Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed

[Quild]

Spoiler

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Well. Can't say that actually tells us a whole lot other than Stanley knows what's going on sort of. Not much else to this update really. Sorta hoping we'd see some of the Vampire's side of things.

Contrarily, I think this page tells a lot.

- Bonnie reached Spacerock. Arkenpliers are safe, Ace now has a gun he can work with (we already know that though).
- Stanley's position on all this.
- Wanda, Shawn, Artemis, 3 archons and 3 stabbers are captured my MK forces. Not incapacited anymore.
- 8 guns and 2 heavy-things are seized by MK forces.
- Some 5 or 7 archons are croaked, not decrypted, presumably going to depop before anyone can decrypt them.
- At least 12 free casters, including Marie, managed to get croaked, which causes some mourning. Aerith is still alive!
- Great Minds are coming. Will they do some action?!
- Jack isn't incapacited anymore. Presumably Maggie has been healed too.
- Charlie doesn't seem to have another ace in the hole.

If it's not the end of the book, it looks close enough.

[Razade]

Contrarily, I think this page tells a lot.

Well we'll see about that!

Bonnie reached Spacerock. Arkenpliers are safe, Ace now has a gun he can work with (we already know that though).

We knew this. We know Archons can go through Portals. We know she went though the Spacerock Portal. There's no reason for us to have thought she wouldn't have made it to the other side safely.

Stanley's position on all this.

Said this. This is the only thing we couldn't have infered or already knew from other chapters which was my point really.

Wanda, Shawn, Artemis, 3 archons and 3 stabbers are captured my MK forces. Not incapacited anymore. 8 guns and 2 heavy-things are seized by MK forces.

Not particularly important, the Thinkamancers already knew about this existence and we also knew from previous chapters that the Archon's that were killed dropped their weapons. We know no other Gobwin Knob forces got away so we knew the weapons would remain this.

Some 5 or 7 archons are croaked, not decrypted, presumably going to depop before anyone can decrypt them.

We knew this already. And we know they're not going to be Decrypted because we know the Pliers got to Spacerock

At least 12 free casters, including Marie, managed to get croaked, which causes some mourning. Aerith is still alive!

We could easily have infered this, the number doesn't seem important. We know Free Casters were killed during this little battle

Great Minds are coming. Will they do some action?!

Already knew this from previous chapters. They already acted, of course they're going to come
-

Jack isn't incapacited anymore. Presumably Maggie has been healed too.

Not that important, it was bound to happen. We don't know how many turns have passed since they were captured either so even if he wasn't it wouldn't be a surprise. This isn't really new information all the same.

Charlie doesn't seem to have another ace in the hole.

Charlie has another ace in the whole. He always has another ace in the hole. Contingencies on top of Continuances.

If it's not the end of the book, it looks close enough.

According to the Erfworld thread we're actually a ways off from the end of the book.

[-D-]

We knew this.

This seems to be theme of this update.

The only thing new this update tell us is that Tool isn't pissed and that Charlie lost 30mil. Rest could have been inferred.

Charlie has another ace in the whole. He always has another ace in the hole. Contingencies on top of Continuances.

Probably, but it seems to be a far away hole :P

According to the Erfworld thread we're actually a ways off from the end of the book.

Really? I thought this was Aftermancy. How far are we from THE END?

[DigoDragon]

Already knew this from previous chapters. They already acted, of course they're going to come

But what Now I wonder? MK has prisoners, and camps are forming for and against sides. Can the Great Minds get everyone to agree, or does MK fracture into factions?

I do like that Stanley is being chill about the situation. A calm mind will hopefully help him think of some ideas to help get his units back from MK (I want Parson to get himself out of his sitch).

[Killer Angel]

- Jack isn't incapacited anymore. Presumably Maggie has been healed too.

I'd say yes, otherwise she wouldn't be counted amongst the prisoners.

[eschmenk]

Charlie doesn't look like Charlie Brown anymore, but he's bloodied. I guess that's just signomancy, too?

Bonnie survived going through the portal at high speed and without being incapacitated. That was nice for her and GK will have a chance to learn whatever intelligence she knows. Hopefully Stanley won't do something to kill her off before Parson gets a chance to learn what she knows. That would be a major worry for Charlie, though, so he'll be gunning for her.

I thought this page was a nice summary of the current state of things.

[Quild]

We knew this. We know Archons can go through Portals. We know she went though the Spacerock Portal. There's no reason for us to have thought she wouldn't have made it to the other side safely.

Actually... I understood that they can't. Two last lines.
It seems to confirm however that any unit can go OUT of MK through a portal.

Not particularly important, the Thinkamancers already knew about this existence and we also knew from previous chapters that the Archon's that were killed dropped their weapons. We know no other Gobwin Knob forces got away so we knew the weapons would remain this.

We didn't knew numbers at all. 11 archons went through Charlie's portal. One is in Spacerock, two are captured (Lilith does not count), at least six are croaked... There could be up to two archons left. Decrypted or not.

We knew this already. And we know they're not going to be Decrypted because we know the Pliers got to Spacerock

Like there's a zero chance that Arkentools can't go through a portal why carried by someunit else than the attuned unit. High suspicion is not knowing.

We could easily have infered this, the number doesn't seem important. We know Free Casters were killed during this little battle

Important or not, we do learn something. And I do find it interesting.
I can imagine an option were Shawn could be released of his Loyalty to Wanda and examinated by Thinkamancers in order to determine if he's still himself enough. GK's unit could be liberated in exchange of the decryption of the croaked free casters.
There's enough Free casters croaked and mourning casters to make that an option.

Already knew this from previous chapters. They already acted, of course they're going to come.

Very arguable.

Not that important, it was bound to happen. We don't know how many turns have passed since they were captured either so even if he wasn't it wouldn't be a surprise. This isn't really new information all the same.

Right. No one was worried that some incapacited units couldn't be healed in time. Especially when Parson could only took some units with him, not all.

Charlie has another ace in the whole. He always has another ace in the hole. Contingencies on top of Continuances.

It seems the turn is over for him, and it was a bad one.

According to the Erfworld thread we're actually a ways off from the end of the book.

Oh.

[DigoDragon]

Oh.

I wonder what will top the MK fight as the final battle in this book. Gotta be something good.
Well, I'm hope so anyway.

[Quild]

I wonder what will top the MK fight as the final battle in this book. Gotta be something good.
Well, I'm hope so anyway.

Me too.
Plus, these panels are quite unusual in Erfworld and reminded me of the end of book 1 and book 2 of OOTS.

[Leewei]

The wall hanging in panel 1 -- is that Misty?

[-D-]

The wall hanging in panel 1 -- is that Misty?

You are correct.

[hajo]

A lot of items have changed owner, or are lying around.

So, I'm wondering who can use what:
* Rifles, pistols - self-explaining, so perhaps everyone.
* Ammo - how much is left ?
* Tripods - there were hints that only special trained archons can use them
* Arkenplier - maybe Sizemore or Ace will attune ?
* Eyebooks - do they have passwords ?
* Parson's notebook - what does TV see in it ?
* Parson's calculator - usable / useful for whom ?
* Ivan Poe's wrench, helmet, googles - ...

[Aquillion]

I do like that Stanley is being chill about the situation. A calm mind will hopefully help him think of some ideas to help get his units back from MK (I want Parson to get himself out of his sitch).

Part of the reason is because a lot of the stuff GK has lost is abstract (reputation in the MK, say), which he doesn't know or care about; the only concrete losses are a few troops in the MK and a few captured casters and warlords, which he can hope to recover. Whereas the gain of a huge amount of money is concrete and easy for him to understand. He was flipping his lid earlier about money, and we've seen him flip his lid about losing dwagons; those are things he understands. Magic-stuff and reputation in the MK he doesn't care as much about.

Now, yes, one of those lost casters is Wanda, and he presumably realizes, intellectually, that getting Wanda and the Arkenpliers back together is important to his side, but emotionally it's something he's ambivalent about. In fact, I suspect he is not entirely sad to have an excuse to appoint a new Chief Caster -- especially not Sizemore, who is someone who is completely nonthreatening to him.

(And he's not entirely wrong to be ambivalent about the Arkenpliers; being so dependent on a single point of failure is pretty bad, putting aside the fact that Wanda's loyalties might be dubious given her Fatalism. He made the right choice in recruiting a bunch of non-Decrypted troops earlier, just in case.)

[eschmenk]

I do like that Stanley is being chill about the situation. A calm mind will hopefully help him think of some ideas to help get his units back from MK (I want Parson to get himself out of his sitch).

If "trying to be mellow" means "getting stoned," it might not help Stanley come up with ideas. Then again, just having Stanley avoid making bad decisions might be a big help.

I noticed that Stanley didn't specifically say that Parson, Jack and Maggie were in Transylvito when they were captured. He should have been able to sense that much, even if he can't sense where they were moved after they were captured. (I can't remember how that works.) Maybe he just didn't think that information was important enough to mention? Ideally, it would be because he remembers that his communications aren't secure, but that may be giving him too much credit. I don't know whether to give Stanley credit for an intelligent choice or not. In any case, Charlie couldn't learn about Parson's location from what Stanley said.

[keybounce]

Lets not forget: early in this book, Parson ordered Stanley to be cool.

(Eyebook) LordHamster: Just stay cool.

(Eyebook) LordHamster: That's an order, bossman.

(Eyebook) OverLord1: Im always cool!!!

http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%203/29

(spotted by Anomynous 167)

[DigoDragon]

Now, yes, one of those lost casters is Wanda, and he presumably realizes, intellectually, that getting Wanda and the Arkenpliers back together is important to his side, but emotionally it's something he's ambivalent about. In fact, I suspect he is not entirely sad to have an excuse to appoint a new Chief Caster -- especially not Sizemore, who is someone who is completely nonthreatening to him.

Hmm, Stanley did ask Sizemore to figure out what is going on, so perhaps Stanley doesn't know where everyone is. Or at the very least where they are at.

If "trying to be mellow" means "getting stoned," it might not help Stanley come up with ideas. Then again, just having Stanley avoid making bad decisions might be a big help.

Either way is a Win for GK strategy!

[Ubiq]

Charlie has another ace in the whole. He always has another ace in the hole. Contingencies on top of Continuances.

This last turn was a pretty catastrophic one for him.

He lost a bunch of Archons with two of them being highly connected, critical ones and the rest probably being some of his better fighters.
He revealed a bunch of his trump cards: his ability to invade the Magic Kingdom with his Archons, his weapons, and his mole within the Kingdom.
His primary targets not only survived and are beyond his reach but the loss actually made his primary enemy richer and a lot more knowledgeable about him.

[hajo]

Stanley did ask Sizemore to figure out what is going on

So, he will talk to the Archon - how much does she know about him from Charlie's files ?

After that, I can see a surprise if Sizemore peeks thru the portal,
and I have no idea what will happen when trying to contact the eyebooks.

[The Glyphstone]

Charlie doesn't look like Charlie Brown anymore, but he's bloodied. I guess that's just signomancy, too?
.

I don't think he is bloodied, unless you are being metaphorical. The red emergency lights just make what I'm pretty sure are tears look bloody. He's crying (presumably because he lost 30 million shmuckers), and the Archon is trying to dab the tears away with the cloth in her hand.

[Yuki Akuma]

I don't think he is bloodied, unless you are being metaphorical. The red emergency lights just make what I'm pretty sure are tears look bloody. He's crying (presumably because he lost 30 million shmuckers), and the Archon is trying to dab the tears away with the cloth in her hand.

I don't think he's crying because he just lost thirty million. I'm fairly sure he's crying because he is terrified of dying and it's becoming pretty obvious that he really can't escape his Fate this time.

[eschmenk]

I don't think he is bloodied, unless you are being metaphorical.

Yeah, I think I was reading too much into the hole in the side of his face. Now I think that's where a wire normally plugs in, though. I didn't see the tears on his face, either.

I think he cares much more about missing Parson and the intelligence loses than the 30 million, though. Also, don't forget that he can't dose himself with painkillers while absorbing information anymore so he's probably in a lot of pain, too.

Lets not forget: early in this book, Parson ordered Stanley to be cool.

Yes, that meant, "Don't attack Jillian." How is that relevant now?

Hmm, Stanley did ask Sizemore to figure out what is going on, so perhaps Stanley doesn't know where everyone is. Or at the very least where they are at.

Wanda became ruler momentarily when her first side what destroyed. As ruler, she knew the locations of everyone on her side and their status. I can't remember the details of what happens when someone is captured, though.

[DataNinja]

Yes, that meant, "Don't attack Jillian." How is that relevant now?

He didn't let the order lapse. So, obviously, the Tool has to be cool, because he's still under orders to be.

[Aquillion]

I don't think he's crying because he just lost thirty million. I'm fairly sure he's crying because he is terrified of dying and it's becoming pretty obvious that he really can't escape his Fate this time.

The ironic thing is that he wasn't even on GK's radar until he inserted himself into things to try and kill Parson. If he hadn't been so obsessed with stopping the prophecy of his death, it wouldn't be coming true.

You'd think that he of all people would realize that danger.

(Although I guess they might have attacked him for the Arkendish? But they didn't show any hint of that. Which always struck me as a bit odd, really, given their goals.)

[eschmenk]

The ironic thing is that he wasn't even on GK's radar until he inserted himself into things to try and kill Parson. If he hadn't been so obsessed with stopping the prophecy of his death, it wouldn't be coming true.

"...it wouldn't be coming true, yet." Charlie apparently decided that he needed to stop GK before it became too powerful because eventually Parson would come for him. Fate said so, as far as we can tell.

We can see that things worked out badly for Charlie as a result of what Charlie did. We can't see how badly things would have worked out if Charlie had tried a different plan. We almost certainly know what would have happened if Charlie did nothing, though; Parson would eventually kill him. Charlie, being a Carnymancer, would certainly do something to try to cheat fate. If Charlie knows that doing nothing means that he's going to be croaked, then he has little to loose by trying something.

[Landis963]

he has little to loose by trying something.

His game's already pretty tight. (Emphasis mine)

[Mad Humanist]

He didn't let the order lapse. So, obviously, the Tool has to be cool, because he's still under orders to be.

You would think Parson ceasing to be chief warlord would make it lapse.

[DataNinja]

You would think Parson ceasing to be chief warlord would make it lapse.

Probably. But I think it's funnier this way. Your mileage on that may vary.

[The Glyphstone]

I like to imagine it's actual Character development from Stanley. Between Parson and Jed, he's gradually learning that he doesn't need to hyper-micro-manage everything.

[Aquillion]

"...it wouldn't be coming true, yet." Charlie apparently decided that he needed to stop GK before it became too powerful because eventually Parson would come for him. Fate said so, as far as we can tell.

We can see that things worked out badly for Charlie as a result of what Charlie did. We can't see how badly things would have worked out if Charlie had tried a different plan. We almost certainly know what would have happened if Charlie did nothing, though; Parson would eventually kill him. Charlie, being a Carnymancer, would certainly do something to try to cheat fate. If Charlie knows that doing nothing means that he's going to be croaked, then he has little to loose by trying something.

Sure, but he could have done it better by trying harder to be on Parson's side. Heck, that's a much better strategy right there:

Do everything you can to side with GK. Don't pull anything on Parson, ever. Stay on his good side. Be upfront and tell him straight-up that Fate is going to try and make him kill you. When it does start to happen, point it out to him.

He'll still have to cheat Fate at some point, sure, but that way, when he does, Parson will be on his side. He tried much later on, via Jojo, to convince Parson that Fate was their enemy, but only after trying to kill Parson and people he cared about.

I would think that Charlie and Parson vs. Fate would have a much higher success rate than Charlie vs. Parson and Fate. I mean, hell, here's a strategy I would have gone with:

Side with Parson during the battle for Gobwin Knob, but do it in a way that leaves Parson room to be heroic while you provide support. Then, once the battle is over, give him the scroll and tell him "congratulations, you won! I've rigged up a way for you to go home so you don't need to sit around mopping up or slaving under Stanley forever now that your job is done." At that point in the story -- with no other enemies to deal with and with his immediate goal achieved -- Parson would likely have accepted; Fate wouldn't have had much room to prevent him.

I like to imagine it's actual Character development from Stanley. Between Parson and Jed, he's gradually learning that he doesn't need to hyper-micro-manage everything.

Like I said above, I think it's partially that he's secretly glad to have an excuse to appoint someone other than Wanda as chief caster, even if only temporarily. It's been pretty clear that he feels intimidated by her now.

[Douglas]

Side with Parson during the battle for Gobwin Knob, but do it in a way that leaves Parson room to be heroic while you provide support. Then, once the battle is over, give him the scroll and tell him "congratulations, you won! I've rigged up a way for you to go home so you don't need to sit around mopping up or slaving under Stanley forever now that your job is done." At that point in the story -- with no other enemies to deal with and with his immediate goal achieved -- Parson would likely have accepted; Fate wouldn't have had much room to prevent him.

Sure, that could have worked, but it's a level of plotting that brings in the question of how much influence Fate has. Remember Wanda's discussion in book 0 about how she could negate Fate's plans for her by suiciding? How far does the principle of the answer - "you could, but you won't" - go?

Charlie could have executed such a plot, but that's not Charlie's style. Even if he were to come up with such an idea, would Fate be able to affect his decision making to prevent him from following through?