Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest

[stack]

Angelwing cloak - you may detect as lawful good, but won't the bloody feathers and dripping blood raise questions? Especially when anyone the blood is applied to suddenly detects as evil? How do multiple 'detect as...' effects stack, highest CL wins?

Magecatcher net is interesting. Have to look into net-centric builds. Any chance of applying the same abilities to a lasso? I'm thinking of the divine lariat archetype for the mageknight.
...

Charming armor seems expensive for its DC. Even +5 light armor is only DC 16, which isn't impressive by the time you can afford a +7 equivalent piece of armor. Maybe a flat cost instead?

Shining - once a day with a weak DC? Maybe a flat cost, never as a +X bonus. Even then, it would have to be cheap.

Spell echoing seems really nasty for certain builds. Like a staff magus with spell echoing/spell storing on each end of their staff. Not sure if its too powerful, but I can't imagine a magus or eldritch knight not wanting it.

Still puzzled on the usage limit for cannibalize construct. You have limited constructs and can't make more for two minutes, what possible need is there for a use/day limit on the ability?

"Construct Army A manufacturer of 20th level has made an immense breathrough: he has learned to make and control multiple constructs. As a standard action, he may make his first construct in an encounter. Every additional construct thereafter takes a full-round action. The duration expires on all astral constructs simultaneously - thus the countdown begins with the first construct’s duration."
What does this do? Is it allowing you to make constructs without dipping into your uses per day? If so, it needs to be clear on that point. If its just a casting speed reduction, I would rather see that much earlier.

On that note, at level 1 a 1-round manifesting time on astral construct for 1 rnd duration is terrible, making your core ability fairly lousy until you get a few levels. I would rather see some kind of extending ability at first level and at 5th give a reduction in casting time (full round instead of 1 round, maybe later scale to standard).
...

I don't think I have seen a response to my previous comments. I edited out the parts Psybomb covered, I believe.

[Kaidinah]

Probably late on this, but I really like the changes to Gravity Slime Master. The Slime Guardian got considerably beefier since I last checked. I do have some concerns and questions though.

The 5th level Impact ability is a 1 minute paralysis, which in itself is very mighty. At the same time, every time they use Launch Gravity Slime, they send out 3 of these 1 minute paralysis slimes, and can do this 5 times per encounter. If targeting one person, any of these 3 that miss can also whip around and try again alongside the next 3 you send out. This is also besides the fact that you have already Weapon Slimed your entire party's weapons and arrows and have a slime guardian also distributing Impact. Even as a fort save, with that much of it going around, failed saves will probably be happening often.

Paralysis seems like a very large jump in power from Slow, which was just 1 level ago. I would suggest finding a new status effect, and not one that allows someone to be coup de graced. Also, try not to make it so much better than energy stun, which is a pretty darn good psionic power with a similar role.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Nauseated maybe?

[PsyBomb]

Nauseated maybe?

Looking into this. 1-minute stun at level 10 is a hair early, yes, though I'm not sure if I'm going to change the status or just make the duration one round instead.

In other, semi-related stuff...

Alright, so I'm debating a couple of points and wanted to see if I could grab some quick feedback. So, here I go...

1) Potential shift to Forgelord's prior-class boost to 2/3/4 instead of 1/3/5. I've gotten the feedback a lot that basically anyone with Craft Wondrous will dip one level essentially for free, which is a concern.

2) Would a Legendary Item that originally appears as a Repeating Crossbow ever be used? I'm cooking one up, but I don't want the price of entry to be THAT far out of people's way... but I also really don't want to write for firearms.

3) I want to create a Spheres-Initiator crossover item like I did for the other subsystems. I'm just /really/ lost in finding a point where they can intersect. Looking for possible ideas for places to start.

4) More of a general question, Is there anything you've seen and thought "there should be an item for that...", but couldn't find one? It's what we're here for, so fire away.

Thanks in advance for any responses here.

[Extra Anchovies]

Looking into this. 1-minute stun at level 10 is a hair early, yes, though I'm not sure if I'm going to change the status or just make the duration one round instead.

It would be better to make it last 1 round.

1) Potential shift to Forgelord's prior-class boost to 2/3/4 instead of 1/3/5. I've gotten the feedback a lot that basically anyone with Craft Wondrous will dip one level essentially for free, which is a concern.

Nothing that gives +1 level of existing class features should do so at 1st level. Advancement at 2/3/4 would be much better than 1/3/5.

2) Would a Legendary Item that originally appears as a Repeating Crossbow ever be used? I'm cooking one up, but I don't want the price of entry to be THAT far out of people's way... but I also really don't want to write for firearms.

When was the last time that you used a repeating crossbow in one of your games? The only time I've ever used one was back in middle school, before I realized that rapid reload existed.

If you're going to make an exotic legendary weapon, make it a good one. Which you can't, really, because there aren't any Paizo exotic weapons worth using (except maybe the Falcata for 20th-level fighters). The only times I use exotic weapons are when I get the feat for free, because they took the only 3.5 exotic weapon worth paying for (the spiked chain) and gutted it.

3) I want to create a Spheres-Initiator crossover item like I did for the other subsystems. I'm just /really/ lost in finding a point where they can intersect. Looking for possible ideas for places to start.

An idea that springs to mind is being able to spend a spell point to spontaneously recover some maneuvers (1 level of maneuvers per sphere caster level, maybe), but that would be much better handled with a feat. It would have to be a spheres -> initiating item, though, because any initiating -> spheres item is inherently overpowered due to A) maneuvers being accessible via feats and B) the unlimited-use nature of initiating compared to the limited-use nature of Spheres.

Oh, I know! Maybe you could sacrifice one of your daily maneuvers readied slots for a spell point!
Except even that wouldn't work, because it would break hard on a Mystic.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I've only used a repeating crossbow on an inquisitor for PFS. Mostly because they got automatic proficiency and I wanted to use it, but still.

[Anlashok]

Which you can't, really, because there aren't any Paizo exotic weapons worth using

Dunno, I see the flying talon, branch spear, curve blade, minotaur double crossbow, chainsaw, most of the energy rifles and the plasma thrower all get some decent mileage out of them.

[Kaidinah]

Looking into this. 1-minute stun at level 10 is a hair early, yes, though I'm not sure if I'm going to change the status or just make the duration one round instead.

It's a 1 minute paralyze on the Slime Master right now actually. I was just comparing it to energy stun to give a power comparison, since its an AOE power that deals more damage, but has a much weaker status effect. Similar role overall.

Alright, so I'm debating a couple of points and wanted to see if I could grab some quick feedback. So, here I go...

1) Potential shift to Forgelord's prior-class boost to 2/3/4 instead of 1/3/5. I've gotten the feedback a lot that basically anyone with Craft Wondrous will dip one level essentially for free, which is a concern.

2) Would a Legendary Item that originally appears as a Repeating Crossbow ever be used? I'm cooking one up, but I don't want the price of entry to be THAT far out of people's way... but I also really don't want to write for firearms.

3) I want to create a Spheres-Initiator crossover item like I did for the other subsystems. I'm just /really/ lost in finding a point where they can intersect. Looking for possible ideas for places to start.

4) More of a general question, Is there anything you've seen and thought "there should be an item for that...", but couldn't find one? It's what we're here for, so fire away.

Thanks in advance for any responses here.

1. This is a very fair concern. I think that moving it to 2/3/4 is a fine idea. Even without the additional level, the 5th level bonuses of the class are worth it.

2. I think it would be used as long as it had a way to circumvent a few of the crossbow flaws. A Forgemaster gets past its Exotic Weapon Proficiency flaw with attunement, and there are a few classes that come with Repeating crossbow proficiency. The biggest flaw, which I think the Crossbow should address is the damage. If the damage is made viable, the players will come.

3. I think the point of interaction should be the action economy. Spheres competes with Initiating action-wise.

4. Got nothing for now.

[TiaC]

3. I think the point of interaction should be the action economy. Spheres competes with Initiating action-wise.

Perhaps some way of using maneuvers to maintain Concentration-length sphere abilities?

[khadgar567]

really like to see repeating crossbow able to make rabid fire bolts( 10 bolts in 2 seconds( maybe in one turn)) is always good for any ranged build

[stack]

Spell point for max augmentation on en elemental flux or sleeping goddess maneuver in place of flux/pp? Expend a boost to not provoke when casting?

[unseenmage]

As someone playing through the Iron Gods adventure path right now I find myself wondering, will there be any Technological items or Other Worlds items in this publication or would that be an entirely different book?

[Drrakerr]

As for items I've wanted is would be some kind of already made item to replace the camera-in-a harness-strapped-to-my-hawk-familiar for low profile aerial surveillance that I threw together in my last magi-tech campaign that I played. The success rate was... varied, but the idea behind it was sound. Maybe a Helm that links to some kind of collar that you can swap you vision to? Maybe choose to see either from your eyes or through the connected item. An upgraded version could even be a pair of helms that allow you to see from each others perspective, with some kind of two way message spell tacked on as well. Would be stellar for more stealth oriented play styles.

[Milo v3]

As someone playing through the Iron Gods adventure path right now I find myself wondering, will there be any Technological items or Other Worlds items in this publication or would that be an entirely different book?

Sslarn was working on a book called Psitech that had technology guide style stuff for things like psionics and "possibly" akasha.

[Ssalarn]

Sslarn was working on a book called Psitech that had technology guide style stuff for things like psionics and "possibly" akasha.

And Psitech is coming out very soon. With AM wrapped on my end, Andreas and I will be doing a last review of the Psitech materials next week before rolling out the playtest.

[Milo v3]

And Psitech is coming out very soon. With AM wrapped on my end, Andreas and I will be doing a last review of the Psitech materials next week before rolling out the playtest.

Oh cool. Can't wait to see that mecha class.

[PsyBomb]

Quickie update:

Crossbows sucking as hard as they do is something I've heard often, so I decided to do something about it in Steelforge. Check out the Autoloader Magazine, just added it to the Playtest Document. Should help things out for those of you wanting to use this under-represented combat style.

[Mithril Leaf]

Quickie update:

Crossbows sucking as hard as they do is something I've heard often, so I decided to do something about it in Steelforge. Check out the Autoloader Magazine, just added it to the Playtest Document. Should help things out for those of you wanting to use this under-represented combat style.

Can we have the capacity scale as well as the production? Also do we need to actually use any action to reload it in a repeating crossbow?

[PsyBomb]

Can we have the capacity scale as well as the production? Also do we need to actually use any action to reload it in a repeating crossbow?

20-round capacity is already going to hold enough for 6-7 rounds of combat assuming a Greater Magazine and standing 5-shot full attacks (7 assumes you don't use up extra ammo via Snap Shot or similar). I could make it scale 10/20/30, but there isn't too much reason to.

Repeating Crossbow won't have its action types modified. Magazine swap is a set action type, and the bolt-reload is already Free and won't be reduced.

[Extra Anchovies]

Autoloader Magazine looks pretty good. It's basically Rapid Reload: The Item, plus a constant abundant ammunition. I'm a bit wary about it copying magical effects, though (especially for its price), because I'm always wary of anything that enables Named Bullet cloning.

[Swaoeaeieu]

i like the autoloader. reducing the reload action is really usefull. shame there still isnt a way to not need the free hand so we can dual wield like a baws

[AnonymousPepper]

I do have a concern, reading the document in the OP, and I apologize if I've missed it being said somewhere else throughout the thread.

The refinement charms of health are pretty cheap for what they do already - 14k total for necklace, bracelet, and full sets of the charms grant an untyped +40HP, the equivalent of a +4 CON booster (16k, enhancement bonus) at 20th level, or a +8(!!!) at 10th (and very easily doable within WBL there, especially if self-crafted), with the only downside being not gaining actual CON points.

But consider that making them slotless would have ultimately trivial cost - the price would go up to 18k for another 40HP - and stay that way forever, rapidly outpacing any other method of gaining HP.

For a low-HP class like a primary caster, that is a fantastic investment to make, and I could see a wizard buying two or three sets starting at 20th level for 120 bonus HP that stacks with alllllll her other bonuses, probably effectively doubling or even tripling her HP for an ultimately relatively trivial sum. Maybe even more.

Is that the absolute best way to spend the money? Probably not. Hell, depending on your class, other refinement charms might be better uses.

Is it still pretty open to abuse? Absolutely.

I might want to suggest limiting the number of refinement charms of a given type that can function on a single person to twenty, or if you want to be stricter about it, add in wording preventing the necklace and bracelet from being made slotless as they normally could by the explicit item creation rules, or making it much more expensive to do so.

Because who wouldn't at least pay 14k once for +40HP, totally untyped?

[Mehangel]

+40 HP is not the same as +4 CON, for one increases of CON will increase ones FORT Save aswell. So I dont think it is really an issue.

[PsyBomb]

Autoloader Magazine looks pretty good. It's basically Rapid Reload: The Item, plus a constant abundant ammunition. I'm a bit wary about it copying magical effects, though (especially for its price), because I'm always wary of anything that enables Named Bullet cloning.

This is an extremely good point, and I am adding a note that will exclude temporary magical effects. I want crossbows to be viable, not the overwhelmingly best option.

[AnonymousPepper]

+40 HP is not the same as +4 CON, for one increases of CON will increase ones FORT Save aswell. So I dont think it is really an issue.

Yeah, but that's 40HP that can be cheaply stacked forever. On top of a CON booster and a save booster, if you're worried about your fort save.

[PsyBomb]

Yeah, but that's 40HP that can be cheaply stacked forever. On top of a CON booster and a save booster, if you're worried about your fort save.

I'll add a note somewhere to prevent a character from having access to more than 20 Charm slots. Forgot about enterprising players basically making Ioun Charm Bracelets if not prevented.

[AnonymousPepper]

I'll add a note somewhere to prevent a character from having access to more than 20 Charm slots. Forgot about enterprising players basically making Ioun Charm Bracelets if not prevented.

I mean, I'd totally do it. I play Artificers for fun. >_>

I'm sorry if I'm giving you more work, I just noticed that was a thing that could be done.

[PsyBomb]

I mean, I'd totally do it. I play Artificers for fun. >_>

I'm sorry if I'm giving you more work, I just noticed that was a thing that could be done.

Don't apologize! I'd rather add a sentence or two to the document now rather than find out I've written an abusable loophole.

[ElderLucian]

Swiftshot’s Winder
Weight: 8lbs; Price 400gp

This clockwork device is made of a reinforced iron body, loaded with heavy springs and fine armatures. It is designed to be attached to a medium or small light or heavy crossbow, usually via leather straps. The winder takes a full round action and both hands to be fully wound. Once wound the winder reduces the reload time for the attached weapon by one step (a full round action is reduced to a move action, and a move action is reduced to a free action). Three rounds after the crossbow is first fired, the winder ceases to function and the crossbow cannot be reloaded normally until it is wound back up.
Reloading in this way still provokes an attack of opportunity. Attaching and removing the winder takes a full-round action.

If the winder reduces the reload time to a free action, you may fire that weapon as many times in a full-attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow.

Seems to be missing standard and swift actions

[Abithrios]

Seems to be missing standard and swift actions

So did paizo in the rapid reload feat.