Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

[PsyBomb]

Alright, Playground, the Gravity Slime Master prestige class has been posted to the Steelforge document.

As to everyone giving feedback here, know that we have been chewing on it pretty hard. I'll make sure to respond to you guys properly soon, but I don't have time to do it justice right now. It is all awesome, though, and much of it is being accounted for.

[Vhaidara]

My friend can vouch for me. This was my response to that post

Still getting over that stage

[Kaidinah]

Alright, Playground, the Gravity Slime Master prestige class has been posted to the Steelforge document.

As to everyone giving feedback here, know that we have been chewing on it pretty hard. I'll make sure to respond to you guys properly soon, but I don't have time to do it justice right now. It is all awesome, though, and much of it is being accounted for.

I definitely like this Slime Master after my first reading of it, and look forward to running it. I think I need to examine it more before I give real feedback, but I do have some preliminary questions and suggestions:

You treat your slime guardian as an eidolon, does this include for the purpose of equipping magical items? As in, if you find a way to gear it up, it takes away from the Slime Master's own magic item slots? How about feats that affect eidolons?

Also, the Impact abilities lack save DCs. I think that instead of defining just the flightbreaker's DC, you should state that all Impact abilities use that DC formula. Currently, the later Impact abilities seem to lack language stating what their DCs are. It is pretty obvious what the intended DCs are, but it never hurts to have clarification.

[PsyBomb]

I definitely like this Slime Master after my first reading of it, and look forward to running it. I think I need to examine it more before I give real feedback, but I do have some preliminary questions and suggestions:

You treat your slime guardian as an eidolon, does this include for the purpose of equipping magical items? As in, if you find a way to gear it up, it takes away from the Slime Master's own magic item slots? How about feats that affect eidolons?

Also, the Impact abilities lack save DCs. I think that instead of defining just the flightbreaker's DC, you should state that all Impact abilities use that DC formula. Currently, the later Impact abilities seem to lack language stating what their DCs are. It is pretty obvious what the intended DCs are, but it never hurts to have clarification.

Shared slots was not intended, I'll make sure to fix that (and thanks for the catch!). Same goes for the Impact save DCs. All of them are supposed to go off the same formula.

[Vhaidara]

So, when do we get a Gravity Slime discipline?

[Extra Anchovies]

Overall, it's a really nice control class. I'm not sure what would be a good base for it, though, since it stands on its own. Maybe some good noncaster like Slayer so you don't lose much in the way of base class features.

I don't think the Gravity Slime Guardian should gain the Reach evolution for its slam. Also, "treat this creature as a medium-sized Eidolon" means that in addition to the free evolutions you get to purchase more with evolution points. You'll want to specify that it doesn't gain any evolution points.

What age category of gravity slime is created by Launch Gravity Slime?

[PsyBomb]

Overall, it's a really nice control class. I'm not sure what would be a good base for it, though, since it stands on its own. Maybe some good noncaster like Slayer so you don't lose much in the way of base class features.

I don't think the Gravity Slime Guardian should gain the Reach evolution for its slam. Also, "treat this creature as a medium-sized Eidolon" means that in addition to the free evolutions you get to purchase more with evolution points. You'll want to specify that it doesn't gain any evolution points.

What age category of gravity slime is created by Launch Gravity Slime?

Specified on the SP thing, you're right in that it wasn't intended to get its own. Age category of the Launched slimes is entirely irrelevant, since they have their own scaling save DCs.

As for what to put it on... literally, the class was not written with anything in mind. I've attempted to sim it on stuff ranging from a Wizard to a Warder.

[Extra Anchovies]

Age category of the Launched slimes is entirely irrelevant, since they have their own scaling save DCs.

Launch Gravity Slime is launching, well, a Gravity Slime, and the base effects of a gravity slime varies by age category:

The effects of Endeca’s gregarious gravity slime last for 2 rounds for larvae, 4 rounds for polyps, and 6 rounds for adults

[PsyBomb]

Launch Gravity Slime is launching, well, a Gravity Slime, and the base effects of a gravity slime varies by age category:

All effects of Impact last for one minute

[Extra Anchovies]

All effects of Impact last for one minute

There's nothing anywhere that says that the normal gravity slime effects don't apply at the same time as the Impacts do. When I said "base effects of a gravity slime" I meant this:

Victims lose all ability to fly; they have no flight speed, are treated as having no ranks in the Fly skill, and cannot hover, leap or levitate any higher than ten feet from the ground. If an affected creature is already flying, the slime cushions their fall and they suffer no damage.

[PsyBomb]

There's nothing anywhere that says that the normal gravity slime effects don't apply at the same time as the Impacts do. When I said "base effects of a gravity slime" I meant this:

Ah, I see the confusion now. My fault for being unclear here (I'll edit the sheet), but that actually comes from the flightbreaker spell and is the level-1 Impact ability. You gain stuff to replace that with as you level.

[Extra Anchovies]

Ah, I see the confusion now. My fault for being unclear here (I'll edit the sheet), but that actually comes from the flightbreaker spell and is the level-1 Impact ability. You gain stuff to replace that with as you level.

Hm. You might want to say that Impact replaces the normal gravity slime effect; otherwise it seems to me like a target would save once against the gravity slime's normal ability, and then save a second time against the impact effect.

[PsyBomb]

Hm. You might want to say that Impact replaces the normal gravity slime effect; otherwise it seems to me like a target would save once against the gravity slime's normal ability, and then save a second time against the impact effect.

Wrote it into the Launch ability, but done. Thanks again for pointing it out, and sorry I didn't get the point quicker.

[unseenmage]

Forgive me if this question is ill conceived but what percentage of the final product is/could be unveiled in this thread vs what will/could appear in the final product?


And as a bonus question, what if I have almost an entire monster manual worth of creatures homebrewed up from years of playing 3.x and was interested in converting them to PF and sharing them with the community? Any way I can do that in an official or semiofficial capacity?



I'm loving what you folks are putting together here. And the fact that the community gets to help shape the content is fantastic.

[Elricaltovilla]

I've added some new material. Poison Inverting Mask, new special materials Ironwood and Glass Steel, and a new mundane item in the Sparking Sheath.

[PsyBomb]

Forgive me if this question is ill conceived but what percentage of the final product is/could be unveiled in this thread vs what will/could appear in the final product? .

Intended page count of the final product is 80+, the playtest document is currently sitting at 31. Trust me, there is a LOT of stuff to come, and just about all of it will be put up into the document for testing and proofing. Open betas make for better stuff, after all.

Unfortunately, I can't really speak to the chances on the rest of the post, so I won't venture.

[Prime32]

How does the Poison Inverting Mask interact with Siphon Poison, pick your poison, Reject Poison and Developed Poison Immunity?

According to the rules for multiple doses of poison, you should be able to extend the mask's effects indefinitely by constantly exposing yourself to the type of poison inserted into it (though this might require immunity to ability damage).

[Kymera]

I like the theme and feel of the gravity slime master, but as it stands now, the companion has severe scaling issues, and wil at best only be combat relevant for a couple of levels out of its master‘s entire career. When first gotten, it's a 2HD companion in (at least) level 6 fights; pretty much everything will be able to one-shot it without expending meaningful resources, it's only real defense is that it can't do anything that an enemy cares that it did, but that won't save it from AoE attacks. It faces a similar problem at level 20, where a companion that hasn't improved in the slightest since its master was level 10 is now facing level 20 challenges. Even in the best-case scenario (enter PrC at 6, complete it at 10), the companion is only really level-appropriate in its combat stats from levels 9 through 11, and is at least somewhat relevant in a fight maybe as early as 8 or as late as 12, optimistically.

[Elricaltovilla]

New weapon enchantment added: Cushioning.

Spoiler: SHHHHH It's a Secret

Show

Cushioning
Price: +2 Bonus
Aura: moderate evocation
Description: Cushioning weapons often see use as training implements used among the more destructive martial arts as a cost saving effort. These weapons exude a magical gel which clings to equipment, rendering it useless for an extended period of time but also protecting the item from being completely destroyed by violent action. It found popularity among certain professions that involve frequently killing people and taking their stuff. When a cushioning weapon is used to sunder an item and applies the broken condition to that item, the condition only lasts for 10 minutes, after which the item reverts to its fully repaired state. In addition, a cushioning weapon’s enhancement bonus can be applied to any sunder attempt the wielder makes.

Construction and Requirements: Craft Magical Arms and Armor, shatter, mending; Cost: +2 bonus.

[MilleniaAntares]

Enhancement bonuses already apply to sunder CMB.

Maybe you can have it double the enhancement bonus instead?

[Elricaltovilla]

Enhancement bonuses already apply to sunder CMB.

Maybe you can have it double the enhancement bonus instead?

If it already applies I'm likely to just remove that line for being unnecessary reminder text. It's pretty arbitrary which combat maneuvers get the benefits of enhancement bonus and which don't, and since I'm lazy I tend to just add it to all of them.

[Mithril Leaf]

It might just be me, but Spiritbound weapons seem objectively inferior to Essence Forged ones from the Supplemental release. Just figured I should mention it.

[PsyBomb]

It might just be me, but Spiritbound weapons seem objectively inferior to Essence Forged ones from the Supplemental release. Just figured I should mention it.

Essence forged weapons are superior in many ways... but not all. It's a fight between essence efficiency and enhancement variety.

[MilleniaAntares]

If it already applies I'm likely to just remove that line for being unnecessary reminder text. It's pretty arbitrary which combat maneuvers get the benefits of enhancement bonus and which don't, and since I'm lazy I tend to just add it to all of them.

On a personal basis I tend to use the FAQ/errata for Weapon Finesse, specifically this sentence: "Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses apply to the roll."

[Mithril Leaf]

Essence forged weapons are superior in many ways... but not all. It's a fight between essence efficiency and enhancement variety.

If it were in your optimization guide for Akashic Mysteries, would you more likely suggest that people purchase one over the other? Maybe there should be some additional reasons to choose a generally worse one.

[PsyBomb]

If it were in your optimization guide for Akashic Mysteries, would you more likely suggest that people purchase one over the other? Maybe there should be some additional reasons to choose a generally worse one.

You choose based on investment and desired properties. If you can bind to Shoulders eventually and like the weapon arranged +5/+5, you will ALWAYS pick essence-forged. If one of these is not true, they are near-equal. If both aren't, you'll like Spiritbound.

Essence-forged gains a lot in situations with tight WBL, though (a TWF Guru, for example, will usually prefer to invest an extra feat to unlock shoulders than the enormous expense of fully enhancing two weapons).

[AmberVael]

I decided to give the document a run through and get out my thoughts. I do want to clarify that I've only recently begun to get into Pathfinder, so if there is a Pathfinder specific quirk that would throw off my reasoning, that's why.

Spoiler

Show

Girdle of Protection, Carapace of Natural Armor and Co.
So, on one hand, I think its useful to have a quick write up of these items. On the other hand I think the increased cost is a mistake. While the cost markup is in the rules of both 3.5 and Pathfinder, I've never found them to actually have any positive impact on the game. In the Magic Item Compendium they basically did away with those rules entirely with their 'Common Item Effects' rules and the impact was a really good one- people could still get the common magical effects they needed, while not giving up item slots for more interesting effects and items.
I can understand not wanting to go the full way of the Magic Item Compendium and just allow these effects to basically be unslotted, but I think the 50% price increase is a mistake. All it really does is punish someone who wants a slightly different item setup, and there's not really a balance reason for doing so. Taking up a slot is what provides the balance, not necessarily which slot it takes up.
Suffice to say, while the current pricing plays to the base rules of the game, there's something to be said for acknowledging a mistake and moving past it. And this mistake was kinda already acknowledged years ago by WotC.

Firesight Eyes
What these eyes are supposed to do is really obvious. While you wear them, you can see people. If you want to be a RAW abusing buttface though, I think you can make the argument that it reveals outlined creatures to everyone. Yeah, it says only you can see the outline, but you don't need to see the outline for someone to be outlined, right? And its being outlined that makes you visible. So I dunno, maybe tweak the wording a little. Maybe just throw in the phrase "in regards to you?" Bit clunky, there's probably a better way to do it, but that would definitely close any stupid sneaky loophole.
Also I want to agree that the name is pretty great.

Steelwalker Boots
I like this item, and I find the use of Staggered as a deterrent to be an interesting alternative to uses per day or per encounter. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it, but I think its an idea worth exploring (especially since I despise the per day paradigm). I wonder about the price, but honestly I couldn't say if it is too much or too little, since its both much more expensive than the short distance travel items I'm used to, yet also a lot more versatile and freely usable.

Headless Helm
I'm not sure if this is a reference to Harry Potter or Celty. Either way (or both?), I approve.
The effect is pretty interesting.

Helm of Lost Flesh
I'd discourage the last two effects of keeping this on so long. 3d6 con damage is probably where I'd leave it- that's risky enough for most characters. Maybe keep the death consequence if someone wears it for something like a month, just for the potential plot or weird enemy shenanigans? That way it'd be near impossible for a player to get hit with unavoidable death unless they wanted to deal with that consequence. I don't honestly see this coming up so much, but it seems unnecessary to have it in the first place and it makes me leery to see it.

Angelwing Cloak
"I'm absolutely trustworthy!" Shouts the guy wearing torn off angel wings dripping with blood.
Somehow, no one believed him.

Rings of Bound Loyalty
Well that's freaking creepy. Maybe make it more obvious in the price line that the price is for a pair? Just to make absolutely sure there's no confusion. I wish I could say I was confident that the line in the item text would be enough, but experience has taught me to not be that confident.

Chess Pieces of the Astral Army
This is going to end in the most expensive (and most awesome) chess game ever played.

Emet Tablet
I don't think this item will see use. Its a one shot item (ew), it only affects a very specific group of enemies (double ew), the effect is good but not crazy, and 2000 gold isn't a small amount of money to throw at a one shot item. I think something would need to change to make it viable.

Endeca’s Gregarious Gravity Slime
...you people are weird.
I think I'd either design this as a multiuse item, or a limited use item. The fact that it both regenerates and can easily be permanently destroyed kinda bothers me. I'd probably just say it can regenerate even from tiny scraps. I also might consider having the larger ones regenerate at a little bit faster rate.

Slip Grenades
This makes me think of Legacy of the Void adepts.
I want Psionic Transfer to be a thing in D&D now.

Bearded (Weapon)
So upon seeing this level of pun, I have to ask how many of you are fathers.

Exploding (Weapon)
You may wish to clarify whether the wielder of the Exploding weapon would also take damage if they're adjacent, just to make it perfectly clear. Given the goblin theme, I'm assuming they do.

Morphing (Weapon)
It strikes me that the wording is such that Morphing can benefit from any weapon specific feat. Regardless of what weapon it was forged as, or even can change into- a morphing weapon that can become any light weapon can still benefit from Weapon Focus (The Biggest And Most Implausible Of Buster Swords). That doesn't seem quite right, but I'm not quite sure if it was or was not intended, or what WAS intended.

Skinning (Weapon)
Ow.
Maybe clarify the action on that Heal check? How long a heal check takes differs, after all, and this isn't a normal use of heal.

Spell Echoing (Weapon)
Wow. Being able to double your spell slots/power points is quite a strong option, even if this has limitations. Certainly a must have for any gish or any caster who can use weapons. Possibly even makes it worth it for casters to make sure they can use weapons. This might be too strong for its effect, especially since its impossible to waste the stored spell-echo (since it only casts on a successful hit).
But I'm also uncertain if I'm even reading this right. Is it that it casts a second iteration of the spell, or that it just allows you to spend another spell slot or more power points to cast the spell again when you hit someone? That would also make sense, but isn't quite what the wording seems to imply.
This probably needs some clearing up and clarification.

Locations of Power
There are not enough locations. GIVE ME MORE. FEEEED MEEEEE.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

There is a similar enchantment to morphing, Transformative, already in existence. What it does is quite different, though.

[Roadie]

I find myself now wondering how many male characters will end up wearing corsets just to optimize their equipment slots.

[Tuvarkz]

I find myself now wondering how many male characters will end up wearing corsets just to optimize their equipment slots.

I've already been getting Corsets of Delicate Moves for my initiator characters, provoking a general reaction of people laughing at the concept of manly half-orcs taking out their armor to reveal a corset behind it.