Mythos Homebrew Discussion III: Grievous Imbalance Is A Feature

[VoodooPaladin]

Voted for the Cynosure. I wanna see some fools get Geoffrey'd.

[Drunken Jesus]

Does this mean no more new 3.5 mythos classes from you Xefas?

[Xefas]

Does this mean no more new 3.5 mythos classes from you Xefas?

Not necessarily. But I won't be making any new 3.5 stuff until I buy a new PC, and it's further contingent on whether I'm able to recover the RPG folder from my old hard drive. (I mentioned this briefly a few pages back, in January, but my Christmas present from the universe was catastrophic computer failure.) If it turns out I lost everything, I'm not sure I can bring myself to rewrite it all. I had several classes at near completion, and many more at lesser stages of development, but with hours put into them nonetheless. Plus various supplementary Mythos (like the Mythic President, which I wrote two years ago, but forgot to post it the last two July 4ths and now the world may never get to see Crossing The Delaware Methodology and the Fifty Star Lariat, and the story of how Teddy Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and George Washington defeated the Sorcerer-King Napoleon, T-Rex Hitler, and the English).

This is why I've been futzing with other stuff. Among them, a stand alone system and setting for Mythos (Mythopoeia), and now Mythos for 5e.

[Theseventh]

You would be surprised how cheap data recovery is, and how much they can pull from a borked drive. That's assuming that it was a hardware failure like a shorted power supply or something. If it was a software issue like a virus or corrupted data chances are a bit lower, but still possible.

Either way, if you manage to recover it you should dump all of your 3.5 mythos stuff, finished or not, to an external cloud drive or something. Keep it safe for the future and let others see if should something terrible happen again we can rebuild from your ideas.

[dethkruzer]

now the world may never get to see Crossing The Delaware Methodology and the Fifty Star Lariat, and the story of how Teddy Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and George Washington defeated the Sorcerer-King Napoleon, T-Rex Hitler, and the English

Aww, now I'm actually kinda sad. That sounds amazing. Well, hopefully you can get something at least fished out of your hard drive.

[khadgar567]

Not necessarily. But I won't be making any new 3.5 stuff until I buy a new PC, and it's further contingent on whether I'm able to recover the RPG folder from my old hard drive. (I mentioned this briefly a few pages back, in January, but my Christmas present from the universe was catastrophic computer failure.) If it turns out I lost everything, I'm not sure I can bring myself to rewrite it all. I had several classes at near completion, and many more at lesser stages of development, but with hours put into them nonetheless. Plus various supplementary Mythos (like the Mythic President, which I wrote two years ago, but forgot to post it the last two July 4ths and now the world may never get to see Crossing The Delaware Methodology and the Fifty Star Lariat, and the story of how Teddy Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and George Washington defeated the Sorcerer-King Napoleon, T-Rex Hitler, and the English).

This is why I've been futzing with other stuff. Among them, a stand alone system and setting for Mythos (Mythopoeia), and now Mythos for 5e.

You would be surprised how cheap data recovery is, and how much they can pull from a borked drive. That's assuming that it was a hardware failure like a shorted power supply or something. If it was a software issue like a virus or corrupted data chances are a bit lower, but still possible.

Either way, if you manage to recover it you should dump all of your 3.5 mythos stuff, finished or not, to an external cloud drive or something. Keep it safe for the future and let others see if should something terrible happen again we can rebuild from your ideas.

If its from power then you are luck mate cuz all your files are intact in old disk just buy hdd drive connecting set and all your files back as normal

[Gideon Falcon]

I suppose that lost info includes the missing mythos from Olethrofex? There are a few that just have names but no description.

[Zale]

Has anyone thought of revisiting the Mythic Rogue archetype? From the compendium, the most complete and IMO best attempt was the Umbramendax, which just needed Exalted and a few more Legendary Mythos, and perhaps a few more excellencies. There was also an Ophidian mentioned in Xefas' upcoming gallery, but I can't quite tell if that's supposed to be the rogue or a shadowcaster (not that those are especially disparate ideas). Maybe if I end up getting enough ideas, I might try my own hand, but I'm not exactly seasoned.

Alright, I was thinking about a mythic thief. The primary themes were greed and how it's bad for you, with a series of mythos evolving into stealing abstract concepts and the like.

I didn't get super far, as some things came up, but I could post the work I had to a pastebin/google doc if someone wants to pick it over.

Some of the thought-theme characters were Vriska (Homestuck), Loki (Mythology) and Cio's old self (Kill Six Billion Demons).

The thematic quote I was thinking about using was actually a line from the last one, "Theiving is like a deadly poison to me. If I touch it, it will fill me up to the brim."

I was going to do a base-line capacity sweep, then go over it again with an eye to twisting it. Of course, it's a bit much to go on about as it's currently sitting at 3 half-done mythos and a bunch of one-line questionable ideas for later class features.

It's aiming for more of a class dungeoneering rogue/person who steals things than an assassin or shadow-master archetype. I'm pretty sure one of their mythos would probably end up being "Heist Planning Montage" themed ala the Anakito's Arete pool, but linked to a specific plan about how to infiltrate a place/obtain some object.

One of the high tier plans involved a class-feature pilfering ability.

Anyway, hope that's helpful in some way!

[GreaserFish]

So, I'm revisiting an old idea. I'm not sure if this is any good, and I don't have any ideas for basic/advanced manifestations yet. All I know is that the Anakitos is cool, but it doesn't feel enough like a paladin to satisfy my urge to smite the wicked and provide succor to the weak.

Spoiler: EXCEPTIONAL

Show

Heart's Eye Awakening
[Compassion]
Prerequisite : Two ranks in the Sense Motive skill.
Oft, the Martyr looked upon the state of the world and weeps for the injustice they saw there. All people suffer, they realized, and all people deserve a chance.

Upon taking this mythos, the following effect immediately activates.
You become deeply and intimately aware of the emotions and trauma of those around you, feeling it all as if it was your own.
Make a sense motive check. Roll three times and take the highest result.
In order to leave this state of heightened empathy, you must make a will save as a move action against the sense motive check you just made.
A natural twenty will always succeed in bringing you down from the empathy.
Every round you fail to come down from this state, you take a stacking -2 morale penalty to all rolls other than your will save to leave the state, to a maximum of -10.
Every minute that passes after leaving the state removes one -2 penalty from the stack.
Once you have recovered from the initial experience of feeling the emotions of the people around you, you may attempt to attune your emotions with another creature.
In order to attune a creature, it must have a mind and be capable of experiencing emotion.
Make a sense motive check against any creature that qualifies and is within your line of sight.
That creature opposes your check with a will save.
If your check is higher, you gain a temporary understanding of that creature's emotions and a +2 circumstances bonus on any diplomacy/bluff/handle animal checks against that creature, whichever is applicable.
If your check is higher by at least four points, you pierce deeper into that creature's heart and gain an understanding of who they are as a person/monster/sentient bulldog/etc.
You gain another, permanent +2 circumstance bonus on any rolls where understanding that creature's motivations and emotions would be useful.
Understanding is a two-way street, however, and the attuned creature gains a +2 circumstances bonus to the same rolls.
If the creature succeeds in rolling higher, then you gain no special insight into its mind.
If it succeeds by four or more points or rolls a nat 20, it becomes aware of the foreign presence in its mind.
Creatures capable of using psionics or other mental abilities can trace the effect back to you.
Regardless of whether or not they are aware of the connection, the attuned creature is not aware of the sway they now hold over your emotions.
The connection lasts for a number of rounds equal to twice your wisdom modifier. At the end of the connection, the attunement and temporary bonuses end.

[Gideon Falcon]

So, I'm revisiting an old idea. I'm not sure if this is any good, and I don't have any ideas for basic/advanced manifestations yet. All I know is that the Anakitos is cool, but it doesn't feel enough like a paladin to satisfy my urge to smite the wicked and provide succor to the weak.

Spoiler: EXCEPTIONAL

Show

Heart's Eye Awakening
[Compassion]
Prerequisite : Two ranks in the Sense Motive skill.
Oft, the Martyr looked upon the state of the world and weeps for the injustice they saw there. All people suffer, they realized, and all people deserve a chance.

Upon taking this mythos, the following effect immediately activates.
You become deeply and intimately aware of the emotions and trauma of those around you, feeling it all as if it was your own.
Make a sense motive check. Roll three times and take the highest result.
In order to leave this state of heightened empathy, you must make a will save as a move action against the sense motive check you just made.
A natural twenty will always succeed in bringing you down from the empathy.
Every round you fail to come down from this state, you take a stacking -2 morale penalty to all rolls other than your will save to leave the state, to a maximum of -10.
Every minute that passes after leaving the state removes one -2 penalty from the stack.
Once you have recovered from the initial experience of feeling the emotions of the people around you, you may attempt to attune your emotions with another creature.
In order to attune a creature, it must have a mind and be capable of experiencing emotion.
Make a sense motive check against any creature that qualifies and is within your line of sight.
That creature opposes your check with a will save.
If your check is higher, you gain a temporary understanding of that creature's emotions and a +2 circumstances bonus on any diplomacy/bluff/handle animal checks against that creature, whichever is applicable.
If your check is higher by at least four points, you pierce deeper into that creature's heart and gain an understanding of who they are as a person/monster/sentient bulldog/etc.
You gain another, permanent +2 circumstance bonus on any rolls where understanding that creature's motivations and emotions would be useful.
Understanding is a two-way street, however, and the attuned creature gains a +2 circumstances bonus to the same rolls.
If the creature succeeds in rolling higher, then you gain no special insight into its mind.
If it succeeds by four or more points or rolls a nat 20, it becomes aware of the foreign presence in its mind.
Creatures capable of using psionics or other mental abilities can trace the effect back to you.
Regardless of whether or not they are aware of the connection, the attuned creature is not aware of the sway they now hold over your emotions.
The connection lasts for a number of rounds equal to twice your wisdom modifier. At the end of the connection, the attunement and temporary bonuses end.

If you're looking for a more classical Paladin, the Agios by Lanth Sor is more up your alley. It allows you to protect your allies with the best of them, and has a number of abilities to shell out alignment-based damage for maximum smitage. It doesn't have as much healing, save for abilities that require the ally in question to hit a target to get their healing, but it can transfer any defensive bonus to nearby allies, and even gets the classical Aura of Courage. Your Mythos would fit with that class to an absolute T.

[roko10]

To those who are still unaware, Xefas has released a bunch of cool Mythos classes for 5E. Hell, even I got in on the fun! Go check them out.

[Inevitability]

I'm definitely going to jump on the proverbial 5e bandwagon and brew up something of my own soon.

[Theseventh]

I'l be honest. Sad to see the jump to 5e. I don't care about 5e at all and I know this is going to mortally wound, or at the very least slow, the continued development of the 3.5 stuff. Call me selfish I guess.

Reminds me of Gramarie all over again. Old system was not done, it had it's flaws yes. But then everyone decided to jump ship to begin working on a new version that never panned out and now both are dead. Sad times.

[ImperatorV]

Eh we already have 3 Xefas classes and 1 non-Xefas. I don't see this one dying out with the switch to 5e, in fact it might inspire people to make new material, which can be back-ported to 3.5 by people who still prefer that system.

Also, Grammarie died mostly because it was too darn complicated, and everything was so interconnected that it all had to be finished to be playable. A problem of too much work and not enough results. Mythos, especially the 5e version, is made in smaller chunks that are easier to handle, and we already have enough for a full party (Swordbearer frontline + Cynosure leader + Mechanikos crafter + a regular full caster works really well as a standard party).

[Gideon Falcon]

The 5e Mythos classes aren't easily back-converted, though- they have very specific abilities, rather than the expansive list of Mythos that most classes have available to them. I'm still holding out that some of the suggestions people have made for harddrive recovery will be able to help Xefas get his old docs back.

[roko10]

The 5e Mythos classes aren't easily back-converted, though- they have very specific abilities, rather than the expansive list of Mythos that most classes have available to them. I'm still holding out that some of the suggestions people have made for harddrive recovery will be able to help Xefas get his old docs back.

As a counterpoint, however, this also means that the 5e Mythos classes can be produced way faster than the 3.5e classes. Heck, I managed to finish up the newly minted Kalthorros in roughly a day compared to the week that it took to get the original Kalthorros up in its unfinished state.

Beside that, most of the 3.5e Mythos allows some specific thing that's normally impossible for "mundanes" to do in 3.5e thanks to it "have a rule for everything" mindset, something that 5e notably lacks. Therefore, 5e Mythos can get away with a lower amount of options rather than the bucketlist granted by the 3.5e Mythos.

On a completely unrelelated note, I can't wait to see the Anakitos getting converted to 5e. It's Fetters (especially the DIY Code of Conduct) would be an absolutely fantastic way to trigger Resonance, instead of now where I kind of feel it's kind of a straitjacket.

[Gideon Falcon]

Still, I really hope Xefas can get his info back. I enjoy 5e well enough, but I vastly prefer 3.5.

[Xefas]

A new 5e Mythos Class is coming in the next day or two. Its 3.5 incarnation never came to be, but was probably the single most requested class of all those in the imgur album. After this class, I'm hoping to focus a bit on polishing the four I've got before pushing out new ones.

A preview:

Spoiler

Show

Aside The Light Of Truth
"I Am." said the Empyrean, and so it was that she existed. And outlined by the light of that universal truth, the All-Shadow whispered, "I Am Not." and by the lie of his beginning, he entered false existence. In that act was the genesis of all deceit.

Choose one of the following three abilities to acquire.

Insidious Gossip Infection
When you use the Deception skill to tell someone something emotionally manipulative, misleading, or false, you may activate this ability to transform your lie into an insidious mental parasite, giving it a particular identity to seek out. Your Deception automatically fails against its original target, who does not believe what you've said, but your parasite scrambles inside of its shadow and lurks there, undetected.

The next time the infected person is nearby whomever's identity you gave the parasite, they will be compelled to repeat your parasitic falsehood to them, secretly, as if gossiping. Your original Deception check is then applied to this newest person, who may very well be deceived into believing it is true. The parasite then dies, having fulfilled its task. If it would be unusual for the parasite's host to gossip with its intended recipient (for example, a lesser noble whispering in the king's ear at court), the host may be allowed a Charisma saving throw to resist the compulsion, at which point the parasite dies anyway.

One of these mental parasites can survive a maximum of (your Charisma modifier) weeks in wait, before it expires prematurely.

Two-Faced Instigator Method
Miscommunications happen every day. Two people with the best of intentions argue over nothing, incited by slightly misplaced semantics or a misheard word. People with fundamentally identical beliefs fight with one another over small differences in their ideology's window-dressing. The All-Shadow is not a victim of miscommunication, he is its progenitor, and it is his weapon - a broken sword that cuts down nations without ever being drawn.

When you speak, you may choose to say two things. One is your primary message, which is heard by everyone by default. One is your secondary message, which replaces your primary message for specific individuals that you mentally target (you must be aware of a person's presence to target them, though you need not necessarily see them).

If both of your messages are largely similar, but for a few small changes, there is no saving throw. If your messages are wildly different, then you must make a Deception check against your audiences in order to keep your words straight between them; a failed check means that someone has realizes you're trying to dupe them, though they don't necessarily know how, why, or into what.

For example, you might address a senate divided into three parties. You begin speaking, delivering a default message of supporting a particular piece of legislature, which you choose for the progressive and moderate parties to hear, as well as anyone who happens to be wandering about whose presence you are unaware of and are not specifically targeting - however, you choose for the traditionalist party to hear your secondary message, which is that you vehemently oppose the same piece of legislature. Because both messages are about the same thing, just slightly different, you need not make a Deception check.

For a second example, you might be talking to a man in his home, aware that his wife is in the next room, listening. The default message you give for all to hear is a suggestion that you and the man go hunting this weekend, to which he is heartily in favor of. The secondary message, which only the wife hears, is a conspiratorial plot to help her husband murder her - she hears this, as well as her husband's excitement at doing so this weekend. Because these messages are quite different, you must make a Deception check opposed by both people. If the husband succeeds in opposition, he might get the impression that this hunting trip suggestion is really innuendo about how much you hate his wife, while the wife succeeding might divulge to her that you're saying a lot of horrible things about her, but that her husband has nothing to do with it and is talking past you about something else.

Society-Felling Apathy Scythe
As an action, you may make a Deception check targeting everyone that has just witnessed a horrible, scandalous, socially unacceptable act that you were present for. As part of the check, you do not necessarily tell a lie, but rather inform everyone that they would personally be better off if they simply ignore what has just transpired - to talk about it would only invite personal inconvenience upon them.

Those that fail to oppose the check are still very much aware that the act transpired, but will not talk about it with anyone unless they are directly facing imminent death in retribution for not speaking of it. They will deny with every fiber of their being that they saw anything at all, swear to their gods that they weren't there, and pretend for the rest of their life that what they're doing is okay. You become mentally aware of anyone targeted by this ability that succeeded in opposing your check, but your targets are also aware that you'll know if they aren't convinced. Some bystanders will intentionally fail the check to avoid your wrath, if they suspect you have wrath to give.

For example, you stab a drunk to death in the middle of a crowded bar and then activate this ability. You tell everyone that, if they don't just turn around and go back about their business, they're putting themselves at risk for the same. "You forget a thousand things every day. Make sure this is one of them." Several people fail their opposed check but some succeed. You grab one of the ones who succeeded and stab them to death too, then activate the ability again. This time, no one succeeds; imagine that. An hour later, a few new faces walk in, see the bodies, and run to the town guard. The guards show up, question everyone, but mysteriously no one saw anything; the bodies just appeared covered in stab wounds for no reason. The guards start roughing up the barkeep, breaking a few stools, smashing some glasses, making threats, but he swears nothing like that happened in his bar. Meanwhile, you hang out in the corner making everyone super uncomfortable.

[PeacefulOak]

Iiiiinteresting!

I'm excited to see how it plays out!

[spwack]

Help. I want them all.

A couple points: "the original host may be allowed a Charisma saving throw to resist the compulsion" might be a little more straightforward. I feel like Insidious Gossip Infection is very accurate and targeted. Fair enough. But wouldn't it be cool if it was a viral vector more than anything, with a vague predisposition to reach a certain ear? Not sure how that would work. It can pass between your Charisma modifier connections? Coal-boy to servant to butler to lord to noble to king?

[Xefas]

Help. I want them all.

The whole class went up earlier today, by the way (I get the impression that some people check this thread in preference to scanning through all the new board submissions, so in the future, I'll endeavor to announce these things a bit better).

A couple points: "the original host may be allowed a Charisma saving throw to resist the compulsion" might be a little more straightforward. I feel like Insidious Gossip Infection is very accurate and targeted. Fair enough. But wouldn't it be cool if it was a viral vector more than anything, with a vague predisposition to reach a certain ear? Not sure how that would work. It can pass between your Charisma modifier connections? Coal-boy to servant to butler to lord to noble to king?

Funny you should suggest that. The first version of that ability was called "Memetic Gossip Infection" and worked like an indiscriminate deception disease. But I felt it was a bit strong and also that a pinpoint strike more fit the Adversary's adversarial nature. I'm not against adding in a more viral ability at some point, though (theoretically, each class still has 10 more levels for me to play with).

[Lanth Sor]

Has anyone thought of revisiting the Mythic Rogue archetype? From the compendium, the most complete and IMO best attempt was the Umbramendax, which just needed Exalted and a few more Legendary Mythos, and perhaps a few more excellencies. There was also an Ophidian mentioned in Xefas' upcoming gallery, but I can't quite tell if that's supposed to be the rogue or a shadowcaster (not that those are especially disparate ideas). Maybe if I end up getting enough ideas, I might try my own hand, but I'm not exactly seasoned.

I support this idea i really liked the place int was going with the class but he NINJA POOF BALLED, and Seasoning happens through doing.

[dragonjek]

I've looked at the descriptions of the new Mythos classes, but they seem incredibly lacking. The zest and rich history you class authors normally bring to Mythos classes isn't present. As it was, a DM could just say that something along the lines of "nope, no Titans or Lawbringers, these are basically just super-classes" if their campaign world didn't fit the history of the Mythos.

Anyways, I really hope that you creator sorts do backport the new 5e classes to 3.5. Although play is smoother and easier in 5e and it's quicker to build classes and characters, I overall find 5e classes to be lacking in... I suppose you could say "potential".

Also... what happened to the awesome character images you normally provide? Considering that at least Xefas has already made them over on his site, I don't see why they wouldn't be there.

[VoodooPaladin]

I've looked at the descriptions of the new Mythos classes, but they seem incredibly lacking.

Are you referring to the 5e ones, or the 3.5 non-Xefas ones?

[Lanth Sor]

Will be updating Compendium for new 5E content tonight. Please link threads i miss here.

[Xefas]

I've looked at the descriptions of the new Mythos classes, but they seem incredibly lacking. The zest and rich history you class authors normally bring to Mythos classes isn't present. As it was, a DM could just say that something along the lines of "nope, no Titans or Lawbringers, these are basically just super-classes" if their campaign world didn't fit the history of the Mythos.

Your displeasure is noted. If you could give me an example of something a 3.5 class had that you particularly enjoyed that the 5e classes do not have an analogue to, perhaps I can find a way to include more such things in the future.

If it's just the stories of the Myths interacting with each other - perhaps I can make a central thread for that, as they're edition-neutral and not necessary to know to actually use the classes.

Also... what happened to the awesome character images you normally provide? Considering that at least Xefas has already made them over on his site, I don't see why they wouldn't be there.

I want to do something different with them for 5e. But I've got no image editing software anymore!

Hopefully that will also be something rectified soon.

Will be updating Compendium for new 5E content tonight. Please link threads i miss here.

Thank you for maintaining this compendium, by the way. I think you've done a good job with it.

[roko10]

Quick question, which ability score is more fitting for a writer; Intelligence or Wisdom?

This is totally just a random question and not foreshadowing for a new 5e/3.5e class at all. No, really.

[Tacitus]

I'd imagine it depends what you're writing. Technical manuals and history, fantasy and mystery, romance and propaganda. Where does your pen take you?

[Gideon Falcon]

Is anyone still working on the 3.5 Mythos classes? I myself have had some ideas to flesh out the incomplete Umbramendax using, among other things, some materials from Xefas' Adversary.

[PeacefulOak]

My Eoteras is still in progress, whenever I have time and inspiration.

Check the Compendium, message the appropriate user to see if they're OK with you assisting/taking over, and go from there!