OOTS #984 - The Discussion Thread

[DaggerPen]

I think I know why. Durkon is Lawful, and was kicked out of the Dwarven Lands by the official representative of his own god on earth. HPoH knows that Durkon would never suggest re-entering the DL without permission - it would be a dead giveaway he's no longer himself. He needs someone else to suggest it so Roy will try to persuade him that it's for the greater good. HPoH will, after much ado, reluctantly concede.

Ooh, you may have hit the nail on the head here.

[Kantaki]

Love the reference to Skadi

Skadi is quite interesting. Ice-Giantess, wife of the seagod Njord (marriage as reparation for her fathers death), worshiped as a goddess of hunters and mountaineers, associated with the cold and ice of the mountains contrasting her husband, placed the venomous serpent over the bound Loki...

[Killer Angel]

Hmm. The mystery thickens, just like coagulating blood.

There are lots of interesting theories. I wonder if at least one of them is vaguely near the truth...

[Fish]

Aye, that's really the fly in the ointment with the whole Hilgya theory. It's reasonable to assume that Loki and his followers would ally with Hel for reasons mentioned earlier, and if the HPoH saw Durkon's "Dungeon Crawling Fools" memories she's a perfect fit... but there's virtually no way that Durkon would know, and consequently what the HPoH would know, where she's been since then.

Durkon himself can cast Sending; Durkon also has much time alone in which to do so. I don't agree with the idea that there is "virtually no way" that Durkon could know her whereabouts or recent movements.

[Stegyre]

I think I know why. Durkon is Lawful, and was kicked out of the Dwarven Lands by the official representative of his own god on earth. HPoH knows that Durkon would never suggest re-entering the DL without permission - it would be a dead giveaway he's no longer himself. He needs someone else to suggest it so Roy will try to persuade him that it's for the greater good. HPoH will, after much ado, reluctantly concede.

I'm not convinced, as it seems to me HPoH could circumvent that problem simply by lampshading it: "The High Priest of Odin could do it, but alas, I am banished from the Dwarven Lands and must not return." (With suitable re-writing to Durkonese.)

[goodpeople25]

Durkon himself can cast Sending; Durkon also has much time alone in which to do so. I don't agree with the idea that there is "virtually no way" that Durkon could know her whereabouts or recent movements.

^ okay so it wouldn't prove that its not Durkon, but is saying that your in essense keeping in secret contact with a former enemy that much of a good idea, the secret part here is kinda something that doesn't feel like durkon, and if he was just scrying that means he was in essence stalking which i don't think is much better.

[Garwain]

Anyone else found the "Durkon, what the hell" comment funny? Right on the money Roy...

[Forikroder]

Durkon himself can cast Sending; Durkon also has much time alone in which to do so. I don't agree with the idea that there is "virtually no way" that Durkon could know her whereabouts or recent movements.

then why does he need a random gnome to point him in the right direction if there in contact?

he can easily cast senging to Hilgya either he doesnt care about her or shes not interested in working with him

[Shining Wrath]

Well, that's not ominous at all. Just who are you looking for, HPOH?

Shouldn't there be a "Dun dun DUN!" in there somewhere?

I am reasonably confidant that it is not based on anything Durkon specifically knew. Hel calls him her "serendipitous servant", implying that she was not plotting specifically to get Durkon. Unless the HPoH is able to communicate directly with Hel without anyone being able to tell, he wouldn't even be able to tell her anything Durkon had known until after the plan was set in motion.

We've already seen Hel and her high priest have a conversation. Whatever she knows, she can tell HPoH; and she probably knows a lot, what with portfolio sense.

[Lissou]

Durkon himself can cast Sending; Durkon also has much time alone in which to do so. I don't agree with the idea that there is "virtually no way" that Durkon could know her whereabouts or recent movements.

It's possible in theory for Durkon to know, but it's unlikely for Durkula to know without Durkon knowing, and Durkon doesn't seem to have any idea what Durkula is trying to do right now. So this is something Durkula knows that Durkon doesn't. In my opinion that's why Durkula is trying to get someone else to suggest it: he knows it's something Durkon can't possibly know, and therefore that would be suspicious if he did. It needs to come from somebody else.

[Kantaki]

then why does he need a random gnome to point him in the right direction if there in contact?

Especially since the only reasons the gnome is suspected of being involved with the HPoHs plan are that she is clumsy and wears no hat. So what? Then she is clumsy. Maybe she joined the ranks of Hoder only recently or she just has a low Dex. Neither means that she is evil.
And the hat? Really? Can a gnome not choose to wear no hat? Is the playground that intolerant? Do we seriously judge a young gnome only based on her choice of headgear? I hope not. She is most likely what she appears to be: a young gnomish priestess of Hoder who is a bit clumsy and still getting used to her blindfold.

[Grytorm]

I think Hilgya or some priest of Odin are the most likely. And its possible that Hel told her servant of the potential contact but not who exactly it is. And the relationship between Hilgya and Durkon could be the first problem with the plan.

[ReaderAt2046]

So it looks like:

1. HPoH really wants an excuse to find some specific cleric in Tinkertown.

2. The Northern Gods really don't want to give it that excuse (I think Hoder tripped that gnome there to keep her from "telling" HPoH about this mystery cleric).

[Mad Humanist]

I think what will be revealed in the next strip is that there is someone in town called "Hence the Fence" who has friendly contact with a high-level cleric.

[Kantaki]

So it looks like:

1. HPoH really wants an excuse to find some specific cleric in Tinkertown.

2. The Northern Gods really don't want to give it that excuse (I think Hoder tripped that gnome there to keep her from "telling" HPoH about this mystery cleric).

But she tripped after they left and the fall took her closer to the High Priest of Hel. If it was Hoders intention to prevent the priestess from talking to HpoH that was counterproductive. He would have to be blind to make such a mistake.

And I still think the hatless gnome is innocent. Unless the opposide is shown I will consider such statements slander from hat-purists.

[eusticepious]

What about the fact that the head cleric may have made a will save and this cleric is chasing after them after being hit for maximum damage in his/her feels. The other gnomes will hear the tumbling and draw conclusions, the head cleric may draw stronger conclusions than others.

My guess, as random as any, is that HPoH wants better access to Durkon's spellcasting abilities, needs a priest or ally of Hel to assist.

[Jasdoif]

He might have someone specific in mind - communing with Hel to confirm his actions could mean that he knew that a specific someone was in town and that they would have visited that specific temple - but it is not a given.

It just occurred to me....He said he'd "just straight-up wink" if it wasn't for the blindfold. A wink is generally used as a nonverbal signal of obliquely referencing a shared secret, doesn't it? If that's the case here, wouldn't that mean he knows the gnome, or is otherwise convinced the gnome is privy to the same secret for some reason?

[Ramien]

Especially since the only reasons the gnome is suspected of being involved with the HPoHs plan are that she is clumsy and wears no hat. So what? Then she is clumsy. Maybe she joined the ranks of Hoder only recently or she just has a low Dex. Neither means that she is evil.
And the hat? Really? Can a gnome not choose to wear no hat? Is the playground that intolerant? Do we seriously judge a young gnome only based on her choice of headgear? I hope not. She is most likely what she appears to be: a young gnomish priestess of Hoder who is a bit clumsy and still getting used to her blindfold.

It's more the 'hurrying after the party so the other priests don't hear what she has to say' bit. Personally, I'm of the opinion that she's a neophyte that the High Priest of Hoder sent after the party so she'd stop bumping into the other priests, so that he could let HPoH know what he was after without letting his secret slip in front of everyone else.

[ti'esar]

It just occurred to me....He said he'd "just straight-up wink" if it wasn't for the blindfold. A wink is generally used as a nonverbal signal of obliquely referencing a shared secret, doesn't it? If that's the case here, wouldn't that mean he knows the gnome, or is otherwise convinced the gnome is privy to the same secret for some reason?

Yeah, that's what I'm most interested in here as well. The HPoH seemed awfully certain the gnome priest knew exactly what he was talking about. Why did he think so, and is he right?

[Kantaki]

It's more the 'hurrying after the party so the other priests don't hear what she has to say' bit. Personally, I'm of the opinion that she's a neophyte that the High Priest of Hoder sent after the party so she'd stop bumping into the other priests, so that he could let HPoH know what he was after without letting his secret slip in front of everyone else.

Ah, now the High Priest of Hoder is an suspect we can agree upon. But why should want that the other priests don’t know that he helps those travellers to find someone who can cast resurrection? Who could be powerful enough to be of use for HpoH and why do they keep their presence a secret?

[rafet]

Best reason for Hilgya.

The gnome appeared with the High Priest on Honder, like his assistant, so she likely knows of person the person HPoH is looking for, but doesn't have the wisdom to keep it a secret. That the mostly simplest solution, so it is the most likely yes?

[Ramien]

I think I know why. Durkon is Lawful, and was kicked out of the Dwarven Lands by the official representative of his own god on earth. HPoH knows that Durkon would never suggest re-entering the DL without permission - it would be a dead giveaway he's no longer himself. He needs someone else to suggest it so Roy will try to persuade him that it's for the greater good. HPoH will, after much ado, reluctantly concede.

Doubtful. Roy is Lawful as well, and would at least make the suggestion that they cast Sending to talk to the Priest of Odin to try and get him to come out of the Dwarven Lands before doing something like that.

[ReturnOfTheKing]

I sense a plot twist incoming...

(late, sorry )

[Grey Pilgrim]

Aye, that's really the fly in the ointment with the whole Hilgya theory. It's reasonable to assume that Loki and his followers would ally with Hel for reasons mentioned earlier, and if the HPoH saw Durkon's "Dungeon Crawling Fools" memories she's a perfect fit... but there's virtually no way that Durkon would know, and consequently what the HPoH would know, where she's been since then. Heck, we can't even be 100% sure that she got out of the dungeon alive before Elan blew it to high Hel.

There is one way Durkula could know about Hilgya's whereabouts: Macebook!

[Kantaki]

Best reason for Hilgya.

The gnome appeared with the High Priest on Honder, like his assistant, so she likely knows of person the person HPoH is looking for, but doesn't have the wisdom to keep it a secret. That the mostly simplest solution, so it is the most likely yes?

That sounds possible, but aren’t divine casters wisdom based? Did she choose the wrong job? Is she a priestess but not a cleric? Misguided still sounds better than evil.

[Seto]

One more vote for the Hilgya theory (I only skimmed through the comments).

Actually, I read that line ("I know, you know" etc.) as first and foremost a shout-out to the readers and a lampshading of the fact Hilgya is going to reappear, when a lot of readers have been expecting it and saying it right here. I may be wrong. But it just sounded weird that Durkula would adress someone he doesn't know in such a way, and make assumptions about what this priest knows or doesn't.

[Keltest]

That sounds possible, but aren’t divine casters wisdom based? Did she choose the wrong job? Is she a priestess but not a cleric? Misguided still sounds better than evil.

not every cleric has 18 wis at level 1.

For that matter, we don't actually know what she is going to say yet. It could be something totally unrelated to what HPoH is after.

[Thealtruistorc]

What alignment would Hoder or his priests be? I am going to assume true neutral, as he doesn't really do much. There isn't much about him that I've read, but what I have definitely wouldn't put him on good terms with Loki (who tricked him into killing his brother). A direct affiliation with Hilgya at this point is unlikely.

[littlebum2002]

Let's look at the facts.

1. HPoH has a direct line to a goddess, so it's entirely possible, nay probable, that she's told him of this high level cleric that just passed through gnomish lands

2. HPoH needs to be somewhere, and wants (needs?) Roy to escort him there.

3. The high priest of Hodor knows about this high level cleric, but either isn't supposed to know or isn't supposed to tell anyone (thus the wink)

4. This person probably isn't a potential ally, because then Durkula could just cast Sending.

One possibility is that Hel told her High Priest about a high level cleric she wants him to vamp, but he can't express that he knows that knowledge because Roy would wonder where he got it. But then why is the High Priest of Hodor keeping it a secret?

Another possibility is that he wants the High Priest of Hodor to direct him to the High Priest of Odin, a cleric Durkon wouldn't dare to go visit without strong encouragement from Roy, due to his banishment. But then why would the High Priest of Hodor keep this a secret?

Or maybe #4 is mistaken. Maybe the High Priest of Hodor secretly helped a priest of Loki, and Durkon wants to meet this priest to discuss a potential alliance, but feels he would not be able to convince said priest through a Sending?

Edit: oooh, maybe it's a combination of the possibilities. HPoH wants to vamp.this evil cleric that the High Priest of Hodor isn't supposed to know about.

[Kantaki]

not every cleric has 18 wis at level 1.

For that matter, we don't actually know what she is going to say yet. It could be something totally unrelated to what HPoH is after.

But we can theorize that she thinks it is helpful and cince highlevel clerics seem to be rare in tinkertown we can further speculate that she wants to tell them about an traveling cleric that is powerful enough to help. Furthermore the entire Stick-world seems to have few highlevel clerics, making it unlikely that there are three of them are passing through the same area. Thus we can finaly assume that the person she wants to tell them about is identical with whomever HPoH is searching for.