Warframe in the Playground 2.0

[Brother Oni]

Bows have reliable crits which are further doubled on headshots so one of the best things about bow is to aim for the headshots and reliably kill anything in one shot. I would recommend against Metal Auger: it has more punchthrough than you'll basically ever need anyways (just fire fully charged shots) so you generally get more out of extra damage.

Issue 1 - I can't get head shots reliably unless I'm pretty much in slide+melee range (told you I was a bad shot - I tend to default to CoM shots).
Issue 2 - being able to absolutely, positively wreck one guy's day per second is fine, until there's about 10 of them and more are coming. Also ice exterminus and nullifiers (that Corpus bow only sortie a few days ago was just silly with all 4 of us trying and failing to hold back ~4 nullifiers and their friends across the main bridge in that triple bridge tile).

As I said, I think bows are great single target weapons for high value targets but they need to be backed up by another frame who can get rid of the small fry when the crap hits the fan.

Inaros's 4 drains your health to create a shield that, when full, doubles your armor. Then you can click it once to send a scarab swarm that CCs enemies and creates an AOE health drain/healing effect. This costs you 25% of the armor. It's very cheap energy-wise but it has huge health costs. Once you get it on and fill out your health once though, you're generally fine as keeping it topped out is a far lesser health investment. The whole shield is refunded in health if you walk into a Nulli bubble or something but you don't get "overhealth" so most of the refunded health is generally wasted.

Hmm, interesting. Presumably it doesn't combo directly with Health Conversion, but are there any other health gain mechanics/mods that could take advantage of it?

[Eldariel]

Issue 1 - I can't get head shots reliably unless I'm pretty much in slide+melee range (told you I was a bad shot - I tend to default to CoM shots).
Issue 2 - being able to absolutely, positively wreck one guy's day per second is fine, until there's about 10 of them and more are coming. Also ice exterminus and nullifiers (that Corpus bow only sortie a few days ago was just silly with all 4 of us trying and failing to hold back ~4 nullifiers and their friends across the main bridge in that triple bridge tile).

As I said, I think bows are great single target weapons for high value targets but they need to be backed up by another frame who can get rid of the small fry when the crap hits the fan.

Well, in stealth runs they're awesome as you don't generally need to kill more than a couple opponents per shot and those can be lined up. Aiming you get automatic practice in by playing more If you're shooting at masses, Bows can shine in the appropriate terrain (anything that funnels the enemies in) but yeah, the AOE leaves something to be desired. Though you can run Gas damage + Status chance, and go for the AOE procs; the proc benefit of both, crit and headshot multipliers and it's checked for independently on each opponent so you have a decent chance; this provided you have enough damage to kill the enemies anyways.

Hmm, interesting. Presumably it doesn't combo directly with Health Conversion, but are there any other health gain mechanics/mods that could take advantage of it?

It's pretty strong right out of the box. But I haven't really found any comboes that interest me anyways. Steel Fiber does not work with the extra armor I gather; Health Conversion actually might though that's probably an overkill. It's not like Inaros is likely to die anyways.

[Leon]

My Favorite Bow is Dread but Rakta Cernos sees more action these days since its part of my defult loadout on Ivara who i use for anything stealthy. In general regarding weapons i typically go on the Idea of having a Slow primary backed up by fast secondaries or the other way around. So for Ivara its Bow + Wraith Twin Vipers.

[Brother Oni]

Well, in stealth runs they're awesome as you don't generally need to kill more than a couple opponents per shot and those can be lined up. Aiming you get automatic practice in by playing more If you're shooting at masses, Bows can shine in the appropriate terrain (anything that funnels the enemies in) but yeah, the AOE leaves something to be desired. Though you can run Gas damage + Status chance, and go for the AOE procs; the proc benefit of both, crit and headshot multipliers and it's checked for independently on each opponent so you have a decent chance; this provided you have enough damage to kill the enemies anyways.

So basically, git gud.

Can I ask why Gas over Blast? Does the increased damage and ease of lining up the next shots beat the CC effect?

My Favorite Bow is Dread but Rakta Cernos sees more action these days since its part of my defult loadout on Ivara who i use for anything stealthy. In general regarding weapons i typically go on the Idea of having a Slow primary backed up by fast secondaries or the other way around. So for Ivara its Bow + Wraith Twin Vipers.

Out of curiosity, does the IPS type of each of the three main bows (Dread/Paris Prime/Rakta Cernos) make any difference to your choice? When I do use bows, I use the Paris Prime against Grineer and the Dread versus Corpus (but only because I don't have the Rakta Cernos) - I wouldn't take a bow against Infested.

[Eldariel]

So basically, git gud.

Can I ask why Gas over Blast? Does the increased damage and ease of lining up the next shots beat the CC effect?

Status Effects. Blast knocks enemies down in a 5m AOE. Gas deals Toxin damage procs in a 5m AOE. Thus, Blast is better for CC. Gas is better for killing. Given that the damage is based off crit/headshot multiplied numbers, you can do pretty decent damage with Gas procs on bows (though not as high as Snipers of course) which gives them something of an AOE capability. Though mind, if you go up against really high level enemies, just ensure you can oneshot them first. High level armored enemies, Dread's Slash procs are actually your best bet.

Out of curiosity, does the IPS type of each of the three main bows (Dread/Paris Prime/Rakta Cernos) make any difference to your choice? When I do use bows, I use the Paris Prime against Grineer and the Dread versus Corpus (but only because I don't have the Rakta Cernos) - I wouldn't take a bow against Infested.

IPS makes some difference. Most of your damage comes from your primary elemental combination since you generally pick whatever has the greatest multiplier vs. the most common enemies. Slash, Puncture and Impact multipliers are weaker than Corrosive/Viral/Radiation/Magnetic multipliers vs. the appropriate enemies (vs. Corpus, I generally use Gas for status or Toxin for shield ignoring). This is doubly true for armor where the multiplier is both, a damage multiplier and an armor penetration effect. So e.g. Corrosive ignores 75% of Ferrite Armor and deals 75% bonus damage to Ferrite-armored enemies. This is massive and thus in particular vs. armored enemies, the vast majority of your damage comes from the elemental. To that end, IPS is not all that important as anything but seed damage or an incidental bonus.

The biggest relevance of the IPS component is status procs: IPS have 4x weight on status calculation (that is to say, if you have a weapon that deals 80 Slash + 320 Gas, your procs are 50% Slash and 50% Gas) so most of the procs you'll see on your weapons will be of the primary physical type: two 90% elemental mods gives you 180% Elemental, two 60% element+status mods give you 120% Elemental. Thus 69% of your procs with 90% elemental mods and 77% of your procs with 60% elemental mods will be physical (with the rest being elemental). Physical status effects mostly suck. Impact is way worse than Blast, Puncture is way worse than CC effects (Heat/Blast/Electric/Radiation/Cold). Slash is the odd one out: Slash procs do less damage than Toxin, Heat or Gas but they stack and ignore both, shields and armor. This makes the Slash-weapon status effects somewhat interesting; in this case, Dread. Vs. particularly high level armored enemies, you can actually chew through them most efficiently with ironically Slash-damage (the type with a penalty vs. armor) if you have a decent status chance.

[Leon]

Out of curiosity, does the IPS type of each of the three main bows (Dread/Paris Prime/Rakta Cernos) make any difference to your choice? When I do use bows, I use the Paris Prime against Grineer and the Dread versus Corpus (but only because I don't have the Rakta Cernos) - I wouldn't take a bow against Infested.

Not really. I will change them a lil bit pending what i need but my Dread is largely left set as a Slash/Toxin build and the R.Cernos is mostly set as Corrosive. Its Syndicate Proc is the prime reason for its usage on Ivara over the others. Dread has been seeing a lil more play recently since i picked up Hate finally so ive been rolling with all three Stalker weapons on a Red and Black Nyx (War has been and gone) P.Prime i rarely use which is kinda funny given the effort i went to get it back again once the skins were made to work on it. It is set up for Massive puncture and Crit.

[mangosta71]

While I really like bows, I find they simply don't put enough fire down range when things get really hectic, even with Metal Auger for ridiculous punch through (plus I'm a really bad shot).

Which is why I enjoy Ivara so much. Room full of enemies? Prowl's got your back.

I haven't gotten round to trying it out yet, but a big shotgun on Banshee would be highly entertaining if it works.

I leveled my Banshee with a Hek. Hilarity ensued. Aside from the lols of that thunderous roar being silent, point blank blasts in the back of enemies' heads. A Tigris would have been even better, but I was also leveling the Hek at the time, so two stones with one bird.

On the topic of AoE on bows, you can also slap a Thunderbolt in. Gas proc for damage, blast for knockdown CC. Granted, the blast isn't reliable since you can't buff the chance of the proc.

[Brother Oni]

Thanks for the info everyone. It's definitely opened my eyes to some of the pure element weapons that I dismissed as mastery fodder earlier in my warframe career.

Which is why I enjoy Ivara so much. Room full of enemies? Prowl's got your back.

Yeah, I've been working my way through the star chart again, this time picking up all the frames I missed. I'm up to Equinox on Uranus now, which should hold me up for a bit.

Ivara's been eluding me for a while - I guess I need to bang out those Rotation C spy vaults. I want that little tree frog.

Edit: On a separate note, why on earth do players bring fragile frames to no shield nightmare missions? I managed to squeeze in a Grineer survival on Ceres this morning for a Rending Strike and had a Vauban Prime, Excalibur and another prime frame with me in Inaros. Excally I can forgive, but the other two should really know better - I got 32 revives for that mission while not dying once and yet I still managed to get most damage.

[Astral Avenger]

Snip

Edit: On a separate note, why on earth do players bring fragile frames to no shield nightmare missions? I managed to squeeze in a Grineer survival on Ceres this morning for a Rending Strike and had a Vauban Prime, Excalibur and another prime frame with me in Inaros. Excally I can forgive, but the other two should really know better - I got 32 revives for that mission while not dying once and yet I still managed to get most damage.

I know that occasionally I forget that nightmare mission means no shields, not just random nightmare effect and will occasionally try and run it with something fragile. Normally happens when running with some people from my clan or solo, so it can work (just not well). I'm MR20 and will probably hit MR21 this weekend, so it's definitely not just the new players not knowing about it, its also the older players forgetting about it.

With grineer survival as the mission, vauban seems like a pretty bad choice to me, but if it were NM infested, he would be great. My inclination would be to run my frost or nyx, both of which are excellent damage sponges if played right.

Speaking of nyx, i need to get that newish absorb augment and see if I can fit it in without sacrificing the chaos augment.

And finally, the reason I originally came to the thread this morning, anyone have recommendations for good places to farm rep these days? seems like i'm not getting as much from a day of playing as I did a few months ago.

[IFenrys]

I know that occasionally I forget that nightmare mission means no shields, not just random nightmare effect and will occasionally try and run it with something fragile. Normally happens when running with some people from my clan or solo, so it can work (just not well). I'm MR20 and will probably hit MR21 this weekend, so it's definitely not just the new players not knowing about it, its also the older players forgetting about it.

With grineer survival as the mission, vauban seems like a pretty bad choice to me, but if it were NM infested, he would be great. My inclination would be to run my frost or nyx, both of which are excellent damage sponges if played right.

Speaking of nyx, i need to get that newish absorb augment and see if I can fit it in without sacrificing the chaos augment.

And finally, the reason I originally came to the thread this morning, anyone have recommendations for good places to farm rep these days? seems like i'm not getting as much from a day of playing as I did a few months ago.

I believe it's based on your Affinity gain, so anything high-level. Sorties will usually do pretty well.

I now have all six Syndicate melees, thanks to the generosity of Trade chat (specifically my region's apparent overwhelming need for Rakta Dark Daggers). The Secura Lecta is sadly as underwhelming as I expected it to be. The Sancti Magistar is rather lackluster as well, as its heal is a bit low for the effort of putting in a charge attack, though it's quite fun outside of its main selling point (forgot how fun Shattering Storm's combos were). My favorites are probably the Dark Dagger (Viral burst + CL shenanigans) and the Telos Boltace (dat spin). The Synoid would be way up there (I love the idea of putting the enemy back together to help me out on the fly), but they just nerfed it a bit too hard all across the board in order to "balance" it. It needs one of 2 things; better stats (at least equal to the base), or more specters. Either of those (or both) and it's probably my favorite Syndicate melee by a mile.

Would also be nice if it wasn't a second Syndicate hammer, but nothing we can do about it now. Would have been nice if DE had taken my idea for the Cephalon melee as a set of Gammacor-esque claws (I will not let this go until we have some good claws).

[Wraith]

Would also be nice if it wasn't a second Syndicate hammer, but nothing we can do about it now. Would have been nice if DE had taken my idea for the Cephalon melee as a set of Gammacor-esque claws (I will not let this go until we have some good claws).

I'd have liked to see the Arbiters get a Silva & Aegis, in order to match the sword and shield-shaped logo that they have (In lieu of giving them an actual sword, that the Galatine Prime should have been?). Then the Boltace could have been given to the Suda - a semi-transparent, holographic blade would have looked beautiful, but sadly it was not meant to be.

While it's not Claws, I think it matches the aesthetic much better than a hammer of any kind.

[IFenrys]

I'd have liked to see the Arbiters get a Silva & Aegis, in order to match the sword and shield-shaped logo that they have (In lieu of giving them an actual sword, that the Galatine Prime should have been?). Then the Boltace could have been given to the Suda - a semi-transparent, holographic blade would have looked beautiful, but sadly it was not meant to be.

While it's not Claws, I think it matches the aesthetic much better than a hammer of any kind.

Cephalon Tonfas would have been neat. Glaive would have been nice too. Hell, most categories would have worked better for the purpose of a melee weapon that analyzes the enemy. Anything with a cutting edge would have worked on the logic of "dissecting to analyze", and anything puncture-based could have been taking a sample, like a syringe or something. Impact is literally the only one of the three that doesn't work for a scanning melee weapon.

On the topic of sword n' board, though, I was actually hoping for Vaykor Ack & Brunt (a shield to protect the colonies), and Telos Dark Sword (to fit their sword theme) or Telos Jaw Sword (This is a retrospective idea; if they would let Gleaming Blight work on the Rakta Dark Dagger, why not Blade of Truth on the Telos Jaw Sword?). Right half of the board is mostly fine, though I was hoping for Heat Dagger rather than Dark Dagger. I even called the Secura Lecta months in advance, was quite happy about that :D

[Recaiden]

Arbiters were never going to get anything but the third bolt- weapon.

[IFenrys]

Arbiters were never going to get anything but the third bolt- weapon.

True enough, but one can dream. Similarly, Suda was never getting something other than the Cephalon melee weapon - which is why my complaint is that the Heliocor was a hammer to begin with. We've got plenty of those for now - play with an underused category please.

[Recaiden]

That's fair.

On the other hand, hammers were an underused category until recently. 18.8 if you count the Sibear, 18.12 since, let's be honest, no one counts the Sibear.

Now if they could just fix Machetes...

[IFenrys]

That's fair.

On the other hand, hammers were an underused category until recently. 18.8 if you count the Sibear, 18.12 since, let's be honest, no one counts the Sibear.

Now if they could just fix Machetes...

I count the Sibear, I love my red ice hammer :D

Also, we got Fragor Prime like an update and a half before the Heliocor. That alone screams "We're good on hammers for now, we've got one of the best ones the game will ever have."

I do agree that Machetes need a good fixing, but I haven't the foggiest idea what they could do to make the category appealing.

[Wraith]

I do agree that Machetes need a good fixing, but I haven't the foggiest idea what they could do to make the category appealing.

Make them a focus for casting abilities? Let them keep their slow speed and dull stats, but while you have it equipped you get +10% Casting Speed, or +10% Proc on your Warframes' passive ability, or something along those lines. There's already plenty of good melee weapons for all the different styles, but I don't think there is yet anything that lets you tailor your passive boosts.

[Leon]

First step is to fix the terrible stance or give the class a new and better stance.

[mangosta71]

Or just remove machete as a distinct class and roll them into swords.

[Eldariel]

Or just remove machete as a distinct class and roll them into swords.

Those are already some of the game's most populated groups; that'd be a huge weapon dump.

[IFenrys]

Those are already some of the game's most populated groups; that'd be a huge weapon dump.

This, pretty much. I'm not actually against the idea of folding the weapons into other categories, but we'd need to get some variety in there. Maybe we could use the opportunity to round out some other lesser-used categories. Put a hook whip on the Machete and make a Grineer Whip & Blade, add a horizontal handle and second prod to the Prova for some Corpus Tonfas (or an energy barrier for a Corpus Sword & Shield), etc.

That said, I'd rather see Machetes as a category not suck than just have DE give up on them.

[mangosta71]

There are 4 machete weapons (plus a couple special variants), so it wouldn't be that big a dump. Besides, the kama looks like a scythe and the item description refers to it as a scythe, so classifying it as a machete when there's a scythe category is kind of ridiculous. (Of course, dual kamas being in the dual swords category is just as ridiculous.) Make the kama a scythe, and we're down to 3. Make the prova a tonfa (seeing as how it's a baton rather than a bladed weapon), and there are only 2.

[IFenrys]

There are 4 machete weapons (plus a couple special variants), so it wouldn't be that big a dump. Besides, the kama looks like a scythe and the item description refers to it as a scythe, so classifying it as a machete when there's a scythe category is kind of ridiculous. (Of course, dual kamas being in the dual swords category is just as ridiculous.) Make the kama a scythe, and we're down to 3. Make the prova a tonfa (seeing as how it's a baton rather than a bladed weapon), and there are only 2.

Run with the Whip & Blade modification for the Machete (makes sense, considering who wields it), and we're down to one. I'll freely admit I can't think of any other category the Nami Solo would fit in. Perhaps if we stretched the model out a bit, it could fit into Rapiers (swashbuckling pirate weapon, anyone?).

[Astral Avenger]

Got the steel meridian glow stick and it bumped me over the threshold to MR21.

That test was really easy, high efficiency ember and Orthos p and no problem with the time constraints at all.

[Leon]

Finally got the trident of terribleness to 30 and dropped it faster than a hot rock. Am enjoying the R.Dark Dagger since its just a direct upgrade to the existing DD. Going to be a long while before my Rep with Suda or Hexis gets back to full so those two will be a long way off yet.

[IFenrys]

Finally got the trident of terribleness to 30 and dropped it faster than a hot rock. Am enjoying the R.Dark Dagger since its just a direct upgrade to the existing DD. Going to be a long while before my Rep with Suda or Hexis gets back to full so those two will be a long way off yet.

I assume you mean the Vaykor Sydon. It's actually not a bad weapon, really - it's even Blood Rush/Body Count viable (which means I finally got my crit polearm ). The passive is just a bit lackluster. We just need to lower the number of blocks needed for a blind.

[Astral Avenger]

I assume you mean the Vaykor Sydon. It's actually not a bad weapon, really - it's even Blood Rush/Body Count viable (which means I finally got my crit polearm ). The passive is just a bit lackluster. We just need to lower the number of blocks needed for a blind.

I haven't run numbers on it, but I thought it was more viable as a status weapon. I think it has 25% base status chance.

[IFenrys]

I haven't run numbers on it, but I thought it was more viable as a status weapon. I think it has 25% base status chance.

You can run it as either, really.

[Brother Oni]

And finally, the reason I originally came to the thread this morning, anyone have recommendations for good places to farm rep these days? seems like i'm not getting as much from a day of playing as I did a few months ago.

Off the top of my head, Akkad (Eris), Berehynia (Sedna), Hieracon (Pluto) are favoured farming spots for different reasons - you're most probably interested in Akkad and Berehynia for affinity farming.


On a separate note, how do you do that Grineer Galleon Spy vault with the conveyor belts these days? You used to be able to drop in from above but they've patched the hole in the roof (stupid Grineer DIY-ers...).
The only way I can see is to one-shot the sensor drone and all the guards before hacking the entrance - the drone's patrol route doesn't leave much time to hack the panel and the guards will detect you anyway if you try and cipher it.

[Eldariel]

And finally, the reason I originally came to the thread this morning, anyone have recommendations for good places to farm rep these days? seems like i'm not getting as much from a day of playing as I did a few months ago.

First principles of farming rep/XP/focus/anything going by Affinity:

1) Grineer unit base affinity gains are by far the highest:

Grineer: Powerfist/Shield Lancer/Hellion is 50, Trooper/Scorpion/Eviscerator is 100, Elite Lancer is 150. Then stuff like Ballista/Commander/etc. is 200 while Scorch/Heavy Gunner/Bombard/Napalm are 500.

Corpus: Detron/Sniper/Prod Crewman + MOA/Shield/Oxium Osprey is 50, Railgun MOA/Mine Osprey is 100, Nullifier/Elite Crewman 150, Shockwave/Fusion MOA/Anti MOA is 200, Tech is 500.

Infested: Leaper/Runner/Volatile/Crawlers are 35, Charger/Swarm MOA/Tar MOA is 50, Mutalist Osprey is 100, Ancient Disruptor/Healer/Boiler/Brood Mother is 150, Toxic Ancient is 500.

Corrupted: Crewman/Lancer/Butcher/Drone is 50, Ancient is 150, MOA is 200, Nullifier/Heavy Gunner/Bombard is 500.


The big things to note is that Grineer Core Unit is Elite Lancer, which is 150, while Corpus/Corrupted Core Units are 50 and Infested mostly 35. This is because Lancers are replaced by Elite Lancers in missions starting above level 15, while Corpus still have a healthy supply of MOAs/Drones/Detron Crewmen, Corrupted Lancers/Crewmen/Butchers and Infested the various light units regardless of starting level. Lancers also outnumber Butcher/Powerfists, Shield Lancers and Troopers heavily in any Grineer formation: indeed, they're basically always over 50% of the total.

The other thing to note is that Grineer Scorches and Heavy Gunners grant "miniboss" level XP, while of the other factions only Corrupted feature a decent number of units giving 500. Thus, you have to kill like 3-4 times more Infested to get the same affinity you would for a certain amount of Grineer. The same is true to lesser extent for Corpus and Corrupted, though their force make-ups are at least a bit more malleable.

2) Eximus units grant 10 times more affinity than their non-Eximus counterparts. Thus, if any mission produces lots of Eximi, that mission is incredible for affinity. Eximus Stronghold Sorties are of course the gold vein but also going deeper into an endless mission tends to produce an ever-increasing amounts of Eximi; the higher level, the better.

3) Spawn systems vary. Interception spawns new waves whenever old waves are dead. Thus, to farm an Interception mission for affinity, you need a group that can kill the enemy as soon after they spawn as possible, thus eliciting new spawns. Thus Interceptions favour optimized AOE power camp comps. Survival/Excavation spawn logic feeds constant enemies up to the map cap. Thus killing rate isn't as big of a concern, though spawn distances and enemies getting stuck can cause problems. This is better for casual farm anyways. Defense feeds a trickle of enemies spawning new ones as you kill the old ones. Much like Interception except more wait times.


With all this in mind, I'd recommend Selkie (Sedna) for casual leveling, or Berehynia (Sedna) for active XP farm nowadays. You can also go to Hydron (Sedna) if you want Defense-rewards. After that, yeah, Akkad/Hieracon/etc. are fine particularly if you want to farm credits, or Relics from Hieracon. They aren't nearly as good for Affinity as the Grineer-missions in spite of the Dark Sector multipliers though.