Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

[Regitnui]

Eberron (thankfully) has a place for them automatically; Lammania, the wild plane where most lycanthropes fled. Thelanis, or the "feywild" on less-civilized worlds, is also another place to put Centuars if you can't include them.

The thing about Centaurs is that they're plains animals. Humans and horses both evolved to run on the grasslands, and so it's logical a creature made of both would have a similar habitat. However, though Centaurs are plains animals, they're nomads. Along with being slightly weaker than an equivalent level humanoid/goblinoid, that could have driven them to extinction in most campaign worlds as their migration routes were disturbed and cut off by developing civilisations, who then see the centaurs as invaders.

Where they're not extinct, they're driven to the edge of civilized life, struggling to survive in forests or other ill-suited habitats. In these worlds, they're a dying race. Eberron is one of these worlds, where they have fled to other near-material planes where civilisation couldn't spread. The feywild, arborea (I think) and other similar planes now give them refuge.

[mephnick]

Basically just use them like Naanomi, if I use them at all, as nomadic barbarian tribes. Think the centaurs in WoW's Barrens.

But generally I find more interesting races to use as nomads, so they often don't make the cut.

[Nifft]

I think I've never used one either.

Gotta correct that somehow.

The big issue is that, yeah, they're less interesting than generic horse-nomad barbarian humans.

Putting it together... I guess I could take the mythology, that they're people who mystically intermix with horses, and just let that be true. So they crop up in horse-nomad tribes for unexplained reasons, and they're basically some kind of oracular divine gift to their nomadic tribe, plus they're good at horse-skirmisher stuff (hunting & scouting), and there's good reason to fight one if you're in a barbarian horse-nomad location (along with a bunch of other horse-nomad barbarians as support).

Not sure if they should be a proper new species which can breed true, or just one-off oddities and leave the breeding unaddressed because sex in games is generally problematic.

[JackPhoenix]

I used a different fluff: Centaurs aren't a natural race, but like many other human/animal hybrids, were created by ancient civilisation as a sort of specialist supersoldiers, in this case cavalry. After the civilisation crumbled (they always do), they were left to roam free. Harpies were created as scouts/air force, minotaurs as heavy infantry, gnolls (wolf or dog rather then hyena based) were general combatants, sahuagin were marines.

Newer installments of Heroes of Might and Magic use similar approach, mixing humans and demons (nightmares in centaurs case according to HoMaM 5) or animals (according to HoMaM 6) to create centaurs, harpies, minotaurs, gnolls and most importantly, orcs, goblins and cyclopses.

[Tallis]

I think I may have had a random encounter with centaurs once long ago. Otherwise never used them or met them.
If I were to use them I think they'd be something like the Mongols: nomadic plains dwellers (because forest habitat makes no sense). Small bands might wander into the main campaign region occasionally but most of them never come near civilization.
As a plot hook maybe one of those wandering bands got hold of the macguffin and are now heading home. The PCs must track them down to get it back.

[Shining Wrath]

I've moved centaurs out onto the windswept plains south of the main human / elven lands, and they are a dominant force, competing with human and orcish horse-riding tribes for prime hunting lands. One of the main historical pivot points was a bad guy uniting many of the plains tribes into a Horde and raiding into the settled lands; centaurs were not immune to his blandishments, and some of the tribes joined the Horde. One of the elven lands is only kept from being overrun by their enemies because a benign centaur tribe holds their southern flank - for now.

So while I agree they have no place in a forest, they are very useful to me as "people who can control a huge swath of territory without a "civilization" as it is usually understood".

[Eldan]

I like those magical ideas some people are suggesting here. How about a nomadic horseback culture where the greatest warriors are ritually fused with their horses?

[MrConsideration]

My own setting's Mongol analogue are the Steppe Elves; who are a nation of nomadic warrior-elves who write their spells on the banners they ride into battle with, and use the actual Mongol tactics (moving enormously quickly between regions to give the impression of a larger force, mounted archery to destroy conventional forces, scorched earth tactics, a martial culture hat demands everyone have fighting ability, quickly assimilating defeated peoples into Steppe Elf culture and the psychological impact of their terror) combined with their magical advantages (when they pillage a town, they raise the population as Ghouls. They use Control Weather and Fog to mislead their enemies...) to emerge as the essential super-power of the setting. Their only real weaknesses are their low birth-rate and constant internal strife, so they're constantly trying to find themselves foot-soldiers and cannon fodder to augment their forces - I think Centaurs could easily be a creation of these in my setting.

I based them off Steppe peoples and the Dunmer of Morrowind. I wanted Elves to encompass all the normal Elf tropes (connection with nature, magical superiority, dexterous and quick) without them being nice.

[Regitnui]

My own setting's Mongol analogue are the Steppe Elves; who are a nation of nomadic warrior-elves who write their spells on the banners they ride into battle with, and use the actual Mongol tactics (moving enormously quickly between regions to give the impression of a larger force, mounted archery to destroy conventional forces, scorched earth tactics, a martial culture hat demands everyone have fighting ability, quickly assimilating defeated peoples into Steppe Elf culture and the psychological impact of their terror) combined with their magical advantages (when they pillage a town, they raise the population as Ghouls. They use Control Weather and Fog to mislead their enemies...) to emerge as the essential super-power of the setting. Their only real weaknesses are their low birth-rate and constant internal strife, so they're constantly trying to find themselves foot-soldiers and cannon fodder to augment their forces - I think Centaurs could easily be a creation of these in my setting.

I based them off Steppe peoples and the Dunmer of Morrowind. I wanted Elves to encompass all the normal Elf tropes (connection with nature, magical superiority, dexterous and quick) without them being nice.

I was just thinking about warlike centaurs being included in the Valenar (Eberron's gloryseeker horse-riding elves). Pipped at the post, I say.

[Tanarii]

I feel centaurs fit in well as part of a Feywild incursion into the Prime adventure arc or campaign. Of course, if you're really wanting to get that flavor you're going to need to rework Elves in your campaign considerably a la Pratchett's Lords and Ladies. :). (Or create a suitable substitute.)

[MrConsideration]

Chimera


We continue our trip through Hellenistic myth with the Chimera. Like many monsters in the D&D canon, the Chimera has moved from being an individual creature to a whole species, which is an interpretation I feel is a little odd (are all chimera in the world specifically part lion, dragon and goat? I'd prefer to see a range of Chimera - one is part crocodile, zebra and stag, another mixes aurochs, badger and platypus....) and rather lessens the impact of the sheer weirdness of the Chimera. Long before the progenitors of our hobby were looking at crappy plastic miniatures and inventing Gelatinous Cubes and Owlbears, ancient Greeks were also assembling absurd monstrosities. In my personal campaign setting, I'm a stickler for unique monsters. I've always liked the Forgotten Beasts and Titans of the Dwarf Fortress and think the chimera works best as one of those - a hideous antideluvian accident that by sheer happenstance is still blighting the world. Before we get too mixed-up, let's check him out...

Art
There is a naturalistic bent to this which, juxtaposed with the surreal nature of the subject, makes the picture quite powerful. The Lion and Dragon heads are both brilliantly captured and alive, but the goat looks quite alarmed, as though it received an invite to become a Chimera and didn't realise quite what that entailed. As ever, the Chimera just begs questions - what do the organs look like? The skeleton? Its a great piece.

Purpose and Tactics
It's a big, tough, solo beastie. To get around the Action Economy issues with being a big, tough, solo beastie, and to mesh with its three heads, the Chimera gets three attacks; a bite, claw and horn-gouge. Much like a dragon proper, it also has a recharging breath weapon attack. To me, it still looks fairly easy for a party of 6th level PCs to flatten - one save-or-suck or control spell followed by a nova could see the chimera out of action in a round or two, and weak mental saves leave it quite vulnerable to that strategy. Luckily for the Chimera, its fire breath deals a hefty 7d8 damage with a fairly challenging dex save, so it should be able to position itself to burn a large section of the party, then fly to an exposed victim for the next two attacks. W

There is some mention in the flavour text of taming a Chimera with gifts of treasure and food - a flying monster with high perception would be an amazing asset for a party notwithstanding the powerful attacks. Of course, it could easily be tamed by a rival of the PCs in much the same way....When communicating with the Chimera, you have to bear in mind that it only understands Draconic, and for some reason can't speak at all, making any negotiations tricky indeed.

Fluff
The fluff gives them an origin story as creations of Demogorgon, which I can get behind, and I love the idea of their heads being conflicted or antagonistic to one another - whilst this is played for laughs with Ettins, you could make it more tragic with the chimera in your campaign. They occupy vast territories and fight rival monsters for dominion, so they're always going to be coming to the attention of local adventurers. The 'typical' Chimera resembles the one on this page, which gives a nod to the idea that there are many varieties of chimera you could introduce. All in all, there's a tone of both the mythic and mundane naturalism in this text which I always find a little irritating in D&D - if I know its the monstrous creation of demons I don't need to know how it goes to the toilet. All in all, a few gameable morsels and a lot of the usual "bla bla bla this creature is extremely cruel..." waffle you always get in Monster Manuals.

A heroic effort is made throughout to make the goat head threatening - it apparently bestows a willingness to fight to the death.
If you say so, Monster Manual!

Hooks
The Goat head of the Chimera has plotted for years to be free of this existence. Whilst the idiotic lion and dragon glut themselves on innocents, the goat gleans what wisdom it can from very killing. Now it seeks adventurers not to slay the Chimera - but to separate the goat from it so that it can live a free life.

None can stand up to the Hobgoblin Warlord Scipius, for he commands the loyalty of the dreaded Chimera. Whenever citizens gather to protests his tyranny, the beast swoops from the sky, ravenous and terrible. If one could slay his monster, perhaps the land could be freee...

To prove yourself to the Brethren of Blades, you must venture to wilderness of Ugris and there slay the dreaded Beast of the Barrows. Some say it is a lion of prodigious size - others say a dragon - but you must end its life to be accepted into the Brotherhood.

Verdict: A classic monster, but one that belongs here - only the advanced age of the Chimera leaves us not wanting to hurt its feelings.

[Eldan]

The skeleton looks like this, of course:

[Regitnui]

The skeleton looks like this, of course:

Lady ('cause there's only one playing d&d) and gentlemen, the official answer to the question of "how do you know when you've put out too many sourcebooks". At least the Aberration anatomy book had sheer weird going for it. That's depressingly normal.

[deathbymanga]

Orc

Ah the mighty orc, the powerful barbarians of D&D. The cousins of the Elves and sworn enemies. Worshipers of Grummsh One-Eye, who I'm still confused about if he's an elven God as well, like Lolth, or if he's a completely different God. Are Orcs Giant-beefy Elves, are they cousins? Nephews? Uncles? The Orcs were told by their god to take any land that they can find, because when the world was started, everything was already taken and they had nowhere to live.

Am I the only one who feels a lot more of a Jewish feel for the Orcs than a Mongol feel? a Nomadic tribe of people, who worship a barbaric god and have no home to call their own? Not to go too deep into Religion here, but that feels very Jewish. True they're a LOT more warlike than the Jews, but that's just because their God is THAT much more bloodthirsty.

the Orcs also have a very Halfling feel to them. Both are nomadic who can never stay in one place, which makes the idea of a the two races getting along actually an interesting idea. Halflings don't really have "property" that the Orcs can steal or pillage, and the Orcs don't exactly have stuff to "trade", so aside from some skirmishes, the two races feel almost like they'd get along during peaceful times.

Art
While the Orcs are described as Piggish, they are a lot more human-looking than the past. In the past they'd have wide, frog-like mouths with big nostrils like a boar. But now? Long, flat, stone-like faces with big tusks and noses. They also have noticeably greyish or blueish skin, as opposed to the brown and sometimes greenish skin colours. This makes them less disgusting and horrifying, and more Ape-like.

Thoughts
Orcs are conquerers and barbarians, but surprisingly, also have a very inclusive lifestyle, very unlike my previous Jewish-comparison. Ogres, Trolls, Half-Orcs and Orogs (which are just Half-Orcs Half-Ogres anyway). They're even willing to serve as flunkies to Evil Giants (I assume the Evil part is just for the situations mostly likely. I'm sure some Neutral Giants would be fine employing Orcs as well). This means variety in combat. Maybe have a bunch of Orcs with a troll in the mix? Or maybe throw some Ogres in the mix also?

Orcs focus on slaughter and conquest, so they won't bother with mercy or enslaving people, but they will employ competent tactics, so watch out. They come equiped with a Javelin and a Greataxe, meaning they can fight mid-close range. If it were up to me? I'd employ a Bull's Horn tactical approach with them. a surdy wall of Orcs or Orogs in the front. Maybe a Troll in there as well. Send Half-Orcs and Orcs out as flanks to strike from both sides, but keep some Ogres in the back as Reserves in case things get too hairy.

But remember, ORcs don't just travel in large armies. They send scouting parties to go conquest first and bring back tributes, the party with the best tribute leads the army to where they were to finish conquesting the entire area. So make sure to kill every single Orc that comes there, or else they might return with an entire army, eager to destroy this dangerous foe.

Remember, not all Half-Orcs are Half-Human. Orcs can also Breed with Dwarves, which can be really interesting, especially since both Orcs and Dwarves are known for using Greataxes.

Also remember, that while Orcs hate Elves, not all Elves are loved by the rest. Try fitting the Drow among them. Do the Orcs hate the Drow as much as the other Elves? If so, maybe a war between Drow and Dwarves is coming, and the Orcs have agreed to fight them. the Orcs might be given a Drow stronghold as reward for helping. Who knows, maybe the Orcs will start conquesting in the Underdark, which is perfectly fine by the surface world people. Perhaps this might make the Orcs less enemies and more neutral parties.

Or perhaps the Orcs like the Drow, seeing them as birds of a feather. In this situation, perhaps you might find some Drow doing the tactics and strategy for the Orcs, or perhaps a war between Elves and Orcs has started and the Drow have decided to stand by the Orcs?

Also, don't skirt on those Eye of Grummsh Orcs either. Those guys are effectively War Clerics.

Oh, also remember that Giants like to enslave Goliaths as laborers, so maybe have an Orc slaver who goes about capturing Goliaths for his Giant cohorts?

Verdict:
Still an awesome race and I definitely look forward to using them later on.

[mephnick]

To me, it still looks fairly easy for a party of 6th level PCs to flatten

Put one up against my level 5 party and it got slaughtered after one breath attack, so yeah, the rule of action economy was upheld that day.

Single monsters are relatively useless unless you're giving them legendary actions.

[Shining Wrath]

Orc

Ah the mighty orc, the powerful barbarians of D&D. The cousins of the Elves and sworn enemies. Worshipers of Grummsh One-Eye, who I'm still confused about if he's an elven God as well, like Lolth, or if he's a completely different God. Are Orcs Giant-beefy Elves, are they cousins? Nephews? Uncles? The Orcs were told by their god to take any land that they can find, because when the world was started, everything was already taken and they had nowhere to live.

Am I the only one who feels a lot more of a Jewish feel for the Orcs than a Mongol feel? a Nomadic tribe of people, who worship a barbaric god and have no home to call their own? Not to go too deep into Religion here, but that feels very Jewish. True they're a LOT more warlike than the Jews, but that's just because their God is THAT much more bloodthirsty.

the Orcs also have a very Halfling feel to them. Both are nomadic who can never stay in one place, which makes the idea of a the two races getting along actually an interesting idea. Halflings don't really have "property" that the Orcs can steal or pillage, and the Orcs don't exactly have stuff to "trade", so aside from some skirmishes, the two races feel almost like they'd get along during peaceful times.

Art
While the Orcs are described as Piggish, they are a lot more human-looking than the past. In the past they'd have wide, frog-like mouths with big nostrils like a boar. But now? Long, flat, stone-like faces with big tusks and noses. They also have noticeably greyish or blueish skin, as opposed to the brown and sometimes greenish skin colours. This makes them less disgusting and horrifying, and more Ape-like.

Thoughts
Orcs are conquerers and barbarians, but surprisingly, also have a very inclusive lifestyle, very unlike my previous Jewish-comparison. Ogres, Trolls, Half-Orcs and Orogs (which are just Half-Orcs Half-Ogres anyway). They're even willing to serve as flunkies to Evil Giants (I assume the Evil part is just for the situations mostly likely. I'm sure some Neutral Giants would be fine employing Orcs as well). This means variety in combat. Maybe have a bunch of Orcs with a troll in the mix? Or maybe throw some Ogres in the mix also?

Orcs focus on slaughter and conquest, so they won't bother with mercy or enslaving people, but they will employ competent tactics, so watch out. They come equiped with a Javelin and a Greataxe, meaning they can fight mid-close range. If it were up to me? I'd employ a Bull's Horn tactical approach with them. a surdy wall of Orcs or Orogs in the front. Maybe a Troll in there as well. Send Half-Orcs and Orcs out as flanks to strike from both sides, but keep some Ogres in the back as Reserves in case things get too hairy.

But remember, ORcs don't just travel in large armies. They send scouting parties to go conquest first and bring back tributes, the party with the best tribute leads the army to where they were to finish conquesting the entire area. So make sure to kill every single Orc that comes there, or else they might return with an entire army, eager to destroy this dangerous foe.

Remember, not all Half-Orcs are Half-Human. Orcs can also Breed with Dwarves, which can be really interesting, especially since both Orcs and Dwarves are known for using Greataxes.

Also remember, that while Orcs hate Elves, not all Elves are loved by the rest. Try fitting the Drow among them. Do the Orcs hate the Drow as much as the other Elves? If so, maybe a war between Drow and Dwarves is coming, and the Orcs have agreed to fight them. the Orcs might be given a Drow stronghold as reward for helping. Who knows, maybe the Orcs will start conquesting in the Underdark, which is perfectly fine by the surface world people. Perhaps this might make the Orcs less enemies and more neutral parties.

Or perhaps the Orcs like the Drow, seeing them as birds of a feather. In this situation, perhaps you might find some Drow doing the tactics and strategy for the Orcs, or perhaps a war between Elves and Orcs has started and the Drow have decided to stand by the Orcs?

Also, don't skirt on those Eye of Grummsh Orcs either. Those guys are effectively War Clerics.

Oh, also remember that Giants like to enslave Goliaths as laborers, so maybe have an Orc slaver who goes about capturing Goliaths for his Giant cohorts?

Verdict:
Still an awesome race and I definitely look forward to using them later on.

I view Orcs as more like the Moties from the Mote in God's Eye, but not as clever. For religious reasons they do not limit their population, and so they will inevitably follow a Voronov Predator-Prey cycle, with just about everything considered "prey". Being a little smarter than wolves, Orcs will attempt to break out of their current habitat when food starts to become scarce, leading to the ravening hordes for which they are famed.

[deathbymanga]

I view Orcs as more like the Moties from the Mote in God's Eye, but not as clever. For religious reasons they do not limit their population, and so they will inevitably follow a Voronov Predator-Prey cycle, with just about everything considered "prey". Being a little smarter than wolves, Orcs will attempt to break out of their current habitat when food starts to become scarce, leading to the ravening hordes for which they are famed.

but a Wolf has an Intelligence of 3, while the Average Orc has an Intelligence of 7. Sure the Orcs are stupid, but they are a lot more intelligent than you give them credit for

[ad_hoc]

To me, it still looks fairly easy for a party of 6th level PCs to flatten - one save-or-suck or control spell followed by a nova could see the chimera out of action in a round or two, and weak mental saves leave it quite vulnerable to that strategy.

Medium: A medium encounter usually has one or two scary moments for the players, but the characters should emerge victorious with no casualties. One or more of them might need to use healing resources.

Sounds about right. Take some damage from the breath weapon and attacks and use up a couple spells.

[Shining Wrath]

but a Wolf has an Intelligence of 3, while the Average Orc has an Intelligence of 7. Sure the Orcs are stupid, but they are a lot more intelligent than you give them credit for

Wolves on the other hand aren't evil and rarely kill each other. In terms of long-term survival as a species, I might bet on the wolves.

[VoxRationis]

but a Wolf has an Intelligence of 3, while the Average Orc has an Intelligence of 7. Sure the Orcs are stupid, but they are a lot more intelligent than you give them credit for

Humans are Intelligence 10 and are really crappy at managing population, when you look at the species as a whole.

[deathbymanga]

Humans are Intelligence 10 and are really crappy at managing population, when you look at the species as a whole.

you compared their intelligence to being little smarter than a wolf. Which is kind of a big insult. Actually, I feel a 3 Intelligence is a huge insult to the tactical wolves also

[Shining Wrath]

you compared their intelligence to being little smarter than a wolf. Which is kind of a big insult. Actually, I feel a 3 Intelligence is a huge insult to the tactical wolves also

We're kind of limited by a 1-20 spectrum for stats. Is it linear or Gaussian distributed? But wolves aren't as smart as orcs - no written language, almost no tool use. The orcs do win, but not by a huge margin.

[CoggieRagabash]

Wolves on the other hand aren't evil and rarely kill each other. In terms of long-term survival as a species, I might bet on the wolves.

Right on the first part but technically incorrect on the second part. The number one source of mortality for adult wolves is other wolves. Almost always a rival pack in a neighboring territory is the source (or just any residential pack in the case of a dispersing / lone wolf), but if a pack is unstable then violence even from fellow pack members can prove fatal.

Fortunately, wolves breed pretty fast to make up for losses.

[VoxRationis]

you compared their intelligence to being little smarter than a wolf. Which is kind of a big insult. Actually, I feel a 3 Intelligence is a huge insult to the tactical wolves also

I did? Perhaps you are referring to Shining Wrath? I merely said that being more intelligent than a wolf does not necessarily free one from population crises.

[Osrogue]

If a chimera is made up of 3 different kinds of dragon, is it still a chimera?

[MrConsideration]

Jewish Mongols are not unheard of! I personally struggle to explain why Orcs are not more dominant - cultures that are nomadic, tribal and have a martial focus like the Mongols, Turks, Huns, Goths etc have commonly invaded 'more advanced' cultures and effectively installed themselves as rulers. It'd probably make a lot of sense of have human cities which occasionally have an Orc ruling-class. In most games it seems to be explained that Orcs lack magic or fall to in-fighting because they're mostly chaotic evil. I see them like the Mongols in the sense that when lead by a charismatic Khan they're a terrifying force but after that individual is dead they'll be war to the knife to decide who comes next and they'll devolve into messy chaos.

Medium: A medium encounter usually has one or two scary moments for the players, but the characters should emerge victorious with no casualties. One or more of them might need to use healing resources.

Sounds about right. Take some damage from the breath weapon and attacks and use up a couple spells.

It might mathematically use up some resources, yes, but it doesn't feel like a particularly intense or exciting fight. When you're hamming up its flaming breath and mighty roar and it dies after one turn, it ca really break immersion. I personally often myself using quite high CR monsters for solo battles just to keep them in the ring long enough for a real fight! I think multi-attacking and lair actions get around most of the problems in 5e though, without just giving them a bajillion HP to chop through.

[ad_hoc]

It might mathematically use up some resources, yes, but it doesn't feel like a particularly intense or exciting fight. When you're hamming up its flaming breath and mighty roar and it dies after one turn, it ca really break immersion. I personally often myself using quite high CR monsters for solo battles just to keep them in the ring long enough for a real fight! I think multi-attacking and lair actions get around most of the problems in 5e though, without just giving them a bajillion HP to chop through.

I am not sure what you are trying to say.

It isn't an intense or exciting fight because the PCs are too high level for it to be. I am not sure how that breaks immersion.

A CR 6 monster, on average, is supposed to be a medium encounter for 4 level 6 PCs. A medium encounter is not very dangerous and uses up a few resources.

It sounds like it is working as intended.

[deathbymanga]

Jewish Mongols are not unheard of! I personally struggle to explain why Orcs are not more dominant - cultures that are nomadic, tribal and have a martial focus like the Mongols, Turks, Huns, Goths etc have commonly invaded 'more advanced' cultures and effectively installed themselves as rulers. It'd probably make a lot of sense of have human cities which occasionally have an Orc ruling-class. In most games it seems to be explained that Orcs lack magic or fall to in-fighting because they're mostly chaotic evil. I see them like the Mongols in the sense that when lead by a charismatic Khan they're a terrifying force but after that individual is dead they'll be war to the knife to decide who comes next and they'll devolve into messy chaos.

wow, did not know about the Khazars, I'll definitely be looking over them.

And I agree. The Orcs should definitely be a lot more dominant in societies. Would be interesting if there was this one Orc, who was a very charismatic Orc, who unites the orcs in his area. However, after a failed assassination attempt, he realizes he needs to secure a legitimate bloodline that the rest of the Orcs will follow. So he searches out and in his conquest, he hears tale of a Dragon, beautiful and known for deceiving travelers with the guise of a woman. He ventures for, finds the dragon, and instead of killing her, he woos her, convincing her to bear his children. With a Direct line of decendents with the blood of Dragons in them, he establishes a permanent Bloodline for his Orc tribe. He sires dozens of heirs and earns the title "the Dragon lover", his decendents then take on the clan name "Dracamore", and the Clan Dracamore stands as the first Dynasty of Orcs. Their ability to form alliances with the Goblinoids and Giant-kin make them a serious danger. Grummsh starts as the defining religion of the group, but as they annex more and more races, they find that Grummsh himself would be disgusted if Halflings and Dwarves started worshipping him, so they begin to allow Religious freedom. Churches to other gods begin to be built alongside Grummsh, and some even begin to treat Grummsh as one of their own gods. Grummsh begins to take superiority over other War gods.

[Shining Wrath]

wow, did not know about the Khazars, I'll definitely be looking over them.

And I agree. The Orcs should definitely be a lot more dominant in societies. Would be interesting if there was this one Orc, who was a very charismatic Orc, who unites the orcs in his area. However, after a failed assassination attempt, he realizes he needs to secure a legitimate bloodline that the rest of the Orcs will follow. So he searches out and in his conquest, he hears tale of a Dragon, beautiful and known for deceiving travelers with the guise of a woman. He ventures for, finds the dragon, and instead of killing her, he woos her, convincing her to bear his children. With a Direct line of decendents with the blood of Dragons in them, he establishes a permanent Bloodline for his Orc tribe. He sires dozens of heirs and earns the title "the Dragon lover", his decendents then take on the clan name "Dracamore", and the Clan Dracamore stands as the first Dynasty of Orcs. Their ability to form alliances with the Goblinoids and Giant-kin make them a serious danger. Grummsh starts as the defining religion of the group, but as they annex more and more races, they find that Grummsh himself would be disgusted if Halflings and Dwarves started worshipping him, so they begin to allow Religious freedom. Churches to other gods begin to be built alongside Grummsh, and some even begin to treat Grummsh as one of their own gods. Grummsh begins to take superiority over other War gods.

So long as they have INT=7 baseline, they will be someone's cannon fireball fodder; possibly a rare smart orc or half orc, more likely a non-orc who manipulates them through orcish front-men. Sack a city, yes; have the patience and intelligence to appoint judges, arbitrate disputes between merchants, collect taxes and maintain a city guard and keep the aqueducts flowing - unlikely.

[deathbymanga]

So long as they have INT=7 baseline, they will be someone's cannon fireball fodder; possibly a rare smart orc or half orc, more likely a non-orc who manipulates them through orcish front-men. Sack a city, yes; have the patience and intelligence to appoint judges, arbitrate disputes between merchants, collect taxes and maintain a city guard and keep the aqueducts flowing - unlikely.

That's just the Average Intelligence. an Orc War Chief has an 11 Intelligence, and I'm pretty sure a super War Chief would have a 14 Intelligence