Being Everything: Eggynack's Comprehensive Druid Handbook

[DarkLegion]

Hm
Maybe I want to be a druid, but I don't know how well of a summoner they can make.
Ten minutes and an unrelated google search later I see your sig. Thank you.

Also - if you look in Races of the Dragon, there is Chitin armor. Not sure if you ever saw it.

[jmax]

Hm
Maybe I want to be a druid, but I don't know how well of a summoner they can make.

If you want meat-shields and beat-sticks, druids make fine summoners. The ability to convert any prepared spell spontaneously into a summon nature's ally spell of the same level means you'll always have plenty of summoning at your fingertips. Spell-level for spell-level, summon nature's ally generally gets you more hit points and more damage output than summon monster - most overlapping creatures appear one level earlier in summon nature's ally at the cost of not getting the (mostly defensive) alignment templates. (Exception - if you need to overcome DR/good or DR/evil specifically, the difference from alignment templates might occasionally be worth it.)

If you're interested in utility summons that expand your spell access through spell-like abilities and spells from the creatures you summon, druids aren't as potent as wizards and clerics because summon nature's ally focuses considerably less on that. There's a link in my signature for tables on what spells and SLAs you get access to from every level of summon monster and summon nature's ally, indexed by the spell/SLA you get.

Druids have some good (and some ridiculously cheesy, e.g. Greenbound Summoning, which your DM will ban or fix if she has a lick of sense) options for improving their summons, but (aside from spontaneous summoning) they have less in the way of focused class features and prestige class options than you can get with the summon monster classes.

Another thing to think about is spells per day. (Note: In all cases, you get fewer than "base" per day of your highest-level spells, but it's easier to talk about in these terms.) Like wizards, druids only get a base of 4 casts at each spell level. If you want to crank out summon after summon after summon and don't care about any other class features, take a look at Spirit Shaman - it gets to pick 3 different spells per day per level but gets a base of 6 casts per level. On the summon monster side of things, sorcerers also get 6 casts per spell level - although they're much more rigid in what spells they know.

One of the really nice things about druids and their spontaneous summoning is that, if for whatever reason summoning isn't a great option in a given situation (dimensionally locked spaces really ruin a summoner's day, for example), you're still a druid - even without summoning, you have an incredibly potent and flexible set of class features with the rest of your casting (which you can change out for new spells daily) and wild shape.

One word of caution: If you're playing in a game with PCs well-optimized for smashing things with swords and fists and rocks and arrows, beat-stick summons may become very weak when the DM starts tailoring defense levels to the melee and ranged damage capabilities of the rest of your party. They'll always be effective meat-shields, but you're never going to land consistent damage with beatstick summons on anything with AC 50. (This is another reason why having other class features to fall back on is very helpful.)

And finally, while I've never had the opportunity to try it, playing a Malconvoker has always looked like a blast to me. If you're looking for something that does nothing but summon and is really good at it, check that one out.

[sleepyphoenixx]

If you want meat-shields and beat-sticks, druids make fine summoners.

Another thing in favor of druid summoners is the Ring of the Beast, which lets you upgrade any SNA spell to one level higher (up to the highest you can cast).
So you can always get your best summons out of your second-highest spell level, which is a significant boost. And it's very cheap.

Also druids can summon Storm Elementals (i believe Eggy called them "druid Meteor Swarm"). Their Thunder and Lightning ability does very decent damage, so even high AC enemies are beatable.
There's also Rashemi Elemental Summoning which gives your Air- and Storm Elementals 3/day Cone of Cold.

[jmax]

Another thing in favor of druid summoners is the Ring of the Beast, which lets you upgrade any SNA spell to one level higher (up to the highest you can cast).
So you can always get your best summons out of your second-highest spell level, which is a significant boost. And it's very cheap.

Also druids can summon Storm Elementals (i believe Eggy called them "druid Meteor Swarm"). Their Thunder and Lightning ability does very decent damage, so even high AC enemies are beatable.
There's also Rashemi Elemental Summoning which gives your Air- and Storm Elementals 3/day Cone of Cold.

Yes, both of those are excellent. Rashemi Elemental Summoning is open to all summoners (assuming the feat is allowed at all), although summon nature's ally gets most elementals one level earlier than summon monster.

Storm elementals are excellent, but you do get them one level later than other elementals of the same size. And they are elemental creatures of the Air subtype, so they're absolutely valid targets for the Orglash template - whether you can use Rashemi Elemental Summoning to summon storm orglashes is a different question that your DM will have to adjudicate. (It depends on whether you interpret "air elementals" to mean the specific line of creatures or any elemental (air) creature you can summon.)

I didn't mention Ring of the Beast partly because a specific item should not generally be a reason to choose a certain class, but yes - it's definitely excellent. One additional handy use is to offset a level of metamagic adjustment on a summon nature's ally spell.

[danielxcutter]

Hmm, why not talk about the Abolisher PrC from Lords of Madness? If only to illustrate how it's a trap - I'm not sure if it's even better at fighting aberrations than a straight druid, and that's kinda the point of the friggin' PrC in the first place.

Nature's Purity(from the same book) though... not that great usually, but if you're going to be fighting aberrations a lot? That is a lot of force damage from a 3rd-level slot, and I don't think it totally sucks against constructs or undead either. Probably a bit situational though, but still...

[eggynack]

Hmm, why not talk about the Abolisher PrC from Lords of Madness? If only to illustrate how it's a trap - I'm not sure if it's even better at fighting aberrations than a straight druid, and that's kinda the point of the friggin' PrC in the first place.

My general rule of thumb for trap options is that said option either be apparently liable to trap people, or that I've seen it trapping people. Also, the write up would be annoyingly straightforward. "You lose caster levels and gain nothing."

Nature's Purity(from the same book) though... not that great usually, but if you're going to be fighting aberrations a lot? That is a lot of force damage from a 3rd-level slot, and I don't think it totally sucks against constructs or undead either. Probably a bit situational though, but still...

Seems plausible. Damage seems a little low for something so situational, given that it's at or below 1d6/level until 9th, when it briefly winds up ahead for a bit. I do appreciate a nice ray of force though. The clear alternative is hammer of righteousness, but that has a save and deals you strength damage so it's not all upside.

[jmax]

Seems plausible. Damage seems a little low for something so situational, given that it's at or below 1d6/level until 9th, when it briefly winds up ahead for a bit. I do appreciate a nice ray of force though. The clear alternative is hammer of righteousness, but that has a save and deals you strength damage so it's not all upside.

Does one really need small-number force damage against aberrations? Why not just maul them to death in Wild Shape? 5d6 averages 17 damage. I'm less certain about low levels, but for high levels I have exactly two aberrations on my "good physical defenses for shapechange" list - Will-O'-Wisp, which you can't reliably target if you can't see invisible creatures anyway, and Ha-Naga, which is Epic. Even on a day where you know you'll fight aberrations in general. I feel like greater magic fang would almost always be a better use of a 3rd-level spell slot.

Now if it did 5d6 per ray against incorporeal undead instead of 2d8, that would be a different story. But even then it has better than 50% odds of not 1-shotting a standard shadow. For the same spell level I prefer Spiritjaws against incorporeal undead.

[eggynack]

Does one really need small-number force damage against aberrations? Why not just maul them to death in Wild Shape? 5d6 averages 17 damage. I'm less certain about low levels, but for high levels I have exactly two aberrations on my "good physical defenses for shapechange" list - Will-O'-Wisp, which you can't reliably target if you can't see invisible creatures anyway, and Ha-Naga, which is Epic. Even on a day where you know you'll fight aberrations in general. I feel like greater magic fang would almost always be a better use of a 3rd-level spell slot.

Now if it did 5d6 per ray against incorporeal undead instead of 2d8, that would be a different story. But even then it has better than 50% odds of not 1-shotting a standard shadow. For the same spell level I prefer Spiritjaws against incorporeal undead.

Yeah, that's a real issue with it. The whole point of the spell would presumably be that it's hard to contest, but that's more or less meaningless if aberrations aren't really contesting your stuff in the first place. You need super precise knowledge of your target to prepare this, but if you have that knowledge then why are you preparing this? You could just be casting something that targets a weakness, and in so doing get more bang for your buck. The whole point of a ray of force is that you don't know what you're going up against, and this spell demands that you know exactly what you're going up against. That could actually make for an interesting write up, so I might end up including it on that weird basis.

[jmax]

That could actually make for an interesting write up, so I might end up including it on that weird basis.

Perhaps a generic section on how to choose your spell list for the day? I've actually not come across a whole lot of guidance on that outside TreantMonk's wizard guide, and that's focused on which spells to scribe into the spellbook at least as much on choosing your daily list. That could be its own mini-guide linked from your handbook given that it applies to many classes - although the specialties are different, so it'd still need some discussion of roles. I'd be happy to collaborate on it.

[danielxcutter]

My general rule of thumb for trap options is that said option either be apparently liable to trap people, or that I've seen it trapping people. Also, the write up would be annoyingly straightforward. "You lose caster levels and gain nothing."

Eh, so not really much worth mentioning and no real experience with it either? Fair.

Seems plausible. Damage seems a little low for something so situational, given that it's at or below 1d6/level until 9th, when it briefly winds up ahead for a bit. I do appreciate a nice ray of force though. The clear alternative is hammer of righteousness, but that has a save and deals you strength damage so it's not all upside.

Does one really need small-number force damage against aberrations? Why not just maul them to death in Wild Shape? 5d6 averages 17 damage. I'm less certain about low levels, but for high levels I have exactly two aberrations on my "good physical defenses for shapechange" list - Will-O'-Wisp, which you can't reliably target if you can't see invisible creatures anyway, and Ha-Naga, which is Epic. Even on a day where you know you'll fight aberrations in general. I feel like greater magic fang would almost always be a better use of a 3rd-level spell slot.

Now if it did 5d6 per ray against incorporeal undead instead of 2d8, that would be a different story. But even then it has better than 50% odds of not 1-shotting a standard shadow. For the same spell level I prefer Spiritjaws against incorporeal undead.

Yeah, that's a real issue with it. The whole point of the spell would presumably be that it's hard to contest, but that's more or less meaningless if aberrations aren't really contesting your stuff in the first place. You need super precise knowledge of your target to prepare this, but if you have that knowledge then why are you preparing this? You could just be casting something that targets a weakness, and in so doing get more bang for your buck. The whole point of a ray of force is that you don't know what you're going up against, and this spell demands that you know exactly what you're going up against. That could actually make for an interesting write up, so I might end up including it on that weird basis.

Well I get the point, but if you know you're probably going up against aberrations with a possibility of undead and/or constructs - the sample grell lair in Lords of Madness for example, while obviously not terribly common, does feature both grell and a couple of gnoll skeletons one of the grell philosophers are controlling - wouldn't this be at least decent, considering that you're getting a whole lot of no-save force damage out of a 3rd-level slot? I'm going to be honest, if I join a table playing a Ragnorra campaign and I play a druid(or something else like an Archivist or Chameleon), I'm probably going to end up spamming this a lot. I mean you can probably do better I suppose, considering how specific it is, but in that specific situation, it just might be worth preparing.

Oh yeah, it also has a 19-20 crit range against aberrations as well - not exactly major, but it is what it is, and if you threaten a crit with a ray you're probably going to confirm it anyways.




Side note: while you do get across the point that Shapechange is quite powerful well, it's not terribly helpful for players who aren't terribly familiar with the spell and/or just want to turn into something better at beating faces than Wild Shape offers. Which is a legit way of utilizing the power of the spell without breaking the game too much, so a line or two about that might help, like "At the very least, you can turn into something good at beating faces in ways Wild Shape doesn't, something that's certainly worth considering," or whatever.

[eggynack]

Perhaps a generic section on how to choose your spell list for the day? I've actually not come across a whole lot of guidance on that outside TreantMonk's wizard guide, and that's focused on which spells to scribe into the spellbook at least as much on choosing your daily list. That could be its own mini-guide linked from your handbook given that it applies to many classes - although the specialties are different, so it'd still need some discussion of roles. I'd be happy to collaborate on it.

Not sure if there's enough to justify a longer guide, at least on this issue, but it could maybe justify a couple paragraphs somewhere. Something about how picking situational spells operates.

Well I get the point, but if you know you're probably going up against aberrations with a possibility of undead and/or constructs - the sample grell lair in Lords of Madness for example, while obviously not terribly common, does feature both grell and a couple of gnoll skeletons one of the grell philosophers are controlling - wouldn't this be at least decent, considering that you're getting a whole lot of no-save force damage out of a 3rd-level slot? I'm going to be honest, if I join a table playing a Ragnorra campaign and I play a druid(or something else like an Archivist or Chameleon), I'm probably going to end up spamming this a lot. I mean you can probably do better I suppose, considering how specific it is, but in that specific situation, it just might be worth preparing.

Oh yeah, it also has a 19-20 crit range against aberrations as well - not exactly major, but it is what it is, and if you threaten a crit with a ray you're probably going to confirm it anyways.

It's kinda not that much damage though. The comparison to splinterbolt at a level lower varies in how close it is. You lose the fact that it's a ranged touch attack, and the swap from force to mundane damage is weird, but, if you're at 8th or lower, then you're dealing about 17.5 damage here. A grell has 32 HP, so you're just barely killing one with two of these. I just have to think that, if you know 100% that you're fighting grells, then you can do better. Doubly so if you're 9th level and above, where you can bring some 5th's into play. You're going into a fight with infinite knowledge and casting a mediocre blasting spell.

Also, this spell really doesn't do much against undead. Nine damage, or 18 later on, is real bad. I don't even think you'd kill a single one of these gnoll skeletons with a casting. You really have to be exclusively hitting aberrations here.

Side note: while you do get across the point that Shapechange is quite powerful well, it's not terribly helpful for players who aren't terribly familiar with the spell and/or just want to turn into something better at beating faces than Wild Shape offers. Which is a legit way of utilizing the power of the spell without breaking the game too much, so a line or two about that might help, like "At the very least, you can turn into something good at beating faces in ways Wild Shape doesn't, something that's certainly worth considering," or whatever.

I'm not sure how much utility it offers to suggest that, as a subset of doing literally anything, you can specifically do just alright stuff. I'ma add a link to jmax's handbook though, cause I prolly should've done that earlier, which covers a lot of the more in-between oriented forms.

[Mordaedil]

Hmm, why not talk about the Abolisher PrC from Lords of Madness? If only to illustrate how it's a trap - I'm not sure if it's even better at fighting aberrations than a straight druid, and that's kinda the point of the friggin' PrC in the first place.

Nature's Purity(from the same book) though... not that great usually, but if you're going to be fighting aberrations a lot? That is a lot of force damage from a 3rd-level slot, and I don't think it totally sucks against constructs or undead either. Probably a bit situational though, but still...

Looking at the class, if it didn't take the caster level loss, it'd just straight be an upgrade to a druid, which wouldn't jive with how it is supposed to work, so the caster level loss remaining, I notice a few things that could have been done to really make it worthwhile.

Favored enemy is a good start and improves fine. Pierce Aberran Defence needs a boost, and not a pitifully small one. The idea behind this class feature is to render the resistance of aberrations weakened when faced with your magic, but it ultimately only amounts to a pitiful +1 over a pure druid. I think if the boost was doubled or tripled it would really do what the class aims to do.

I don't mind the rest, albeit I find it strange that it relies on charisma for a druid prestige. Maybe it's better for a spontaneous druid casting from charisma. I would also have delayed the spell-level loss by 1 level, the other is fine.

So yeah, class is a trap, but it can be fixed with minor tweaks, I think. I mean, you aren't going to take this class unless you are in an aberrant heavy-campaign, so the lack of useful general features is fine, it just needed to be actually good against aberrations to make up for it.

[danielxcutter]

It's kinda not that much damage though. The comparison to splinterbolt at a level lower varies in how close it is. You lose the fact that it's a ranged touch attack, and the swap from force to mundane damage is weird, but, if you're at 8th or lower, then you're dealing about 17.5 damage here. A grell has 32 HP, so you're just barely killing one with two of these. I just have to think that, if you know 100% that you're fighting grells, then you can do better. Doubly so if you're 9th level and above, where you can bring some 5th's into play. You're going into a fight with infinite knowledge and casting a mediocre blasting spell.

Also, this spell really doesn't do much against undead. Nine damage, or 18 later on, is real bad. I don't even think you'd kill a single one of these gnoll skeletons with a casting. You really have to be exclusively hitting aberrations here.

Fair. So, this is good against aberrations, right?

I'm not sure how much utility it offers to suggest that, as a subset of doing literally anything, you can specifically do just alright stuff. I'ma add a link to jmax's handbook though, cause I prolly should've done that earlier, which covers a lot of the more in-between oriented forms.

Yeah, that sounds good.

[eggynack]

Fair. So, this is good against aberrations, right?

It's okay against them at specific levels. I just don't see the point of having something with no or few defenses when you know your target's defenses.

[Doxkid]

Fair. So, this is good against aberrations, right?

At the level you get it? Not really, no. Basically the same as Icelance except it's more specific.

Later on in the game (Caster level 9 and onward, since you get additional rays at that point) it's decent, sure. Especially if you are preparing to campaign against aberrations.

Among CR 4-9 aberrations there are very, very few that have cold resistance/immunity and, since Aberrations of that level rarely have damage reduction, Icelance is a better general 'attack' spell against them. Icelance requires a normal attack roll (which you gain a +4 bonus on) meaning it loses out a bit against Nature's Purity in To-Hit since normal AC vs Touch AC will usually be at least a difference of 4 points, but the rider Stun effect Icelance has on a failed fort save makes up for that since hitting can fully take the creature out of the fight for a round.

Oddly enough Icelance is a conjuration creation spell that allows for spell resistance; you can probably get your DM to rule Icelance should act like Orb of Cold and not allow SR.

[danielxcutter]

It's okay against them at specific levels. I just don't see the point of having something with no or few defenses when you know your target's defenses.

Erm... okay then? I guess that makes it okay against an aberration with a lot of defenses like I dunno an Elder Brain? Though at that point blasting isn't probably the best thing you can do in general...

At the level you get it? Not really, no. Basically the same as Icelance except it's more specific.

Later on in the game (Caster level 9 and onward, since you get additional rays at that point) it's decent, sure. Especially if you are preparing to campaign against aberrations.

Among CR 4-9 aberrations there are very, very few that have cold resistance/immunity and, since Aberrations of that level rarely have damage reduction, Icelance is a better general 'attack' spell against them. Icelance requires a normal attack roll (which you gain a +4 bonus on) meaning it loses out a bit against Nature's Purity in To-Hit since normal AC vs Touch AC will usually be at least a difference of 4 points, but the rider Stun effect Icelance has on a failed fort save makes up for that since hitting can fully take the creature out of the fight for a round.

Oddly enough Icelance is a conjuration creation spell that allows for spell resistance; you can probably get your DM to rule Icelance should act like Orb of Cold and not allow SR.

Let's see... 6d6 damage, half piercing and half cold, Fort save or paralysis, not a touch attack but +4 on attack roll... not bad. Yeah, Icelance is probably a bit better before CL 9. After that though it kinda lags behind due to the lack of scaling, at least in term of blasting aberrations.

[eggynack]

Erm... okay then? I guess that makes it okay against an aberration with a lot of defenses like I dunno an Elder Brain? Though at that point blasting isn't probably the best thing you can do in general...

But you know its defenses. It has a lot of them, but, if you specifically know you're fighting an elder brain, then you have a reasonable idea of its deal. You want something without SR, preferably a reflex save, it can't be totally ground oriented, and you need some way to deal with a lot of HP. The resulting venn diagram can't possibly be just a force ray. My initial thought of call avalanche isn't all that effective because of the typical environment, but mudslide seems good for the job. Can't actually tell if the depth applies to the initial burying, or if it's just about what the area looks like afterwards. Also, gotta note, nature's purity does have SR. I discarded enveloping cocoon on that basis, but it could be a good option.

My overall point is that spells exist on a spectrum of defense bypassing and power. Something like a ray of force is way over on the defense bypassing side. It doesn't do that much when it works, but it always works. However, the essential stipulation of nature's purity is that you know a ton about what you're attacking. And, if you have that kind of information, then you want something on the power end of the spectrum. You don't need to plan around maybe having to hit golems with good saves inside AMF's, because you know for a fact that that's not what you're fighting. You can actually target some weaknesses.

[jmax]

My overall point is that spells exist on a spectrum of defense bypassing and power. Something like a ray of force is way over on the defense bypassing side. It doesn't do that much when it works, but it always works.

On the other hand, something that (almost) always works still has to have a useful effect to be good. Nature's purity really doesn't pass that test. Break down the damage by level and we get:

5-8: 4d6 (avg. 14)
9-12: 8d6 (avg. 28)
13-16: 12d6 (avg. 42)
17+: 16d6 (avg. 56)

If you feel like being generous, increase the average damage numbers by 10% to account for critical hits.

At each of those levels, those are pretty miserable amounts of damage for a single-target 3rd-level spell. You should almost certainly be able to do more with a 3rd-level spell that does battlefield control, buffing, or debuffing, just on the basis of making the beat-sticks in your party (including your animal companion) more effective. Even factoring in AC and damage reduction, that's still likely to be the case. And because direct damage in 3.5 does literally nothing to impede an enemy until you drop it to 0 hp, the spell only time the spell's reliability actually matters is when your target has fewer hp remaining than the expected damage. So the situation in which this spell is worth having prepared is when all of the following conditions are true simultaneously:

1. You face only one enemy
2. Said enemy is an aberration
3. Said enemy has less than 14/28/42/56 hp remaining (depending on level)
4. Said enemy has either significant damage reduction or significant AC - but not spell resistance - or is incorporeal (are there any incorporeal aberrations?)
5. Said enemy has a high chance of success against any debuff spell that allows a saving throw (which is going to be from save bonuses because we've already ruled out enemies with meaningful spell resistance)
6. Said enemy is effectively immune to available battlefield control at your level
7. You can reliably hit said enemy's touch AC
8. You are the last member of your party standing that is capable of dealing any reliable hp damage, including your animal companion, or said enemy is out of range for your party members but within medium spell range
9. You are out of Wild Shape uses, or you are in a form that is incapable of dealing reliable hp damage and will likely die or become incapacitated on said enemy's next turn

In any situation with at least one of the above conditions being false, nature's purity is at best a mediocre use of a spell slot. If two or three are false, it's basically a waste of space. Remember that your actions have value. At low levels, the 3rd-level spell slot is precious, so the spell is not worth preparing except when you know all of the above will be true (which, in advance, is basically never). At high levels, the standard action is more precious than the spell slot, and the spell is not worth casting most of the time even if you do have it prepared unless you have nothing else relevant left - in which case your slot could have been better spent anyway.

You should have allies in your party (including your animal companion) who are capable of dealing large quantities of direct damage against single opponents. Heck, it can even be you with wild shape. So in order for a direct damage spell to be useful, it either needs to do a very significant amount of damage (think detonating all 8 holly berry bombs from fire seeds next to one opponent) or deal moderate damage against a large number of enemies (and even then you're probably better off with battlefield control most of the time). Otherwise you're better off helping an ally punch the bad guy in the face - or, since you're a druid, punching it in the face yourself.

[radthemad4]

Could you add an entry for the Fochlucan Lyrist?

[eggynack]

Could you add an entry for the Fochlucan Lyrist?

Maybe. It seems plausible. My initial impression was that theurge classes are really weak as a general thing, but it looks like you only need the one bard level, and bard spells are decently gap filling on a druid. On the other hand, the fact that you don't advance any druid class features besides casting is a serious downside. I'm inclined to think it's a red class that I'll wind up making black due to its "alternate build type" nature. Same deal that, say, MoMF gets. The evasion requirement is weird. Is the ring the only plausible way past that? Kinda awkward.

[Temotei]

Maybe. It seems plausible. My initial impression was that theurge classes are really weak as a general thing, but it looks like you only need the one bard level, and bard spells are decently gap filling on a druid. On the other hand, the fact that you don't advance any druid class features besides casting is a serious downside. I'm inclined to think it's a red class that I'll wind up making black due to its "alternate build type" nature. Same deal that, say, MoMF gets. The evasion requirement is weird. Is the ring the only plausible way past that? Kinda awkward.

If you can get access to the Feet chakra bind of Impulse Boots (Magic of Incarnum page 71), they give Evasion (plus uncanny dodge and a little bonus to Reflex saves).

[danielxcutter]

If you can get access to the Feet chakra bind of Impulse Boots (Magic of Incarnum page 71), they give Evasion (plus uncanny dodge and a little bonus to Reflex saves).

So two feats: Shape Soulmeld(Impulse Boots) and Open Least Chakra(feet).

[jmax]

Maybe. It seems plausible. My initial impression was that theurge classes are really weak as a general thing, but it looks like you only need the one bard level, and bard spells are decently gap filling on a druid. On the other hand, the fact that you don't advance any druid class features besides casting is a serious downside. I'm inclined to think it's a red class that I'll wind up making black due to its "alternate build type" nature. Same deal that, say, MoMF gets. The evasion requirement is weird. Is the ring the only plausible way past that? Kinda awkward.

Ouch, Evasion makes that a nightmare. That and the skill ranks are tricky since they mean you can't take this early. Otherwise I'd say Druid 3/Bard 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 3/Arcane Hierophant 10/Fochlucan Lyrist +3 would be near-strictly better than a traditional bard-based Arcane Hierophant build. Although if you're going Arcane Hierophant, bard is definitely not the best you can do. Druid 3/Bard 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 3/Arcane Hierophant 3/Sublime Chord 1/Arcane Hierophant +7/Fochlucan Lyrist +2 would get you full Sublime Chord casting with 13th-level druid class features. You'd still end up with 4 9th-level spell slots - 2 from druid and 2 from Sublime Chord (which would have 2 9th-level spells known).

But that ignores the skill prerequisites, which basically ruin everything. With them, you can't take Fochlucan Lyrist that early and therefore need to give up more druid levels to get into Arcane Hierophant. You'll never hit Sublime Chord 9, so no 9th-level arcane spells, and you'd actually never hit 9th-level druid spells either. So even more gimped Wild Shape, no 9th-level spells and therefore no shapechange to make up for it... yeah, it's not pretty. The alternative would be to do Bard 1/Druid 9 to meet the skill prerequisites and then take a 3 levels of Fochlucan Lyrist to get to the point where you qualify for Arcane Hierophant and then sandwich Sublime Chord in the middle as soon as you qualify, which I think at best gets you Sublime Chord 4 and therefore 6th-level Bard and Sorcerer spells. Not worth it - just go straight Arcane Hierophant at that point.

Apologies if I've messed up the math somewhere - it's way too early in the morning for this.

EDIT: And either way you lose everything if someone steals your Ring of Evasion - and dispelling it (1d4 rounds) would still probably be lethal to you. The chakra bind thing in the ninja post might work though. I don't know anything about Incarnum.

[Rebel7284]

Shadow Creature template (+2 LA) also gives evasion and is one of the more powerful templates because Shadow Blend is silly. Amazing choice with LA buyoff.
Spelldancer 2 also gives evasion in addition to free metamagic. Very feat heavy, clearly, but in some games, the free metamagic is very worth it.
Combat Medic gives evasion, but doesn't give any other ridiculous abilities to make up for the lost druid levels.
The build I usually see for a druid/bard takes a few levels of Green Whisperer from Dragon Magazine.

[Kalkra]

Probably not worth it, but War spells from Dragon 309 can make summoning spells summon 25 creatures per caster level. I say not worth it because of the increased spell level, casting time, and costly material components, but if you even need an instant army it's nice.

EDIT: The Shadowcraft Mage handbook has a sample build of Druid 5/Planar Shepard 9/Contemplative 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5. While probably not the most optimized build, because most of your Druid class features stop at 14, such a build could cast War spells all day every day.

[Nifft]

If you can get access to the Feet chakra bind of Impulse Boots (Magic of Incarnum page 71), they give Evasion (plus uncanny dodge and a little bonus to Reflex saves).

Yep, this.

One "standard" Fochlucan Lyrist seems to be Druid X / Bard Y / Green Whisperer 5 / Fochlucan Lyrist 10 -- with Shape Soulmeld + Open Least Chakra, or just the first feat + getting an ally to cast the spell open least chakra or manifest the power open chakra.

X + Y = 5; X > 0; Y > 0

Green Whisperer is from Dragon Magazine. It allows plants to benefit from Bard songs. This gives nice synergy with a summoner / caster Druid, and that's good because Green Whisperer & Fochlucan Lyrist advance casting.

You end up with 15+X casting on the Druid side, and 15+Y casting on the Bard side -- it's trivial to get 9 / 6 if you want.

That's the most basic version. It's not hard to sacrifice the first FL level for Sublime Chord, and then advance Sublime Chord casting with the remaining 9 levels of FL for 9/9 casting.

[radthemad4]

The Chaos Music feat is practiced spellcaster for Bardic Music if you want dragonsonic inspiration on your summons, but you're kinda short on feats (especially if going for soulmeld evasion).

Fochlucan Lyrist seems to suffer MAD (and don't advance wild shape). Aasimar can alleviate that a bit. Lost Tradition can help, but that's third party.

[eggynack]

Probably not worth it, but War spells from Dragon 309 can make summoning spells summon 25 creatures per caster level. I say not worth it because of the increased spell level, casting time, and costly material components, but if you even need an instant army it's nice.

You missed a pretty big cost here, which is the fact that casting them at all requires a feat. Probably not worth it as a result.

Green Whisperer is from Dragon Magazine. It allows plants to benefit from Bard songs.

Seems interesting. Wording is weirdly ambiguous about whether it works without initially having casting of any kind. You could bypass the perform issue with greensinger initiate too, meaning that this could operate as some kinda druid class features and feat for bard casting and music trade. That's a pretty appealing setup, though it honestly could still not be worth it. Wild shape advancement is sweet. Either way, the lower requirements make the overall setup more plausible. Unless I'm missing something, it looks essentially strictly better than lyricist (there're fewer skill ranks, I suppose).

Gotta note, however, that all of these plans are competing against just picking up initiate of Olidamarra. Grants solid access to core bard spells of third level or lower, which covers a lot of ground that this sort of build is angling for. That's definitely not a basis for exclusion though. Makes for a pretty interesting topic either way.

[Troacctid]

Don't you need a bard level in order to get the music advancement? You definitely don't need one to get the casting, but personally I feel like 5 levels of bard casting is a lot worse for a druid than 5 levels of druid casting is for a bard, especially since druids give up their class features for it and bards don't.

I do think the guide should cover it anyway for the same reasons why you have Arcane Hierophant and Swift Avenger in there.

[eggynack]

Don't you need a bard level in order to get the music advancement? You definitely don't need one to get the casting, but personally I feel like 5 levels of bard casting is a lot worse for a druid than 5 levels of druid casting is for a bard, especially since druids give up their class features for it and bards don't.

I do think the guide should cover it anyway for the same reasons why you have Arcane Hierophant and Swift Avenger in there.

Apparently. And, yeah, probably is worth mention as a super cheap pseudo-theurge. One problem here that I just noticed is that this plan doesn't seem to work with lyricist, because you also don't get the bardic knowledge ability. Separately, pretty sure I don't have swift avenger. Maybe I should cause it's talked about, but it seems so straightforwardly bad. Pretty sure the decent damage boost wouldn't be worth the feat even if the scout level weren't a requirement. That's at least an interesting bonus to think about though.