El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

[Rater202]

It's explictly stated that Not-Tengu was just an ordinary jerk until he stumbled across a way that's guaranteed to give anyone magical powers. That's why Magic being widespread is bad, because if that's what an ordinary jerk turns into, what would happen to an out and out psychopath?

I mean, the spells you get are spells that fit you. Somebody who lies hurting people are gonna get hurty spells, and it's stated that Elliot getting a fighty spell(Superhero) is a freak occurrence. Greg shut down his Dojo specially because he doen'st want to accidentally give a sociopath atomic breath or something. That's a valid concern in this setting.

It's also explicit that Magic itself doen'st want to be widespread, and will change it's rules for how it manifests in humans if it becomes too widespread.

As for Logic and Sanity, well, there's this old joke

A man is driving down a road when he gets a flat tire. Gets out to change it, and when he's got it off he accidentally drops the tire off and loses the nuts needed to hold it on, all four of him.

As he gets up and starts cussing at his misfortune, he notices that he stopped right in front of a mental hospital and one of the patients is on the other side of the fence looking at him.

"What seems to be the problem, kind sir?"
"I just lost all four nuts, and I don't have any more. I can't put my spare tire on."
"Do all of them have four nuts?"
"Yeah. Why?"
"Well, if you take one nut from the other four tire, then you can have four tires with three nuts and that should be enough to get you home."
"That's a great idea. Thanks!"

So the man does it and soon he's ready to go, before he turns around to thank the patient again.

"Thanks again. You know, I'm a bit surprised that a mental patient would think of something like this."
"Dude, I'm crazy, not stupid."

[halfeye]

Which of these two is the blockage on magic flowing normally through Moperville?

[Forum Explorer]

It's explictly stated that Not-Tengu was just an ordinary jerk until he stumbled across a way that's guaranteed to give anyone magical powers. That's why Magic being widespread is bad, because if that's what an ordinary jerk turns into, what would happen to an out and out psychopath?

I mean, the spells you get are spells that fit you. Somebody who lies hurting people are gonna get hurty spells, and it's stated that Elliot getting a fighty spell(Superhero) is a freak occurrence. Greg shut down his Dojo specially because he doen'st want to accidentally give a sociopath atomic breath or something. That's a valid concern in this setting.

It's also explicit that Magic itself doen'st want to be widespread, and will change it's rules for how it manifests in humans if it becomes too widespread.

Yeah, that's the logic. But part of the reason he acted that way is because he was a big fish in a small pond. He gained power, and didn't think that there was anyone that could stop him. It's like owning the only tank in the world, as far as you know anyways.

I mean, what do most people want out of life? It's safety and comfort. IE, they don't want to be hurt, and they want to live a nice life. So I imagine the most common spells would be either protection spells, or utility stuff like finding lost objects, summoning food, or transforming themselves.

Another way to think of it is that what do we have more of? Crooks or cops/military/doctors/charity workers?

It's why we can have society at all rather then be a bunch of Mad Max style savages where might makes right.

As for magic, well we don't know what the rule changing could mean. If it means that very few people can use magic, then Tedd's dad's fears are still unwarranted because the problem is self correcting before it even happens.

[Lizard Lord]

The main problem I found (besides magic changing the rules) would be with angst induced awakenings. Magic being wide spread wouldn't mean everyone would get spells, but they would all get magic build up. They just something to trigger an awakening before they can get spells.

But with traumatizing events being a potential trigger for suddenly getting your own magic powers, well its the sort of thing that could turn anyone into a monster when they might have otherwise learned to cope with the traumatic event over time (at the very least it seems like it would likely lead to a roaring rampage of revenge.)

[Vinyadan]

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So I guess that Tedd is the rare case. I also guess that magic from Griffinland is falling into Moperville, or was that explained? Also, it's funny to see a character who knows things and wants to do stuff. It took just nine years IRT.

[Rater202]

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So, Did Pandora just agree to stop with her plan to give random people magical powers for her own amusement for the greater good?

Ohh. Sirlek is going after Raven becuase of the White Jackass's manipulations. Sirlek, being an Aberration and one of the worst kinds, is most likely to do so through methods that are liekly to result in... casualties.

Pandora is very protective of her family, which at this point includes Raven, Tedd, and Grace. It's highly unliekly that the main cast won't be involved, since Sirlek is helping Magis with his plan involving the Dunkles and the Diamond, and judging from the thing that's gonna come into play now too.

Maybe, maybe Pandora, restricted by the "guiding and empowering" rules and being unable to protect her family directly, will just flat out say what's going on to people in the main cast? She's demonstrated a willingness to come out and say things directly when it serves her purposes.

[Douglas]

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I just checked, the magic whale's exact wording was that Tedd is "not a spellcaster". I think that all but completely confirms that Tedd is the rare type of wizard mentioned here.

Magic changing the rules would cause a huge amount of chaos and extreme unpredictability, which would normally be very appealing to Pandora. I think she's doing a 180 on her plans here because she realizes that a rules change would leave Raven no longer able to use magic, and thus vulnerable, and that she would have no better idea than anyone else of how to teach him the new rules because no one would know the new rules for a while. A very frustrating development indeed for her.

[Landis963]

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I just checked, the magic whale's exact wording was that Tedd is "not a spellcaster". I think that all but completely confirms that Tedd is the rare type of wizard mentioned here.

Magic changing the rules would cause a huge amount of chaos and extreme unpredictability, which would normally be very appealing to Pandora. I think she's doing a 180 on her plans here because she realizes that a rules change would leave Raven no longer able to use magic, and thus vulnerable, and that she would have no better idea than anyone else of how to teach him the new rules because no one would know the new rules for a while. A very frustrating development indeed for her.

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Also, 'twould defeat the purpose of revealing magic in the first place: to make "a world where [Raven's] restraints mean nothing, and [he] can do as [he] please[s]." To wit, these restraints include career limitations, including "Forbidden to serve in any military", which (from the same link) Raven considers shameful. Also, Abraham (previous page) seems to be laboring under the impression that Raven can't do more than guide and empower ("You can't fight me! Not directly!"), but Abraham is also an idiot.

[Lord Raziere]

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Hm.

Yes, her current plan does not benefit her goals. Therefore she is stopping it, and is probably going to come up with a new one.

Thing is if Magic has a mind, that means Magic can be tricked. I doubt Dan would introduce her and show us her motives just to have them foiled so easily and have her not be a problem anymore. No, I think Pandora, knowing that magic is intelligent enough to change its own rules, will want to engineer a scenario where magic will be tricked into revealing itself somehow. She seems like the type try that sort of shenanigans.

Edit: OR try to exploit Tedd's non-spellcaster status to shenanigans up a kind of magic that Magic itself cannot touch. either or.

[Egneil]

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To me it seems like magic's plan to prevent a system change was to get Pandora's attention and have a little talk.

[eschmenk]

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Also, 'twould defeat the purpose of revealing magic in the first place: to make "a world where [Raven's] restraints mean nothing, and [he] can do as [he] please[s]." To wit, these restraints include career limitations, including "Forbidden to serve in any military", which (from the same link) Raven considers shameful. Also, Abraham (previous page) seems to be laboring under the impression that Raven can't do more than guide and empower ("You can't fight me! Not directly!"), but Abraham is also an idiot.

Yeah, it's hard to believe that Pandora is telling the truth given that. It sounds as if a magic reset is exactly what she wanted, assuming Raven wouldn't loose his powers.

[Rater202]

Yeah, it's hard to believe that Pandora is telling the truth given that. It sounds as if a magic reset is exactly what she wanted, assuming Raven wouldn't loose his powers.

It's actualy the opposite.

Part of Pandora's goal is creating a world that Adrian can fully participate in.

Adrian can only fully participate when magic is involved or lives are in danger, per his own words.

If her plan to to spread knowledge of and ability to use magic as far as possible, then eventually every situation would involve magic... But if no one has magic, then magic won't be involved in any situation, and Adrian will have less ways he can participate in society.

[Forum Explorer]

On that note, I don't think Pandora is going to give up. Sure, she can't create a world where magic is fully visible, but she might be able to create a world with 'superhumans'. Though that is much much harder.

[Yuki Akuma]

Obviously Pandora just needs to create a world where lives are constantly in danger, so Adrian can intervene whenever he wants!

[Rater202]

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Emissary specifically says that there's a rare kind of Wizard that doesn't get spells in the first place.

If we assume that he's talking about Tedd's more Dangerous Rarity... Well, Tedd's wrong here, isn't he?

[Silva Stormrage]

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Emissary specifically says that there's a rare kind of Wizard that doesn't get spells in the first place.

If we assume that he's talking about Tedd's more Dangerous Rarity... Well, Tedd's wrong here, isn't he?

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Yep, though you can't blame him too much as Tedd's definition of a wizard is "one who can learn other people's spells" which he can't do

[Lizard Lord]

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Yep, though you can't blame him too much as Tedd's definition of a wizard is "one who can learn other people's spells" which he can't do

That's not entirely true. He can learn them with superhuman ease. He can learn all about them including things the original spellcaster may not have known, or maybe could not have known. He just can't actually cast them.

In fact I think the real reason that there is this type of wizard that doesn't change when the rules of magic do is so there is someone that can learn and teach the new rules to those that CAN make use of them.


Edited in to say its NOT entirely true.

[Rater202]

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Yep, though you can't blame him too much as Tedd's definition of a wizard is "one who can learn other people's spells" which he can't do

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Except he can totally learn other People's spells. He just can't cast them. Even that's iffy, because he's shown himself to be very adept with the creation of magical implements and technology that bestows enchantments. I bet you if somebody took the time to teach Tedd how to make wands and staves he could make wands and staves for most spells he's seen.

Hell, we have no clue how the Mark Pandora's given him will interact with his native magic. For all we know, he might be able to copy gender change spells already and cast them with his mark given sufficient energy(just like how Dex was able to cast a summon fire guy spell when turbocharged by Pandora when he only had a fairy avatar spell beforehand, and well... Plenty of magic in the air around Mopperville and he does have that gauntlet.) Or alternatively if he casts his girl spell the right number of times per day, he might start developing magical reserves higher than "bare minimum" and potentially awaken as some kind of Super Wizard...

I mean, Lord Tedd didn't take over a reality with just spell analysis and a TF Gun

[Douglas]

I think that's enough spoiler posts, anyone who reads past them without checking the new comic, it's their own fault.

Or alternatively if he casts his girl spell the right number of times per day, he might start developing magical reserves higher than "bare minimum" and potentially awaken as some kind of Super Wizard...

I mean, Lord Tedd didn't take over a reality with just spell analysis and a TF Gun

That's essentially my hypothesis. Most people use magic by way of prepackaged spells that do specific things. Some of these spells are versatile, but they still have specific defined effects and limits. If you don't have a spell for it, you can't do it with magic. Normal wizards can partially bypass this limitation by copying other people's spells, potentially building an enormous repertoire that has something for most situations they might reasonably encounter, but still has pre-defined capabilities.

I speculate that Tedd, if only he had enough magic energy for it, could use magic without this limitation entirely. He has a more low level direct connection to magic, and would achieve spell-like effects by metaphorically telling magic what he wants, and magic would do whatever arbitrary thing it is provided only that Tedd can supply enough energy. Tedd might need to study and experiment to learn magic's language, so to speak, but could do anything he has the magical vocabulary to describe and the energy to power it. If Tedd encounters something he's not prepared for, he can simply invent a new spell-equivalent on the spot, where a normal wizard would be stuck using tools that don't fit.

To put it another way: A normal wizard learns Fireball. Tedd learns the English language and writes Tedd's Custom Burn These Specific Bad Guys.

[Vinyadan]

I mean, Lord Tedd didn't take over a reality with just spell analysis and a TF Gun

I guess that depends on what he turned himself into...

[Rater202]

You know, if Emissary was talking about Tedd's thing, I did call one of our main 8 being revealed as a Wizard happening specifically because just normal awakened isn't major enough anymore now that over half are awakened(Nanase, Elliot, Ellen, Susan, Justin,)

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Tedd is going to get a very good look at Elliot casting his Cheerleadra spell and being Cheerleadra. Tedd will then later on use his Gauntlet to flood his system with magic, and then using his "gender change" mark and his analysis of the spell to transform into a Super-heroine himself.

He will still deny that he's a wizard until someone, Emissary or Pandora, flat out says that yes, he's some kind of Wizard.

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Tedd used to be very very perverted(He's still Pervy, but nowhere near as much.)

Edward basically think that Tedd's frequent Gender bending is some pervy thing. He'll be totally accepting if/when he finds out that Tedd's doing it because of gender fluidity. Because damn it, Tedd needs at least one fully supportive parent.

[Randomguy]

So I recently started playing MTG, so I reread Squirrel Prophet part 2 to see if the card tournament parts where less out of place if you understood the game / reading archivally instead of waiting for new chapters. Sadly, they still seem crammed in there.

Also, WOW it's been 2 years and only like one day has passed in comic. Still not approaching Homestuck, though. I really need to finish reading Homestuck.

[Vinyadan]

NP Pandora, that's a horrible thought. You'd get more bio directive, only into an unusual direction.

[Rater202]

What are the chances that Tedd's freaky more dangerous rarity powers/possible ultra rare wizardry will get out, at least in the supernatural community, and Noriko will come back into the picture specifically for that reason(since she left because she thought he had no powers...)

Or she comes back into the picture because of the increasingly high number of monster attacks in Mopperville. Monster hunter after all.

Completely honest, I just want to see Tedd's friends chew her out.

[Vinyadan]

It takes a 200 years old crazed immortal to use subjunctive right! Go, Pandora! You have my vote!

[halfeye]

It takes a 200 years old crazed immortal to use subjunctive right! Go, Pandora! You have my vote!

Two hunerd? If you think Pandora is only 200 years ole, your crazee.

[eschmenk]

Part of Pandora's goal is creating a world that Adrian can fully participate in.

Adrian can only fully participate when magic is involved or lives are in danger, per his own words.

That made a lot of sense, but Pandora didn't mention that reasoning in the latest update and gave a reason that didn't really make sense. (People could worry still about mundane weapons even if there weren't any magic being used. *subjunctive case*) Is she protecting Adrian's identity? She talked openly of Tedd and Grace, though.

[Rater202]

That made a lot of sense, but Pandora didn't mention that reasoning in the latest update and gave a reason that didn't really make sense. (People could worry still about mundane weapons even if there weren't any magic being used. *subjunctive case*) Is she protecting Adrian's identity? She talked openly of Tedd and Grace, though.

1: The Emissary knows about Tedd and Grace while he's in Grace's dreams. He does not nessesarily know about Raven.

2: At the end of Sister Part 2, Pandora flat outs states that her end goal is a world where Adrian's restraints will mean nothing.

3: Pandora is insane. she can easily have more than one reason and only mention the one. She did't mention the "I'm bored" either.

Pandora's logic is "people are worried about magic getting out because magic is a scary and dangerous weapon. Solution, give every one magic including spells to protect themselves from dangerous magic, thus removing dangerous magic as a thing to be worried about."

given her insanity, whether that logic is sound is a matter for debate.

[Sylian]

Which alignment is Pandora Chaos Raven? Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil? Her intentions do not seem evil, although she was willing to kill Abraham, and she assaulted Magus when he refused to do so. On the other hand, she gave Tom a mark that let him sense puppies in danger.

That doesn't explain why Dex ended up summoning monsters. Why would Pandora want that? It's possible it's been explained and I just forget, it's been over five years (!) since those strips. Being willing to sacrifice Dex for the "greater good" seems kind of Evil, to me.

[Drascin]

Which alignment is Pandora Chaos Raven? Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil? Her intentions do not seem evil, although she was willing to kill Abraham, and she assaulted Magus when he refused to do so. On the other hand, she gave Tom a mark that let him sense puppies in danger.

That doesn't explain why Dex ended up summoning monsters. Why would Pandora want that? It's possible it's been explained and I just forget, it's been over five years (!) since those strips. Being willing to sacrifice Dex for the "greater good" seems kind of Evil, to me.

She's the uncaring sort of evil. Basically, it mostly seems Pandora simply does not give a flying **** about anyone she doesn't consider family, except as playthings. She will defend her family to the death, but if she has to get a random bystander to explode themselves for it (such as Dex), she isn't even going to blink at it.