League of Legends LXV: What threads are mine to make, little Lamb? All, dear Wolf.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I'm not really that hyped about the marksmen changes, I don't really play them unless absolutely necessary and my go-to's aren't on the "heavy changes" list. However I'm really interested in the vision changes and the masteries.

[Joran]

Spoiler: And some more news and thoughts regarding NA's Worlds Teams

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That's some pretty heavy news. At this point, the only person who appears to still be secure in having a spot, is Bjergsen. Lustboy and Dyrus are retired, Santorin leaving the team/possibly retiring from e-sports. WildTurtle is now fighting for a job. And now even the coaching staff is hiring That kinda seems to imply Reginald is leaving as well. And the head coaching requirements, that has me scratching my head. Why the Bachelor's degree? And why the heavier focus on prior, traditional sport experience, then on League Knowledge?

And it's not just them with a shake up: Since C9's LemonNation is moving to staff, there's going to be one or two changes to the team: Either a new Support, or a new Jungler, with current Jungler Hal being moved to Support.

Also CLG has made some announcements. Announced last Friday, "HuHi" will be taking over in Mid lane next season, while "Pobelter" will be taking a yet undefined role with the team. Additionally, Chris Ehrenreich was just released from the Head Coach position today.

TSM is hopping on the "hire a head coach who doesn't necessarily know League of Legends but knows how to coach a team" bandwagon. The two major examples of this is BlurredLimes (Chris, who just left CLG for unspecified reasons) and Deilor of Fnatic. Coaches for LoL teams used to be ex-pros, like Scarra and Locodoco, who had really good game knowledge and insight, but weren't great managers of people. The new model seems to be hiring someone who's basically there to manage the people, make sure the practice and living environment is good, make sure problems don't fester, so having someone with traditional sports background and experience fits here. The game experts become more like analysts, so that's why Locodoco is staying (and probably helping pick/bans still), while still trying to fill the head coach role.

I'm surprised that Cloud 9 is operating under the assumption that Hai will fill either support or jungle spot. Given the interviews, he's always maintained that he would rather have stayed retired and didn't want to get back into the grind. He came back because he was needed, but with a full offseason, you'd think they could find a replacement.

[Olinser]

We started previewing preseason 2016, so I get to finally talk about what I've been working on recently again.

Yall best not be touching my AP Kog.

[Ionbound]

So...What's the logic behind removing green wards?

[Olinser]

TSM is hopping on the "hire a head coach who doesn't necessarily know League of Legends but knows how to coach a team" bandwagon. The two major examples of this is BlurredLimes (Chris, who just left CLG for unspecified reasons) and Deilor of Fnatic. Coaches for LoL teams used to be ex-pros, like Scarra and Locodoco, who had really good game knowledge and insight, but weren't great managers of people. The new model seems to be hiring someone who's basically there to manage the people, make sure the practice and living environment is good, make sure problems don't fester, so having someone with traditional sports background and experience fits here. The game experts become more like analysts, so that's why Locodoco is staying (and probably helping pick/bans still), while still trying to fill the head coach role.

I'm surprised that Cloud 9 is operating under the assumption that Hai will fill either support or jungle spot. Given the interviews, he's always maintained that he would rather have stayed retired and didn't want to get back into the grind. He came back because he was needed, but with a full offseason, you'd think they could find a replacement.

I was under the impression Chris got kicked to the curb because CLG had literally the most favorable matchup imaginable in the group stage and they went 2-4. They finished with the same record as a freaking WILD CARD team.

[Olinser]

So...What's the logic behind removing green wards?

The article isn't written very well.

They still explicitly mention Sightstones (support items can upgrade into a sightstone at tier 3), and still talk about trinkets.

My understanding from reading it is that you can't buy INDIVIDUAL Green wards anymore, but you still get green wards from trinkets and sightstones.

[mrcarter11]

So...What's the logic behind removing green wards?

I think the logic is pushing farther into the whole "warding is a team effort" path. The hard limit helps a lot, but by making the yellow ward start with 2 and that the upgrade at level 9 free, they probably felt the need to take basic buy wards out of the game. It should make vision play feel more interesting, since now if a jungler decides to use raptor's smite bonus on your river ward, you can't automatically refresh it.

Yall best not be touching my AP Kog.

They said that the play pattern of AP will be different, but the actual strength should be very similar. The ult deals less damage from the 51%-100% health targets, it's new damage then doubles from 26%-50% health targets and triples against targets with 25% or less health. With the new W changes, where the attack speed gets even faster, Nashor's might be stronger on him as well, which could be quite interesting.


The adc changes I most want to play are Graves though. They /sound/ really cool. Hurricane having crit is like a wet dream of Jinx. Really curious to see how that plays out with things like IE and new ER. Any chance we can get an idea of what LW builds into now?

[Reinboom]

Any chance we can get an idea of what LW builds into now?

Last Whisper + Executioner's Calling = new item
Last Whisper + Giant Slayer = new item

[ex cathedra]

I think the logic is pushing farther into the whole "warding is a team effort" path. The hard limit helps a lot, but by making the yellow ward start with 2 and that the upgrade at level 9 free, they probably felt the need to take basic buy wards out of the game. It should make vision play feel more interesting, since now if a jungler decides to use raptor's smite bonus on your river ward, you can't automatically refresh it.

i'll be a little disappointed if this puts more pressure on junglers to provide a second sightstone

[mrcarter11]

i'll be a little disappointed if this puts more pressure on junglers to provide a second sightstone

As someone who ends up jungling a lot, I agree. On the other hand, I'm maybe optimistic that the new SS upgrades are /fun/ to build?

I don't think it will be a very pressured thing though, except in a professional environment where it is already a thing. I'm assuming the trinket combo will stay about the same, 2Y2R1B or 2(3)Y3(2)R. The upgraded yellows with 1 sightstone on someone who lacks a yellow upgrade should be enough vision to play around. Plus with pinks being cheaper, you could always opt for it if you felt it was needed early.

Last Whisper + Executioner's Calling = new item
Last Whisper + Giant Slayer = new item

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
So the first one is to kill all of the major regen tanks and the second is to kill all the health stackers ever.

[Reinboom]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
So the first one is to kill all of the major regen tanks and the second is to kill all the health stackers ever.

Yepperino.

[mrcarter11]

Yepperino.

Seems legit. Kog is gonna be a scary beast. I'm curious to figure out how useful/not useful TF will be on him after these changes.

[Anarion]

Yepperino.

Does that mean Bork will get a different focus than taking out high health targets?

[Joran]

I was under the impression Chris got kicked to the curb because CLG had literally the most favorable matchup imaginable in the group stage and they went 2-4. They finished with the same record as a freaking WILD CARD team.

Performance wasn't the issue, according to both his and management's statements.

CLG: "It puts me in an awkward position to comment on an issue that, in my opinion, shouldn’t be a public issue. But such is the nature of our world today. A breach of the values that George and I uphold in CLG occurred and a relationship of employment with Chris couldn’t continue." Source

Chris said, "There were several reasons that led to this decision, but the primary one was my failure to conduct myself as a coach in line with CLG’s and my own standards. In the end I breached the trust of both the organization and the team." Source

I have no idea what that means, but it's not performance and I don't think they're lying. It's one thing to leave because you didn't meet expectations and honestly, CLG should be thrilled with the summer split they had. By being very vague about the personal failings, it causes much more angst and speculation, and that can't be good for Chris.

[Olinser]

Performance wasn't the issue, according to both his and management's statements.

CLG: "It puts me in an awkward position to comment on an issue that, in my opinion, shouldn’t be a public issue. But such is the nature of our world today. A breach of the values that George and I uphold in CLG occurred and a relationship of employment with Chris couldn’t continue." Source

Chris said, "There were several reasons that led to this decision, but the primary one was my failure to conduct myself as a coach in line with CLG’s and my own standards. In the end I breached the trust of both the organization and the team." Source

I have no idea what that means, but it's not performance and I don't think they're lying. It's one thing to leave because you didn't meet expectations and honestly, CLG should be thrilled with the summer split they had. By being very vague about the personal failings, it causes much more angst and speculation, and that can't be good for Chris.

And he thought nobody would ever find out about that Phreak blow up doll.

[Olinser]

Last Whisper + Executioner's Calling = new item
Last Whisper + Giant Slayer = new item

So Giant Slayer is a new item too?

[Khallazar]

I apologize in advance for my big-ass OFF topic but...

can anyone tell me why isn't there a single DoTA2 thread while LOL ones seem to be thriving?

I'm in awe.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I'm guessing that LoL is more popular in the playground than DotA...

[Ivellius]

I apologize in advance for my big-ass OFF topic but...

can anyone tell me why isn't there a single DoTA2 thread while LOL ones seem to be thriving?

I'm in awe.

If it makes you feel better, Penny Arcade has a HotS thread that vastly outposts their fairly slow LoL thread.

But yeah, League is just one of the more popular games in this community.

Woo preseason changes (the people I play with won't even notice the removal of greens)

[Khallazar]

If it makes you feel better, Penny Arcade has a HotS thread that vastly outposts their fairly slow LoL thread.

But yeah, League is just one of the more popular games in this community.

Woo preseason changes (the people I play with won't even notice the removal of greens)

Oh boy.

I'm guessing that LoL is more popular in the playground than DotA...

But it seems to be waaaay out of proportion, I mean, LOL community IS bigger worldwide, but... not a single DoTA thread... I think I'll have to rise to the challenge one of these days and make one myself.


Anyways, thank you guise. Always nice to be welcomed like that.

[Lethologica]

There was a DotA thread, but it died last October due to inactivity.

[Reinboom]

So Giant Slayer is a new item too?

It is.
It scales up physical damage against targets with more health than you, up to +15% at a 500 health difference.

[Farix]

So much new information today, preseasons gonna be crazy. Props to the dev team for making the various adcs feel unique now, at least on paper. And of course for the vision cleanup that I know you did Reinboom.

Wanna see how all the new items affect the non-adcs though.

Woo word of Riot that triple passive proc Quinn mid is a thing, meta be damned. Now to just wait for everyone to forget Faker played midlaf and I can totally look original and not insane.

Quinn's rework Q, is it still the same skillshot or is it a point and click with an aoe? Cause it procs her passive mark now but only on the primary target, which is a little unclear if that's going to be the target the spell detonates on or the one it was clicked on.

[Reinboom]

And of course for the vision cleanup that I know you did Reinboom.

Wanna see how all the new items affect the non-adcs though.

Awww, praise for the vision cleanup, but reservations for my marksman itemization rework?

It appears that match history did a bad thing and has many of the details out now. This is missing some context (e.g. base stat changes), but hopefully should ease some concern?
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofleg...istory_thread/

[Olinser]

Oh boy.



But it seems to be waaaay out of proportion, I mean, LOL community IS bigger worldwide, but... not a single DoTA thread... I think I'll have to rise to the challenge one of these days and make one myself.


Anyways, thank you guise. Always nice to be welcomed like that.

It's not just bigger. It's an order of magnitude bigger.

Last month DOTA 2 averaged about 500,000 concurrent users per day (peaking at a little over 900,000 during the whole month).

http://steamcharts.com/app/570

Meanwhile League of Legends peaks at 7.5 MILLION concurrent players DAILY.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34474884

So it's really not surprising that few DOTA players are really around here.

[Farix]

Awww, praise for the vision cleanup, but reservations for my marksman itemization rework?

No reservations, just interest. Always look forward to new items and seeing how things settle down whenever a big change like this comes out. I'm interested to see how changes to things like Last Whisper being a component item plays out with the non-adc crowd.

[Siosilvar]

It's not just bigger. It's an order of magnitude bigger.

-snip-

At the same time, the average Dota player plays more of their game than the average League player. Obviously not enough to make up the total game time, but one would think that they'd be more invested in discussing the game as much as the super cereal players here are.

It probably does just come down to demographics of the site. More League players than Dota players, in part due to how many more folks play League. But if it were just about number of players... well, the Warhammer threads have been going for a long time and while I can't find sales numbers, the sheer time and money investment required to play means there are far fewer players than either of the two games.

[Darth Mario]

Don't forget the mumble server as a driving force in the longevity of this thread/community. (SELF PROMOTION WOO)

[mrcarter11]

A decent subset of the community that doesn't use the mumble server exists.

[Razgriez]

Awww, praise for the vision cleanup, but reservations for my marksman itemization rework?

It appears that match history did a bad thing and has many of the details out now. This is missing some context (e.g. base stat changes), but hopefully should ease some concern?
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofleg...istory_thread/

I was about to PM you about this after checking a match I just played about the Match History and noticed the Phantom Dancers I had purchased during the match being differently listed, but go figure, internet long beat me already to that.

That said, I'm very interested to see what happens come pre-season launch and full details. You all were not kidding in the new post about having some really interesting new choices in our item builds.

So some questions also for two of the changes announced: 1. Stealth Wards. Are they being completely removed from the game, and thus, any items which grant free Stealth Wards (i.E. Yellow Trinket/Green Upgrade, Sightstones, etc) will be using different wards. Or just the basic 75 Gold item from the shop? 2. The hinting at new refillable potions. Will these be like an actual item, similar to Crystalline Flask currently in game? Or will these be like Trinkets, and use up the Trinket slot/have it's own slot added?