How Belkar will die...

[Arcuriel]

A theory regarding the manner in which Belkar Bitterleaf, the chaotic evil halfling rogue|barbarian, will pass from the world of OOTS permanently, as prophecized by the kobold servant of Tiamat referred to as the Oracle (by way of his non-clerical powers gifted by said goddess), and corresponding with recent occurences:

Metaphorically.
...
...
...
Seriously, though, think about how all the other prophecies are being fulfilled (Durkon's, Belkar's proper prophecy, etc.)
Also, Belkar has already implied that he's changed so much he isn't sure who he is anymore. He's ceasing to be who he was, and a single dramatic event (Serini-related, perhaps?) could be the final straw.

[Bad Wolf]

Probably turn into a vampire.

[NerdyKris]

Seriously, though, think about how all the other prophecies are being fulfilled (Durkon's, Belkar's proper prophecy, etc.)

You mean:

Haley not questioning the date with Elan (Looking a gift horse in the mouth), which would have caused her to realize it was Nale and not have the epiphany?

Xykon being exactly where the Oracle said he'd be all three times? Roy is the one who screwed up that prophecy. The Oracle even tried to get him to fix it first.

Belkar killed the Oracle. His question was "Do I get to cause the death of any of the following:". He only had to kill one. He very directly fulfilled that by killing the Oracle, even if the rest don't really count.

Vaarsuvius received complete and total ultimate arcane power (complete spell list, all schools, and a higher caster level than any caster ever) by saying the four right words (I... I must succeed.) to the right being (the Fiend) at the right time (when it happened) for all the wrong reasons. (To prove that magic doesn't fail, as V didn't try any other options)

Seems to me that all the other prophecies have been fulfilled in pretty a clear and to the point manner. Durkon's prophecy hasn't even been fulfilled yet. They aren't in the dwarven lands.

[Mastikator]

It's not uncommon for a sociopath protagonist to turn and promptly die while redeeming themselves. So my guess: he'll foil Durkula's plan and die.

[Fuzzypickles]

I feel like Belkar dying to Durkula would mean we miss out on some interesting character interactions when Durkon gains control of his body again, and realizes that Belkar was the person that was his strongest advocate during the time he was gone. Also, if he dies to Durkula, why wouldn't the party raise him afterwards?

And to me it also just doesn't seem right to have the next big confrontation with Xykon not include all the members of the Order. Maybe this is just wishful thinking because I'm really enjoying Belkar right now and feel like it's too soon to write him out of the story.

[Gloomy_Bloom]

So, if we are talking about Belkar Bitterleaf metaphorically die...
How about this - he will marry soon. And maybe also change his name.

But if he is to die for real, my bet is on true Durkon. You know, such good character as Durkon will take back control only be forced to kill his friend in order to prevent something horrible. Pretty good and dramatic.

[Knewred]

Well, to be fair, we don't actually know that the Oracle was even telling the truth then. It wasn't one of the questions. But I agree that that's probably very unlikely.

I doubt the Giant would remove one of the main characters permanently from the strip though, especially not one as important as Belkar. If Belkar does die, it'll likely be in a way that still allows him to be a member of OOTS while dead (like Durkon, kind of). I'm putting my money on vampire personally- perhaps the fact that he's already evil will allow him to still be himself when he turns? Honestly I'm not completely sure how vampires work, but if that's the case that'd be pretty awesome.

[DeliaP]

So, if we are talking about Belkar Bitterleaf metaphorically die...
How about this - he will marry soon. And maybe also change his name.

But if he is to die for real, my bet is on true Durkon. You know, such good character as Durkon will take back control only be forced to kill his friend in order to prevent something horrible. Pretty good and dramatic.

Ummm... since when was Belkar a freind of Durkon?

Although the route to it is not as clear to me as when I thought Belkar would get dominated by Malack, my bet is still on Roy kills Belkar. In the Interview with a Deva, Roy has two big problems: abandoning Elan to an unknown fate, and his association with Belkar. He's shaped up on how he treats Elan now, but Belkar?

His response to the Deva was to take on the responsibility for Belkar - as Belkar's leader. That responsibility is in part to keep others safe from Belkar, and channel him "towards useful purposes". But he's never really faced up to the second half of being responsible: to be responsible to Belkar, to see him as a person, capable of change, rather than just "a cold blooded monster that we're just managing to control by intangible means until either he escapes or he dies for a cause that isn't his own".

Sure, Roy doesn't know what we know: that Belkar is undergoing an internal change, that started with faking caring, but is gradually turning into something real. But even when faced with external evidence, he's barely even willing to consider the possibility.

His attitude is still "run out the clock" on the prophecy (which he hasn't even chosen to share with anyone apart from Haley) and let Belkar die: it's the easiest way for Belkar to just not be his problem. But he's taken on the responsibility for Belkar as Belkar's leader. That should mean he owes Belkar more loyalty than that, and he's abdicating his responsibility to show it.

So, I think something like Belkar continuing his improvement, then being turned on the Order against his will, with Roy still being forced to kill Belkar after having realised Belkar has changed.... that would be seem fitting to me as a way for Belkar's prophecy to be fulfilled in a way that doesn't let Roy use it as a way to abdicate his responsibility to Belkar. Quite the opposite: Roy suffers for his failure to be responsible to Belkar.

[Killer Angel]

It's not uncommon for a sociopath protagonist to turn and promptly die while redeeming themselves. So my guess: he'll foil Durkula's plan and die.

This. Directly, or undirectly (opening Roy's eyes)

[Keltest]

I find it highly unlikely that Belkar will die until the next book. We still aren't approaching the climax of the overall story with any degree of alacrity.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

(the Fiend)

Overall, I agree with your post, but I believe Word of Giant is that they said those four words to themselves, rather than the fiends.

[NerdyKris]

Whoops. You're right. The "right person" was Vaarsuvius.

[Kish]

Ah good, the last one of these threads was last posted to in April. It would have been a rule violation to bump it. Glad to see people are still making it clear that the surprising twist would be Belkar dying, not Belkar dodging the prophecy somehow.

[Turin_19]

Probably turn into a vampire.

Exactly!

In the Oracle strips, he says 'Belkar will draw his last breath - ever - before the end of the year'.

Now look at this strip:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0982.html

"but they probably have super-sensitive gnome hearing. They noticed two sets of footsteps, eventually they'll notice only one person breathing."

He's said that Belkar won't breath anymore. And now, he says that Vampires don't breath.

Maybe Belkar will become a vampire permanently.

[Keltest]

Exactly!

In the Oracle strips, he says 'Belkar will draw his last breath - ever - before the end of the year'.

Now look at this strip:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0982.html

"but they probably have super-sensitive gnome hearing. They noticed two sets of footsteps, eventually they'll notice only one person breathing."

He's said that Belkar won't breath anymore. And now, he says that Vampires don't breath.

Maybe Belkar will become a vampire permanently.

I doubt it. Such a character would not be Belkar anymore, and the Order would have no reason not to get him resurrected at the same time as Durkon if that were to happen (if nothing else, they certainly aren't going to leave Vampire Belkar running around.)

Honestly, im in the camp that says that Belkar is going to bite it the traditional way, and the Order wont be able to resurrect him for some reason.

[Turin_19]

I doubt it. Such a character would not be Belkar anymore, and the Order would have no reason not to get him resurrected at the same time as Durkon if that were to happen (if nothing else, they certainly aren't going to leave Vampire Belkar running around.)

Honestly, im in the camp that says that Belkar is going to bite it the traditional way, and the Order wont be able to resurrect him for some reason.

You know, I also thought it. But suddenly the Giant drops some hints on exactly the breathing capabilities of a vampire. I couldn't check whether he was drawing the fog out of the mouth of all characters, or all-but-Durkula.

Well, it's just a guess. But suddenly, I think what-could-be-a-hint has been dropped.

[Peelee]

You know, I also thought it. But suddenly the Giant drops some hints on exactly the breathing capabilities of a vampire. I couldn't check whether he was drawing the fog out of the mouth of all characters, or all-but-Durkula.

Well, it's just a guess. But suddenly, I think what-could-be-a-hint has been dropped.

Even assuming that is what happens, as has been stated before, it wouldn't be Belkar. It would be an entirely new character, and Belkar would be dead and not able to do anything.

In other words, the exact opposite of what every Belkar Survivalist hopeful wants.

Besides, the last breath ever bit wasn't the only prophecy for Belkar's end.

[NerdyKris]

I doubt it. Such a character would not be Belkar anymore, and the Order would have no reason not to get him resurrected at the same time as Durkon if that were to happen (if nothing else, they certainly aren't going to leave Vampire Belkar running around.)

Honestly, im in the camp that says that Belkar is going to bite it the traditional way, and the Order wont be able to resurrect him for some reason.

I'm in the camp that says "some reason" is "because he's Belkar". Nothing he does now is going to make up for everything he's done already. No last minute sacrifice is going to convince anyone that he's not still a threat if let off his leash. Nothing he does is going to make Roy say "You know what, I feel like having this albatross hanging around my neck for the rest of my life, let's pay to raise a known murderer."

Also, I agree. We know how vampires work now. Vampire Belkar wouldn't be Belkar, so either way he's dead and gone.

[Silverionmox]

Belkar indeed "is not long for this world", according to the oracle. So we can scrap the Belkula scenario. The only other planes we've seen is the plane of elemental ranch dressing and Xykon's mancave in the Astral plane. So that leaves perhaps a tiny chance of him ending up in Xykon's soul gem, heh.

If he dies by mundane means, it would only make sense for the Order to try to revive him - in particular here a this location that probably has the highest density of NPCs capable of casting resurrection in the world, currently. So that means he'll die in some way where resurrection is impossible... and Redcloak has been known to keep Disintegrate spells in reserve.

And we also know a heroic act of self-sacrifice could be the finishing touch of an alignment change, if that's how the story is going to go. So who's he going to take a disintegration ray in the chest for?

[Yrnes]

Regardless of how Belkar goes, it's important to note the oracle's choice of words. "Belkar drawing his last breath" might imply becoming undead or other "dead-but-still-in-the-comic" scenario.

[Euclidodese]

On Belkar's birthday, when it comes to cutting the cake, he will shove Elan and a few small children out of the way, leaving them all crying, and will gobble the whole thing down too quickly and will choke to death.

This is why The Oracle so wisely tells him to 'savour ' his cake, he and he alone in his mystical perspicacity, sees that eating it frivolously quickly, not stopping to enjoy it's rich flavour and moist moistness will be the death of the young halfling.

[NerdyKris]

If he dies by mundane means, it would only make sense for the Order to try to revive him -

Why? Roy has already expressed that he isn't going to raise Belkar, and that he thinks running out the clock on the prophecy is a good way to handle it. It only makes sense for the Order to leave him dead. He's a known killer and a dangerous psychopath. Even in the illusion they left him dead, meaning none of them think "We can make Belkar change" is a goal they would like to see.

The Order would need a very good reason for raising him and taking on the responsibility of keeping him in line for the rest of their lives. Right now, it looks like all signs point to "They won't actively kill him or let him die by inaction, but they aren't going to raise him if he does die."

[Euclidodese]

Why? Roy has already expressed that he isn't going to raise Belkar, and that he thinks running out the clock on the prophecy is a good way to handle it. It only makes sense for the Order to leave him dead. He's a known killer and a dangerous psychopath. Even in the illusion they left him dead, meaning none of them think "We can make Belkar change" is a goal they would like to see.

The Order would need a very good reason for raising him and taking on the responsibility of keeping him in line for the rest of their lives. Right now, it looks like all signs point to "They won't actively kill him or let him die by inaction, but they aren't going to raise him if he does die."

They have a very good reason: He's a high level ranger, who has (recently) proven his worth excellently, and they're fighting to save the world. (In the illusion, they were not.)
If he dies in The Final Battle, then sure, leave him dead. If it happens before then, they need every tool in the fight against Xykon.

And if there's one thing you can say about The Sexy Shoeless God Of War, then it's that he's a certified G and a bonifide stud, and you can't teach that... But that's not really relevant...
But if there's a second thing, then it's that he's 3 foot tall, and you can't teach that.
But if there's a third thing, it's that he's as hot as hell, and you can't teach that.
But if there's a fourth thing, it's that he's certainly, and undoubtedly a tool.

[Peelee]

Regardless of how Belkar goes, it's important to note the oracle's choice of words. "Belkar drawing his last breath" might imply becoming undead or other "dead-but-still-in-the-comic" scenario.

And the other choices of words? "Not long for this world," "shouldn't bother funding his IRA," "should savor his next birthday cake?"

[D.One]

If he dies by mundane means, it would only make sense for the Order to try to revive him - in particular here a this location that probably has the highest density of NPCs capable of casting resurrection in the world, currently. So that means he'll die in some way where resurrection is impossible... and Redcloak has been known to keep Disintegrate spells in reserve.

Not only Redcloak, I should note. If HPoH indeed has the Death and Destruction Domains, it's worth remembering that Disintegrate is a Destruction Domain 7th level spell to which he would have access.

[Keltest]

Not only Redcloak, I should note. If HPoH indeed has the Death and Destruction Domains, it's worth remembering that Disintegrate is a Destruction Domain 7th level spell to which he would have access.

Disintegrate doesn't actually prevent resurrection though. It makes it easier to dispose of the body in a way that it cant have spells cast on it, but by itself, and especially indoors, death by disintegrate isn't any harder to recover from than death by hole-in-body.

[Rougn]

This is my guess: Belkar tries (or maybe succeeds) at killing Durkula which as we now know because of 994 results in breaking the godsmoot. This will cause Belkar to be killed instantly by the gods. Since it will be pointless for the gods to kill him and then allow his priests to bring him back from the dead they will deny the spell ((much like when they talked about how Thor could have denied durkula weather control but it would have caused war. In this cause all the gods would be in agreement)) and thus durkon can be brough back but not belkar.

[Keltest]

This is my guess: Belkar tries (or maybe succeeds) at killing Durkula which as we now know because of 994 results in breaking the godsmoot. This will cause Belkar to be killed instantly by the gods. Since it will be pointless for the gods to kill him and then allow his priests to bring him back from the dead they will deny the spell ((much like when they talked about how Thor could have denied durkula weather control but it would have caused war. In this cause all the gods would be in agreement)) and thus durkon can be brough back but not belkar.

The thing is, Belkar is not an invited guest and therefore not bound by the rules of the moot. If he were to be executed, it would not be for offending the gods.

[Peelee]

Also, why would the gods themselves kill him, instead of leaving it to their clerics? We have seen the gods actively smite (in the non-D&D sense) someone once, and that was a paladin who had pledged her life to serving them and being beholden to the very highest ideals, and that only after she had betrayed those ideals in the most egregious way.

They don't seem very hands-on, is what I'm saying.

[Keltest]

Also, why would the gods themselves kill him, instead of leaving it to their clerics? We have seen the gods actively smite (in the non-D&D sense) someone once, and that was a paladin who had pledged her life to serving them and being beholden to the very highest ideals, and that only after she had betrayed those ideals in the most egregious way.

They don't seem very hands-on, is what I'm saying.

Twice, actually. We saw Banjo smite Roy once. It was not especially impressive, but it happened.