Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated

[Pluto!]

Long-distance is a totally reasonable expectation with online dating, but that's not even my point. It's just frustrating to always see everything always be about sex. There's more to dating than sex. Even for allo people.

What exactly makes un-sexed dating dating, rather than just hanging out?

Could I be sex-less dating folks I'm getting to know or spend time with without even knowing it?

[Coidzor]

What exactly makes un-sexed dating dating, rather than just hanging out?

Could I be sex-less dating folks I'm getting to know or spend time with without even knowing it?

No. Romance is not purely trying to get into someone's pants or regularly ****ing them.

[Red Rubber Band]

No. Romance is not purely trying to get into someone's pants or regularly ****ing them.

He seems to be asking what dating is. Not what it is not. Whether he is serious is not, yet, for me to judge.

Pluto: For me, dating someone is a commitment to them both physically and emotionally. We'll set down some rules that we both agree on, a definition of what our relationship means.* As I'm someone who will only date one person at a time, the tie with myself and the other person is like no other I have. I hold them above others, and amongst the most special people in my life.

*This can all happen organically, not necessarily by us sitting down and writing out rules and caveats

[lio45]

It's a continuum all the way from a full relationship (emotional and physical), to someone you happen to know and don't particularly care for.

Very good close friends are somewhere between the two on that spectrum.

So, well, everyone can decide where to set their own threshold for where they personally consider that a given bond with another being ceases to be a "relationship". To me, there's a big difference between my closest friends and my (one and only at any given time) mate / "significant other". That doesn't mean that the former weren't actually more precious to me than the latter; for some of my past relationships, they were. I know what "a relationship" in my own lexicon means; friendship is, to me, a different thing -- it can actually be a stronger bond, but it's nonetheless very different.

[SilentNight]

I've already had time to process this and am more just curious if anyone else has been in this situation. So back in February my little sister calls me to tell me she's dating my best friend from high school (they go to university together). Four months later they're still together, very happy, I'd honestly be perfectly happy with them getting married if they weren't so young (18 for my sister, 22 for my friend, the gap doesn't bother me as she's more emotionally mature than I and they're both great people).

Anyone else had a similar experience? What was your reaction?

[Pluto!]

No. Romance is not purely trying to get into someone's pants or regularly ****ing them.

You have a bad habit of dismissively misrepresenting posts you don't like. It makes it hard to take your input seriously.

Anyway, Romance can be about as many things as you like, but that does not pertain to "dating" having sexual connotations (or denotations, for that matter).

I go out with people I want to get to know. I also go out with people who I want to get to know who I want to sleep with. The locations involved aren't usually different, nor are the activities, if we ignore the parts stemming from sexuality.

[Glass Mouse]

Could I be sex-less dating folks I'm getting to know or spend time with without even knowing it?

No. And I hope you're not sex-inclusively dating folks without clarifying things along the way, either.

All relationships have some degree of communication and negotiation. For allo people, sex is a pretty convenient stepping stone; something that we have societally deemed "a point at which a relationship probably changes". But you won't see many allo people hang out, have a night of wild monkey times, and then magically be in a relationship. I mean, it's a reasonable assumption that sex = "we like each other", but you're in for a world of hurt if you don't have the "so, where are we standing?" conversation around sexytimes. Or, a little less urgently, after drunken make-outs, or after several weeks of movies-and-cuddling, or after the first dozen deep emotional conversations, or however else you do your courtships.

Most people know the difference between "I like having this person as my friend!" and "I want whirlwind romance with this person!", with or without sexual attraction. Most people are also able to suss out how close they are to people-of-attractively-appropriate-gender(s) and whether behaviours have turned coupley - at which point, see again; necessity of communication. The generally accepted romance trajectory has some nifty pointers but is by no means bulletproof.

I do think that ace people (being the ones with the statistically less common relationship form) have the responsibility of communicating clearly. Especially if they are the easily-mistaken-for-platonic type. Just like I, as a bi girl, would have the responsibility of communication should I find myself in a deep, life-partner friendship with a straight girl which I felt as deeply romantic. "Hey friend, I know your (reasonable) assumption here is X, but I'd kinda like us to be Y, and here's what that means to me" is probably in the ballpark of how that should go.

Doesn't mean that my hypothetical straight girl couldn't surprise me. But it means that of course there'd be no actual relationship until we have agreed on one. Just like every other relationship type.

[Kalmageddon]

I'm in this weird spot right now where I'm not dating, barely see my "friends with benefits" and even when I meet a girl I find attractive I can't really bring myself to do anything about it because I can immediately see that they don't have much in common with me. But at the same time, I really want to find someone. Someone to have a relationship with, maybe not permanent, maybe not exclusive but...
I would really like to find a girl that shares my hobbies, my view of relationship and sexuality and I'm feeling unable to settle for anything less. Which considering that this means finding an intelligent geek girl that has a weird sense of humor, a healthy view of sex and penty of kinks, that leaves me with very little hope...

It's not even that I have a lot of expectations concerning the kind of relationship... I'm pretty much open to all kinds of experiences. I would like to put myself on the line, to meet people, but at the same time, when I see that a girl has nothing in common with me I lose interest incredibly fast.
Right now, I feel secure, I'm not at my peak phisical condition but it seems I'm fairly attractive, I have a good job, quite a lot of experience, if that matters at all, and I would just like to say "Here I am, how about we get to know eachother, without any expectations?".

I honestly have no idea where to look. Dating sites? What other alternatives are there for someone with very little time? I don't know where to start...

[hawkboy772042]

I got invited to my friend's wedding and am wondering if I should go since we did sleep together once.

[Ceaon]

An invitation is an invitation. You're allowed to be, or even wanted at the wedding; the question would be if you feel comfortable going.

[Red Rubber Band]

I've already had time to process this and am more just curious if anyone else has been in this situation. So back in February my little sister calls me to tell me she's dating my best friend from high school (they go to university together). Four months later they're still together, very happy, I'd honestly be perfectly happy with them getting married if they weren't so young (18 for my sister, 22 for my friend, the gap doesn't bother me as she's more emotionally mature than I and they're both great people).

Anyone else had a similar experience? What was your reaction?

Not quite in the same boat, but the closest experience I can think of is my mother recently started dating someone several years younger than me. It was a bit weird at first, and while I haven't met him yet so can't say for sure, but I am slightly surprised by how easy it was for me to accept it even though I believe I'm an open minded person. It has been nearly a decade since she has been "officially" dating someone so just the fact that she is "in the game" again is strange. But adding the age difference, when all her other partners have been her age, and I expected to be a little bit weirded out by it.

I'm in this weird spot right now where I'm not dating, barely see my "friends with benefits" and even when I meet a girl I find attractive I can't really bring myself to do anything about it because I can immediately see that they don't have much in common with me. But at the same time, I really want to find someone. Someone to have a relationship with, maybe not permanent, maybe not exclusive but...
I would really like to find a girl that shares my hobbies, my view of relationship and sexuality and I'm feeling unable to settle for anything less. Which considering that this means finding an intelligent geek girl that has a weird sense of humor, a healthy view of sex and penty of kinks, that leaves me with very little hope...

It's not even that I have a lot of expectations concerning the kind of relationship... I'm pretty much open to all kinds of experiences. I would like to put myself on the line, to meet people, but at the same time, when I see that a girl has nothing in common with me I lose interest incredibly fast.
Right now, I feel secure, I'm not at my peak phisical condition but it seems I'm fairly attractive, I have a good job, quite a lot of experience, if that matters at all, and I would just like to say "Here I am, how about we get to know eachother, without any expectations?".

I honestly have no idea where to look. Dating sites? What other alternatives are there for someone with very little time? I don't know where to start...

I went through a couple of phases like that a some years back. So I went out and joined new clubs and went on trips for new experiences. Started dancing, went overseas on a group tour (your financial ability to do the last may vary)... and after a few years I ended up meeting someone (several someones, but I always knew the others weren't a sure thing, just fun). We share pretty much zero hobby interests, but with her that doesn't matter. She's content doing her thing, I'm content doing mine. This has been made easier by it being long distance though

[Xapi]

I'm in this weird spot right now where I'm not dating, barely see my "friends with benefits" and even when I meet a girl I find attractive I can't really bring myself to do anything about it because I can immediately see that they don't have much in common with me. But at the same time, I really want to find someone. Someone to have a relationship with, maybe not permanent, maybe not exclusive but...
I would really like to find a girl that shares my hobbies, my view of relationship and sexuality and I'm feeling unable to settle for anything less. Which considering that this means finding an intelligent geek girl that has a weird sense of humor, a healthy view of sex and penty of kinks, that leaves me with very little hope...

It's not even that I have a lot of expectations concerning the kind of relationship... I'm pretty much open to all kinds of experiences. I would like to put myself on the line, to meet people, but at the same time, when I see that a girl has nothing in common with me I lose interest incredibly fast.
Right now, I feel secure, I'm not at my peak phisical condition but it seems I'm fairly attractive, I have a good job, quite a lot of experience, if that matters at all, and I would just like to say "Here I am, how about we get to know eachother, without any expectations?".

I honestly have no idea where to look. Dating sites? What other alternatives are there for someone with very little time? I don't know where to start...

I think, if your SO being interested in what you are interested is a must for you, then you should probably be better off attending public events related to whatever your interests are, since cherry picking in general dating sites for people with given interests is probably quite hard given the response rates of those sites (specially for a male looking for a female).

OTOH, I want to say that you can be perfectly happy in a relationship with someone who considers your hobbies kinda weird, as long as they respect them and you. Actually, having a place to do your stuff without your SO being an active part of it is many times a plus in a relationship. I've been with my wife for 13 years now and I don't feel like I'm too severly restricting my hobby or my time with her.

This isn't to say I don't have problems in the relationship, as this very thread can attest to :P

[SilentNight]

I'm in this weird spot right now where I'm not dating, barely see my "friends with benefits" and even when I meet a girl I find attractive I can't really bring myself to do anything about it because I can immediately see that they don't have much in common with me. But at the same time, I really want to find someone. Someone to have a relationship with, maybe not permanent, maybe not exclusive but...
I would really like to find a girl that shares my hobbies, my view of relationship and sexuality and I'm feeling unable to settle for anything less. Which considering that this means finding an intelligent geek girl that has a weird sense of humor, a healthy view of sex and penty of kinks, that leaves me with very little hope...

It's not even that I have a lot of expectations concerning the kind of relationship... I'm pretty much open to all kinds of experiences. I would like to put myself on the line, to meet people, but at the same time, when I see that a girl has nothing in common with me I lose interest incredibly fast.
Right now, I feel secure, I'm not at my peak phisical condition but it seems I'm fairly attractive, I have a good job, quite a lot of experience, if that matters at all, and I would just like to say "Here I am, how about we get to know eachother, without any expectations?".

I honestly have no idea where to look. Dating sites? What other alternatives are there for someone with very little time? I don't know where to start...

I’m in a somewhat similar situation, I’m feeling ready for something more deep and committed with someone I genuinely love. Unfortunately, my life won’t permit anything non long-distance (which is kind of a killer for me), so I had kind of given up looking and started to focus more on work/school/me. Lo and behold, on July 4th I meet an absolutely amazing French girl who I click super hard with. It wasn’t even a matter of shared tastes and values (they do exist, but we didn’t have a lot of time to get to know each other). She’s unfortunately leaving back to France at the end of the month so I've gone back to not focusing much on girls, but what I took away from the encounter was that wonderful people do indeed exist and you can find them. As to finding them in your situation, I would recommend trying dating sites. I don’t have any experience with them, but I recently got Tindr and it’s been fairly good for genuinely meeting people and helping me reach the above conclusion, not too draining on time either. Also do you have any friends who like playing match-maker? You could let them know what you’re in the market for.
Hope that helps.

[noparlpf]

Sorry this is going to be kinda vague. But it's me, so this has nothing to do with dating or romantic relationships. Just going to make that much clear. Anyway.

Why can't people just clearly say how they feel? This includes me, but like, I shouldn't have to ask somebody if my vague suspicions are right. It's especially bothersome because I'm not terrific at reading emotional responses (I did have an Asperger's diagnosis once) so most of the time I just assume I'm being paranoid and misreading things unless somebody explicitly tells me what's up.

Should I ask, then? If I'm wrong it might be embarrassing but if I'm right then I need to be able to talk it out and potentially change some things.

[Chen]

Uh ask them what?

[Glass Mouse]

Should I ask, then? If I'm wrong it might be embarrassing but if I'm right then I need to be able to talk it out and potentially change some things.

I'd go with yes. Most people can assume an "if they don't say anything, nothing's the matter" attitude, but that strategy breaks down if:

1. You have substantial empirical proof that you do not pick up on social cues generally deemed obvious. People do signal emotions with things other than words, and it is not unreasonable for neurotypical people to expect other neurotypical people to interpret it correctly, and to not have the tools necessary to communicate efficiently with people of atypical communication styles.
2. Not knowing causes you significant anxiety or distress. Most relationships can survive a "hey, this thing happened, and I'm not sure if we interpret it in the same way" conversation, and a little awkwardness is worth avoiding pain.

But yeah, it would be easier to give advice if we knew what the topic in question is.

[Ceaon]

Sorry this is going to be kinda vague. But it's me, so this has nothing to do with dating or romantic relationships. Just going to make that much clear. Anyway.

Why can't people just clearly say how they feel? This includes me, but like, I shouldn't have to ask somebody if my vague suspicions are right. It's especially bothersome because I'm not terrific at reading emotional responses (I did have an Asperger's diagnosis once) so most of the time I just assume I'm being paranoid and misreading things unless somebody explicitly tells me what's up.

Should I ask, then? If I'm wrong it might be embarrassing but if I'm right then I need to be able to talk it out and potentially change some things.

Being honest and open all the time with everyone makes one feel vulnerable and may cause a lot of discussion and conflict. Those things take energy and may hurt feelings, so people sometimes muddle issues to avoid confrontation. Some people do not do this enough, some people do this too much, and what constitutes enough differs between people.

[noparlpf]

Uh ask them what?

About the thing that I think might be bothering them. I did say "vague."

I'd go with yes. Most people can assume an "if they don't say anything, nothing's the matter" attitude, but that strategy breaks down if:

1. You have substantial empirical proof that you do not pick up on social cues generally deemed obvious. People do signal emotions with things other than words, and it is not unreasonable for neurotypical people to expect other neurotypical people to interpret it correctly, and to not have the tools necessary to communicate efficiently with people of atypical communication styles.
2. Not knowing causes you significant anxiety or distress. Most relationships can survive a "hey, this thing happened, and I'm not sure if we interpret it in the same way" conversation, and a little awkwardness is worth avoiding pain.

Yeah, I probably ought to...but it's hard...

But yeah, it would be easier to give advice if we knew what the topic in question is.

Is it ironic to complain about people not being open about their feelings in a post in which I reveal almost nothing?

[lio45]

Sorry this is going to be kinda vague. But it's me, so this has nothing to do with dating or romantic relationships. Just going to make that much clear. Anyway.

Why can't people just clearly say how they feel? This includes me, but like, I shouldn't have to ask somebody if my vague suspicions are right. It's especially bothersome because I'm not terrific at reading emotional responses (I did have an Asperger's diagnosis once) so most of the time I just assume I'm being paranoid and misreading things unless somebody explicitly tells me what's up.

Should I ask, then? If I'm wrong it might be embarrassing but if I'm right then I need to be able to talk it out and potentially change some things.

Personally, I share everything with my significant other, and we have a policy of "if there's something, you say it", "don't assume I can read your mind", and "if there's something bothering you and you're not saying anything to me about it, then that something is deemed irrelevant and you give up the right to be pissed at me about it".

So, I'm of the school of thought that more flow of info both ways is better than not enough.

Since you're really vague, I will say: if you're talking about friends/family seeming pissed off, or cold, or angry, about something but you can't read them well enough to know for sure what they think, and you're sure that they haven't told you anything beyond maybe subtle hints that you've missed, then yes, it's okay to ask "what's the matter, is something wrong?"

That would apply generally, but in your case, it's even more okay because I'm assuming that close friends and family are aware already that you're somewhat autistic. So, they'll certainly give you a break on all these "decoding of the others' unexpressed sentiments" cases.

[Coidzor]

Is it ironic to complain about people not being open about their feelings in a post in which I reveal almost nothing?

It does rather demonstrate part of the general issue humans have with the process, yeah.

You should generally be good to touch base and see if you're on the same page or if you need to talk about something, though.

[Spanish_Paladin]

Oh my God!!, i just have a skype conversation with a girl i meet in Okcupid and was an epic fail, my shyness and my terrible english destroyed any option i could have. Perhaps i should limit my range to the frontiers of my country

[Coidzor]

Oh my God!!, i just have a skype conversation with a girl i meet in Okcupid and was an epic fail, my shyness and my terrible english destroyed any option i could have.

So what exactly did you do? Just clam up on her?

Perhaps i should limit my range to the frontiers of my country

Probably, but not just due to skype-related difficulties.

[noparlpf]

Unrelated: can somebody please explain "#don't read this" blog posts? I just figured this thread would be a reasonable place to ask what with the explanations of human behavior and whatnot.

[Coidzor]

Unrelated: can somebody please explain "#don't read this" blog posts? I just figured this thread would be a reasonable place to ask what with the explanations of human behavior and whatnot.

People are being tongue in cheek?

People forgot that private journals exist?

Reverse psychology?

[lio45]

Oh my God!!, i just have a skype conversation with a girl i meet in Okcupid and was an epic fail, my shyness and my terrible english destroyed any option i could have. Perhaps i should limit my range to the frontiers of my country

Hint: if you're self-admittedly "terrible" at the language that you two would NEED to use, all of the time, for interaction, expect that if you still decide to attempt a relationship in that language, it's going to be tougher for you.

Communication is pretty much essential in a relationship. And that kinda requires a common language.


But yeah, I think it's pretty good that you did it. You'll be less shy eventually... So, you genuinely believe that "your performance" would've been better if it all had taken place in Spanish instead, right? If so, think about it... :)

Congratulations for doing stuff though... that's the way to go!

[lio45]

One more thing, you say you tend to be shy, right? The best cure for that is to try to meet girls in person as early as possible in the chatting process. You'll probably find it easier to chat (through writing, not skyping) through the internet than to chat sitting in front of each other in a café somewhere, but the former won't really help get you used to the latter.

And it's also a good way to make sure you two have at least some mutual compatibility in person. You might connect really well online, then it sucks in person for whatever reason.

[Astrella]

Unrelated: can somebody please explain "#don't read this" blog posts? I just figured this thread would be a reasonable place to ask what with the explanations of human behavior and whatnot.

Well, usually I see them with an appendage "don't read this if you're not ...", but I imagine it's like, it helps you to write it down as a way of venting and your blog might be the first thing readily available?

[dehro]

One more thing, you say you tend to be shy, right? The best cure for that is to try to meet girls in person as early as possible in the chatting process. You'll probably find it easier to chat (through writing, not skyping) through the internet than to chat sitting in front of each other in a café somewhere, but the former won't really help get you used to the latter.

And it's also a good way to make sure you two have at least some mutual compatibility in person. You might connect really well online, then it sucks in person for whatever reason.

My experience is somewhat opposite, in that I defeat crippling shyness and footinmouthness by getting to know the woman as much as I can online before meeting... It removes embarrassment and creates enough familiarity with her to make me get over those hurdles... So I guess it depends on what works best for you.

[noparlpf]

Well, usually I see them with an appendage "don't read this if you're not ...", but I imagine it's like, it helps you to write it down as a way of venting and your blog might be the first thing readily available?

Personally I have Notepad and OpenOffice Writer pinned to my taskbar, so I just type into Notepad (opens faster) if I want to get something out quickly. Even if tumblr or whatever is already open, I just don't get why someone would click "publish" for personal venting online in a public space if they also don't want it read...

[rs2excelsior]

Well, after six months together, my girlfriend broke up with me last night. There wasn't a big fight or anything, and hopefully we can stay friends, but still. I'll probably be posting here looking for advice again when there's something other than a sucking black hole in my chest.

[/whine]