Erfworld thread V: Baddie Will Not Post In Thread

[Lizard Lord]

The thing to remember is that this is not Parson's world and as such he sees no reason in following their rules. He does still have his own (albiet short list) of rules that he follows. The "order a unit to have sex with you" thing seems to be no big deal with other Erfworlders but to us, and thus to Parson, it is rape. As such Parson will not do it. To him that is far more dishonorable than anything he has done so far.

[ryuplaneswalker]

But securing the Portal from the MK-side is only reasonable since only a little while ago a City was invaded through one, meaning that the Magic Kingdom can't guarantee its own neutrality.

I can't say anything to justify the Golem. Only that the "don't cross the Portal of an other Side" was already broken.

Actually the "Neutrality" technically was not broken, GK was the capital..Parson wen through the GK portal.

Then GK's...Capital switched to Space Rock..and Parson went back through his sides portal.

Mind you this is not at ALL in the spirit of the law, but it is right down to the letter, he went through no portal that his side controlled.

[Kornaki]

Actually the "Neutrality" technically was not broken, GK was the capital..Parson wen through the GK portal.

Then GK's...Capital switched to Space Rock..and Parson went back through his sides portal.

Mind you this is not at ALL in the spirit of the law, but it is right down to the letter, he went through no portal that his side controlled.

You aren't remembering it right. Parson passes through Jetstone's portal, then Jetstone's capital switches and Parson is trapped in Space Rock. Then GK took the city, switched capitals and the portal re-opened.

[ryuplaneswalker]

You aren't remembering it right. Parson passes through Jetstone's portal, then Jetstone's capital switches and Parson is trapped in Space Rock. Then GK took the city, switched capitals and the portal re-opened.

Oh right well, I would say that if you lose control of your Portal, you deserve what comes through it.

[Kornaki]

Oh right well, I would say that if you lose control of your Portal, you deserve what comes through it.

But the mancers of the Magic Kingdom think otherwise. There's no gray line about who controls a portal, the side that controls the city controls the portal.

[Kantaki]

But the mancers of the Magic Kingdom think otherwise. There's no gray line about who controls a portal, the side that controls the city controls the portal.

But they failed to enforce this rule during the attack on Spacerock. Thus the MK is not neutral anymore and Gobwin Knob has every right to take measures to defend their Portal.

[NEO|Phyte]

Oh right well, I would say that if you lose control of your Portal, you deserve what comes through it.

The problem with this is that a given side has essentially no way to control their portal from the MK side. Casters aren't common enough to leave them stationed in the magic kingdom to keep people out, much less risk them on a one-unit capital assault. Once upon a time it was probably a thing, and presumably it destabilized the hell out of the MK, given how they view it in current turns. So it became taboo, banned, enforced by the neutral casters. If any side has been crazy enough to try it since then, we haven't heard of it. Until Parson, at least.

[Radar]

But they failed to enforce this rule during the attack on Spacerock. Thus the MK is not neutral anymore and Gobwin Knob has every right to take measures to defend their Portal.

But Gobwin Knob is The side that willingly broke the neutrality, so introducing regular army to MK is like adding an insult to injury. It's like banning people from the streets, because they are hit by cars too often. It's like taking away personal rights after a successful regicide, since clearly the authorities aren't safe enough.

[Kantaki]

But Gobwin Knob is The side that willingly broke the neutrality, so introducing regular army to MK is like adding an insult to injury. It's like banning people from the streets, because they are hit by cars too often. It's like taking away personal rights after a successful regicide, since clearly the authorities aren't safe enough.

And your point is? That Parson is the one who proved that MK can't secure their so called neutrality doesn't mean that he can't take measures to protect his Side from attacks the Magic Kingdom obviously cannot stop. Sure it is morally questionable but that matters little in a world that knows only war.

[Kornaki]

And your point is? That Parson is the one who proved that MK can't secure their so called neutrality doesn't mean that he can't take measures to protect his Side from attacks the Magic Kingdom obviously cannot stop. Sure it is morally questionable but that matters little in a world that knows only war.

It matters a lot if the question is 'why does everyone on Erf hate me?' And as you said, the whole world knows only war, so being hated by everyone is possibly worse than on Earth.

[Kantaki]

It matters a lot if the question is 'why does everyone on Erf hate me?' And as you said, the whole world knows only war, so being hated by everyone is possibly worse than on Earth.

But Gobwin Knob and by extension Parson were already hated by a large chunk of Erfworld before he pulled this particular stunt. And if every single guy in the neighborhood wants you dead why should you play by their rules? Considering that his Side has almost no allies, thanks to the antics of his "friends", Parson has little choice but using every ruthless and underhanded tactic nessecary. Sure some of those are a factor in Gobwin Knobs current popularity but most of it is the fault of Stanley, Wanda and Ansom.

[Porthos]

The point is, if one is suddenly going to change tactics and make friends, it's immeasurably more difficult if you metaphorically spat in their faces for a long time beforehand. As Parson himself noted when talking about being brash and loud in a "multiplayer environment".

Some won't care as much (see the Nixon clone whose name escapes me at the moment). Some? Very much so, it appears.

Part of "winning" can be not just "playing the rules" but "playing the room". That is, sure, know what the rules are so you can exploit them. But also know the quirks and habits of your opponents so one can exploit those as well. Running around like a bull in a antique shop might feel satisfactory. Maybe even necessary at the time. But sometimes acting like that might boop one down the road.

Parson is finding out that his exploits and general ruthless at times nature can indeed have consequences. That he recognizes that and is trying to mitigate it when necessary is a good tactic on his part.

To put all of this another way, Parson is finding out that Warring is easy; it's Diplomacy that's hard.

[Aquillion]

The thing to remember is that this is not Parson's world and as such he sees no reason in following their rules. He does still have his own (albiet short list) of rules that he follows. The "order a unit to have sex with you" thing seems to be no big deal with other Erfworlders

I'm not sure about this. IIRC Maggie's reaction when the topic came up implied to me that it had happened to her and that it was a big deal to her personally.

It's just that the people affected don't usually have many options to object.

[Porthos]

I'm not sure about this. IIRC Maggie's reaction when the topic came up implied to me that it had happened to her and that it was a big deal to her personally.

It's just that the people affected don't usually have many options to object.

I think if there's one thing the prose entries have shown its that the characters of Erfworld do indeed have private opinions on things, even if they are ordered to do it. It's a bit of a deconstruction of the idea of ordering units about in a (c)RPG. The deconstruction being, "Just what are their feelings on the matter? Especially the more dodgy things that can come up in a game".

The handwave is the hidden loyalty stat which can very much be affected by this.

Getting back to Parson, his hangup wasn't just the idea of rape, which was stomach turning enough, but the actual power imbalance at play. In his mind it was more like a boss having sex with a co-worker (which is... controversial in some quarters and probably shouldn't be examined in this thread ) and he just didn't like the idea. How Parson deals with those feelings is up to him, of course. But I suspect a large part of it is going to be his ongoing understanding that while it is very true that Erfworld Units can be compelled to do things as if they were glorified units on a board/screen and that they have (to a degree) hardcoded quirks and traits, they still have their own private dreams, desires, wants, and needs just like anyone else he used to know.

In short, they are people just like back home and not just glorified game pieces to move about.

[super dark33]

Update

The most importent thing to take from this is

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That Ansom's biker's helmet have turned into a Pickelhaube

[Killer Angel]

Update

The most importent thing to take from this is

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That Ansom's biker's helmet have turned into a Pickelhaube

Spoiler: yeah!

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And that's absolutely, totally cool.

[ryuplaneswalker]

The problem with this is that a given side has essentially no way to control their portal from the MK side. Casters aren't common enough to leave them stationed in the magic kingdom to keep people out, much less risk them on a one-unit capital assault. Once upon a time it was probably a thing, and presumably it destabilized the hell out of the MK, given how they view it in current turns. So it became taboo, banned, enforced by the neutral casters. If any side has been crazy enough to try it since then, we haven't heard of it. Until Parson, at least.

Yes, there is a way to control what goes in and out of your portal, it is a time tested tactic that every remotely decent military force has used.

It is called Guards, we know casters are not the most sturdy of people and we know that non casters can not go through the portal, the only non caster we have seen go through it is the Green Army Man, which takes a 3 caster link to create, so unless you have an army of Casters to start pumping out Golems there has never been a remote reason to even attempt an attack through a portal, even now it really is a terrible idea to attempt an invasion from a portal. It is a wretched choke point and the only good thing that can be done with it is a suicide bombing, which is relatively pointless as the damage can repaired at the end of the Day.

The whole "neutrality" thing was never relevant from the start really.

And if we really wanna start pointing fingers, the first one should go towards The Great Minds, who created a ritual to "deal" with a side that they have a problem with. It is not very neutral to summon someone to Assassinate an Overlord.

So frankly, the MK are a bunch of snobs who are really not any better than the rest of Erfworld, so they can stuff their "rules" in their ears.

[HandofShadows]

Update

The most importent thing to take from this is

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That Ansom's biker's helmet have turned into a Pickelhaube

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I find it interesting that Wanda is worried about Ansom and that is being asked to lie. And that Jack knows she can look through the eyes of the Archon. If Jack knows I would think Parson would know as well. Could be wrong though.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

But Gobwin Knob and by extension Parson were already hated by a large chunk of Erfworld before he pulled this particular stunt. And if every single guy in the neighborhood wants you dead why should you play by their rules? Considering that his Side has almost no allies, thanks to the antics of his "friends", Parson has little choice but using every ruthless and underhanded tactic nessecary. Sure some of those are a factor in Gobwin Knobs current popularity but most of it is the fault of Stanley, Wanda and Ansom.

Admittedly, the major reason the outside Sides loathe them is because of the aforementioned. The reason the MK is hostile is because of primarily parson. Also, Parson has gone on record stating "I don't have a plan", and that his primary motivation is that "I'm not gonna send people into battles that I wouldn't fight myself". Hardly 'ruthless and underhanded'.

Though thinking about it, if they Promoted Ossomer, and then Ossomer Turned, man wouldn't that have sucked? But Parson wasn't even remotely concerned with that angle, either. Unanswered questions...

[Narkis]

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I find it interesting that Wanda is worried about Ansom and that is being asked to lie. And that Jack knows she can look through the eyes of the Archon. If Jack knows I would think Parson would know as well. Could be wrong though.

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Parson knows. She asked him to get her more archons so she could do the trick again. We don't know if she told him about that specific archon though.

[Kantaki]

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Wow, Ansom starts doubting himself and his worldview? And Jack seems to notice it. I hope this won't hurt Gobwin Knob too much. More importantly he wears an new helmet. The signmancy of with is not exactly good.

[Rogar Demonblud]

That was a nice Moneymancy pun Jack made. Wonder how much chaos a Moneymancer/Foolamancer link up could cause.

[Calemyr]

That was a nice Moneymancy pun Jack made. Wonder how much chaos a Moneymancer/Foolamancer link up could cause.

It would fail quickly. A fool and his moneymancer are soon parted.

[-D-]

That was a nice Moneymancy pun Jack made. Wonder how much chaos a Moneymancer/Foolamancer link up could cause.

What you mean?

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Wow, Ansom starts doubting himself and his worldview? And Jack seems to notice it. I hope this won't hurt Gobwin Knob too much. More importantly he wears an new helmet. The signmancy of with is not exactly good.

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Having black sun also wouldn't help :P

I like how it seems Wanda is being set up for further clash with Parson. The comment about Jillian (book 2, before the battle of Jetstone, where he suggest she came for Ansom) hurt Wanda badly. Especially since Parson was right. And Wanda can't admit it.

[Calemyr]

What you mean?

"Jetstone isn't mercenary. They fight on the principle, not the interest." 'Principal' is the amount owed, which is used to calculate interest on a loan.

[Kantaki]

What you mean?

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Having black sun also wouldn't help :P

I like how it seems Wanda is being set up for further clash with Parson. The comment about Jillian (book 2, before the battle of Jetstone, where he suggest she came for Ansom) hurt Wanda badly. Especially since Parson was right. And Wanda can't admit it.

I fear I don’t get the spoilered part.
Yes, Wanda, I wonder if she will be ultimately a greater foe to Lord Hamster than Charlie and/or possibly the Great Minds. It would be interesting if the endgame of Erfworld would be Parson and allies versus Wanda and her Decripted.

[-D-]

I fear I don’t get the spoilered part.

Spoiler: Politik und Symbol

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Black sun/Swastika is a Hindu symbol appropriated by Nazi Germany.

Yes, Wanda, I wonder if she will be ultimately a greater foe to Lord Hamster than Charlie and/or possibly the Great Minds. It would be interesting if the endgame of Erfworld would be Parson and allies versus Wanda and her Decripted.

Well, he already knows that breaking link between Tool and Hero is possible.

[HandofShadows]

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Wow, Ansom starts doubting himself and his worldview? And Jack seems to notice it. I hope this won't hurt Gobwin Knob too much. More importantly he wears an new helmet. The signmancy of with is not exactly good.

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It's the helmet used by German (Army, Police and Firefighters) before and during World War I. It was being phased out by the end of the war. It actually goes with GW being the "bad guys" theme it has going.

[Kantaki]

@-D-: D’oh, That yes that would be worse. Can’t recall ever hearing that name for it trough. And a Pickelhaube is already enough to indicate a bad guy (Pickelhaube = german = evil). I mean what is the fastest way to determinate if a movie character is evil? You check if either the actor or the character is german. I'm allowed to make this joke I'm german.

Was there ever a case of an bond between an Arkentool and its attuned user being broken? Sure Ansom lost the Pliers but he wasn't attuned to them and he died before Wanda got them. Stanley found the Hammer, I'm not sure about Charlie and the Dish and the Shoes previous owner croaked before Judy attuned to them. Am I missing something or is that what you meant.

@HandofShadows: I got the Pickelhaube. I just didn't know the euphemism in -D-s spoiler. Believe me if I say that our schools don't let us forget about that particular period of our history.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Forget being German. Of late, the truest mark of the villain is a British accent.