a moblin prowling the forest, suddenly struck down by a young blond hunter.

Most of the magic should be barely controlled, with unpredictable results. Even the goddesses' boons will frequently have unexpected aspects. Weapons should be made of stone or bone (maybe you upgrade your sword by making a new one from the bones of the last boss?) and the dungeons should be less defined, so their first levels should be encountered before the entrance proper. The big problem is that as far as I know, Ganon becomes immortal in Ocarina of Time, so his return after this age makes no sense.

Didn't you make Zelda quasi-royal yourself just now?

Anyway, nice stuff. Gorons are cool. I really like Gorko's highly exaggerated vision of Skyloft. He's got a point though: anything that isolated has to have some magic stuff to survive.

I also like how he actually manages to be spot-on about some things, like magical springs, only to continue way over the top with it, like aforementioned springs curing all ailments.

[Durkoala]

Not in a ROW mind you. I love Zelda but there's only so much one can take at any given time

The intent is Zelda, other thing, Zelda, another other thing, and so on until we have finished all of the Zeldas. As with all my other threads, contribution gleans rewards! So be active with discussions!

Damn, now I have to wait through an interlude before we get to one of the two games I've played! This does make me curious as to whether you will be trying to 100% the games and if you have any plans for if a new game is released at a point you've already passed?

Well, just because there would be a new Ganondorf eventually doesn't mean that the current one is fine with dying, and he is typically pretty good at magic. I've no idea whether it's true that he set things up so he wouldn't die at some point, but it wouldn't surprise me.

The problem really sort of solves itself. Not telling how, though, because it's major spoilers for the end of this game, but seriously - it fits really well. The reincarnation thing is set up by the end of Skyward, but your game idea could work nicely for leading into it.

This series makes too much sense for what it is. Don't get me wrong, I do like LoZ, but it's a very easy series to take the mick out of. After the fifth cycle, you'd think people would get the idea to increase the army in time for a mute blond boy with a penchant for petty vandalism's tenth birthday and nip the whole thing in the bud.

Anyway, I'll see how this plays out. Long tutorial notwithstanding, I'm quite liking the look of this game, even if the Deku Babas* are clearly a clumsy attempt to shoehorn in more use of the wii swordfighting.

*my japanese is practically non-existant, but doesn't that mean 'Little Old Lady'?


---

Well, if you need an area where you can motivate why the player is there and put easy monsters for them to fight without having to introducing the main conflict too early, I think forests may simply be the best suited. Put in some animals, wild tribespeople and moderately benevolent forest monsters and then turn up their aggression level to trigger the "something is off" alarm, and you're practically set for the beginning.

Didn't you make Zelda quasi-royal yourself just now?

I also like how he actually manages to be spot-on about some things, like magical springs, only to continue way over the top with it, like aforementioned springs curing all ailments.

I just like the idea of the unending dark woods filled with wolves and other monsters, primeval, forbidding and deadly. Start the adventure on the beach or something where there's reason for things to wash up, but it won't be really tough because most large predators (sapient or otherwise) can't get much from the ecosystem.

Zelda, royal? noooo.... OK, I must be too used to hearing her referred to as Princess Zelda. The point, though, is that she's just the daughter of the guy who runs the tribe, instead of being the heir to an ancient secret or a child of prophecy, whose later position as the instrument of divine will is a consequence of her own actions. ...I really want to make this game.

Yeah, and that. I wonder if he'll ever find out that Link is from Skyloft/get to visit it himself? I'd love to see his reaction.

[LaZodiac]

Damn, now I have to wait through an interlude before we get to one of the two games I've played! This does make me curious as to whether you will be trying to 100% the games and if you have any plans for if a new game is released at a point you've already passed?

This series makes too much sense for what it is. Don't get me wrong, I do like LoZ, but it's a very easy series to take the mick out of. After the fifth cycle, you'd think people would get the idea to increase the army in time for a mute blond boy with a penchant for petty vandalism's tenth birthday and nip the whole thing in the bud.

Anyway, I'll see how this plays out. Long tutorial notwithstanding, I'm quite liking the look of this game, even if the Deku Babas* are clearly a clumsy attempt to shoehorn in more use of the wii swordfighting.

*my japanese is practically non-existant, but doesn't that mean 'Little Old Lady'?

I'm 100% each game as much as physically possible. If a new game comes out (and it will) I'll play it to completion, consult the necrosages, and find out where on the timeline it takes place. Then play it once I'm in a proper rotation for it.

That's actually the plot of the Zelda Dynasty Warriors spin off, 100%. They are literally waiting for the hero to show up and building armies in the meantime.

Deku Baba essentially means that, but I can't check the exact translation. Remember, some things combined together make different things! I wouldn't say they're a clumsy attempt to shoehorn in more use of the swordfighting (Deku Baba have almost always been in Zelda) but I see what you mean. Think of it as a puzzle to solve, violently.

[Durkoala]

I'm 100% each game as much as physically possible. If a new game comes out (and it will) I'll play it to completion, consult the necrosages, and find out where on the timeline it takes place. Then play it once I'm in a proper rotation for it.

That's actually the plot of the Zelda Dynasty Warriors spin off, 100%. They are literally waiting for the hero to show up and building armies in the meantime.

Deku Baba essentially means that, but I can't check the exact translation. Remember, some things combined together make different things! I wouldn't say they're a clumsy attempt to shoehorn in more use of the swordfighting (Deku Baba have almost always been in Zelda) but I see what you mean. Think of it as a puzzle to solve, violently.

So, you'll play it in place of the next Zelda game if you've missed its rightful slot then? I think that's what you're saying.

Talking of Zelda Dynasty Warriors a) does it fit in the timeline and b) are you going to play it as part of this point? I don't know much about it, even by the standards of my Zelda knowledge.

It's not so much that they're there (They also appear in Spirit Tracks and are really annoying), it's that they are split between horizontal and vertical vulnerablities, don't switch between these modes and it's outright said that you need to slash them in different ways instead of trusting the player to be capable of basic deduction.

... I don't know why I'm being so hard on this game. It's not been too bad so far.

[LaZodiac]

So, you'll play it in place of the next Zelda game if you've missed its rightful slot then? I think that's what you're saying.

Talking of Zelda Dynasty Warriors a) does it fit in the timeline and b) are you going to play it as part of this point? I don't know much about it, even by the standards of my Zelda knowledge.

It's not so much that they're there (They also appear in Spirit Tracks and are really annoying), it's that they are split between horizontal and vertical vulnerablities, don't switch between these modes and it's outright said that you need to slash them in different ways instead of trusting the player to be capable of basic deduction.

... I don't know why I'm being so hard on this game. It's not been too bad so far.

That is what I'm going to do, yes.

Hyrule Warriors doesn't fit the timeline, it's in it's own kind of pocket dimension thing, where a person who can observe the actual timelines exists. I'm not going to play it, mostly because completion for that game is really tough.

Well keep in mind we only got Fi telling us how to cut them because I asked her too. She wouldn't of told me otherwise. Also, who says there isn't ones that change

[Durkoala]

That is what I'm going to do, yes.

Hyrule Warriors doesn't fit the timeline, it's in it's own kind of pocket dimension thing, where a person who can observe the actual timelines exists. I'm not going to play it, mostly because completion for that game is really tough.

Well keep in mind we only got Fi telling us how to cut them because I asked her too. She wouldn't of told me otherwise. Also, who says there isn't ones that change

Oh, OK, then.

Oh, OK, then.

Sorry, telling the difference between player interaction and scripted events is a bit tricky when you're watching a video, especially when it's a system you haven't really used. I'm glad to hear that the plants change themselves though.

[HalfTangible]

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And that's one of my big problems with the multiple timelines thing. You only have a clover-leaf time paradox. Let me spell it out for you:

Child link finds sword. Goes back and forth to a specific point seven years in the future, kicks Gannon's backside, and puts the sword back. The only time you have two different links is during that seven years, and even then only at the end when he's randomly showing up to kick Gannon's arse. At the end, he puts the sword back, goes back in time seven years, and goes off to Majora's Mask. There can be no other timeline since it is all internally consistent and unravels itself after the events conclude. 'Adult LInk' timeline ends abruptly when he puts the Master Sword back. Period. The end. Ceases to be. Finite. The 'adult timeline' is identical to the 'youth timeline', he's just aged naturally seven years the second time around and stays out of Hyrule to prevent himself from screwing things up with his double.

Then Gannon shows back up, and Link is busy with his PTSD somewhere well away from Hyrule and unable to answer the call, but still having the Triforce of Courage, c-blocking anyone ELSE from becoming the next Hero, so the Sages seal him up. Which eventually ends up in Twilight Princess, which is multiple generations in the future, and Link kicks his arse again. Then he breaks free AGAIN, because this is Gannon we are talking about, the Triforce of Power won't let him fade away forever, he gets sealed by the Sages AGAIN, gets released AGAIN, and then you have the events which create Windwaker. The events of Twilight Princess are not mentioned in the legends of Windwaker because it's so many generations removed that someone down the line forgot about that particular iteration or mistook the second sealing of the sages for the first in some musty tome and the mistake went into legend. It wouldn't be the first time, after all.

Don't worry, you're not going to rip any holes in the fabric of space and time. It's more like wibbldy-wobbldy-timey-wimey... stuff.

I will say that the Wii makes Link look like an ultimate retard by running around with a naked blade in that absolutely rediculous pose. It looks like he's trying to count the leaves in the trees overhead, coming up with the number 'potato', and being entirely happy with that result.

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That's... not how the timeline worked.

When Link went back from the adult timeline, he went back FURTHER than Ganon's takeover to prevent it. The adult timeline continued on, either as normal or as if Link had stayed there, I don't remember which. The 'child timeline' is the one where Ganon never came to power and Link recovered Majora's Mask, the 'adult timeline' is the one where Ganon came to power and Link stopped him as we saw in Ocarina. Then there's a THIRD timeline where Link fails to defeat Ganon. That third one happens whether you travel through time and create a consistent loop or not. So yeah, it's PERFECTLY possibly to have more than one timeline.

Also, avoid using absolutes in an argument because if your opponent finds even a SINGLE instance where you're wrong, your entire idea falls apart.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

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That's... not how the timeline worked.

When Link went back from the adult timeline, he went back FURTHER than Ganon's takeover to prevent it. The adult timeline continued on, either as normal or as if Link had stayed there, I don't remember which. The 'child timeline' is the one where Ganon never came to power and Link recovered Majora's Mask, the 'adult timeline' is the one where Ganon came to power and Link stopped him as we saw in Ocarina. Then there's a THIRD timeline where Link fails to defeat Ganon. That third one happens whether you travel through time and create a consistent loop or not. So yeah, it's PERFECTLY possibly to have more than one timeline.

Also, avoid using absolutes in an argument because if your opponent finds even a SINGLE instance where you're wrong, your entire idea falls apart.

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Ummm... no. You defeat Ganon as an Adult. Meaning he got a couple of years to 'rule the roost' before he got defeated. There can be no alternate timelines because it is internally consistent. You can't prevent Ganon from taking over in the first place, ergo the 'cannon' child timeline is complete BS and cannot exist. Having an alternate timeline based on you failing to beat the game is just plain silly.

Majora's Mask *MUST* come after OoT because it the entire plot revolves around a friendship forged in OoT. So if Ganon had been prevented before he took power, MM could not exist because Link could never have met him.

So no, it's really not.

[LaZodiac]

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Ummm... no. You defeat Ganon as an Adult. Meaning he got a couple of years to 'rule the roost' before he got defeated. There can be no alternate timelines because it is internally consistent. You can't prevent Ganon from taking over in the first place, ergo the 'cannon' child timeline is complete BS and cannot exist. Having an alternate timeline based on you failing to beat the game is just plain silly.

Majora's Mask *MUST* come after OoT because it the entire plot revolves around a friendship forged in OoT. So if Ganon had been prevented before he took power, MM could not exist because Link could never have met him.

So no, it's really not.

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In the Zelda universe it is possible to create divergent timelines. If you must make me explain it I will.

They do, in fact, prevent Ganondorf's taking over Hyrule when Link goes back in time. When he goes back, he goes back and reseals the chamber, preventing Ganon from getting in and getting the Triforce. He meets Zelda and they warn the King and stuff happens that sets up for Twilight Princess, and that leads to the Child timeline where after this, Link goes to find Navi (because even though he's gone back in time he still remembers those things that happened.)

Meanwhile, in that alternate timeline where Ganon did get into the chamber, the world goes on.

Anyway, spoiler talk aside, I have some news! Tomorrow and Monday's videos are gonna be (I think) a little shorter then normal. Lotta stuff going on that makes it a bit more difficult to record then I'd like. So just keep that in mind!