Magic the Gathering XXII: Where Puns Go to Die

[Carl]

Gah, good point on the wording, But this is the kind of thing i need help with, Duels isn't the best at teaching this kind of thing ;).

[Carl]

Odd rules question as it's not somthing thats ever come up in duels and i'd have trouble engeneering it. If a creature has trample and is told to "fight" a creature or group thereof can damage still spillover to the player, or would i need to specify that it does?

[Ebon_Drake]

Odd rules question as it's not somthing thats ever come up in duels and i'd have trouble engeneering it. If a creature has trample and is told to "fight" a creature or group thereof can damage still spillover to the player, or would i need to specify that it does?

Trample only applies to combat damage, i.e. damage dealt by a creature when attacking or blocking. Damage dealt by fighting (in the strict rules sense) doesn't count, so it wouldn't normally spill over if a fighting creature has trample. Trying to word a card to do that would be pretty awkward.

702.19. Trample
702.19a Trample is a static ability that modifies the rules for assigning an attacking creature’s
combat damage. The ability has no effect when a creature with trample is blocking or is dealing
noncombat damage. (See rule 510, “Combat Damage Step.”)

...

701.11. Fight
701.11a A spell or ability may instruct a creature to fight another creature or it may instruct two
creatures to fight each other. Each of those creatures deals damage equal to its power to the
other creature.
701.11b If a creature instructed to fight is no longer on the battlefield or is no longer a creature, no
damage is dealt. If a creature is an illegal target for a resolving spell or ability that instructs it to
fight, no damage is dealt.
701.11c If a creature fights itself, it deals damage equal to its power to itself twice.
701.11d The damage dealt when a creature fights isn’t combat damage.

Edit: in fact, "spilling over" isn't actually an accurate description of what trample does in the post-6th Edition rules. Technically, what you actually do is assign enough damage to destroy each blocking creature, and can then assign any remaining damage points to the defending player. This is why it has somewhat weird and counter-intuitive interactions with Deathtouch or against Protection. Like regeneration, it's one of those odd abilities that doesn't actually work in the way most people think it does.

[Carl]

Cheers Ebon drake. Fairly easy to work around. "Treat all Damage Dealt as Combat Damage, Treat X as attacking creature" where X is a creature name, (Concept is a really brutal card, (i'm thinking CMC8), that via unity trigger forces your opponent to select a number of creatures he controls, (unity sets how many), then the unity packing creature and them fight). Should handle it easy.

[Androgeus]

Cheers Ebon drake. Fairly easy to work around. "Treat all Damage Dealt as Combat Damage, Treat X as attacking creature" where X is a creature name

The only thing I think you have achieved here is letting creatures with combat damage triggers go off from the fight. Trample is embedded in the damage assignment process. This only happens in the combat damage step.

Something else to note is that a fight can only be between two creatures*, you can't have a bunch of creatures fight another bunch.

*well ok a creature can fight itself as well.

[Carl]

Gah, well i've changed my mind on how i'm going to set that one up anyway. Also the idea was to have the unity creature fight a bunch of opposing creatures, niot multipule on multipule.

Below, what i've pulled together so far, think i'm going to take a break from the blue centrics and move onto the Black's, (which is what the question was for), come back to these later when i've had time to think more, doing a lot of banging heads on walls for lack of idea's atm.

Remember these are just rough concepts, they're not properly worded just basics laid out in a rambling as i thik of them form.

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MTG Custom Elves Set Card Design Concepts

If I use _____ it mean either a specific, (person), or general(, e.g. species/subspecies), name that I haven't come up with. It's basically a stand in ;).

Elvish Leader cards. These will almost certainly end up as mythic rare's, I'm sorting them out here so I've got the idea's written down ;). Nothing more. Also don’t be surprised if the mana cost is perhaps underdone, I'm debating between 2 of each of the three colurs each has, and 3 of each, from CMC6 to CMC 9 with such specific mana requirements is a big jump and I'm unsure where the true balance point sits for either mana combo.

_______ Embodiment of _______ Blue, Blue, Black, Black, Red, Red. Medium (4/4), Indestructible, Hexproof. Anytime you draw a card, draw another one. Your maximum Hand size is increased by 6. Leader of the Segment of Elvish Society aligned with the Husband, typical blue draw/hand shenanigans.

_______ Embodiment of ________ Black, Black, Red, Red, White, White. Medium (4/4), Indestructible, Hexproof. Anytime a permanant you control that is on the battlefield would be destroyed, exiled, or sacrificed gain 1 mana of any colour in the cards casting cost. Anytime you take damage gain 1 mana of any colour. All other cards you own have flash. Leader of the Segment of Elvish Society aligned with the Master. Slightly oddball red black style mana ramp/return hybrid. Instead of pulling cards out of the graveyard, it refunds their mana and then gives you mass flash so you can use what you get. The only limitation is that without a lot of card draw your going to struggle to use the mana due to running out of cards, and non-blue isn't enamoured of that.

_______ Embodiment of ________ Green, Green, Red, Red, White, White. Medium (4/4), Indestructible, Hexproof. When _______ Embodiment of ________ enters the battlefield, and at each players upkeep, if your life total is less than 10, heal yourself for the minimum amount needed to bring your health to 10. If at any time you would take damage that would reduce your life top less than 10 but more than 0, prevent the portion of the damage that would reduce you below 10. Leader of the Segment of Elvish Society aligned with the Mother in her "home" guise. Unstated but I'm going to have to include some kind of rule to make it so only one of her 3 versions can be in play at once, (obviously all the leaders are legendary to begin with). Like all her versions it involves messing with your life, but where her slave form plays on a form of exchange theory and her wifely form plays on card draw/discard mechanics. This form straight up no sells opponents. Bring an alternate win condition, 10 power/direct damage, or go home basically.


_______ Slave Embodiment of ________ Green, Green, Red, Red, Black, Black. Medium (0/4), Indestructible, Hexproof. Cannot attack or Block. Whenever you suffer damage, all opponents take half as much damage, rounded up. When any opponent is healed, you are healed for half as much, rounding up. Leader of the Segment of Elvish Society aligned with the Mother in her "slave" guise. Typical of her with her life play shenanigans she makes opponents either out damage you by a lot, or out heal you by a lot of a combo of both. Of course getting her out before you've suffered at least some harm is tough so she's most useful for securing a commanding position, or for turning a losing condition into equivalency.


_______ Wifely Embodiment of ________ Green, Green, Red, Red, Blue, Blue. Medium (4/4), Indestructible, Hexproof, Defender. Anytime you gain or lose life, draw a card. Any time an opponent gains or loses life, they discard the top card of their library. Anytime you discard a card from your hand you may shuffle it into your library instead of placing it into your graveyard. Leader of the Segment of Elvish Society aligned with the Mother in her "wifely" guise. Typical of her with her life play shenanigans she manipulates decks and draws triggered of life loss/gain. Was tempted to make her effect on opponent be to let you scry 1 on their library instead.



Eleven Militia type cards, (multiple concepts):

Strength in Numbers concept. Card may be cast as a Sorcery instead of a Creature. If done so place a strength in numbers counter on any one creature card you own on the battlefield. See that card for effects of counters. If a creature with a strength on numbers counter on it would be destroyed, sacrifice a counter, and then regenerate the creature.

Defensive Basic Militia Type, (Spearmen Militia?). Blue, White. Defender. Strength in Numbers, gets +1/+3 counter per Strength in numbers counter, middle sized, (1/3?), If this card is placed into a graveyard from anywhere, shuffle it back into it's owners library. Cheap blocker with good scaling. Built in recycle.

Archer Type Militia. Blue, Red, Has Defender, Reach, and First Strike. Smallish, (2/2?). Strength in Numbers, gets a 2/+2 counter per strength in numbers counter. If this card is placed into a graveyard from anywhere, shuffle it back into it's owners library. Possible cut card if over many creatures in this colour combo/otherwise enough cards in overall. Card Code Mark 88, Possibility.

Militia Executioner. Blue, Black. Smallish, (2/2?). Strength in Numbers - Gain +1/+1 counter and destroy target creature opponent controls. If this card is placed into a graveyard from anywhere, shuffle it back into it's owners library.

Militia Cavalrymen. Blue, Green. Trample, Counters give +3/+1. Middling Creature, (3/2?). If this card is placed into a graveyard from anywhere, shuffle it back into it's owners library. Fairly basic offensive card with typical strength in numbers scaling.

Militia Commander Probably a rare quad/quintuple colour, Blue, White, Green, Red (matching colours seen in all militia types, so black too if I include one of those, probably bump the P/T 1 each if I do that or something). Legendary. Strength in numbers effect causes all other creatures with the rule to gain one when he does but no personal effects. Unity gives +1/+1 till end of turn to strength in numbers possessing card. If this card is placed into a graveyard from anywhere, shuffle it back into it's owners library. Probably a moderate, (4/4?) creature but with good keywords, not sure how much would be balanced though. Spot for Uncommon for now.

Non Militia Blue Card Concepts:

Evoker Mage. Blue, Red. Unity - Every time a multicoloured spell is cast, for each colour beyond the first deal 1 damage to target creature. Probably a middling creature, (2/2?). Typical red style blaster, not sue how to incorporate blue style effects, wanted an alternate effect where you can prevent damage too but not sure how to word that as it would be a delayed effect

Mindsurgeon Mage. Not sure on name on this one, some sort of mind messing mage, below is concept. Blue, Black. Unity based card recycle, lets you shuffle cards from your graveyard back into your library, one per colour beyond the first. (1/2 or 1/3?).

Illusionist Mage. Blue, Black, Red Creature. Medium Creature with low power (1/3?, maybe 1/4 to get it out of common spot blasting range). Menace and Unity - Whenever a multicolured spell is cast, for each colour beyond the first In the casting cost, tap a target creature an opponent controls. Typical twidller with some difficulty stopping it's attacks on top, but littlie punch when it does get through. Spot for Uncommon for now.



Artifact Creature concepts, (all blue based)

Ok, I know I said I wasn't going to do many Artifact creatures. But after sitting down and thinking some, it's probably necessary. The problem with the Husband faction as a group really is that outside of their massed mages and militia's I didn't really emphasise them with much useful on a battlefield, for the purposes I created them for in their "home universe", that’s just fine, trying to handle them as an MtG set creates some issues with that idea. On the other hand the ceaseless inventing and, (use your best Van Helsing voice for this),"SCIENCE!!!" of them would create a lot of stuff that could be handled as Artifact creatures and would be perfect for MtG cards.

New Keyword for them, to avoid putting the full text on every card.

Autonomous Repair: If a creature with this keyword is placed into a graveyard from anywhere, exile it, then at start of your upkeep place it onto the battlefield tapped, does not untap at your next untap step. If subject to another efect that would to go somewhere else upon entering the graveyard, (e.g. Persist, or Undying), Exile a creature token that is a copy of the card with this rule instead. Mark this as an 88, going to work this in via an enchantment or Artifact as a unity triggered graveyrard search and return, (with the same enters tapped and doesn't untap at next endstep downside), didn’t like how this as a keyword was taking over. The whole don’t add things you don’t need that detract from the theme part of the nuts and bolts articles.


Elvish Automaton. Blue, Red. Artifact creature. Lightish Creature, (2/2?). Basic 2 mana 2/2 creature with a number of nice side interactions with other cards.

Automaton Ballistae Emplacement. Blue, Red, 2, (possibly blue/red, blue/red instead of 2). High offense low defence Artifact creature (7/2?). Cannot Attack or Block. As instant, Tap Automaton ballistae and deal damage equal to it's power to target attacking or blocking creature. Typical red firebreather, but with a blue style counter trigger condition. Hard hitting as befits it's cost.

Von Neman Automaton. Blue, Black, 2, (possibly Blue/Black, Blue/Black instead of 2 on the end). As prior but gets Undying as well. Mark 99, going to make this a battlefield wide enchantment instead.

Guardian Automaton. Blue, Red, Blue/Red, 1. High defence low offence (3/6?) Artifact creature. Gains Double Strike when it blocks. Solid defensive creature with a powerful counterpunch on blocks.

Eagle Automaton. Blue, Black, 2 (or possibly Blue/Black, Blue/Black). Mediumish creature, (2/3?). Flying. Unity - Any time you cast a multicolour card Scry X on a target opponents deck, where X is the number of colours beyond the first in the cast cards casting cost. Typical Blue/black enemy deck manipulation, but unity based and in a more unusual form. Not sure the mana cost to power is well balanced though.

Elvish Tinkerer. Blue, Black, Minimal Creature (0/2?), Persist, gives Artifact creatures on the battlefield Persist.

Elvish Inventor. Blue, Black, 1, (Maybe red instead of black, not sure where this would fit on the colour pie). Minimal Creature (0/3?), Undying. Unity - Whenever a multicoloured spell is cast, for each colour beyond the first place a +1/+1 counter on target Artifact creature you control and untap it.

Elvish Alchemist. Blue, Red. Minimalist creature (1/1?). Protection from Damage dealing Spells and Abilities. Unity - Whenever a multi-coloured Spell is cast, for each colour beyond the first exile a card from the top of your library. Then deal damage to target creature equal to the CMC of the card with the highest CMC. Place that card into your graveyard and all others exiled in this way on the bottom of your library in any order. Another Red Unity based firebreather, but this time plays with your deck and has explicit protection from your usual easy removes. But no real self offense. A lot more bang for buck though.

Elvish Chemist. Blue, Red, Black, Blue/Red/Black. Minimalist creature (1/1?). Protection from Damage dealing Spells and Abilities. Unity - Whenever a multi-coloured Spell is cast, for each colour beyond the first exile a card at random your graveyard. Then deal damage to target creature equal to the CMC of the card with the highest CMC. Leave that card in Exile and place all others exiled in this way on the bottom of your library in any order. Basically a bigger meaner, more capable big brother to Alchemist, now uses your graveyard and cycles cards out of your graveyard and back onto the bottom of your library in the process, albeit at random. Spot for Uncommon for now.

[LansXero]

Sorry if I missed something, but what is it that you find so bad / wrong about MTG that you feel the need to make up your own cards? Is there a gameplay niche, gaming style or something else that you feel you cant cover with the existing, and quite larg, card pool?

[Carl]

I just enjoy homebrewing. For lulz and stuff.

[digiman619]

Sorry if I missed something, but what is it that you find so bad / wrong about MTG that you feel the need to make up your own cards? Is there a gameplay niche, gaming style or something else that you feel you cant cover with the existing, and quite larg, card pool?

Practically every Magic player I've ever met has come up with ideas for cards. Is that not normal?

[mythmonster2]

Hell, we have two card making contests here, too.

[Carl]

thnx digiman619 & mythmonster2. I didn;t know abut those contest thread though they're a bit outside what i'm doing here anyway from what i can tell. ANy comments on the concepts anyone?

[gooddragon1]

Squirrel Girl 4gg
Legendary Creature - Human Shaman
Whenever Squirrel Girl attacks, create a 1/1 green Squirrel creature token that's tapped and attacking.
Whenever at least 20 squirrels you control attack a player, that player loses the game.
1/1

[tonberrian]

Squirrel Girl 4gg
Legendary Creature - Human Shaman
Whenever Squirrel Girl attacks, create a 1/1 green Squirrel creature token that's tapped and attacking.
Whenever at least 20 squirrels you control attack a player, that player loses the game.
1/1

Needs Hexproof and indestructible.

[gooddragon1]

Needs Hexproof and indestructible.

How about

Plot Armor (If squirrel girl would leave the battlefield, return it to your hand instead. If squirrel girl would leave your hand except by this ability or being cast, shuffle it into your library instead.)

[Somensjev]

Okay, so I've got a question with a bit of a backstory to it

So, I used to have a monogreen budget land destruction deck (for modern), which I ended up taking apart, but I now want to try and make it again, better than before

So, for the moment, I have a single question: using an all forest land base, how would you cast 'liquimetal coating' turn 1, and then 'splinter' turn 2, in modern? (hopefully while still having enough space in the deck for other cards, in case the best case scenario doesn't happen)

[gooddragon1]

Okay, so I've got a question with a bit of a backstory to it

So, I used to have a monogreen budget land destruction deck (for modern), which I ended up taking apart, but I now want to try and make it again, better than before

So, for the moment, I have a single question: using an all forest land base, how would you cast 'liquimetal coating' turn 1, and then 'splinter' turn 2, in modern? (hopefully while still having enough space in the deck for other cards, in case the best case scenario doesn't happen)

Forest, guide, coating
Forest, guide, guide, splinter

[tgva8889]

Depending on how crazy you are getting, you could also try to use cards like Mox Opal, though good luck with getting that to work out. Presuming you don't have to literally hit the nuts, you can play Search for Tomorrow, which lets you then go turn 2 Coating into turn 3 Splinter. You can also play a variety of mana elves, although those are a bit less likely to get you to the perfect 2 - 4 curve you want.

[Vogie]

Flagstones of Trokair is one of the best lands in modern because of its ability to, very occasionally, tap for 2 mana in a turn. Being able to do that, fix colors for everyone, and tap for 2 in the first turn is really good.

You can't tap for 2 with it on the first turn. It can later in the game, as early as turn two. If you have one in play, Tap it for W, then play another, sacrificing the first tapped one (due to the legend rule), and the second comes into play untapped, and you can thus "Tap Flagstones again" for W (although it's technically a different card).

Since the searched card on the graveyard trigger only has to be a Plains (not a basic) and comes into play tapped anyway, you are able to search for any of the shocklands (for color fixing) or Mistveil Plains.

[Passive Pete]

So I've been working on a science fictionish custom set for about the past month and I'm in the meat of individual card design. The set has a sub theme of "counters matter" and I had hopes of including 3-5 creatures with "damage is dealt to ~ in the form of -1/-1 counters" because I thought there was a butt-ton of design space and it would be simple enough to include across rarities, but I'm not sure where it fits color-pie wise. It's appeared on one green creature (Phyrexian Hydra) in the past but I wanted some fresh feedback. Here's my take:

Black is the best fit for a number of reasons, number one being it is the color of big creatures with drawbacks, and this is a straightforward example of this. It also has -1/-1 counter synergy to offer, and flavor-wise the mechanic feels a lot like "rotting." Green is probably my second choice, because this mechanic would appear on green-style big creatures. I can see red making it work in a way similar to black, since it makes creatures reckless and fragile, and maybe the mechanic could even appear in white since white gets everything. I'm mostly certain about blue being a no.

Any opinions or ideas are appreciated, and I'll probably be back with more design questions for my set.

[sonofzeal]

So I've been working on a science fictionish custom set for about the past month and I'm in the meat of individual card design. The set has a sub theme of "counters matter" and I had hopes of including 3-5 creatures with "damage is dealt to ~ in the form of -1/-1 counters" because I thought there was a butt-ton of design space and it would be simple enough to include across rarities, but I'm not sure where it fits color-pie wise. It's appeared on one green creature (Phyrexian Hydra) in the past but I wanted some fresh feedback. Here's my take:

Black is the best fit for a number of reasons, number one being it is the color of big creatures with drawbacks, and this is a straightforward example of this. It also has -1/-1 counter synergy to offer, and flavor-wise the mechanic feels a lot like "rotting." Green is probably my second choice, because this mechanic would appear on green-style big creatures. I can see red making it work in a way similar to black, since it makes creatures reckless and fragile, and maybe the mechanic could even appear in white since white gets everything. I'm mostly certain about blue being a no.

Any opinions or ideas are appreciated, and I'll probably be back with more design questions for my set.

Well, historically, let's look at Wither (exactly what you're describing) and Infect (almost the same, plus alternate win condition).

Wither: 31% Black, 21% Red, 13% Green.

Infect: 30% Black, 26% Green, 8% White, 7% Blue, 7% Red

Infect's a little weird because all phyrexian stuff has a bit of subliminal black behind it, but Wither gives strong justification for Red.

[Dhavaer]

Well, historically, let's look at Wither (exactly what you're describing) and Infect (almost the same, plus alternate win condition).

Wither is the opposite of what he's describing (I got confused too). Wither creatures deal damage as -1/-1 counters, these creatures take damage as -1/-1 counters.

[sonofzeal]

Wither is the opposite of what he's describing (I got confused too). Wither creatures deal damage as -1/-1 counters, these creatures take damage as -1/-1 counters.

Whoops!

Well, argument's still valid, with Wither gives precedence for reverse-Wither being in red as a secondary. Although it feels far more of an artifact effect than anything else (as in Wicker Warcrawler, Clockwork Beast/Beast/Condor/Dragon, etc), what with starting strong and getting weaker through combat.

In a five color set, White might have some effects that cleanse those -1/-1 tokens (perhaps through a Flicker mechanic), and Blue might have some effects that move them around, like onto your enemy's creatures.

[dgnslyr]

Whoops!

Well, argument's still valid, with Wither gives precedence for reverse-Wither being in red as a secondary. Although it feels far more of an artifact effect than anything else (as in Wicker Warcrawler, Clockwork Beast/Beast/Condor/Dragon, etc), what with starting strong and getting weaker through combat.

In a five color set, White might have some effects that cleanse those -1/-1 tokens (perhaps through a Flicker mechanic), and Blue might have some effects that move them around, like onto your enemy's creatures.

Normally, we see this kind of effect as losing +1/+1 counters, on creatures like Undergrowth Champion or Rock Hydra, which sets a solid precedence on Red and Green, aka Hydra colors. I can also see a good argument for Black, since that's the color of death, corruption, and general bad stuff. I do like the idea of seeing it in varying amounts across all five colors, though, with a definite lean towards Jund colors.

[Bucky]

Aether Revolt spoilers are live, and we have some potential Eternal hits. Notably...

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The Expertise cycle slots into Living End, casting drawn Living Ends while also doing other useful work.

Revolt has fetchland synergy, so any cheap Revolt cards need to be evaluated seriously. Fatal Push and Greenwheel Liberator are the standouts so far.

Planar Bridge is a potential Tron toy.

Hungry Flames is yet another Searing Blaze variant for decks that want them.

Trophy Mage is a potential Vintage toolbox piece, especially for Prison style decks. It notably fetches Trinisphere, Crucible of Worlds and Ensnaring Bridge.

Also, the set isn't even half revealed and we already have an infinite combo. This time it even has a monocolor variant!

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Paradox Engine + Aetherwind Basker + Greenbelt Rampager + Druid of the Cowl: Infinite power Aetherwind Basker

[Gauntlet]

Aether Revolt looks pretty good.

Fatal Push is clearly going to see plenty of play in Modern and Legacy, and probably a reasonable amount in Standard.

Most of the Expertise cycle will see Standard at the very least. Rishkar's is probably the one with least relevance, but all the others look legitimately powerful. If any of them break into Modern it'll be Kari Zev's with Living End, but I don't know how reliably that'll work out, I guess it could replace some of the worse Cascade cards as a spell with some actual utility.

Disallow is excellent and may hit Modern too, although 3cmc is a bit of a pain.

Greenwheel Liberator will probably see some play, although it's harder to trigger in Standard and competes with Tarmogoyf elsewhere.

Metallic Rebuke might well be good enough to make an Improvise deck work in Standard, and might make Tezzerator a bit better in Modern.

Both the planeswalkers are pretty underwhelming,

Dark Intimations I want to like - mini Cruel Ultimatum might be good enough and it's significantly easier to cast.

Renegade Rallier might be good enough for Maverick etc in Legacy.

Tezzeret's Touch is a nice effect to have around, and lets people play 8 Ensoul Artifacts in Frontier if it becomes a thing. Also making your Smuggler's Copters a permanent 5/5 flying looter on turn three is pretty scary.

Aether Harvester is a more defensive Copter which is excellent for slower midrange decks.

There's got to be something stupid to do with Consulate Dreadnought.

Heart of Kiran might well be good enough. In particular, it matches up well against Copter and protects your walkers well. Only problem is, if your opponent makes Emrakul, they can use it when you're mindslavered to kill all your planeswalkers.

Paradox Engine is okay but I don't think there are enough mana rocks in standard to go off with it, and 5 mana is a big ask elsewhere.

Hope of Ghirapur might be good enough to do something silly if recurring it is worthwhile, but I suspect it won't be good enough because it gets disrupted by a flying blocker or instant removal.

Metallic Mimic might do something combo-ish with Persist creatures.

Spire of Industry is probably better than Glimmervoid for Affinity, or it's at least close.

[Bucky]

There's got to be something stupid to do with Consulate Dreadnought.

Peacewalker Colossus?

Paradox Engine is okay but I don't think there are enough mana rocks in standard to go off with it, and 5 mana is a big ask elsewhere.

Or you can use it with creatures, e.g. Combo Elves.

Metallic Mimic might do something combo-ish with Persist creatures.

Metallic Mimic/Armorcraft Judge is a potential engine.
Metallic Mimic/Animation Module is hilarious but probably not viable.

[Gauntlet]

Paradox Engine + Cryptolith Rite might be a legitimate deck.

[Somensjev]

Paradox Engine + Cryptolith Rite might be a legitimate deck.

Seems like a simple idea, just run some weenies and ramp into some game winner, not sure what to ramp into though

If you run out of cards in hand, you can just "paradoxical outcome" any non-important permantments, then draw that many cards, and keep going


Also, everyone I know irl is acting like "fatal push" is the best one mana black removal in any format. Am I the only person who wouldn't run it over "tragic slip" if given the choice between them?

[Gauntlet]

Seems like a simple idea, just run some weenies and ramp into some game winner, not sure what to ramp into though

If you run out of cards in hand, you can just "paradoxical outcome" any non-important permantments, then draw that many cards, and keep going


Also, everyone I know irl is acting like "fatal push" is the best one mana black removal in any format. Am I the only person who wouldn't run it over "tragic slip" if given the choice between them?

Having a creature die is a not-negligible hoop to have to jump through. Fatal Push kills a lot of important targets without having to do anything special (Tarmogoyf, Death's Shadow, most of Affinity, Stoneforge, Young Pyromancer, Smuggler's Copter, Deathrite Shaman).

Fatal Push is also easier to enable through other means because all you need to do is use a fetchland to make it active, and then it kills other scary stuff like Thought-Knot Seer, Monastery Mentor and Kalitas.

Tragic Slip is pretty unreliable to get active and very very narrow if it isn't active - especially if you are playing a control heavy deck that doesn't run many creatures itself (and doesn't want to get the ones it does run killed).

[Tvtyrant]

Having a creature die is a not-negligible hoop to have to jump through. Fatal Push kills a lot of important targets without having to do anything special (Tarmogoyf, Death's Shadow, most of Affinity, Stoneforge, Young Pyromancer, Smuggler's Copter, Deathrite Shaman).

Fatal Push is also easier to enable through other means because all you need to do is use a fetchland to make it active, and then it kills other scary stuff like Thought-Knot Seer, Monastery Mentor and Kalitas.

Tragic Slip is pretty unreliable to get active and very very narrow if it isn't active - especially if you are playing a control heavy deck that doesn't run many creatures itself (and doesn't want to get the ones it does run killed).

This. It abuses fetchlands, which are ubiquitous in modern and legacy. Tragic.slip is great if you have self saccing creatures to combine it with, but those tend not to be independently good cards.