Saga Edition Thread III: Saga Academy

[Mando Knight]

Trying to balance it out, primarily for use by characters like the Inquisitors, offering advantages to overall-mediocre Force Users while being less attractive to actual Jedi or Sith.

Spoiler: Spinning Lightsaber

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Size: Medium; Cost: 8000 Credits; Damage: 2d8/2d8; Stun: No; Weight: 2 kg; Type: Energy and slashing; Availability: Rare (Illegal under the Galactic Empire)

The Spinning Lightsaber is a unique piece of equipment distributed by Emperor Palpatine to his Inquisitors (and is often also called an "Inquisitor Lightsaber" because of it). Consisting of a lightsaber handle surrounded by a circular guard and two emitters, the Spinning Lightsaber is a double weapon that is weighted so that it may be used with one hand. If you choose to use only one hand when attacking with both ends of the weapon, you loses your Strength bonus to the damage roll.

In addition, as a swift action the user can engage the weapon's drive motors, rapidly spinning the emitters around the central handle. While the weapon is spinning, deflecting blows becomes easier, granting a +2 competence bonus to Use the Force checks to use the Block and Deflect talents. However, because the weapon's rapidly spinning blades make it more difficult to leverage an effective attack, you take a -2 penalty to all attack rolls made with the weapon while it is in spinning mode.

[Scowling Dragon]

Works perfectly.

[Jayngfet]

Question: There's a starship designer feat, but is there a droid designer feat? I've been tossing around some ideas for a second degree droid and Starship design isn't hyper feasible right now just because all my ship based resources are going towards other stuff, which will take in game months and like a million credits in goods. Designing a droid worth a few thousand credits is much easier than designing a ship worth 200k given my situation.

[LibraryOgre]

I'd provisionally allow a droid designer feat.

[Scowling Dragon]

Question: Does SR or DR come first? I think SR, but it never hurts to ask.

Also is it just me, or do defenses scale MUCH faster than offenses?

I mean its Ability score ,+2 at level 1-7, +4 at level 8-20, + Level

Its like the classes that offer situational +1/2 bonuses are the same ones that have lower BAB progression so it just balances out.

[Mando Knight]

SR is first.

Yes, defenses scale pretty harshly in Saga. However, you're not supposed to be using at-level NPCs against your players for every encounter, that's not how Star Wars works. With that in mind, the big showdowns against Heroic enemies are places where you burn Force Points, which will make up much of the difference, and the aggressive scaling for defenses mean that you can throw on a couple Heroic levels on elite mooks to have them last a little longer than your average stormtrooper squad.

[LibraryOgre]

Yes, defenses scale pretty harshly in Saga. However, you're not supposed to be using at-level NPCs against your players for every encounter, that's not how Star Wars works. With that in mind, the big showdowns against Heroic enemies are places where you burn Force Points, which will make up much of the difference, and the aggressive scaling for defenses mean that you can throw on a couple Heroic levels on elite mooks to have them last a little longer than your average stormtrooper squad.

I'll add that defenses scale less powerfully in Classless Saga, or when dealing with Jedi or Soldiers... your attack bonus is your level, matched with their defense bonus of their level, plus a few modifiers (their class modifiers to defenses, attribute modifiers to attacks and defenses, various feats, etc.).

[Waar]

Also is it just me, or do defenses scale MUCH faster than offenses?

I mean its Ability score ,+2 at level 1-7, +4 at level 8-20, + Level

Its like the classes that offer situational +1/2 bonuses are the same ones that have lower BAB progression so it just balances out.

Yes, which is why you should be carfull with combat against npcs with a heroic level equal to or higher than the pcs, but nonheroics and lower level heroics make much better targets.

oh and don't disregard the value of getting +2 to hit from a noble with supporting talents or other team wide buffs.

[Scowling Dragon]

As an experiment, I took the Boss Template from the Tower of the Lonely GM and converted it into Star Wars Saga.

Thoughts? Balance recomendations?

Spoiler: The Boss Template

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The Boss Template

These alterations are meant to increase an Enemy’s capabilities so that it may face a group of PCs (player characters). After applying the template the Enemy’s CL will be equal to its original value + 1 for every 2 PCs in the party rounded up. For example: a Mercenary Soldier boss facing 5 PCs would be CL 6 (original CL 3 + 2 for 4 first PCs, rounding up the 5th). As always, this is just an approximation and the Gamemaster should check the Enemy’s new stats.

This template presupposes a narrative structure underling the adventure (i.e.: the altered Enemy has this power level not itself, but only in contrast to the heroes).

Rules:

General: The Enemy gains a Boss bonus on all its attack rolls, damage rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and damage threshold equal to the number the number of PCs faced or its original CL (whichever is lower).

Hip Points: Multiply the Enemy’s original HPs by the number of PCs.

Combat Prowess: The Enemy gains one extra standard action for every 2 PCs it is facing (Round down).

It can’t use this extra standard action during its turn. Instead that standard action becomes a mini turn. Go down the initiative order below the enemy (Or loop back around to the top if the Enemy is going last), and intersperse the extra standard actions in-between the players turns. This standard action may be exchanged for a move or swift action as usual. If the standard action is used to attack, the primary target must be a different target then any of the other bonus standard actions.
Finally, the Enemy also gains the same number in extra attacks of opportunity.

Force Points: The Enemy gains its full array of force points +1 per PC. If it’s a purely Nonplayer Class, it gains force points equal to 5+1/2 its nonheroic level.

Theme: The Enemy gains special abilities linked to a common theme, chosen below. An enemy can activate one of the abilities chosen from its theme by spending a force point. Force points spent this way don’t count towards the total force points spent in the round. However the boss can only spend a number of force points for the use of these abilities per round equal to the amount of PCs/2 rounded down.

Brute Force
- Automatically make an attack that targets the fortitude defense miss (Immediate action)
- After hitting an attack, deal maximum damage (can’t be used on critical) (free action)
- Gain a number of temporary HPs equal to original CL x 5 or move +5 steps up the condition track (immediate action)
- Keep fighting for 1 more turn even if reduced bellow 0 HPs or dead (standard action)

UNLIMITED POWER
- Apply any Force Technique (the Enemy doesn’t need to have it) to the next Force Power used. If the technique has a force point cost to activate, that force point cost is waived(swift action)
- Recover one Force Power (free action, after using the ability)
- Gain one free use of the Negate Energy or Rebuke Power (immediate action)
- Automatically make an attack that targets the Will defense miss (Immediate action)
- Ignore the next spell/powers cast against it, until the Enemy has ignored a number of spell/power levels equal to its original CL (swift action, can only be used once per encounter)

Cunning (Do It)
- Extra standard action (can’t be an attack) (swift action)
- Force enemy to reroll any check and take the worse result (immediate action)
- One enemy’s action provokes an attack of opportunity even if it wouldn’t normally (immediate action)
- Deal +2 damage per the enemies original CL (Round down) on the Enemies next attack against a target that’s flat footed, unaware, or otherwise denied its dexterity bonus to its reflex Defense (immediate action)
- Automatically make an attack that targets the Reflex or Will defense miss (Immediate action)
-Gain Concealment for 1 round (swift action)

[Blue Duke]

I was never happy with default storm troopers as presented in the Core book....it felt like they were going towards movie troopers 'the mooks of empire' when i thought that stormies were the Elite and the mooks were imperial army....any one have or know which book i should look into for the properly elite Storm troopers as opposed to CL1 goon squad troops ?

[Mando Knight]

Most sources depict stormtroopers pretty much the way Saga Edition does: the rank-and-file main infantry force of the Empire, and particularly not a highly-trained elite force, in spite of claims to the contrary. Except, of course, the ones that accompany Vader. The basic Stormtrooper statblock reflects the kind of guys that don't need to see your identification and can lose a firefight when ambushed by a farmboy and two smugglers.

If you need a force of (actually) elite Stormtroopers, I'd use the various clone trooper statblocks.

[Scowling Dragon]

They are relatively elite. They got very good armor, decent stats, and decent CL and level for a mook thats supposed to be manufactured on a galactic scale.

[Barzotten]

Hello to everyone i'm new here, i registered because i've go a fluff/rules questi on atout swse.

The yuzan vong(almost everyone hates them) are said to be immune to the force and not being able to be seen trough it, but in the rules they say :

- immune to Force power who target will( fine make sense to op to be totale immune.

-cut off from the force ( no dp and fp ok) but it doesnt state that force perception doesnt see them .

Andy idea why or an errata about it?

[Sparx MacGyver]

I've got a question for my fellow SWSE GM's. What's the worst thing you've put up against your pc's? I'm talking Shock & Awe!


For myself, the worst thing I've done in some time is utilize the AT-HE and AT-WF, All Terrain Heavy Enforcer and All Terrain Walking Fortress. Basically, bigger AT-AT's but more heavily armored and armed. AT-HE comes with one turbolaser cannon, while the AT-WF has two, among other weaponry. Here is my version of the AT-HE. It was a great adventure. The group had learned of new weaponry developed, and so proceeded to go on a long winded adventure to put a stop to it. One part took them to a walker factory where they discovered the AT-HE prototypes, and blueprints for the AT-WF. I figured they would sabotage them and make off with the intel. I was mistaken. The PC's decided to steal the AT-HE, but were not very stealthy and so the bad guys got to them first. Rather than run off, my players manned up and took them on in an AT-AT and two AT-ST's. Many FP and DP were spent.



All Terrain Heavy Enforcer (AT-HE)
The All Terrain Heavy Enforcer (AT-HE) walker was designed to have a more upright stance, similar to the contemporary model AT-AT. This made the walker less vulnerable to mines, and gave the gunners a wider field of fire and vision as compared to the contemporary AT-TE. It was a behemoth of a walker, standing at 36 meter long, and 46 meters high, it it is well armed and armored and an imposing and fearsome sight on the battlefield. It was developed and initially produced during the Clone Wars, it saw limited use during those wars. However after the Empire was formed it saw more wide spread use in different theaters. Usually in the same vein as the smaller AT-AT. It's more heavily armed to deal with fortifications and even more shock and awe.

Spoiler

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AT-HE CL 14
Colossal ground vehicle (walker)
Init -2; Senses Perception +8
Defense Ref 16 (flat-footed 16), Fort 29; +16 armor
hp 500; SR 55; DR 35; Threshold 79
Speed 4 squares
Ranged turbolaser cannon +7 (see below) and
Ranged heavy laser cannons +7 (see below) and
Ranged blaster cannons +7 (see below) and
Ranged blaster turret +7 (see below)
Fighting Space 8x12; Cover total
Base Atk +5; Grp +42
Atk Options autofire (all blaster cannons)
Abilities Str 48, Dex 10, Con -, Int 14
Skills Initiative -2, Mechanics +8, Perception +8, Pilot -2
Crew 7 (expert); Passengers 40
Cargo 1 ton; Consumables 1 week; Carried Craft 5 speeder bikes or 2 AT-STs or 2 Repulsor Tanks
Availability Military; Cost not available for sale

Turbolaser cannons (gunner)
Atk +7, Dmg 4d10x5, 4-square splash

Heavy laser cannons (gunner)
Atk +7, Dmg 8d10x2, 2-square splash

Blaster cannons (gunner)
Atk +7 (+2 autofire), Dmg 3d10x2

Underside Blaster cannons (gunner)
Atk +7 (+2 autofire), Dmg 3d10x2

Here is a link to the AT-WF.
http://swfanon.wikia.com/wiki/All_Te...lking_Fortress

[chainer1216]

I find myself in need of a sanity check! I have a campaign idea that sounds cool to me but I want opinions.

All clone trooper game, set during the clone wars. Each player starts at soldier level 3 with stats of 15 across the board and then each player chooses a role, like vanguard, demolitionist, medic, etc, which informs feat/talent choices. Then on top of that each player gets a special ability of some sort. one will be force sensitive, another will be able to rage like a wookie, and other abilities that I still need to figure out/am open to suggestions for. Halfway through the first session they all level up and have total freedom on what to take.

theyd start as a part of a unit of brand new clones being led by a Jedi knight who would encourage them to be individuals and respect them and generally be a good guy.

And then abruptly after they hit 5th level, Order 66. I'll roll against their Will and if they fail they'll be compelled to attack the Jedi, and that's when the game really starts, with them reacting to Order 66 and figuring out what to do afterwards.

[Mando Knight]

All Terrain Heavy Enforcer (AT-HE)
The All Terrain Heavy Enforcer (AT-HE) walker was designed to have a more upright stance, similar to the contemporary model AT-AT. This made the walker less vulnerable to mines, and gave the gunners a wider field of fire and vision as compared to the contemporary AT-TE. It was a behemoth of a walker, standing at 36 meter long, and 46 meters high, it it is well armed and armored and an imposing and fearsome sight on the battlefield. It was developed and initially produced during the Clone Wars, it saw limited use during those wars. However after the Empire was formed it saw more wide spread use in different theaters. Usually in the same vein as the smaller AT-AT. It's more heavily armed to deal with fortifications and even more shock and awe.

Spoiler

Show

AT-HE CL 14
Colossal ground vehicle (walker)
Init -2; Senses Perception +8
Defense Ref 16 (flat-footed 16), Fort 29; +16 armor
hp 500; SR 55; DR 35; Threshold 79
Speed 4 squares
Ranged turbolaser cannon +7 (see below) and
Ranged heavy laser cannons +7 (see below) and
Ranged blaster cannons +7 (see below) and
Ranged blaster turret +7 (see below)
Fighting Space 8x12; Cover total
Base Atk +5; Grp +42
Atk Options autofire (all blaster cannons)
Abilities Str 48, Dex 10, Con -, Int 14
Skills Initiative -2, Mechanics +8, Perception +8, Pilot -2
Crew 7 (expert); Passengers 40
Cargo 1 ton; Consumables 1 week; Carried Craft 5 speeder bikes or 2 AT-STs or 2 Repulsor Tanks
Availability Military; Cost not available for sale

Turbolaser cannons (gunner)
Atk +7, Dmg 4d10x5, 4-square splash

Heavy laser cannons (gunner)
Atk +7, Dmg 8d10x2, 2-square splash

Blaster cannons (gunner)
Atk +7 (+2 autofire), Dmg 3d10x2

Underside Blaster cannons (gunner)
Atk +7 (+2 autofire), Dmg 3d10x2

Here is a link to the AT-WF.
http://swfanon.wikia.com/wiki/All_Te...lking_Fortress

The turbolaser should have an attack penalty against non-Colossal targets. The CL is also way out of spec if the AT-AT's is held as reasonable, since it has more and bigger weapons and is harder to injure (you essentially need vehicle weapons to penetrate the shielding, let alone the DR, before you can even think about grinding through the 500 HP).

I find myself in need of a sanity check! I have a campaign idea that sounds cool to me but I want opinions.

All clone trooper game, set during the clone wars. Each player starts at soldier level 3 with stats of 15 across the board and then each player chooses a role, like vanguard, demolitionist, medic, etc, which informs feat/talent choices. Then on top of that each player gets a special ability of some sort. one will be force sensitive, another will be able to rage like a wookie, and other abilities that I still need to figure out/am open to suggestions for. Halfway through the first session they all level up and have total freedom on what to take.

theyd start as a part of a unit of brand new clones being led by a Jedi knight who would encourage them to be individuals and respect them and generally be a good guy.

And then abruptly after they hit 5th level, Order 66. I'll roll against their Will and if they fail they'll be compelled to attack the Jedi, and that's when the game really starts, with them reacting to Order 66 and figuring out what to do afterwards.

I dunno, to me, the idea of these extra special abilities is kinda antithetical to the appeal of the clone trooper, especially Wookiee rage (which is honestly pretty worthless for clones anyway) and Force Sensitivity (1. it's the best ability that any of the players will get ever, 2. I don't like having Force-sensitive clone troopers at all). Clones are, to me, best as an army of mundane badasses who don't need "special things" like the Force.

I also don't care for the idea of 15s across the board for stats, it feels like it's just a bland +2 modifier across the board rather than actually reflecting the capabilities of the clones, and certain characters benefit a lot more from getting 15s in every stat than others (such as the aforementioned Force Sensitive clone, who just hit the jackpot with that array).

[Sparx MacGyver]

I didn't alter the CL from the base of AT-AT. Mostly because I forgot to, so it should be adjusted accordingly.

[LibraryOgre]

All clone trooper game, set during the clone wars. Each player starts at soldier level 3 with stats of 15 across the board and then each player chooses a role, like vanguard, demolitionist, medic, etc, which informs feat/talent choices. Then on top of that each player gets a special ability of some sort. one will be force sensitive, another will be able to rage like a wookie, and other abilities that I still need to figure out/am open to suggestions for. Halfway through the first session they all level up and have total freedom on what to take.

theyd start as a part of a unit of brand new clones being led by a Jedi knight who would encourage them to be individuals and respect them and generally be a good guy.

And then abruptly after they hit 5th level, Order 66. I'll roll against their Will and if they fail they'll be compelled to attack the Jedi, and that's when the game really starts, with them reacting to Order 66 and figuring out what to do afterwards.

I agree with Mando; I'm not crazy about the special abilities, but letting them specialize their characters within the limitations of "Soldier 3" should provide some nice options... especially if you then let them pick up other classes to further diversify themselves. If one wants to be Force sensitive, no problem... they just spend the feats to do so, like any other non-Jedi force sensitive. If one wants to build into a Jedi, let them, under the tutelage of their Jedi leader.

And then, soon after level 5, you have Order 66 hit. And it might hit the jedi clone, too, or it might not. It would be a good chance to look at the effects of Order 66 on the clones.

[Jallorn]

Would it be reasonable to disregard most of the class skill limitations? By most I mean all but UTF. I very much feel like the number of skills one can have (and the expense of a whole feat to get more) is sufficient for creating variance between skilled classes and unskilled, but I wanted a second opinion.

[Sparx MacGyver]

An option to get a few more skills is to use the Backgrounds system instead of destiney points. Nifty way for Noble ti pick up mechanics, and likewise for others.

[Mando Knight]

An option to get a few more skills is to use the Backgrounds system instead of destiney points. Nifty way for Noble ti pick up mechanics, and likewise for others.

Backgrounds do definitely fit with the idea of specialized training for the clones, and the system as a whole is also a better conceptual fit than Destiny is for clones.

The Soldier skill list is actually fairly good, IMO: the only things that are really missing are Persuasion, Deception, and Stealth, of which most soldiers might find one of the three (if any) specifically useful for their skill set. Also Survival, but that's essentially a Scout-exclusive skill that probably almost never sees use anyway.

[LibraryOgre]

Would it be reasonable to disregard most of the class skill limitations? By most I mean all but UTF. I very much feel like the number of skills one can have (and the expense of a whole feat to get more) is sufficient for creating variance between skilled classes and unskilled, but I wanted a second opinion.

It was this that led to my classless variant.

[Jallorn]

It was this that led to my classless variant.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one.

[LibraryOgre]

When talking SAGA, you've very much got a parity between feats, talents, and class features... there aren't many of the one that couldn't reasonably be made the other.

[Jayngfet]

The thing about class features is that they're really poorly implemented half the time. Like Tech Spec is a noble bonus feat but it's not something a noble can start out trained in so it's multiclass fodder at best. Then there's the fact that a couple of jedi levels are effectively meaningless since you need like five jedi levels to match a basic youngling but a two level dip at midlevel makes you as good as half the knights anyway.

Then you have stuff like tech spec which could be broken into multiple feats and be worthwhile, so any skill monkey will take them de facto because you can basically do anything and the only deciding factor is credits, and junk blasters from enemy grunts or wrecked ships will cover the parts costs cost anyway.

I mean lets get real, nobody with a brain starts in say, Noble. Because Noble's advanced stuff is geared towards officer or engineer stuff the base class doesn't even cover and beginning with Soldier or Scoundrel will get you half the prereqs for any prestige class or talent tree anyway.

[LibraryOgre]

Which is solved by using the classless rules.

[Forderz]

Is dawn of defiance considered a good module around these parts? I'm having a ton of trouble enjoying it.

There's some background: I know jack and **** about Star Wars beyond the films and chuckling at Red Letter Media's takedown of the prequels. I also know nothing about the Saga system.When making my character, I decided on playing a rich industrialist with imperial (small i) tendencies. (I called the felucians tribals and constantly criticised their insular, backwards culture)

That pretty much screamed Noble to me, but I needed mechanics to qualify for tech specialist, so I did a one level dip for Scoundrel at first level, then Noble with Wealth for second.

I have attempted to resolve as many conflicts as peacefully as possible, which hasn't gone well as the majority of my companions are typical murderhobos that refuse to put their weapons away and such. Even in scenarios that don't erupt in violence from my allies' actions, enemies seem very quick to shoot first. The surrender ability nobles have is insufficient in getting obviously outclassed thugs/bought cops/two bit smugglers/****ty stormtroopers to lay down their arms, as fights seem to be more of a binary alive/dead affair, and mass surrender seems to be outside the mechanics purview.

Dawn of Defiance also insults my intelligence far too readily. Elaborate plans to infiltrate a guarded installation via primitive gliders are superseded by a trite ventilation duct, and burly allies were offered a security job with zero background checks at a casino hosting a galactic gambling tournament. Guards refuse bribes of triple their yearly salary.

Is this just a thematic issue, or a DMing one? I've played with this DM for a few years now and haven't had such constraints before, even with pregened modules.

Also, Dark Side Points seem entirely arbitrary as written. Taking control of a turret and using it on unsuspecting guards outside the place you're breaking out of is sound tactics, not monstrously attacking helpless targets.

And, this is entirely a minor pet peeve, why on earth do all rolls of a twenty automatically crit? A two bit stormtrooper that can't hit our Jedi without a 20 deals double damage or nothing at all.

[Sith_Happens]

Sounds a lot like Your GM's Having a Bout of Crazy to me.

[Renewal]

So I'm putting together my first Saga campaign for my group. I think I've got most of the system down, since we'll be sticking to Core, and I'm fairly confident that I can improv and wing it if worse comes to worst. Just one sticking point: how effective are solo, high-level enemies as "bosses"? My plan is to have the party of four eventually face a Sith Lord (or rather, a level-appropriate would-be Sith Lord with levels in Jedi) as the final battle of the campaign.

My group's familiar with D&D 4e and 5e, and epic solo battles usually either wrecked us or we steamrolled right over them, the enemy being too overpowered in the former case and too overwhelmed by the action economy in the latter. Are battles against a single enemy with a CL that's two, three levels higher than the average level of a party of four viable? Or am I going to need to go a little bit further and make the fight a little bigger with reinforcements and other stuff spicing up the would-be duel?

[rmg22893]

So I'm in a SW Saga game right now, and I'm playing a character who is a force-user, but is trying to keep it hidden from everyone. This is complicated by the fact that there is another force-user in the party who is actively trying to train Dark force users. My character is trying to prevent this. How would I go about creating an effective, yet mostly imperceptible force saboteur of sorts, while being able to possibly have to go against a telekinetic force wizard later on? Right now I am:

Human Noble 2
Force Sensitivity
Force Training (Rebuke, Negate Energy, Mind Trick, Sever Force)
Skill Focus: UtF

Agent of Ossus Talent tree: Buried Presence

I was thinking taking Force Adept at level 8, and going the telepathy tree, so I could sort of telepathically retrain any apprentices the Dark force user in the party decides to take on. Dominate Mind, probably pick up Mind Shard and Thought Bomb, Technometry etc. later on so I can actually do stuff without being super overt.

Any other suggestions?