Strong Female Protagonist II

[Vinyadan]

[Spojaz]

These are amazing.

[The Patterner]

I wonder how mr Kamasutra feels about animal testing?

Or if he is vegan?

I would kick a hell of a lot of puppies to the moon if it cured all leukemia in the world

[Vinyadan]

His answer about minorities is an answer to Alison's argument about few vs many, not really an expression of what he thinks about animals. Had Alison (Altison? ) given a different motivation, he would also have answered something else.

[Traab]

His answer about minorities is an answer to Alison's argument about few vs many, not really an expression of what he thinks about animals. Had Alison (Altison? ) given a different motivation, he would also have answered something else.

The proper response from allison should have been, "Are you equating minorities with animals?" Because hey, if he can shift the topic from puppy kicking to torturing minority groups for science, she can turn it right back at him and ask why he thinks minority groups are animals. Its called the defensive deflection game. The first person to stutter out a defensive argument loses. You maintain the volley by shifting the topic so the other person comes off as a monster.

[Vinyadan]

The proper response from allison should have been, "Are you equating minorities with animals?" Because hey, if he can shift the topic from puppy kicking to torturing minority groups for science, she can turn it right back at him and ask why he thinks minority groups are animals. Its called the defensive deflection game. The first person to stutter out a defensive argument loses. You maintain the volley by shifting the topic so the other person comes off as a monster.

I was thinking more in the lines of a philosophy lesson at school. The teacher will try to make the students think and elaborate logical processes. When a process is flawed, instead of saying "it's flawed", you make the student think about what he said by noticing an implication of his thought process. Then you can backtrack, find the flaw and work on a solution.

Alison's mistake was that she did not say "puppies are OK to kick if it cures people because pets matter less than people", instead she said "puppies to kick are few, ill people are many, numbers are on my side". But numbers don't really matter in this case, and the easiest way to show it was to propose something which is immediately perceived as blatantly wrong and deliberately offensive and allowed or even proposed as favourable by her reasoning.

A stupid (or flawed because it dodges the question by examining its meaning when the implicit sense is clear) answer to you question would be that there is no minority whose constituents aren't animals, since they all are human beings, all of which are animals.

But I can tell elections are near!

[Frozen_Feet]

Gurawara could easily deflect that back by asking, f.ex., "why'd you assume I see less value in animals than in humans?" Or by replying "mu".

[Morquard]

Moving back to the actual comic: Think Feral and Paladin met before? That look on both of them could mean "Oh ****, what is SHE doing here?". Or it could mean something else.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Loved the edited comics Keep them coming as long as inspiration flows, Vinyadan!

Moving back to the actual comic: Think Feral and Paladin met before? That look on both of them could mean "Oh ****, what is SHE doing here?". Or it could mean something else.

That something else being ham-fisted instantaneous sexual attraction. Or maybe that's just me looking at the comic through snark-tinted glasses.

[Morquard]

That something else being ham-fisted instantaneous sexual attraction. Or maybe that's just me looking at the comic through snark-tinted glasses.

No, that's pretty much what I meant. You just worded it nicer than I would have.

[137beth]

Hmm, I wonder if Lisa will be the one to deduce what Allison did? Which would also potentially mean her finding out that Al has been in contact with Menace the whole time

[Traab]

Eh I took it as an amusing joke. Yeah they find each other cute, the fact that dreamweaver started playing on her ipod was just the right amount of silly to make this amusing for me as its the quintessential lovestruck song for a certain period of movies. The only way it would have been better would have been to animate it so they are seeing each other move in slow motion surrounded by pink sparkly clouds or something.

[Lethologica]

Speculation was that either Feral or Paladin would have a big confrontation with Alison over Max and consent, right? Well...

[Traab]

Wow, did everyone just kinda forget about the comic, or was that just me? Yeah I will ignore the latest "update" as it violates every rule we have on this board to talk about it, but the previous one basically confirmed some things. I liked how lisa demonstrated that despite her best efforts to hide it, she was quite flustered and possibly interested in feral and her flirtations.

[Vinyadan]

Well, the previous page was not enraging, absurd or comical, it did not withhold information from the reader and I had no slay ideas, so I just had nothing to say.

About today yes, I had forgotten to read the comic.

[137beth]

New one today.

Now it just looks like Allison wants some escapism.

[Vinyadan]

Hookup time in Alizonia!

[Ibrinar]

I was thinking more in the lines of a philosophy lesson at school. The teacher will try to make the students think and elaborate logical processes. When a process is flawed, instead of saying "it's flawed", you make the student think about what he said by noticing an implication of his thought process. Then you can backtrack, find the flaw and work on a solution.

Alison's mistake was that she did not say "puppies are OK to kick if it cures people because pets matter less than people", instead she said "puppies to kick are few, ill people are many, numbers are on my side". But numbers don't really matter in this case, and the easiest way to show it was to propose something which is immediately perceived as blatantly wrong and deliberately offensive and allowed or even proposed as favourable by her reasoning.

A stupid (or flawed because it dodges the question by examining its meaning when the implicit sense is clear) answer to you question would be that there is no minority whose constituents aren't animals, since they all are human beings, all of which are animals.

But I can tell elections are near!

Resulting in your super powered pupil realizing that since their scenario in right yours must be too. Teaching you the dangers of using arguments like that when there is no objectively right morality you can refer to when the super powered girl takes a message you did not intend. Sadly you learned to late and now she has instituted the testing procedure.

(Seriously though, the argument isn't a strong counter to the sacrifice the few for the many argument. "The problem with that is choosing the few unfairly, because they are a minority. The sacrifices should be fairly distributed. I don't kick puppies because they are puppies, I kick them because they are the only option." Which of course has its own problems but point is isn't a checkmate argument where the other one will be unable to give a response.)

[137beth]

The non-ass boy returns!

[Vinyadan]

*gasp!* The beaaaaans!

[Officer Joy]

I checked in with the comic today, and sure Al feels bad, but the comic isn't punishing her for what she did to Max. And that is the writers choice. So I don't think I'll be checking the comic in the future. Still got Grrlpower for my superheroing needs.

[137beth]

I checked in with the comic today, and sure Al feels bad, but the comic isn't punishing her for what she did to Max. And that is the writers choice. So I don't think I'll be checking the comic in the future. Still got Grrlpower for my superheroing needs.

...but it's only just happened? Yea, it's been a few weeks real time, but there have really only been a handful of pages since Allison did what she did. So far, she hasn't run into any (non-guilt) repercussions, but I'd be surprised if it didn't come back to bite her soon. The pacing of this sequence will probably feel really different when read straight through in the archives (or compilation).

[virgileso]

This need for Al to be punished for what she did to Max feels like near-bloodthirst. She's done worse without repercussion, and has even specifically commented on it. Hell, Feral has admitted to worse behavior. Is it because the 'victim' is a morally bankrupt (arguably an active evil under some ethical models) white guy? Is it because a huge portion of literature that includes proactive metahuman activity paints such actors as unequivocal bad guys, and deviation from this standard doesn't sit well the reader?

[Traab]

This need for Al to be punished for what she did to Max feels like near-bloodthirst. She's done worse without repercussion, and has even specifically commented on it. Hell, Feral has admitted to worse behavior. Is it because the 'victim' is a morally bankrupt (arguably an active evil under some ethical models) white guy? Is it because a huge portion of literature that includes proactive metahuman activity paints such actors as unequivocal bad guys, and deviation from this standard doesn't sit well the reader?

Its because the writer is herself treating this as a big freaking deal to allison. A huge shattering of her morals and ethical outlook on life. I mean, I suppose the fact that nothing bad other than her discomfort happens could make for an interesting angle. "The ends justified the means! No karmic backlash! Everything turned out great! I guess that means it wasnt an evil thing to do! Maybe that means its ok to do it again!" Only to have it all come crashing down THEN would be a way to go.

And honestly, its human nature to want to see someone punished in an ironic or "fitting" way for their crimes. Have you ever read the comment section of a news article when someone gets found guilty of say, rape? "So and so should drop the soap a LOT" is the most common style of response. Yeah its unpleasant but its simple reality, people want others to suffer when they do something offensive. They just have less restraint in baying for blood, metaphorically speaking, when its a comic character and not a real person.

[Ibrinar]

I really hope she is not "punished", a comic that talks about morality so much really has no place for "see it was bad because it automatically lead to bad stuff happening". (Unless people just mean power amplifying guy working against her or stuff like that.) That would be a really simplistic/childish answer to why she should not use her to impose her ideals on others. The question is much more interesting if it does not automatically lead to karma ruining everything.

[Vinyadan]

She's done worse without repercussion, and has even specifically commented on it.

I don't remember these scenes, when was it?

[Lethologica]

I don't remember these scenes, when was it?

Feral terrorist incident. Also, the ensuing conversation with Cleaver.

[virgileso]

And honestly, its human nature to want to see someone punished in an ironic or "fitting" way for their crimes. Have you ever read the comment section of a news article when someone gets found guilty of say, rape? "So and so should drop the soap a LOT" is the most common style of response. Yeah its unpleasant but its simple reality, people want others to suffer when they do something offensive. They just have less restraint in baying for blood, metaphorically speaking, when its a comic character and not a real person.

I know that it happens, but I find it difficult to empathize with that mindset. I find the sentiment that a rapist should be raped while they're in jail to be abhorrent. Retribution is something I'm typically against unless it's got strong evidence supporting its efficacy at either reducing recidivism and/or discouraging others from enacting it.

[Traab]

On an unrelated note, the strip slay at the top of the page gets me every time. "Thats new." I dont know why, but every time I see it I laugh.

[Ibrinar]

And as teenage superhero she did not care about property damage, see when she threw a mech into a hospital. Granted she got "punished" for that by finding out she crushed someone making some prof hate her but that made sense since even with evacuation it is likely that you will sooner or later kill someone if you destroy buildings. But destroying buildings especially important ones like hospitals does significant damage even when they are empty. And given that she is almost invulnerable and very strong I am pretty sure she could have fought while trying to avoid such damage as much as possible. And nobody really told her to change the way she fights, she just felt guilty about it when something reminded her.