Why Ansom fights... a revisit of Erf 34

[happyturtle]

Now that we know that Ansom is in love with Jillian, and not just lust, I'm looking at 34 with new eyes.

• Vinnie asks why Ansom is even involved, saying that Stanley hasn't really done anything to Ansom's tribe.
  
• Mentions at the same time 'I don't know what he did to Zamussels'
  
• Suggests that when Ansom decided to act, he went from uninvolved to leading the coalition in a relatively short time.
  
• Ansom tries to brush off the question with talk about ending a 'great evil'
  
• Vinnie offers his own hypothesis about royalty.
  
• Ansom agrees that Stanley isn't royal, but doesn't confirm that that is his motivation.
  
• Vinnie manages to somewhat offend Ansom by suggesting that Ansom tends to use his royalty unfairly.
  
• The top hat interrupts the conversation.
  
• Ansom says what could be considered a prayer, or at least a plea as he gets the message.
  
• Ansom drops everything to go to Jillian's rescue

What if Ansom is only involved because of 'what he did to Zamussels'? Or even what she (Wanda) did to Zamussels? Maybe all the talk about royalty is just to keep Vinnie from guessing that he's just following Jillian around like a loyal puppy trying to both protect her and gain her attention?

[Erk]

I still think Vinnie hit the nail on the head with the Royalty thing. It seems to have struck a nerve far too easily with Ansom. At this point we don't know if there was romance between Ansom and Jillian before the Alliance... judging from page 9/10 it seems to be a fairly recent thing, a bond formed from working together in this war. I don't think he would have loved her enough to put together a huge army for her before this.

[Glome]

I don't think this is an either/or situation. I think Ansom is bigotted against non-nobility not knowing there place and is also in love with Jillian. In fact I suspect that Ansom only knows Jillian because of the war, and that their acquaintance doesn't extend to before Ansom decided to attack Stanley. If Vinnie was really wrong about presumptions, Ansom would still have been able to counter his charges, and I don't think he would have willing led Vinnie on in the manner he did even if he was covering up for being in love with Jillian.

[SteveMB]

What if Ansom is only involved because of 'what he did to Zamussels'? Or even what she (Wanda) did to Zamussels? Maybe all the talk about royalty is just to keep Vinnie from guessing that he's just following Jillian around like a loyal puppy trying to both protect her and gain her attention?

If Ansom is fighting (at least in part) on behalf of Jillian, I don't think Wanda's mind-manipulation enters into it. I doubt that Ansom knows about that -- if he did, he'd be an idiot (OK, maybe some of you think he is an idiot... but that big an idiot?) to tell Jillian his plans.

We don't know (yet?), but I'd guess that Jillian claims, for Ansom's benefit, to have resisted all attempts to interrogate her (which would explain why he still trusts her with important information despite her history of getting captured). Perhaps she actually believes that to be true after Wanda is done with her. Or -- I'm starting to lean toward this version as fitting the "emotional/perceptual manipulation, not hard mind-control" model -- perhaps in her current mental state she rationalizes (as a way of coping with and recovering from her post-interrogation, post-chummy-chat breakdown, which I think is connected to the realization that she's just sold out her allies) that it's kinda sorta OK to have told her good friend Wanda a few little things that technically she should have kept secret.... Of course, Ansom probably wouldn't see it that way, so it's best he doesn't know....

Edit: On the other hand, Ansom may be aware that Wanda (or "Stanley's people" generically) have tortured Jillian -- even if she doesn't talk about that, he might know or assume that that's what happens when officers with valuable information get taken prisoner (either in general, or by the evil ignobly-ruled "Lord" Stanley regime in particular). That could be sufficient to drive him to fight Stanley on Jillian's behalf.

At this point we don't know if there was romance between Ansom and Jillian before the Alliance... judging from page 9/10 it seems to be a fairly recent thing, a bond formed from working together in this war. I don't think he would have loved her enough to put together a huge army for her before this.

It's difficult to form any conclusions about this without any good chronology of Stanley's provocations and the forming of an anti-Stanley alliance in response thereto -- we don't know how early Jillian or Ansom was involved in fighting against Stanley, or which one was there first. That said, I'd also guess that Ansom's attraction to Jillian arose after meeting her during the current conflict.

[happyturtle]

Perhaps he's fighting to get Jillian back her throne, which would fit the royalty motivation as well as his attachment to Jillian.

[SteveMB]

Perhaps he's fighting to get Jillian back her throne, which would fit the royalty motivation as well as his attachment to Jillian.

I doubt that Ansom knows that Jillian is royal; she clearly wants to keep it secret (presumably Wanda knows because it came out in interrogation).

In a way, it's a pity I can't buy this idea... if the notion that Wanda hopes to install Jillian as a figurehead queen is correct, it would mean that our good old dashing hero Ansom is actually fighting to achieve Wanda's goal, which would be such a neat trick for her to have pulled off....

[Tividar's Thorn]

Just a thought concerning Jillian, what if she was royalty from Zamussels's line? That would give merit to both sides of the argument, Ansom (i.e. Handsome) is going to stop Stanley for Zamussels, and also for Jillian, if he knows that she is related?

[SteveMB]

Just a thought concerning Jillian, what if she was royalty from Zamussels's line?

I'm not sure what you're getting at. "Zamussels" must be a personal name, not a tribe one, given that Jillian "claims no tribe".

[Friv]

Looking over it, I notice three things about Ansom's conversation with Vinnie:

1) Ansom is in love with Jillian.
2) Ansom probably doesn't know that Jillian is a noble.
3) Ansom reacts badly when Vinnie suggests he dislikes non-nobles.

Maybe Ansom reacted like that because he's in love with Jillian, and doesn't want to think that he's prejudiced against her?

[SteveMB]

Looking over it, I notice three things about Ansom's conversation with Vinnie:

1) Ansom is in love with Jillian.
2) Ansom probably doesn't know that Jillian is a noble.
3) Ansom reacts badly when Vinnie suggests he dislikes non-nobles.

Maybe Ansom reacted like that because he's in love with Jillian, and doesn't want to think that he's prejudiced against her?

I don't think it's a matter of Ansom being "prejudiced" against commoners in the usual sense of the word -- he just thinks that it's wrong (because it violates social norms) for them to be heads of state.

That said, if Jillian's (as far as Ansom knows) commoner status is an obstacle to his forming any relationship beyond casual liaisons (assuming that he could overcome her lack of interest -- again, as far as he knows -- in either casual liaisons or something more), then Vinnie's comments might have hit a sore spot simply because it focused attention on the commoner/noble distinction that stands between him and Jillian. (Indeed, part of his antipathy toward Stanley might be that his coup has also forced him to focus his attention on that issue, to the point of fighting to protect the very custom that stands in the way of his heart's desire.)