Simple RAW thread for 3.5 #31. By now, your question has probably been answered.

[Troacctid]

|Q 679:

If the base animal for a lycanthrope has a subtype, does the lycanthrope gain that subtype?

A679: The lycanthrope template contains the following wording:

I can only imagine that the base animal's statistics include its subtype, so you would gain it when in animal or hybrid form, though nothing in the entry mentions subtypes specifically.

Correction: the lycanthrope template adds the shapechanger subtype, but does not otherwise change the base creature's type. Nor does the alternate form special ability, with the exception of the aquatic subtype, which you will gain in animal form if the base animal has it.

The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Correction: the lycanthrope template adds the shapechanger subtype, but does not otherwise change the base creature's type. Nor does the alternate form special ability, with the exception of the aquatic subtype, which you will gain in animal form if the base animal has it.

So you are under the impression that an animal's stat block doesn't include its subtype, and that it doesn't specify the shapechanger subtype as an addition on top of that?

[Troacctid]

So you are under the impression that an animal's stat block doesn't include its subtype, and that it doesn't specify the shapechanger subtype as an addition on top of that?

Well...yeah. I already cited my source for it. The rules say that you retain your own type and subtypes while transformed, so that's what happens. I'm looking at the lycanthrope statblocks right now, and each of them has the base creature's type and subtypes in animal form.

[Celaya]

Q680

How does the naming convention of Tibbits(Dragon Compendium Vol. 1 p. 21) work post childhood? The parts I'm most confused about are "When a tibbit comes of age she adopts a name of her choice. Tibbits tend to pick names from other folk, usually based solely on the sound," and "As a tibbit travels the world, she adopts a surname that reflects her experiences and important deeds. A tibbit usually changes her surname after such an event, but her true name uses all of her adopted surnames from childhood onward, and not just her latest one. "

[Troacctid]

Q680

How does the naming convention of Tibbits(Dragon Compendium Vol. 1 p. 21) work post childhood? The parts I'm most confused about are "When a tibbit comes of age she adopts a name of her choice. Tibbits tend to pick names from other folk, usually based solely on the sound," and "As a tibbit travels the world, she adopts a surname that reflects her experiences and important deeds. A tibbit usually changes her surname after such an event, but her true name uses all of her adopted surnames from childhood onward, and not just her latest one. "

Tibbits choose their own names. They pick a first name that they like the sound of. For their last names, they pick names that reflect their experiences and adventures. As they have more adventures, they often change their last names, so the bard Fyrek Spellsinger might change his name to Fyrek Giantslayer after slaying a giant, for example. Fyrek would also have a long-form name that includes every last name he's ever taken, so in some contexts (i.e. when among other tibbits) he might introduce himself as Fyrek Rockhopper Spellsinger Giantslayer.

[Sian]

Correction: the lycanthrope template adds the shapechanger subtype, but does not otherwise change the base creature's type. Nor does the alternate form special ability, with the exception of the aquatic subtype, which you will gain in animal form if the base animal has it.

Dispute: By the time of Lycanthrope's writing there weren't any animals with a any subtypes other than Aquatic. At this time in 3.5 there were very few subtypes, elements (of which if they were put on something that would otherwise classify as animal, was changed to Magical beasts), Aquatic and Shapeshifter, it was first a few years down the line that subtypes started being used much more commonly.

[Troacctid]

Dispute: By the time of Lycanthrope's writing there weren't any animals with a any subtypes other than Aquatic. At this time in 3.5 there were very few subtypes, elements (of which if they were put on something that would otherwise classify as animal, was changed to Magical beasts), Aquatic and Shapeshifter, it was first a few years down the line that subtypes started being used much more commonly.

How is this relevant to the question? It does not change the fact that alternate form does not grant you the subtypes of the form you assume, other than the aquatic subtype. The aquatic subtype is not even close to the only subtype in the Monster Manual either—the glossary alone lists 20, and that doesn't include subtypes such as human, elf, and gnome—so I really don't see what you're trying to say here.

[TIPOT]

Q681a

As the saving dc for poisons is based on 10+1/2HD+con does the dc for animal companions and/or familiars poisons increase with level (as they gain hd)?

Q681b

Is it possible to "milk" your familiar or animal companion for venom and turn that venom into a usable poison?

Q681c
Assuming it is possible, if you temporarily enhanced the constitution of an animal companion before harvesting the poison would the dc stay increased?

[Andezzar]

A 681

a) Yes. The Familiar however does not technically gain HD, but uses the master's HD to calculate such things.

b) Yes. Animal companions are normal animals except for the noted changes. There is no rule saying their poison cannot be extracted. the same goes for familiars except that their type changes to magical beast.

c) Ask your DM. There are no rules for modified poisons.

[Sian]

so I really don't see what you're trying to say here.

That Aquatic and Shapeshifter were the only two Subtypes that Animals had for the longest time, as the rest of them de-facto made the animals in question be classified as Magical Beasts

[Troacctid]

b) Yes. Animal companions are normal animals except for the noted changes. There is no rule saying their poison cannot be extracted. the same goes for familiars except that their type changes to magical beast.

Additionally, according to Complete Scoundrel's rules for Craft (poisonmaking), having the materials on hand when crafting poison reduces the cost. Milking an animal for poison should garner this cost reduction.

There's also an issue of Dragon Magazine with more detailed rules on extracting poison from creatures, but I don't remember which one.

That Aquatic and Shapeshifter were the only two Subtypes that Animals had for the longest time, as the rest of them de-facto made the animals in question be classified as Magical Beasts

Regardless, this has no bearing on the alternate form special ability.

[alexisXcore]

Q 682

3.5
im a elf rogue and my rolls SUCKED HARD, because reasons i decided to use them and they are

STR 10
DEX 15
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 11
CHA 9

Then, after elf modifiers i got dex to 17 and con to 10, so... can you give any advice in what my role should be in my group? i feel like im way to fragile so im planing on focusing on bow and dipping in some classes, my options are:

-Ranger 5, to get some archery feats, utility and animal companion
-Master of Masks 1-3, maybe a couple of lvls so i can get 2 or 3 mask so i dont have to rely on the wizard for some spells
-Fighter 2, just for the feats

the thing that annoys me is that i dont have access to any spellcasting abilities because im avarage AF

btw, we are just starting at lvl1, the other two players are a elf fighter and half elf wizard

[Debatra]

Q 682

3.5
im a elf rogue and my rolls SUCKED HARD, because reasons i decided to use them and they are

STR 10
DEX 15
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 11
CHA 9

Then, after elf modifiers i got dex to 17 and con to 10, so... can you give any advice in what my role should be in my group? i feel like im way to fragile so im planing on focusing on bow and dipping in some classes, my options are:

-Ranger 5, to get some archery feats, utility and animal companion
-Master of Masks 1-3, maybe a couple of lvls so i can get 2 or 3 mask so i dont have to rely on the wizard for some spells
-Fighter 2, just for the feats

the thing that annoys me is that i dont have access to any spellcasting abilities because im avarage AF

btw, we are just starting at lvl1, the other two players are a elf fighter and half elf wizard

This is beyond the scope of this thread. This is a thread for RAW (Rules As Written), not for character building.

[Darrin]

How is this relevant to the question? It does not change the fact that alternate form does not grant you the subtypes of the form you assume, other than the aquatic subtype. The aquatic subtype is not even close to the only subtype in the Monster Manual either—the glossary alone lists 20, and that doesn't include subtypes such as human, elf, and gnome—so I really don't see what you're trying to say here.

A. 679 (Continued):

I have been looking at this for the last few days, because I can't see any evidence that a creature with multiple forms only has certain subtypes in certain forms. From what I can determine from the Monster Manuals, if one form of a creature has a subtype, all forms for that creature have the same subtype. For example, an Imp using his alternate form can change into a rat or a boar, and while in those forms, he still retains the evil, extraplanar, and lawful subtypes.

Lycanthrope should work the same way. If the base animal has an alignment or energy-based subtype, then that subtype should be present in all the lycanthrope's other forms. However, the point here is somewhat moot, as there are no animals with those sorts of subtypes.

There is, however, at least one animal in print with the dragonblood subtype. So there's a valid question there, if that's the base animal for the lycanthrope, does the dragonblood subtype appear in the hybrid and humanoid forms? I'm inclined to say "Yes", but I have not found an obvious ironclad general rule that says such a thing.

[Troacctid]

A. 679 (Continued):

I have been looking at this for the last few days, because I can't see any evidence that a creature with multiple forms only has certain subtypes in certain forms. From what I can determine from the Monster Manuals, if one form of a creature has a subtype, all forms for that creature have the same subtype. For example, an Imp using his alternate form can change into a rat or a boar, and while in those forms, he still retains the evil, extraplanar, and lawful subtypes.

Lycanthrope should work the same way. If the base animal has an alignment or energy-based subtype, then that subtype should be present in all the lycanthrope's other forms. However, the point here is somewhat moot, as there are no animals with those sorts of subtypes.

There is, however, at least one animal in print with the dragonblood subtype. So there's a valid question there, if that's the base animal for the lycanthrope, does the dragonblood subtype appear in the hybrid and humanoid forms? I'm inclined to say "Yes", but I have not found an obvious ironclad general rule that says such a thing.

The answer to this question from a general sense depends on what your form-changing ability is based on.

• If it is based on alter self, your type and subtypes remain the same regardless of your new form's type and subtypes.
• If it is based on polymorph, your type and subtypes change to match the new form.
• If it is based on the alternate form special ability, you gain the aquatic subtype if the new form has it, but your type and subtypes are otherwise unchanged.
• If it is based on the change shape special ability, your type and subtypes remain the same regardless of your new form's type and subtypes.
• If it is a generic polymorph subschool effect (not based on polymorph or alter self), you gain the type and subtypes of the new form and lose your previous type and subtypes, unless otherwise stated.
• If it is none of the above, refer to the specific text.

In the case of lycanthropes, it is based on alternate form, so you gain the aquatic subtype if the animal has it, but you otherwise retain your original type and subtypes.

Yes, there are a lot of different shapeshifting effects and it is very confusing.

[Darrin]

The answer to this question from a general sense depends on what your form-changing ability is based on.

I understand that, but the question regarding dragonblood remains: If I am making a lycanthrope based on an animal that has the dragonblood subtype, then do my humanoid and hybrid forms also have the dragonblood subtype, or is that subtype only present in my animal form?

I am inclined to say that the subtype from the base animal applies to all forms, because I can't see any examples where a creature with multiple forms only has a subtype in one of those forms. But I'm having trouble finding an obvious general rule.

[Troacctid]

I understand that, but the question regarding dragonblood remains: If I am making a lycanthrope based on an animal that has the dragonblood subtype, then do my humanoid and hybrid forms also have the dragonblood subtype, or is that subtype only present in my animal form?

I am inclined to say that the subtype from the base animal applies to all forms, because I can't see any examples where a creature with multiple forms only has a subtype in one of those forms.

So to answer this follow-up question, let's look at three example lycanthropes and their types and subtypes in each form. The first is an orc were-shark, whose lycanthropy is based on an aquatic animal. The second is an orc were-phynxkin, whose lycanthropy is based on a dragonblooded animal. The third is a mere werewolf, but this time a frostblood orc rather than a standard orc, so that it has the dragonblood subtype naturally.

Creature	Humanoid form	Hybrid form	Animal form
Orc were-shark	Humanoid (orc, shapeshifter)	Humanoid (orc, shapeshifter)	Humanoid (orc, shapeshifter, aquatic)
Orc were-phynxkin	Humanoid (orc, shapeshifter)	Humanoid (orc, shapeshifter)	Humanoid (orc, shapeshifter)
Frostblood orc werewolf	Humanoid (orc, shapeshifter, dragonblood)	Humanoid (orc, shapeshifter, dragonblood)	Humanoid (orc, shapeshifter, dragonblood)

As you can see, the creature's types and subtypes remain unchanged regardless of its forms, with the exception of the were-shark in animal form, which gains the aquatic subtype as per the alternate form rules, which I cited above. The were-phynxkin does not gain the dragonblood subtype, but neither does the werewolf lose it.

[Thurbane]

Q 683

Are there any methods to key Ranger casting off a stat other than Wis? (Preferably CHA, and preferably without using Prestige Ranger).

[Troacctid]

Q 683

Are there any methods to key Ranger casting off a stat other than Wis? (Preferably CHA, and preferably without using Prestige Ranger).

The only way to do this using first-party material is with Tainted Scholar or Tainted Sorcerer, both of which key your spellcasting off of your taint score, or with Prestige Ranger, as you said. You can also come close with Spirit Speaker from Dragon #323, which has Cha-based ranger spellcasting but isn't actually a ranger. (I may be forgetting something, but switching casting stats is so rare as to be almost unheard of in this edition, so I don't think I am.)

[BilltheCynic]

Q684

If Alice were to cast a charm spell on Bob and Bob did not see or hear Alice cast the spell but succeeded on his will save, would Bob be aware that someone had tried to charm him?

[Khedrac]

A 684 If a character makes a successful Will Save then they are aware that they made a Will Save.
Without enough skill at Spellcraft a character would not know the details of the spell (if spell it was) that they resisted..

[Thurbane]

The only way to do this using first-party material is with Tainted Scholar or Tainted Sorcerer, both of which key your spellcasting off of your taint score, or with Prestige Ranger, as you said. You can also come close with Spirit Speaker from Dragon #323, which has Cha-based ranger spellcasting but isn't actually a ranger. (I may be forgetting something, but switching casting stats is so rare as to be almost unheard of in this edition, so I don't think I am.)

Q 685

What are some ways for a Ranger (again, non-prestige base class variety) to get access to the Luck domain?

[Troacctid]

Q 685

What are some ways for a Ranger (again, non-prestige base class variety) to get access to the Luck domain?

A ranger could, for example, take levels in Contemplative, Divine Disciple, Sovereign Speaker, or Divine Emissary. Depending on what, specifically, you want it for, there may also be other ways that would work.

[Thurbane]

A ranger could, for example, take levels in Contemplative, Divine Disciple, Sovereign Speaker, or Divine Emissary. Depending on what, specifically, you want it for, there may also be other ways that would work.

Q 685 cont.

Primarily for the domain ability (which I know can be emulated by other means) and secondarily so I can memorize the domain spells in my Ranger slots.

[Troacctid]

Q 685 cont.

Primarily for the domain ability (which I know can be emulated by other means) and secondarily so I can memorize the domain spells in my Ranger slots.

The domain ability can be gained via the Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment) feat; the higher-order ability allows you to cast spells from the domain a limited number of times. Eye of Horus-Re gives access to aid via the Good domain, but not entropic shield. (Protection from energy and freedom of movement are, of course, already on the ranger spell list.)

[Thurbane]

Thanks again for your help, top notch as always.

[kkplx]

Q686
Does sakkratar's triple strike work for creatures using natural attacks?
What about unarmed strikes?
Or does it require the affected creatures to use manufactured weapons?

[Qc Storm]

Q687

Does Close Wound work on yourself? What if it in response of yourself being knocked below 0 HP?

[kkplx]

Q687

Does Close Wound work on yourself? What if it in response of yourself being knocked below 0 HP?

As an immediate action it interrupts the action it is cast after, effectively making it so you never dip into unconsciousness.
Also, target is "one creature", so yes, you can target yourself.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Q 683

Are there any methods to key Ranger casting off a stat other than Wis? (Preferably CHA, and preferably without using Prestige Ranger).

A683: If your DM allows it, Bastards & Bloodlines has the 1st level only Lost Traditions feat. Choose a class and an ability score (not just a mental one). You key the chosen class's spellcasting off the chosen ability score.

Illumians can also change the ability score they use to determine bonus spells as a racial feature.