So maybe V is in a same sex marriage?

[Heksefatter]

The Supreme Court of the United States of America ruled today that same sex marriage is a right guaranteed by the United States Constitution, and thus that all states are required to allow and recognize it.

LGBT people and their supporters are ecstatic over the news.

Congratulations are in order for the people affected by it, but it's an issue rather tightly coupled to politics so be careful discussing anything more about it than that.

So, since I will keep this statement as non-linked to politics as I can, I will just say YAY! and congratulations to all those couples who are affected by the ruling.

[Psyren]

There's a party in the LGBT thread for those who want to generally celebrate without tying it specifically to discussion of the comic.

As for V, until he objects to the pronoun "he" on screen I'll just use that (or they, or V) for convenience.

[Hecuba]

Don't be ridiculous. V is divorced.

Hooray! By implication, we now know some vague and banal details about the Elven Legal System.

If they have an equivalent to the waiting period between serving an absent spouse and the finalization of divorce that is akin to that frequently found in common-law jurisdictions, then either it must have some option analogous to a judicial waver or require a shorter time-frame than the period that has passed since comic #678.

In hindsight, that's not particularly surprising: for most jurisdictions I'm aware of IRL, the time-frame is around 30 days.

Still, I wonder if any of Tarquin's implied uxoricides have had to confront this as a kind of ticking clock...

[Douglas]

Still, I wonder if any of Tarquin's implied uxoricides have had to confront this as a kind of ticking clock...

Don't be ridiculous, the law where Tarquin lives is whatever Tarquin says it is!

[Hecuba]

Don't be ridiculous, the law where Tarquin lives is whatever Tarquin says it is!

Yes, but if his erstwhile spouse managed to get to another jurisdiction, the process of making her his late wife before she became his ex-wife might have made an interesting (and blatantly evil) side-quest.

[Jasdoif]

If they have an equivalent to the waiting period between serving an absent spouse and the finalization of divorce that is akin to that frequently found in common-law jurisdictions, then either it must have some option analogous to a judicial waver or require a shorter time-frame than the period that has passed since comic #678.

Could such a waiver be what Vaarsuvius was signing in 679?

[Hecuba]

Could such a waiver be what Vaarsuvius was signing in 679?

Tarnations. I had forgotten that page. Not quite the same, but it's likely an instrument indicating consent or lack of contest: such a thing would make judicial waver unnecessary.

Drat.

[theasl]

Perhaps because we can consider something to be important contrary to what a fictional character thinks is important?

I was just trying to make a joke about how OOTS forums overanalyze every single tiny detail.

I think I need to work on my humor heuristics.

[Rakoa]

I was just trying to make a joke about how OOTS forums overanalyze every single tiny detail.

I think I need to work on my humor heuristics.

My apologies! Some people get too uptight about those things. And then I get uppity in response.

Does it count as a joke that I overanalyzed your joke about overanalysis?

[theasl]

My apologies! Some people get too uptight about those things. And then I get uppity in response.

Does it count as a joke that I overanalyzed your joke about overanalysis?

Just proof that the joke is grounded in reality! No offense taken, it's always good to get a reminder occasionally not to joke around in potentially offensive topics.

Now, carry on everyone else...

[Killer Angel]

LGBT people and their supporters are ecstatic over the news.

Congratulations are in order for the people affected by it, but it's an issue rather tightly coupled to politics so be careful discussing anything more about it than that.

There's no need to be happy. We all know that the OotS is racist and sexist.

(disclaimer: the link is to a very old thread made as an april's fool. The same spirit applies to my "no need to be happy". those news are really good)

[Deliverance]

Was this ever considered when trying to determine if V is a dude or a chick?

Of course it was. A complete lack of information has never held this forum back from rampant speculation and examination of options, no matter how obvious or how farfetched, and that particular example is one of the obvious ones.

But in the end all the forum's speculation is up against one incontrovertible fact, namely that V's gender is perfectly described by a single word, and that word is: irrelevant.

Yes, shocking as it may seem, and quite refreshing if I may say so, V's gender is irrelevant to the story, allowing the reader to consider V's actions on their own merits without gender views colouring interpretations.

More importantly, perhaps, while it may have started out as a joke back in the day, it is nice to have at least one of the main characters not being obsessed with either gender or sex, but having other priorities.

[LuisDantas]

Nah, what we saw of V with the family showed us V largely ignored them. They're better off without V.

I beg to differ. V has been involved in missions that, far as he knows, are necessary for the world to keep existing. He was careless and dangerous for Kyrie and the children, true, but in circunstances that are not entirely his fault and that are unlikely to repeat themselves, at least once this gates/Xykon/Snarl matter is settled.

There are apologies to be offered and lessons to be learned, but what we saw of V shows that he cares a lot about his family and deserves a chance to sort things out when things get quieter.

But then, I'm not a hopeless romantic who's seen people stick with people "they love" that also mistreat them and are generally horrible.

Fair enough. I still think you are being too harsh on poor V.

[LuisDantas]

I always got the impression from dialogue that V considered gender unimportant, so much that when it became a plot point s/he specifically mentioned "Normally I don't pay attention to pronouns."

I'm drawing a blank. Where did that happen?

I have said this before: the coloring book that most or all of the Kickstarter supporters received pretty much makes a point of stating that V's gender and sexuality do not have to matter to anyone else. That is probably the reason why they are a continuing plot point.

That said, I think I will always think of V as a male. It probably does not matter and there is a big chance that it is wrong, but that is how it turns out to me.

For whatever reason, Inkie looks far more ambiguous to me than V.

[goodpeople25]

I'm drawing a blank. Where did that happen?

i believe Darth Paul is referring to this strip Panel #6.

[Killer Angel]

i believe Darth Paul is referring to this strip Panel #6.

Are we going really back in time, aren't we?

[LuisDantas]

i believe Darth Paul is referring to this strip Panel #6.

Thanks. I fear however that this strip only tells us that Vaarsuvius is used to misconceptions about his or her gender, which we sort of knew already.

A clear indication of whether he feels it is a relevant matter or why is IMO lacking.

[Xihirli]

I'm drawing a blank. Where did that happen?

I have said this before: the coloring book that most or all of the Kickstarter supporters received pretty much makes a point of stating that V's gender and sexuality do not have to matter to anyone else. That is probably the reason why they are a continuing plot point.

That said, I think I will always think of V as a male. It probably does not matter and there is a big chance that it is wrong, but that is how it turns out to me.

For whatever reason, Inkie looks far more ambiguous to me than V.

Inkie was designed to look ambiguous. The Giant wasn't planning on hiding V's gender until after he learned that no one could tell.

[drazen]

After Pompeii was deemed a clear-gendered half-elf, I always assumed that implied that all of the 'regular' elves were some sort of androgynous blend, which was why V would get muddled on the details, having mostly lived in a genderless/androgynous society. And then if they mated with a different race/species and conceived a half-elf, the child would suddenly get a gender (from the other race/species DNA).

Maybe I over-thought that one?

[Psyren]

After Pompeii was deemed a clear-gendered half-elf, I always assumed that implied that all of the 'regular' elves were some sort of androgynous blend, which was why V would get muddled on the details, having mostly lived in a genderless/androgynous society. And then if they mated with a different race/species and conceived a half-elf, the child would suddenly get a gender (from the other race/species DNA).

Maybe I over-thought that one?

Well, Lirian is pretty clearly female and identifies as such. Rather than assuming all elves to be agendered or gender-fluid, I simply assumed that elven society is just more tolerant/elucidatory of the concept, and thus more individuals are comfortable identifying that way.

This would explain V's irritation with the non-elves in the party making it an issue. (Heck, even Durkon and Roy make less-tolerant comments on occasion.)

[SirKazum]

Well, Lirian is pretty clearly female and identifies as such. Rather than assuming all elves to be agendered or gender-fluid, I simply assumed that elven society is just more tolerant/elucidatory of the concept, and thus more individuals are comfortable identifying that way.

This would explain V's irritation with the non-elves in the party making it an issue. (Heck, even Durkon and Roy make less-tolerant comments on occasion.)

We get to see several more elves when they join the Azure City resistance, and indeed, they too seem to have clear genders. It's still possible that any "female-looking" elf is really male (by self-identification and/or by birth), and vice versa... though of course the same theoretically applies to most other characters in the series.

Point is, taking those elves as a reference, Stickverse elves don't seem particularly different from any other race in the Stickverse in matters of gender. I guess it's just a running joke specifically regarding Vaarsuvius (and also encompassing Inkyrius, which is necessary for the purpose of keeping the running joke running).

Yeah, maybe elves are more open about "non-standard" gender identities... but, given a recent comic's insight on dwarven attitudes on sexual orientation, I wouldn't necessarily take that for granted.

[hroþila]

Really? I'd say most of the elven commandos are meant to be just as ambiguous as V, the only exception being the captain.

[Threadnaught]

{Scrubbed}

[Keltest]

{Scrubbed}

You know, I really want to assume youre being sarcastic here, but ive seen enough people who weren't that I feel compelled to check.

[Threadnaught]

{Scrubbed}

[Keltest]

{Scrubbed}

Thanks, I feel better now.

[Kish]

Hayley, whoever she is, may be overtly heterosexual, but Haley is bisexual--as of the beginning of this story arc, openly so.

[Threadnaught]

Hayley, whoever she is, may be overtly heterosexual, but Haley is bisexual--as of the beginning of this story arc, openly so.

Yay.

Now The Giant just needs to fix Roy, Elan and Belkar.

[Psyren]

We get to see several more elves when they join the Azure City resistance, and indeed, they too seem to have clear genders. It's still possible that any "female-looking" elf is really male (by self-identification and/or by birth), and vice versa... though of course the same theoretically applies to most other characters in the series.

Point is, taking those elves as a reference, Stickverse elves don't seem particularly different from any other race in the Stickverse in matters of gender. I guess it's just a running joke specifically regarding Vaarsuvius (and also encompassing Inkyrius, which is necessary for the purpose of keeping the running joke running).

Yeah, maybe elves are more open about "non-standard" gender identities... but, given a recent comic's insight on dwarven attitudes on sexual orientation, I wouldn't necessarily take that for granted.

Gender identity and sexual orientation are very different things though. It's quite possible for a given society to be very well-versed in the latter but not the former, especially one whose secondary sexual characteristics (such as, say, beards) are very prominent in the adult population. So dwarven society can have slightly more traditional ideas (or at least assumptions) on gender as a result even if they're very tolerant of orientation.

Compare to elves, where these same characteristics are very muted. Elves tend to have long hair on the head, slender forms, little to no body or facial hair, they are commonly described as having light or clear voices, and in OoTS they are commonly drawn with loose or flowing clothing that would de-emphasize their body shape. For a society like that, where sexual differences are de-emphasized, I would expect gender differences to be similarly de-emphasized. And it would again fit with V's irritation at getting out into the world and learning that the other D&D races are seemingly obsessed with such a (to elves) relatively inconsequential facet of life.

The end result is you can have otherwise well-meaning folks like Roy using phrases like "both genders" (implying acknowledgement of only two), and Durkon telling Elan he "ne'er been quite sure" of V's gender in a moment of irritation. This doesn't diminish either character, it just sheds a little light on the kind of assumptions they are working with, and some of the fundamental differences between their cultures and elven culture as a result.

[SirKazum]

Gender identity and sexual orientation are very different things though. It's quite possible for a given society to be very well-versed in the latter but not the former, especially one whose secondary sexual characteristics (such as, say, beards) are very prominent in the adult population. So dwarven society can have slightly more traditional ideas (or at least assumptions) on gender as a result even if they're very tolerant of orientation.

Compare to elves, where these same characteristics are very muted. Elves tend to have long hair on the head, slender forms, little to no body or facial hair, they are commonly described as having light or clear voices, and in OoTS they are commonly drawn with loose or flowing clothing that would de-emphasize their body shape. For a society like that, where sexual differences are de-emphasized, I would expect gender differences to be similarly de-emphasized. And it would again fit with V's irritation at getting out into the world and learning that the other D&D races are seemingly obsessed with such a (to elves) relatively inconsequential facet of life.

The end result is you can have otherwise well-meaning folks like Roy using phrases like "both genders" (implying acknowledgement of only two), and Durkon telling Elan he "ne'er been quite sure" of V's gender in a moment of irritation. This doesn't diminish either character, it just sheds a little light on the kind of assumptions they are working with, and some of the fundamental differences between their cultures and elven culture as a result.

That does make sense. Yes, elves are kinda androgynous to begin with, so if any given race is going to be more open-minded than the others about sexual identity, I guess it makes sense it would be them.

That said, I do think Vaarsuvius self-identifies as a single, definite gender (rather than "neither" or "both" or something like that). The joke is that, while that answer (V's gender) exists, nobody knows what it is, and V continues to keep it in the dark. The frustration of not knowing the answer to a question that does have a definitive answer is crucial to the joke, IMO. Aside from the fact that V never implies that answer is unclear, just that it's irrelevant, what makes me convinced there is an answer is

Spoiler: On the Origin of PCs material

Show

V's application form. The ink-blot would be entirely unnecessary if it was filled with a "?" or something ambiguous like that. No, it looks like V did write either "F" or "M", and deemed it beneath veself to clarify the matter when it turned out unreadable.