The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index

[Peelee]

Lest I be accurately accused of procrastinating....Here's how the entries are looking:

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Proposed Additions
On Hinjo and Miko "Cousin" is an informal term of address, they aren't legally related.	#1122	2018-05-21	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
Why the Giant Doesn't Use Print-On-Demand "You would be paying more for worse books...."	#1119	2018-05-03	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
There is no OotS "Series Bible"	#1117	2018-04-17	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
Other eBooks The Giant has "every intention of releasing all the regular books in the series as PDFs", and possibly Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales eventually.	#1066	2017-02-21	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
Proposed Removals
"How the Paladin Got His Scar" Will Probably Get a Full Book Release of Some Sort And is almost as long as "On the Origins of PCs".	#1041	2016-06-29	Tentative, removals are always voted on.

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The Hinjo and Miko one would naturally end up in a new spoiler, inside the "Spoilers from Book/PDF Content" category. I suppose the question is if we title it for How the Paladin Got his Scar...for Good Deeds Gone Unpunished...for How the Paladin Got his Scar under Good Deeds Gone Unpunished...or for turtles all the way down.

Looks good to me.

(The banana plants would have to be on the edges of the turtles' shells, obviously; so it's bananas all the way up the turtles all the way down....So instead of Snakes and Ladders, it'd be Turtles and Bananas. Gravity-defying bananas, since normally slipping on a banana peel makes one fall down....)

This thread is bananas!

[unbeliever536]

The Hinjo and Miko one would naturally end up in a new spoiler, inside the "Spoilers from Book/PDF Content" category. I suppose the question is if we title it for How the Paladin Got his Scar...for Good Deeds Gone Unpunished...for How the Paladin Got his Scar under Good Deeds Gone Unpunished...or for turtles all the way down.

(The banana plants would have to be on the edges of the turtles' shells, obviously; so it's bananas all the way up the turtles all the way down....So instead of Snakes and Ladders, it'd be Turtles and Bananas. Gravity-defying bananas, since normally slipping on a banana peel makes one fall down....)

I'd say the spoiler should be marked for HtPGhS, rather than GDGU; in general I think spoilers should be marked for the story (or book, for main comic spoilers) they spoil, since we now have stories that are available in multiple distinct ways. After all, consider someone who backed the kickstarter but didn't immediately purchase GDGU: they likely don't care about spoilers for Spoiler Alert or HtPGhS, but they might care about spoilers for the other three stories included in that book.

[Emanick]

I'd say the spoiler should be marked for HtPGhS, rather than GDGU; in general I think spoilers should be marked for the story (or book, for main comic spoilers) they spoil, since we now have stories that are available in multiple distinct ways. After all, consider someone who backed the kickstarter but didn't immediately purchase GDGU: they likely don't care about spoilers for Spoiler Alert or HtPGhS, but they might care about spoilers for the other three stories included in that book.

I'd mark it for both, just to be safe. It's conceivable that someone might be interested in (or later become interested in) buying GDGU without necessarily knowing or remembering the names of all the stories in it. Even the flagship story.

[137beth]

I'd be in favor of all the proposed additions, as well as removing the quote about HtPGhS probably getting a book release (since it is now redundant).

I'd mark it for both, just to be safe. It's conceivable that someone might be interested in (or later become interested in) buying GDGU without necessarily knowing or remembering the names of all the stories in it. Even the flagship story.

Not a bad idea.

[Jasdoif]

Well, I've decided to stop putting off redoing the backend processing. So if anyone wants to make a (semi-)serious push for table subtitles, table/spoiler reorganization, a shift to formatting structures other than tables/spoilers, or miscellaneous musa-laneous visual changes; now's probably the best time for it. Or trying to convince me to rename HPoH something other than "HPoH", I suppose....

Speaking of....

Spoiler: Test Page One Output

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The Index of the Giant's Comments V
Version tentative

with thanks to Xapi, B.Dandelion, ChristianSt, & theangelJean
and to Jesse Baruffi and David Lawrence of Geekademia
and special thanks to Rich Burlew and ThePhantasm

Wow, you guys find the weirdest things to argue about.

How to Contribute: Suggest new quotes to be included! Read the guidelines first. Then, when suggesting a new quote, also mention the number of the current comic if possible, as well as a brief summary of what it says. The more helpful information you give, the easier the Index can be updated.

The Index provides easy access to direct statements about the Order of the Stick comic from its author, for the purpose of forum discussion. It is intended as a research aid; its entertainment value as a trivia collection is incidental.

Spoiler: Index Guidelines (PLEASE READ - Updated 07/22/2016)

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These rules were decided by forum vote. They specify what sorts of comments are suitable for inclusion in the Index and what sorts are not. This thread is run by its caretaker in accordance with forumgoer consensus.

Rule A: The quote or comment must still be accessible online.

1) | This includes the use of The Internet Wayback Machine and other methods of accessing comments that may not still exist in the archive.

2) | This does not include second-hand sources, like "I remember Rich said this, but the thread does not exist anymore." Even if you are 100% certain Rich said that, if the quote is not demonstrable or provable it cannot be included.

3) | This does not include Rich's commentary in books or in any medium that cannot be legally accessed for free.

Rule B: The Index is for collecting only quotes that have to do with the Order of the Stick comic or other fiction works by Rich Burlew.

1) | This excludes non-comic-related opinions, statements, etc. from Rich. So if he says "I like Italian food" or something like that, it is not to be included.

2) | This may include information related to the comic, like Rich's views on Dungeons and Dragons, book publishing, art design, etc. . . so long as these quotes are still within the sphere of comic-related discussion. Uncertainty should be decided by thread poster consensus.

3) | This excludes GiTP forum rules, updates, or general information. That is for the admins and mods to publicize and spread word about, not this index.

Rule C: The index is a forum tool, meant primarily to provide easy access to direct statements from the author for the purpose of forum discussion. Thus, while the index may be fun to read through on a whim, this is not its primary purpose or focus - it is a research aid more than it is a trivia collection. It is for discussions more than it is for leisurely reading. (rescinded as rule on 12/16/2014)

Rule D: If two quotes seem to contradict each other, only the quote that illustrates Rich's most recent and current opinion or position will be included. The index is not meant to be a complete collection for leisurely reading. It is meant to be an accurate research aid for forum discussions. (reference to rescinded rule removed on 12/16/2014)

Rule E: Quotes that contain redundant information need not be included. This reduces clutter. The quote should only be included if it provides new information or clarity, or if it expounds upon information included in a prior comment. This reduces clutter. The quote should only be included if it provides new information or clarity, or if it expounds upon information included in a prior comment.

Rule F: The index-keeper (Jasdoif) has the job of updating the index in keeping with thread-goer consensus.

1) | He/She may reorganize the index if deemed necessary, though all reorganizations can be reversed by majority vote.

2) | He/She may immediately add a comment to the index without any vote, discussion, or consensus required if the comment obviously is in accordance with these agreed rules.

3) | He/She may never fully "reject" a comment's inclusion, however, he/she may postpone its inclusion until further discussion (and, if the divide in opinion appears even, a vote) decides the matter.

4) | If a comment's inclusion is uncertain, a vote requires a clear majority. If there is a tie the comment will not be included. The majority must have at least 2 more votes than the minority. Remember, the purpose of the discussions and votes are to reach some measure of consensus, not division.

Rule G: Transcripts of Q&As with Rich Burlew may be included, in their entirety, in additional posts to the Index. Rule A applies as normal, but all other Rules may be varied contingent on community acceptance. Quotes can be added to the Index proper from the Q&As. This is not considered redundancy for the purposes of Rule E.

Rule H: To reduce how many posts in the thread are consumed by votes instead of discussion, normal changes to the Index are done in groups of quotes.

1) | General Update Procedure

• Each update cycle happens when there are six quotes queued for addition/removal, or when it has been two months since the last update cycle.
• For a quote to be queued for an update requires community support. Additions have more leniency on being queued than removals; and additions with strong community support are exempt from potential votes during the update, while removals are always voted on.
• When an impending update is announced by the curator, and prior to the update being done, people can PM the curator requesting a vote on the quote(s) to added (unless the earlier discussion strongly favored addition, as mentioned above). Two separate posters must request a vote on a quote for it to occur, otherwise the quote will be included. This step is done to ensure active opposition to including the quote is still present.
• If a vote is necessary for any additions, the curator will call for voting on those additions. Discussion, beyond reiterating personal reasons for voting alongside the vote, is discouraged while the vote is going on. Addition must "win" a majority by at least 2 votes for to the quote to be added.
• If any quotes are queued for removal, the curator will call for voting on those removals, separately from any voting for additions. Removal must "win" a majority by at least 2 votes for to the quote to be removed.

2) | Special Update Cases

• If the curator finds a quote to be clearly aligned with the agreed-upon thread rules, the quote may be immediately added to the update queue. When the update cycle happens, the quote is still held to usual procedure with regards to possible votes on additions.
• If the curator finds an already-present quote to be unequivocally violating the agreed-upon thread rules, most likely if the cited quote ceases being available online, the quote may be removed immediately without regard to the update cycle.

Spoiler: Old Inclusion Text (Rescinded 07/22/2016)

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The inclusion procedure below was proposed and adopted in a more informal fashion than the rules above, but still represents how this community project is expected to be run with regards to including new quotes.

Participating doesn't require an understanding of this procedure: we discuss the merits of quotes after they're proposed in the usual forum fashion, and the curator will call for nominations or votes at the appropriate time.

But for those interested in the details:

• Quotes with a clear consensus to include or exclude after discussion will be included in or excluded from the next update, as appropriate.
• Quotes the curator deems clearly aligned with the inclusion guidelines will default to be included in the next update without needing extended discussion, but may be voted upon at the time of the update (see below).
• Quotes without a clear consensus to include/exclude after discussion will default to be included in the next update, but may be voted upon at the time of the update (see below).
• Updates will happen when there are six quotes ready to be included or if it has been two months since the last update.
• When an impending update is announced by the curator, and prior to the update being done, people can PM the curator requesting a vote on the particular "default" inclusion quote(s) (the quotes with strong consensus to include do not need to be voted on). Two separate posters must request a vote on a quote for it to occur, otherwise the quote will be included.
• If a vote is necessary, the curator will call for voting on all quotes set to be voted upon. Discussion, beyond reiterating personal reasons for voting alongside the vote, is discouraged while the vote is going on. Per thread rules, to be included a quote must "win" a majority by at least 2 votes.
• Only votes called for by the curator are binding.

Spoiler: Table of Contents

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• PAGE
  
  • Recent Additions
  • Alignment
    
    • General Information
    • D&D Alignment
    • Specific Characters
      
      • Evil Characters
      • Good Characters
      • Neutral Characters
  • Art
    
    • General
    • Drawing
    • Art & Magic
    • Art & Merchandise
  • D&D Rules and Explanations
    
    • Accuracy
    • Characters: Items and Stats
      
      • Order of the Stick
      • Other Characters/Creatures
    • Combat Scenes
• PAGE
  
  • Story, Plot, and Characters
    
    • General Information
    • Character Development and Backstory
      
      • The Order of the Stick
      • Vector Legion
      • Other Characters
    • Vampirism
    • The Gates and their History
    • Familicide
    • Calendars, Dates, Maps
    • Culture, Religion and the Afterlife
    • Reading Too Much Into It
  • Writing
    
    • Storytelling Mistakes?
    • Plot Holes
    • Writing Process
    • Tools and Logistics
    • Forum and Reader Reactions
    • References and Influences
    • Story Development
    • Reflections from the Author
    • Real World Intent
    • Character Naming
    • The Story as a D&D Spoof
• PAGE
  
  • Supporting the Strip
    
  • Spoilers from Book/PDF Content
    
    • Start of Darkness
      
    • Snips, Snails and Dragon Tails
      
    • Kickstarter Bonus PDFs
      
  • Thread History
    

Recent Additions
🍌On Hinjo and Miko Spoiler: How the Paladin Got His Scar Show "Cousin" is an informal term of address, they aren't legally related.	#1122	2018-05-21
🍌Why the Giant Doesn't Use Print-On-Demand "You would be paying more for worse books...."	#1119	2018-05-03
🍌There is no OotS "Series Bible"	#1117	2018-04-17
🍌This Isn't Actually a Post by The Giant But I want to test the ripeness indicators across the first page....	#1070	2017-04-10
🍌Other eBooks The Giant has "every intention of releasing all the regular books in the series as PDFs", and possibly Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales eventually.	#1066	2017-02-21

Spoiler: Alignment

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General Information
The Morality of Deception "Taking advantage of someone is neither Good nor Evil, inherently. What matters is what you take advantage of them for."	#981	2015-04-28
"Lovable" Does Not Mean "Not Evil" Case in point, Thog.	#936	2014-01-11
Genocide is Always Evil See also here.	#935	2013-12-24
Alignment and Authorial Intent What does Rich mean when he says X character is Y alignment?	#903	2013-07-23
Elan and Nale's Parentage How did it affect their alignment? Giant can't fully answer because of events yet to be revealed. Elan spared Nale's life because of Elan's understanding of what it means to be good.	#815	2011-11-18
Alignment and Environment Enor and Gannji were not operating wholly outside the ethical framework of the Empire of Blood. This doesn't change the nature of their acts but does mean that the acts are not as indicative of their overall alignment as some might suppose.	#812	2011-10-25

D&D Alignment
Usefulness of the alignment system in D&D games A great aid for teaching new inexperienced players how to roleplay.	#921	2013-09-29
D&D's Alignment System Thoughts on how it could be improved.	#838	2012-02-18
On Being Lawful Being Lawful in D&D and the OOTS. More here and here.	#281	2006-02-15

Specific Characters
Evil Characters
Everyone on Tarquin's Team is Evil And Tarquin is kind of like the Elan of their team. See also: here.	#934	2013-12-08
Redcloak is Evil	#830	2012-01-23
Tarquin is Lawful Evil	#763	2010-12-07
Belkar is Chaotic Evil	#251	2005-12-01
Nale, Sabine, and Thog are all Evil	#142	2005-01-20
Good Characters
Haley is Chaotic Good	#936	2014-01-12
Elan is (Still) Chaotic Good Elan let Tarquin fall because he was using a different interpretation of Chaotic Good.	#936	2014-01-11
Shojo's Chaotic Government Shojo's Chaotic government was still good, not evil.	#891	2013-06-06
Durkon is Lawful Good	#798	2011-07-27
Neutral Characters
Girard is Chaotic Neutral	#980	2015-04-25
Who Else is Neutral A long list of Neutral characters in the comic. See also here.	#903	2013-07-22
Enor & Gannji are True Neutral	#812	2011-10-24
V is True Neutral (and Always Was) "Vaarsuvius was never Neutral Good"; strip #11 does not suggest otherwise.	#801	2011-08-17

Spoiler: Art

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General
🍌This Isn't Actually a Post by The Giant But I want to test the ripeness indicators across the first page....	#1070	2017-04-10
"How the Paladin Got His Scar" Will Be in the New Art Style As will everything going forward, unless it's meant to be inserted in the middle of older art. Also, the story will be in grayscale instead of bluescale; because the color-less art's reliance on dark separating lines didn't work out with a single blue color.	#1042	2016-07-03
Why Some Wounds are Black "I often use a mixture of black marks and red ones in order to break up the visuals from being a mass of red lines."	#1005	2015-09-15
The Web and Print Versions of Strips are Designed Concurrently Also, the thought processes behind #443, #750 and #887; and some favorite strips.	#980	2015-04-27
What Bothers the Giant about Early Strips' Art Tangents, wriggly lines, exterior shots...but not the stick figure style, and full redraws are unlikely.	#980	2015-04-24
Art Colors can Change Whether because the Giant doesn't like the old color, or because his system doesn't.	#942	2014-01-28
On Changing Font Style The failure of the Giant's old computer means the style couldn't stay the same.	#936	2014-01-04
Light and Art The art style doesn't show lighting and shading, much like how it doesn't show noses.	#871	2013-02-26
Speech Bubbles Don't overthink them... they are subservient to the story. Malack's bubbles are only black when he "vamps out."	#870	2013-02-18
True Subjective View In 843 V gets cornered.	#843	2012-03-07
Why the Strip Titles Aren't Above the Strip The titles are "bonus" jokes. Rich prefers not to put them above the strip itself.	#759	2010-11-20
Character Appearances & Forum Speculation Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. For example, just because two persons have similar hairstyles doesn't mean they are related.	#683	2009-10-06
Why Book Corrections Don't Get to the Online Strip Undoing the differences between online and book versions of strips would be inefficient.	#665	2009-06-25

Drawing
Redcloak Getting Footwear In the new art style, doing three toes with the skin tone "looked weak and unthreatening....So starting now, armored goblin-types get nice heavy boots instead."	#1013	2015-11-24
On Growing Art Complexity "It's what I needed to keep going after 11 years of the same story by way of challenging myself, while still trying to stay within the initial parameters of the comic's signature look."	#980	2015-04-20
The Larger Online Page Size Aids Readability and Showcases New Art Also, the font is larger because the online comic page is larger.	#949	2014-04-17
The Scenery is Harder to Draw Than the Characters Also, the new hands don't take longer to draw.	#949	2014-04-17
How the Giant Writes and Draws the Strips And an answer to the question - why are certain strips several pages long?	#896	2013-06-28
Examples of Rich's Non-Stick-Figure Art Talent Rich's mad art skills on showcase. Also more here.	#848	2012-04-11

Art & Magic
Meld Into Stone Art trumps rules accuracy here in order to show the warping of the spell effect.	#859	2012-07-26
Counterspelling The Giant doesn't use different art to differentiate between counterspelling with Dispel Magic and counterspelling with the same spell.	#830	2012-01-23
Spell Colors The colors come from the spellcaster's choice or personality, and not their alignment or the types of magic.	#731	2010-06-28
Invisibility Why the art for invisible characters isn't consistent (utility trumps consistency).	#706	2010-03-15

Art & Merchandise
Characters and Merchandise The presence, absence, position, or style of any character on any piece of merchandise has no bearing on any future (or past) plot points.	#816	2011-11-22
Black and White Books They are unlikely to ever be colorized, and were not originally in color. Rich drew them in black and white.	#781	2011-03-16
The Oracle's Location on the OOTS Poster Don't read too much into it.	#744	2010-09-05

Spoiler: D&D Rules and Explanations

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Accuracy
Armies and High level characters in D&D "The idea that you can walk into any tavern and 2-5 adventurers of high level will be there is literally a joke."	#919	2013-09-18
Evolution of D&D Adherence The Giant hasn't made explicit statements about feats/items since 2008, OOTS' internal consistency is still maintained, and the Giant has no regrets about using D&D in OOTS.	#886	2013-05-09
Game Balance Doesn't Matter in This Story "I was communicating the way I expected the audience would perceive it, then I began the process of abolishing that perception."	#806	2011-09-20
Only SRD (Core) Spells are Common Knowledge "...and everything else is 'obscure/non-existent' unless someone has researched it."	#806	2011-09-19
Rules Accuracy In The Comic "If you are looking for moment-to-moment rules accuracy from this comic, you probably should stop reading." For instance, Rich avoids the D&D term "calling" for the sake of non-D&D OOTS readers, who probably would not understand its meaning.	#801	2011-08-17

Characters: Items and Stats
Order of the Stick
Blackwing's Explosion in #1020 is a Scroll Activation Mishap Furthermore, the writing on the scroll reads "STRIP #970 P5 ESTABLISHES THAT MAGIC ITEMS EXPLODE WHEN ACTIVATED IMPROPERLY".	#1020	2016-01-22
Vaarsuvius, Spiked Tentacles and Conjuration Vaarsuvius has never been able to cast Conjuration spells, including Evan's Spiked Tentacles. Just assume Vaarsuvius was casting Shadow Conjuration instead.	#980	2015-04-23
Why V Doesn't Have a Staff There is no narrative purpose for it, and it would just be one more item to keep track of in the art.	#878	2013-03-03
Durkon's Mass Death Ward Rich did not even know Mass Death Ward existed when he wrote the strip. He pegged it at 7th level instead of 8th.	#806	2011-09-19
Elan's Rapiers He has two. His original, and one from Julio Scoundrel.	#723	2010-05-13
OOTS' Stats Rich hasn't written them down, and everything is up in the air until they need a specific ability.	#714	2010-04-10
A Piece of Straw Haley used a piece of straw to get out of the jail cell. Info on Haley's Dexterity, Level, etc.	#262	2006-01-03
The Giant on Stats in Earlier Strips Elan singing about skill points, Haley having Rapid Shot and Manyshot, Roy and Vaarsuvius' mental ability scores, verbal components in OOTS, and insight about Vaarsuvius' spellcasting.	#180	2005-05-14
Elan and Nale are Twins So Nale has the same Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution as Elan.	#65	2004-05-03
Other Characters/Creatures
Babies shouldn't be statted The inclusion of combat stats for newborns encourages combat with newborns, which shouldn't happen. See also Rich's proposed alternative "stats", here and here.	#922	2013-10-04
Malack's Grapple Skills Malack's grapple skills were a hunting aid, not for optimization/combat. A character's skills have to be looked at in the context of their whole life, not "what I would do in a game."	#906	2013-07-30
Girard's Illusion Runes They are a ninth-level spell, not an epic spell.	#893	2013-06-11
The Keoghtum's Ointment The Keoghtum's Ointment removes deafness because it is extra strength.	#863	2012-09-12
Tarquin Doesn't Have Trap Sense "I don't usually bother making fun of mechanics anymore, but if I do, I'm not that subtle about it."	#858	2012-07-23
Malack's Undead Malack reanimates the dead Draketooths into mummies.	#856	2012-06-20
The Crimson Mantle Spoiler: Start of Darkness Show Generally it is not known by non-goblins that the mantle is the source of power.	#826	2012-01-12
Tsukiko Breaks The Rules Tsukiko has too many schools. Rich doesn't make character decisions based on common player trends.	#800	2011-08-14
Acid-Born Shark Rich created it, and made fun of himself in the comic.	#785	2011-04-06

Combat Scenes
Aarindarius Effortlessly Defeating the ABD? Hyperbole in the illustration, though Vaarsuvius thought it plausible for Aarindarius to assist.	#980	2015-04-25
Xykon vs Dorukan There would be no dramatic function to drawing out the fight. "If it helps, think of that page as a montage scene rather than a direct moment-to-moment narrative."	#960	2014-08-18
Realistic Injuries? Unbelievable things will happen in a crazy fantasy story.	#930	2013-11-13
Disintegrate is useful	#918	2013-09-12
Malack and Mass Death Ward Why did Malack bother checking if Durkon protected himself when he could simply dispel the spell and not care at all?	#876	2013-03-02
Battle Scenes and D&D Tactics "My job is to entertain, not to showcase perfect D&D tactics. If you can't be entertained by anything BUT perfect D&D tactics, that's on you."	#873	2013-02-28
Roy's Arena Fight With Thog Roy's strategy to taunt a dungeon-crashing Thog into breaking the pillars.	#808	2011-10-06
Zz'dtri's Break Enchantment Rich didn't read the casting time while making the strip.	#804	2011-09-07
Miko's Fight How Miko defeated the OOTS off-panel and captured them.	#251	2005-11-30

...Obviously I still need to finish up with the post titles in the table of contents, and the formatting on the dates; and it isn't going to be apparent to anyone else that I'll no longer have to manually assign sections to posts to adhere to post character limits, manually update the table of contents when that happens, manually separate the final output into those multiple posts before I can update the Index, or remember to change the version number each time I update the Index....But darn it, this'll save me a lot of surprise hassles I'm still open to considering reorganization/reformatting, if anyone's got ideas in that regard....

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Anyway, it looks like I miscounted before and the quote about the lack of a "Series Bible" is split evenly, and thus in potentially-votable range:

• Include: Algeh, Peelee, Jaxzan Proditor, 137ben
• Don't Include: martianmister, Gwynfrid, D. One, Jasdoif

So before I get much further, does anyone want to weigh in on this one?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

So before I get much further, does anyone want to weigh in on this one?

I find it a bit too redundant to include.

GW

[martianmister]

Anyway, it looks like I miscounted before and the quote about the lack of a "Series Bible" is split evenly, and thus in potentially-votable range:

• Include: Algeh, Peelee, Jaxzan Proditor, 137ben
• Don't Include: martianmister, Gwynfrid, D. One, Jasdoif

But I voted for to include it.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

But I voted for to include it.

...

Your statement was "So important to not include." I suspect (now) that you meant it as "Too important not to include", but it reads as "it is really important to not include it".

GW

[D.One]

...

Your statement was "So important to not include." I suspect (now) that you meant it as "Too important not to include", but it reads as "it is really important to not include it".

GW

"And in a surprising turn of events, the goal for "Team No" was in fact a goal for "Team Yes". Dun, Dun DUN!!!!!"

[Ron Miel]

Let's include it. Why not.

[SaintRidley]

Include it.

[Zherog]

We still voting? If so, include, please.

[martianmister]

...

Your statement was "So important to not include." I suspect (now) that you meant it as "Too important not to include", but it reads as "it is really important to not include it".

GW

So, that's how you write it in proper english...

"And in a surprising turn of events, the goal for "Team No" was in fact a goal for "Team Yes". Dun, Dun DUN!!!!!"

Truly a surprising turn of events.

[Jasdoif]

Okay, so that bumps it up to 8 for, 4 against; which is the threshold for including it without a vote. So....

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UPDATE COMING, CALLING FOR VOTES

Proposed Items for Index 5.6
On Hinjo and Miko Spoiler: How the Paladin Got His Scar Show "Cousin" is an informal term of address, they aren't legally related.	#1122	2018-05-21	No vote required, will be included.
Why the Giant Doesn't Use Print-On-Demand "You would be paying more for worse books...."	#1119	2018-05-03	No vote required, will be included.
There is no OotS "Series Bible"	#1117	2018-04-17	No vote required, will be included.
Other eBooks The Giant has "every intention of releasing all the regular books in the series as PDFs", and possibly Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales eventually.	#1066	2017-02-21	No vote required, will be included.

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So all four of those will be added....BUT!

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Proposed Removals for Index 5.6
"How the Paladin Got His Scar" Will Probably Get a Full Book Release of Some Sort And is almost as long as "On the Origins of PCs".	#1041	2016-06-29	Removals are always voted on.

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Normally this would be in two stages, one for additions and one for removals; but since the addition stage is noninteractive at this point....

Item up for voting:

• The removal of "How the Paladin Got His Scar" Will Probably Get a Full Book Release of Some Sort; on the basis of it being obviated by the announcement of that full book release.

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• Please bold your keep/remove votes, it'll make it easier for me to notice when I go through and count everything.
• If you feel inclined to vote with "yes" or "no", please describe your position so I can tell the difference between "yes, keep it" or "yes, remove it".
• Per Rule H1, removal by vote requires a quote to have two more votes in favor of removal than votes against removal.

Voting will be open until June 22nd, 8PM EDT.

[Kish]

Remove the statement that the up-for-preorder book will probably exist at some point.

[Emanick]

Man, this is a tough one! Remove, I guess, but I am open to being convinced otherwise.

[DataNinja]

Remove the quote. I don't see the point of it anymore now that the future book release it was announcing has arrived.

[factotum]

Why does this even need to be asked? Of course we should remove a quote which is no longer relevant and has been overtaken by events!

[Ron Miel]

Vote for removal.

[martianmister]

Remove it, like your life depends on it.

[Gwynfrid]

Remove. This shouldn't warrant a vote, to be honest. The quote is now subject to the redundancy rule in a very obvious way.

[Zherog]

Remove .

[D.One]

Remove. There's little use in keeping it anymore.

[Keltest]

Remove. Why do we even need to vote on this?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

As much as I enjoy including quotes, this one has definitely become unnecessary. Remove.

[Ron Miel]

Why do we even need to vote on this?

I think in principle every removal should be voted on, even a no-brainer like this one.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I think in principle every removal should be voted on, even a no-brainer like this one.

I think Rule H2 would allow Jasdoif to remove the quote without our input, personally, but I think it's also perfectly fine to put it up to a vote as they've chosen.

[Jasdoif]

I think in principle every removal should be voted on, even a no-brainer like this one.

Exactly. I'm fairly sure when we voted in a rule to require a vote for removals, it came the expectation that a removal would require a vote.

I think Rule H2 would allow Jasdoif to remove the quote without our input, personally, but I think it's also perfectly fine to put it up to a vote as they've chosen.

Rule H2 would allow such if the quote unequivocally violated Index rules...but which rule(s) are you thinking it violates? If we were adding the announcement for Good Deeds Gone Unpunished into the Index, the redundancy might make for a good case, but we aren't...and that announcement doesn't have the note about eventual eBooks and Snips, Snails and Dragon Tales that the Blood Runs in the Family announcement does, so trying to incapacitate those two birds with one merciful stone isn't an option.

[nabcif]

I think in principle every removal should be voted on, even a no-brainer like this one.

I agree. (Remove.)

If nothing else, it gives me the chance to say "I participated! ".

[SaintRidley]

Book being officially announced meaning that the previous quote about the possibility that a book will happen in the future is unnecessary is literally the only case I'm in favor of removal. So for this one Remove.