Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. V: You Joined the Cavalry.

[Pex]

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I was surprised and glad about the Radcliffe revelation. It means this is not yet another robot apocalypse that Mac has been ranting about. It's so cliche I was more interested in the other plot. That it was Radcliffe all along and not AI goes bad is rather a relief.

[Dorath]

There are three arcs this season, so the LMD story will be wrapped up soon.

[Prime32]

Spoiler: Mace

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To be fair, this "twist" with respect to Mace being a super soldier, as opposed to Inhuman, wasn't entirely unexpected.

Jeffrey Mace, aka The Patrion, aka the third Captain America, was a non-powered individual in the comics who donned the Cap's famous mantle for great justice. It should come as no surprise, then, that he's a non-powered individual in the show, albeit one with a more temporary version of the Cap's powers.

So, yeah. Those of us who were surprised by him being an "Inhuman" are, well... A bit less surprised by the twist.

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Not only that. This "faking Captain America powers through drugs" storyline comes from the other Patriot, Elijah Bradley. He eventually received powers for real, so if Mace is lucky he might get to use the Centipede formula or something.

[Rogar Demonblud]

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Not only that. This "faking Captain America powers through drugs" storyline comes from the other Patriot, Elijah Bradley. He eventually received powers for real, so if Mace is lucky he might get to use the Centipede formula or something.

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Does that mean we get to draw lots for who gets to shoot him with an ICER? Or should we raffle that off, with proceeds going to the Survivors Fund?

[Red Fel]

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Not only that. This "faking Captain America powers through drugs" storyline comes from the other Patriot, Elijah Bradley. He eventually received powers for real, so if Mace is lucky he might get to use the Centipede formula or something.

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Given that he used Cal's formula, the more likely outcome is that he'll just rage out.

Seriously, between robot apocalypse and using a mad scientist's research, I'm going to win on my "Bad Decision Bingo" card in no time.

[Douglas]

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Given that he used Cal's formula, the more likely outcome is that he'll just rage out.

Seriously, between robot apocalypse and using a mad scientist's research, I'm going to win on my "Bad Decision Bingo" card in no time.

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Both the Centipede formula and Cal's formula had the nasty side effects fixed by the time of their last (so far) appearance. As long as he gets the final version, he should be fine.

Also, weren't Dr. Erskine and Howard Stark mad scientists too? They created the original Captain America with their research. Using a mad scientist's research is risky, but far from universally bad. Most of the bad results that come to mind were caused by someone intentionally ignoring known risks of the research; properly addressing the risks can be quite successful.

[Bowerbird]

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Am I seriously the only one thinking that Fitz is doing the smart thing in trying to figure out what exactly went wrong with Aida? Leaving out the meta knowledge that he'll likely learn about Radcliffe's deceit, making sure it can't happen again is a good plan. Actually for that matter, why the heck is Radcliffe obsessed with getting the actual Darkhold when he basically had his own digital copy in Aida's hard-drive without the brain damage?

[BWR]

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Am I seriously the only one thinking that Fitz is doing the smart thing in trying to figure out what exactly went wrong with Aida? Leaving out the meta knowledge that he'll likely learn about Radcliffe's deceit, making sure it can't happen again is a good plan. Actually for that matter, why the heck is Radcliffe obsessed with getting the actual Darkhold when he basically had his own digital copy in Aida's hard-drive without the brain damage?

There are not plot holes. Ommmmmmmmmmm.

Alternatively, the book may be magical enough that it doesn't read the same way twice, so Aida only has a copy of what she read that one time, not everything else in it.

[lord_khaine]

Am I seriously the only one thinking that Fitz is doing the smart thing in trying to figure out what exactly went wrong with Aida? Leaving out the meta knowledge that he'll likely learn about Radcliffe's deceit, making sure it can't happen again is a good plan. Actually for that matter, why the heck is Radcliffe obsessed with getting the actual Darkhold when he basically had his own digital copy in Aida's hard-drive without the brain damage?

No, i often think Fitz is the only sane guy in a sea of fools. See comment regarding Mac being a dumbass.

Also, the book is magical enough that its content changes depending on who are reading it.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

There are not plot holes. Ommmmmmmmmmm.

Alternatively, the book may be magical enough that it doesn't read the same way twice, so Aida only has a copy of what she read that one time, not everything else in it.

Agreed. As described, the Darkhold sounds a lot like the mirror of Erised - it shows you what YOU, individually, can do to obtain absolute power. That is different for each individual, and thus Aida's static copy of the book is insufficient for Radcliffe to use.

GW

[Millstone85]

There are some interesting questions with the Darkhold plotline(s).

Both Morrow and Radcliffe seem to have fit the mad scientist bill before they even put their eyes on the thing. It is entirely possible there is no other corruption factor than the plain old temptation of using this much knowledge to your own ends or for what you alone understand is right.

If Heada is really the LMD that read the book, then her limited static copy of its contents seems to be safe for use at least. And repeated scans could hold more data.

[LaZodiac]

I figured it was pretty obvious that since the book is magic and only reveals the text to the person touching it, any attempts to say, take a photo or record said information, wouldn't work. Like congrats Aida you just downloaded a books size worth of blank pages to your memory.

[Millstone85]

I figured it was pretty obvious that since the book is magic and only reveals the text to the person touching it, any attempts to say, take a photo or record said information, wouldn't work. Like congrats Aida you just downloaded a books size worth of blank pages to your memory.

Well, that's clearly not what happened. Aida got pages of code (in binary, which is silly, but whatever) apparently describing how to build a transdimensional portal, a virtual human brain and who knows what else.

It goes with the MCU philosophy of magic having no aversion to technology and perhaps even liking it.

Magic and technology
Voodoo dolls and chants
Electricity. We're making
Weird science!

[lord_khaine]

Yeah, it certainly taught Aida some really useful things, giving her abilities on line with a sorcerer like Doctor Strange.
Abilities she had not lost after building the first portal to safe Coulson and Fizz.

And yeah, it now seems like reading the book might not have corrupted Aida after all.

Though we can also see that Radcliffe just wanted the book, and that the actual dead of random-shield-agent were an accident.

[LaZodiac]

Well, that's clearly not what happened. Aida got pages of code (in binary, which is silly, but whatever) apparently describing how to build a transdimensional portal, a virtual human brain and who knows what else.

It goes with the MCU philosophy of magic having no aversion to technology and perhaps even liking it.

Magic and technology
Voodoo dolls and chants
Electricity. We're making
Weird science!

This doesn't really challenge what I said? She remembers the information the Darkhold gave to her because it's a magic book that made the information part of her very being, effectively. It's in binary because as a robot that's "her native tongue" and while it's silly, it also makes a deal of sense. But if you where to cut open her brain and take out her memories, I'm pretty sure you'd just find a lot of blank PDF files where she stores the information the Darkhold put into her. Same with taking a photo of the pages, the pages would be blank.

[Kato]

I think it's best not to make too many assumptions about the book... Since it is magic it could be anything.. It could tell you whatever you want to know or whatever it wants you to know. Or it could just be a book that is convenient to be read in any language.
Checking the book's original history it seems to be linked to lots of bad things, like vampires. So... The MCU might turn undead?

[Millstone85]

It's in binary because as a robot that's "her native tongue" and while it's silly, it also makes a deal of sense.

It makes sense for it to be in computer code, but each character of text would be eight 0s and 1s. It is just a waste of space on the page. It should at least be hexadecimal.

She remembers the information the Darkhold gave to her because it's a magic book that made the information part of her very being, effectively.

But if you where to cut open her brain and take out her memories, I'm pretty sure you'd just find a lot of blank PDF files where she stores the information the Darkhold put into her. Same with taking a photo of the pages, the pages would be blank.

I did not get that from your first post. But even assuming it would work that way, Aida would be something a photo wouldn't: an interface to transcribe that occult knowledge into something accessible. What happens if you give her a pen and blank sheets? Or if you try to retro-engineer her work? Even if it is just a tiny fraction of the book contents, it is probably world-changing already.

[LaZodiac]

I did not get that from your first post. But even assuming it would work that way, Aida would be something a photo wouldn't: an interface to transcribe that occult knowledge into something accessible. What happens if you give her a pen and blank sheets? Or if you try to retro-engineer her work? Even if it is just a tiny fraction of the book contents, it is probably world-changing already.

Sorry, was posting while sick. Still am technically! I'd assume her trying to explain it to someone would be like trying to explain quantum mechanics to your cat. They'd hear your words, maybe even understand the words you're saying, they might be able to read the things she writes...but they might not be able to comprehend it.

[Dilvish]

The book may also want to be found and used. Part of that would be planting the desire to possess the book into Radcliffe. Flesh and blood mortals may make better servants/thralls/whatever for the Darkhold, or whatever the Darkhold serves.

[lord_khaine]

Sorry, was posting while sick. Still am technically! I'd assume her trying to explain it to someone would be like trying to explain quantum mechanics to your cat. They'd hear your words, maybe even understand the words you're saying, they might be able to read the things she writes...but they might not be able to comprehend it.

I think the main reason for why that might apply, is that Aida is not human. it might very well be that the concepts she/it were given, cant be translated in a way thats understandable for a biological brain. Or at least not easily.

Kinda sympathise a little with Radcliffe for that matter. Not even certain the book would need to do anything to lure him in. I can imagine his situation is a little like a Doctor stumbling over the cure to Aids. Unfortunately it then requires the sacrifice of a cute adorable kitten, so the animals right activists he works for decides to burn all the research.

[Lizard Lord]

I am annoyed that Radecliffe is having a hard time controlling Aida as it seems to bringing up the whole "A.I. is a crap shoot" trope that I dislike. Like how can he be that bad of a programmer? How could he not think to add either a "Don't kill under any circumstances" or at the very least a "don't kill without authority command clearance" directive into her programming?

[Millstone85]

Like how can he be that bad of a programmer?

Frankly, I am baffled by his and Fitz's design.

When they started explaining the LMD project, I thought it was going to be a series of remote-controlled avatars. Put your VR headset on, with a neural interface and everything, and get a live feed of a body just like yours. Do everything you could normally do but without actually being on the field. In that context, "Aida" would be a program meant to test the body's reflexes, default posture and other dynamic aspects of the deception.

Instead, we are going replicants. Autonomous duplicates of agents. Something that would require a full-blown AI.

[dancrilis]

I am annoyed that Radecliffe is having a hard time controlling Aida as it seems to bringing up the whole "A.I. is a crap shoot" trope that I dislike. Like how can he be that bad of a programmer? How could he not think to add either a "Don't kill under any circumstances" or at the very least a "don't kill without authority command clearance" directive into her programming?

In fairness programming a humanesque mind and that including hard coded limitations may be problematic, and having one pass as human without a humanesque mind may be even more difficult.

But imagine for a second it is possible to include this limitation, imagine the following scenario.

Someone is driving a truck towards innocent civilians, the android doesn't have time to stop the truck but can shoot the driver in the head which will likely (they can do the probabality for this) cause the truck to swerve and save the civilians - should the android be able to make such a snap second decision?
Saying 'yes' or 'no' is perfectly acceptable as there is a case for either.

[Red Fel]

Frankly, I am baffled by his and Fitz's design.

When they started explaining the LMD project, I thought it was going to be a series of remote-controlled avatars. Put your VR headset on, with a neural interface and everything, and get a live feed of a body just like yours. Do everything you could normally do but without actually being on the field. In that context, "Aida" would be a program meant to test the body's reflexes, default posture and other dynamic aspects of the deception.

The point of that part is Radcliffe's whole motivation - immortality. He wants to create a means for humans to transcend their humanity. You knew this when the character was first introduced as part of an "extreme transhumanist" movement. Creating the AI-piloted LMDs to protect real agents was simply a cover - he knew that if he started with "I want to put my brain inside of a robot," he would be shut down immediately, so he started with "I want to create robots to protect us." Meanwhile, under the guise of researching their AI, and researching brain-scanning tech, he was also researching how to scan the brain into a form of AI that would allow you to transfer a human mind into a robot body. Hence why he needs the Book.

He practically admitted as much. His goal is immortality. As a robotocist, he has basically one route to that.

[Millstone85]

he knew that if he started with "I want to put my brain inside of a robot," he would be shut down immediately, so he started with "I want to create robots to protect us."

Okay then I am just baffled that Fitz wouldn't notice how needlessly advanced Aida is.

Though I guess that one can be blamed on... sigh... Fitz falling in love with Aida.

[LaZodiac]

Okay then I am just baffled that Fitz wouldn't notice how needlessly advanced Aida is.

Though I guess that one can be blamed on... sigh... Fitz falling in love with Aida.

That's not even remotely going to happen.

My theory is that Aida is actually advanced enough to become a truly sentient AI, which is the issue. But it'll reverse the trope that she's actually completely benign, she's just trying to help her Dad out as best she can, since that's her personality.

[Red Fel]

My theory is that Aida is actually advanced enough to become a truly sentient AI, which is the issue. But it'll reverse the trope that she's actually completely benign, she's just trying to help her Dad out as best she can, since that's her personality.

Spoiler: My Theory

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Aida is a truly sentient AI. She actually is individually intelligent enough now, thanks to the Book, although perhaps not quite as rogue as Heada. Radcliffe, on the other hand, isn't quite as sentient - he doesn't realize he's an LMD. (See my "Radcliffe is an LMD" theory above.) Aida is using him as a bluff - if everyone assumes she's being used by Radcliffe, she won't be blamed. Also, she probably follows his instructions (1) to keep him from realizing, and (2) because there's a certain comfort in the old roles, even if she has already grown beyond them.

It's not that she's a rogue AI or a benevolent AI. She's simply self-interested. At least, that's my guess.

[Millstone85]

Well, my current guess is that the show is going Datalore on us.
There will be a good Aida and an evil Aida.
The good Aida will be the one who Fitz is trying to rescue, Heada.
The evil Aida will be the one who tried to justify killing Nathanson.

[Lizard Lord]

In fairness programming a humanesque mind and that including hard coded limitations may be problematic, and having one pass as human without a humanesque mind may be even more difficult.

But imagine for a second it is possible to include this limitation, imagine the following scenario.

Someone is driving a truck towards innocent civilians, the android doesn't have time to stop the truck but can shoot the driver in the head which will likely (they can do the probabality for this) cause the truck to swerve and save the civilians - should the android be able to make such a snap second decision?
Saying 'yes' or 'no' is perfectly acceptable as there is a case for either.

A human should absolutely be allowed to make a snap decision like that. But for an A.I. should only be allowed to make that decision if part of the point in making it was to give it free will (which must mean no hard coded unbreakable rules to regulate behavior and it would be recommended that you figure out how to replicate human emotions before you do this (since most humans will only kill if they absolutely have to rather than if it just seems the most logical thing to do; granted emotional duress can also cause a human to kill, but that too is a minority problem and building robots in this way it should, at the very least, prevent them from banning together against humanity) but I digress) was part of the point. To build it otherwise would be extremly dangerous. It is ONLY at this point that I myself would say "haven't you seen any movies" as they do give theoreticals about how and why this could go wrong if allowed. To make good A.I. you have to make sure you know what you are doing which is what makes it frustrating that we see it go wrong in the same ways over and over again. But I digress yet again.

From both what Radcliffe has said both in private and in front of others it does not seem like Aida was designed with free will; which must mean that either she really did gain some form of sentience from the Darkhold or Radcliffe, for some reason, programmed her to prioritize what he wants over his physical safety given that he already told her not to kill for him anymore.

[Spacewolf]

I'm guessing Radcliffe programmed her so that protecting him would be the most important directive without realising that this combined with her role as a combat ready android would make killing agents the obvious choice for her if the other option was a potential danger to him. Afterall you can't expect her to think normally.