League of Legends LXV: What threads are mine to make, little Lamb? All, dear Wolf.

[lord_khaine]

Finally gotten the chance to watch the IEM grand finals, and dam what a massacre.
Do people think the team is actually stronger now with PoE?

[Artanis]

Finally gotten the chance to watch the IEM grand finals, and dam what a massacre.
Do people think the team is actually stronger now with PoE?

Just to start, I found this video wherein xPeke clarifies what's going on. It isn't PoE replacing xPeke, he says it's more like the Faker-Easyhoon thing, where they swap out for whoever would be best for that day.


So, with that in mind...


Will they be stronger than Season 5 Origen? Maybe. PoE is really good, and as said, they aren't completely losing xPeke or anything. It isn't a question of whether or not PoE is better than xPeke, it's a question of whether or not PoE + some xPeke is better than just all of xPeke. That's a question that's going to take a while to answer (and no, IEM is not a good indicator due to how many teams were still breaking in overhauled rosters).

Will they be stronger than Season-6-with-no-PoE Origen would have wound up? Almost certainly. The video makes it sound like a full-time xPeke would not be as good as he was in Season 5 for various reasons. Doing the Faker-Easyhoon thing - especially when they also wind up with a four-time Worlds participant doing some coaching as well - is far, far stronger than having one guy burn himself out so badly that he has to be benched partway into the season.

[lord_khaine]

Well yeah, it does seem like a gradual change all the same, where i at least got the impression PoE would be doing the majority of the matches since Xpeke is also fokusing on other things.

It is nice to hear your thoughs on IEM's though, i were myself not certain about how teams that had replaced large parts of their rooster, but did kinda notice that Origin looked like they had a very easy time.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I don't really play much anymore but when I do I keep thinking ''what the bleep is this new champion doing?''

I play a lot by feeling and that wasn't a problem when I played enough league to encounter almost everything frequently.
Now though it's harder to play against new champions purely because I haven't played (enough) against them. One game does not make an expert on counterplay.

I already look up champion abilities & counter tips quickly before a game does anybody have any tips how to deal with this problem in general?

If only I had time to play more.

[TechnOkami]

"Play more" would be my typical answer.

Um... watch videos of that champion interacting with other champions? Dunno.

[Dienekes]

I don't really play much anymore but when I do I keep thinking ''what the bleep is this new champion doing?''

I play a lot by feeling and that wasn't a problem when I played enough league to encounter almost everything frequently.
Now though it's harder to play against new champions purely because I haven't played (enough) against them. One game does not make an expert on counterplay.

I already look up champion abilities & counter tips quickly before a game does anybody have any tips how to deal with this problem in general?

If only I had time to play more.

A lot of the newer champions feel to me to have an abundance of abilities that illicit a response of "god that's annoying." Bard, Tahm, Kindred specifically get abilities that cannot only screw up your enemies but can really mess up their own teammates.

I pretty much hate them all. But that's not really good advise.

Kindred: deny her jungle camps. Your jungler might hate you for taking his camp but screw it. If she gets a camp near you take it or organize your team to take it. And if she ults in a team fight stay inside pick another champion inside and as soon as the ult ends blow them up.

Illaoi: if you lane against her she is a huge pain. As her tentacles can quickly take over the lane. You can keep trying to kill them but this will usually open you up for being attacked by her or you'll lose cs. I've had more luck by just pushing the lane under her tower so there's really only a couple spots for her tentacles to spawn and they're not much a problem to get rid of. Just be careful for the enemy jungler since you're so pushed up.

Tahm: he sucks up minions and launches them at you. The splash radius on this spell makes it particularly difficult to dodge, though not impossible. He also eats and chews you if he hits you a few too many times. Really your best bet for dealing with him is picking at his health until he has to use his shield then backing off until you can do it again.

Ekko: probably one of the more straightforward of the new champions to deal with. Dodging his skill shot is not too hard, eventually you'll pick up on his stun/shield animation and learn to dodge that. And his animation shows you when his ult is up so use that to your advantage. If it's up kill him fast so he has to use it away from you, as it deals a lot of damage. If it's not up, also kill him fast as you don't know when it will pop up. He's a squishy ap champion so killing him isn't particularly hard.

Bard: his stun only works if it hits another enemy or a wall. His healing power is really weak, and his ult can mess up his allies as much as his enemies. Honestly, having him be on your enemies team is almost a blessing. If he does ult you in a bad position there's no real counter play to think about just do as you would if you were caught originally. Which admittedly is often just die. But that's the game, I guess.

[thracian]

On Ekko, the little ghost version of him starts showing up when ult has 4 seconds of CD left.

[Artanis]

I don't really play much anymore but when I do I keep thinking ''what the bleep is this new champion doing?''

I play a lot by feeling and that wasn't a problem when I played enough league to encounter almost everything frequently.
Now though it's harder to play against new champions purely because I haven't played (enough) against them. One game does not make an expert on counterplay.

I already look up champion abilities & counter tips quickly before a game does anybody have any tips how to deal with this problem in general?

If only I had time to play more.

Honestly, I find that watching the pro stuff helps a lot. I'm not even remotely skilled enough to get much (if anything) out of what the players themselves do on a mechanical level, but I find that seeing a lot of kits in action at that level really helps give me a good idea of what each champion is generally capable of.

[shadow_archmagi]

Tahm: he sucks up minions and launches them at you. The splash radius on this spell makes it particularly difficult to dodge, though not impossible. He also eats and chews you if he hits you a few too many times. Really your best bet for dealing with him is picking at his health until he has to use his shield then backing off until you can do it again.

The best way to fight Tahm is to not fight Tahm. If he can't land three hits on you, then his abilities are a pair of low damage skillshots and some extra health.

If you must fight Tahm, remember that his cooldowns are pretty long; there's a 14 second cooldown on his W, so if he spits a minion at you, you're pretty safe to engage for a bit. Just don't ever plan on going all in and 100-0 him because his E converts his lost HP into a shield, so you don't have to 100-0 him so much as 200-0 him if you're trying to do it all in one go. If you can back off for a couple seconds though, the shield poofs and he dies like normal. Unless he has Warmogs and healed back to full because WHOOO WARMOGS YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[Ashen Lilies]

If you're playing a melee bruiser, the best way to fight top lane Tahm is to AFK.

[thracian]

The best way to fight Tahm is to not fight Tahm. If he can't land three hits on you, then his abilities are a pair of low damage skillshots and some extra health.

His abilities actually have really solid base damages.

[Lethologica]

Comic for new Poppy lore. No surprises.

[TechnOkami]

So, I feel like her art design and at least her comic-based personality are pretty damn spot on, but her new voice makes her seem a little too socially awkward and, frankly, ditzy.

I wish she had more of a stoic, Female Guts-esque voice from Berserk (sans all the mental trauma).

Hell, PTSD War Veteran poppy as a gruff rough n' tumble fighter would theoretically be a more interesting voice than the one she's been given.

Just, the Poppy in the comic is not the same Poppy we've been given in the game. Just kinda irks me.

[Mabn]

what bugs me about the poppy rework is the dialog. If she really didn't think she was the hero why does she keep saying she isn't? I'm not the hero either, but I don't go around saying that because it is obvious. The only reason she would reference that she's not the hero and she's just holding the hammer till she finds them is if she thinks there is a good reason to think that she is the hero that she feels a need to deny. And that totally contradicts the blithely unaware thing that is now apparently half of her character.

[Ivellius]

Comic for new Poppy lore. No surprises.

I suspect we may feel similarly about this story.

After seeing the bio and the comic, I feel like this Poppy is even more of a dead-end than the old one (not that she actually was--just because Riot has refused to explore the possibilities of their stories that doesn't mean they didn't exist). It's like a one-note joke that, after being hammered in over and over, really isn't all that funny. And with her character being so focused on this one aspect, what's going to happen if she figures out she's the hero she's seeking? Are they going to redo her voiceover to take all of that out?

I reckon there's really only one story they can tell with this character, so in a couple of years we might see it and then not hear from her until her next lore reboot.

[Lethologica]

I mean, they can tell any number of stories on this base, it's just that they're currently doing it with a one-gag joke instead of a character, and they can only develop Poppy in ways that don't advance or resolve her basic premise--well, until they're ready for the consequences of doing so. Will they ever be ready? Color me skeptical. (Also, can we talk about how the hammer is supposed to glow when it meets the true hero, but Poppy just never notices that it glows for her, or whatever.)

[McDouggal]

Quas is retiring.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snvp0q

[Godskook]

what bugs me about the poppy rework is the dialog. If she really didn't think she was the hero why does she keep saying she isn't? I'm not the hero either, but I don't go around saying that because it is obvious. The only reason she would reference that she's not the hero and she's just holding the hammer till she finds them is if she thinks there is a good reason to think that she is the hero that she feels a need to deny. And that totally contradicts the blithely unaware thing that is now apparently half of her character.

She's holding and wielding the hammer. That's well enough to give those she talks to the impression that she's the -worthy- owner of the hammer and say so to her. Hell, I'd expect that to be a rather common topic whenever she actually talks to anyone about finding the true-owner after seeing her fight with the hammer.

Poppy: I'm looking for the hero destined to wield this weapon.
Citizen: Isn't that you? I just saw you kill that Kraken....
Poppy: No, I'm not the hero, I'm just the weapon's keeper until the hero is revealed.

[Anarion]

As a character, I actually think Poppy has some potential good use in lore events in the future. They've basically ensured that she'd try to interact with almost any other champion that she encounters, so what's likely to happen is that any lore event where she's present will result in her getting involved because of her quest. Then she'll end up doing some heroic staff while being humble about it and maybe grow as an individual in some minor ways like Graves and TF did.

[lord_khaine]

Hi, got a couple swift questions for the people here.

Do you think devourer is still worth building in this new meta, or is it a bit to slow to complete now?

And do anyone have any good and positive streamers they would like to recomend?

[Duck999]

She's holding and wielding the hammer. That's well enough to give those she talks to the impression that she's the -worthy- owner of the hammer and say so to her. Hell, I'd expect that to be a rather common topic whenever she actually talks to anyone about finding the true-owner after seeing her fight with the hammer.

Poppy: I'm looking for the hero destined to wield this weapon.
Citizen: Isn't that you? I just saw you kill that Kraken....
Poppy: No, I'm not the hero, I'm just the weapon's keeper until the hero is revealed.

That appears a reasonable assumption for many reasons. One of them is what bothers me most
The hammer appears to just straight out not work for those not destined to wield it. Doesn't work at all. But since it works for her, she could make a fair assumption about it. Otherwise wouldn't it not work for her either?

[TechnOkami]

Do you think devourer is still worth building in this new meta, or is it a bit to slow to complete now?

It is depending on who you're playing. If the answer happens to be Master Yi or Jax, you're gold. It's a very champion dependent item.

And do anyone have any good and positive streamers they would like to recomend?

I second this question.

[lord_khaine]

It is depending on who you're playing. If the answer happens to be Master Yi or Jax, you're gold. It's a very champion dependent item.

Well my main jungler is Shyvanna, but in some way the item feels very snowbally to me. If my team is ahead and we manages to to take the neutral monsters down then its pretty swiftly getting sated.
But at the same time when just slightly behind in Heralds and Dragons, then it seems like it delay getting more tanky.

[Dienekes]

Well my main jungler is Shyvanna, but in some way the item feels very snowbally to me. If my team is ahead and we manages to to take the neutral monsters down then its pretty swiftly getting sated.
But at the same time when just slightly behind in Heralds and Dragons, then it seems like it delay getting more tanky.

Basically. If your second item is either Rageblade or BotRK it's still considered good. In fact Devour+BotRK Shyvana actually increased in winrate after patch 5.22 and 5.23 at the higher leagues. It's still a very powerful combo.

i think it has to do with the game feeling more swingy. Sated Devour is one of the few huge power boosts that can actually turn the tide of a losing game or if you're winning put that last nail in their coffin.

[Legoshrimp]

And do anyone have any good and positive streamers they would like to recomend?

Trump amaz kripp.. Oh did you mean league?

It depends on what role you are looking for. I tend to watch pros I like. They generally satisfy the good part, but are somewhat hit or miss on positivity.

[lord_khaine]

Basically. If your second item is either Rageblade or BotRK it's still considered good. In fact Devour+BotRK Shyvana actually increased in winrate after patch 5.22 and 5.23 at the higher leagues. It's still a very powerful combo.

Yeah i can also sometimes manage to complete that combo, but at the same time its really expensive, and it sometimes feel like it takes away from the tanky stats i need to dive the enemy team.

It depends on what role you are looking for. I tend to watch pros I like. They generally satisfy the good part, but are somewhat hit or miss on positivity.

Funny enough its my experience the pros are generally bad streamers, often letting their fame and lol skill carry them.

But i think im mainly looking for less salt and more off-meta picks.

[Landis963]

That appears a reasonable assumption for many reasons. One of them is what bothers me most
The hammer appears to just straight out not work for those not destined to wield it. Doesn't work at all. But since it works for her, she could make a fair assumption about it. Otherwise wouldn't it not work for her either?

I'm still of the opinion that she's flat-out ignoring the possibility that she could be the hero, because it terrifies her. And why wouldn't it? Yordles don't exactly cut the most impressive figure, especially not compared with a Garen or a Jarvan. (Two Demacian heros, BTW, that she's known to idolize) That plus the pressures placed on the prophesied hero and her reticence to notice the obvious become quite understandable, IMO.

[Anarion]

Do you think devourer is still worth building in this new meta, or is it a bit to slow to complete now?

As mentioned, Jax and Yi are the primary users. It's okay on Shyvana, but I'd also consider cinderhulk depending on your team comp and when in the game your team will need you.

Also, rather than just answer this question, I'd like to try and give you some tools to answer it yourself in your games. The reason that devourer has dropped in popularity is two things: one is that it got worse for ranged champions because the passive was changed to ever 4th hit instead of every 2nd. Two is that the pace of the game has changed. So let's look at how to evaluate those:

a) Worse on ranged: This is fairly easy because you can sit down and do math with it. If your ranged character was on the borderline between devourer and warrior before, you want warrior now. If your character has a lot of ability damage based on AD scaling, you probably want warrior. If your ranged character benefits primarily from attack speed, you might still want devourer. Also, so you know, Kindred is exactly on the borderline on this and I believe warrior to be the better choice.

b) Game pacing change: In season 5, the games were tending long so that mistakes early didn't mean the game ended and a jungler would have time to stack devourer. These days, the game is typically decided (even if not ended) in the period between 10 and 20 minutes. What this means is that a jungle item that provides the most immediate power is really important because if you win your midgame fights, your team will snowball and the slight loss in power from sated won't be felt.

What these two mean is that if you're playing a ranged jungler you probably want warrior and if you're playing a melee, you need to want devourer for its base stats. This is why Yi and Jax are still building it. They both benefit a great deal from attack speed and get a lot of their damage from on-hit effects and attacking multiple times. Other champs like Xin Zhao and Shyvana that synergize well with it can also still build the item, but you should think about your games and the needs of your team when you decide that.

Funny enough its my experience the pros are generally bad streamers, often letting their fame and lol skill carry them.

But i think im mainly looking for less salt and more off-meta picks.

Try Froggen, he's good at setting the meta. Also, just try going onto twitch, looking at the LoL streams, and seeing what's being played. In a lot of cases streamers are waiting for games or duoing with standard picks for practice, so the best way to approach it is to just shift through the streams until you find one that interests you and then pay attention to it.

[shadow_archmagi]

I saw a Malphite build rageblade. Combined with the bonus-damage-from armor thing on his autos, it made him pretty mean actually.

[Olinser]

Hi, got a couple swift questions for the people here.

Do you think devourer is still worth building in this new meta, or is it a bit to slow to complete now?

And do anyone have any good and positive streamers they would like to recomend?

Nightblue3 is a pretty good jungle streamer. He does a lot of talking about what he thinks during games about how the game is flowing and how people should play certain situations.

He also answers a lot of fan questions when he notices them.