Erfworld 63, Page 57

[Fatmop]

Not going to read through the entire thread to see if this has been said before - there look to be many more than eight elf corpses. Maybe I'm miscounting due to the various states of dismemberment, but I got up to at least 14.

[jindra34]

Not going to read through the entire thread to see if this has been said before - there look to be many more than eight elf corpses. Maybe I'm miscounting due to the various states of dismemberment, but I got up to at least 14.

Yes it has been said before... th count was about 20...

[Gez]

We still need an Erf troop type armed with chainsaws though...

The psychopath shock troops belong to the Fweddie faction.

[Bellman]

Not terribly original, just adding myself to the "weak hex in the back has more than 3 dwagons" camp.

I would guess that a duplicate set of at least the Yellow and Pink are in there, plus the Purple and an undisclosed number of others not fully revealed (to the bats), along with a warlord or two to keep them from all attacking at once.

Watching them settle in #54 we see two Yellows and two Pinks, plus... a Brown? Comparing that to Ansom's map, no stack has two pinks, unless that is the center hex reserve we see settling in. The flight of 19 dwagons also seen in #54 may be the actual center group heading past the rear, or ...?

Extra dwagons + warlord to keep them hidden = invitation to attack an allegedly weak hex. Putting a lighter force in the rear to bolster the front is believable enough bait for Ansom to bite, but Parson only did this after he noted Ansom's lack of lookamancers. Something is up, and I think this is it.

[jindra34]

Not terribly original, just adding myself to the "weak hex in the back has more than 3 dwagons" camp.

I would guess that a duplicate set of at least the Yellow and Pink are in there, plus the Purple and an undisclosed number of others not fully revealed (to the bats), along with a warlord or two to keep them from all attacking at once.

Watching them settle in #54 we see two Yellows and two Pinks, plus... a Brown? Comparing that to Ansom's map, no stack has two pinks, unless that is the center hex reserve we see settling in. The flight of 19 dwagons also seen in #54 may be the actual center group heading past the rear, or ...?

Extra dwagons + warlord to keep them hidden = invitation to attack an allegedly weak hex. Putting a lighter force in the rear to bolster the front is believable enough bait for Ansom to bite, but Parson only did this after he noted Ansom's lack of lookamancers. Something is up, and I think this is it.

See comment on this in boopers...

[Bellman]

See comment on this in boopers...

Man... I was going to triumphantly note the Edit on comment #27 in that thread as support for alternatives, but then saw Rob posting what I assume now to agree that this was, indeed, a goof.

Way to steal the thunder form my first post, pal.

[jindra34]

Man... I was going to triumphantly note the Edit on comment #27 in that thread as support for alternatives, but then saw Rob posting what I assume now to agree that this was, indeed, a goof.

Way to steal the thunder form my first post, pal.

i knock theories down a lot... it seems to be in my nature...

[Monan]

Clearly the archers are not hitting their mark in all that cover. The dwagons might even survive the attack if Prince Ansom and Vinny Doombats ride on through to the center of dwagenburg, though the rules are not clear on whether or not you can withdraw from one hex while attacking into another.

Oh, and while we are correcting speling, it's Evel Knievel.

The strip only showed Vinny and Ansom in the forest (so it is clear they advanced with the attackers), not necessarily in the same hex as the dwagons. There is a lot of forest sorrounding the dwagon formation. They might be setting up for another attack run or even conducting more recon (I doubt the latter). But nothing on this strip seems to directly show that Ansom and Vinny slipped through the dwagon stack or even engaged the dwagons in battle.

The dwagons are quite formidable.

BTW i do thing these forums do influence the comic, not necessarily in storyline (it could do that), but more in telling the story. This is a convienient "forum" to see if the thoughts of the authors are being passed on to the readers or if we are reading something else into the strips. They can read this and make adjustments and some telling points more obvious or more subtle depending on the discussions here.

[erewhon]

The dwagons are quite formidable.

Yes indeed they are. :)

Plus, I have had A Thought.


The ONLY delimiter between the A dwagons and B dwagons was movement rate. Their combat stats were utterly discounted.

It is possible, indeed likely, that the "slower" B dwagons are MORE powerful in combat than the A dwagons. It's pretty common in games such as this to balance units against each other in such ways. Namely, the slower units are tougher, the weaker units more agile.

Maybe Parson put those three dwagons in that hex because they are his three strongest units in a fight!

Could be, could be....

[innovan]

>A pike-wall can survive a cavalry charge.

More importantly, horses are not dumb enough to charge into pointy things. There are multiple battlefield accounts from Napoleon's time where lines of charging horses slowed when they saw sharp pointy things ahead, and then came to a full stop within a yard of the tips, refusing to ride on and get piked, despite any and all urgings of the riders.

So it appears the average wood elf is dumber than a horse.

I do hope that the wood elves get to report to their commander that they're being spent as cannon fodder to no purpose, and that faction's owner bolts from under Ansom. When you read Arab battle accounts, which were always barely held together federations of tribes like what Ansom is leading, any tribe feeling it had taken too many causalities disproportionate to what others were taking would start all sorts of schisms, battle field sit downs, and leaving to return home.

Minimum, Ansom should be verbally beaten up in the battlefield tent by the elves' owner about how he's purposely slaughtering elves in no-win scenarios that weren't even in the plan, and how about this is purposely being done to change the parity between their tribes back in the homeland once the war's over. As everyone knows, the best bargains are made before the battle even begins. Wouldn't it be sad if Jetstone had to change over several cities to the elves' owner to keep the elf troops in his battle line as payment, or else the elves go back home --which would really change the homefront parity and leave Jetstone open to being conquered while its main forces are so far away.

And where is Ansom's superior? Ansom's deviating from the plan to go play in the forest. He's taking losses that were never scheduled. Jetstone's real ruler should be on the line yelling at him. We haven't seen his personality yet. Is he apathetic, is he hard driving, is he overly obsessed with bean counting? If the author wants to keep that hidden, he could send some ministry middleman to roast Ansom over the open spit. But definitely Ansom should be hearing from the home office before the day is over asking what the boop is happening out there.

[TiamatRoar]

Ansom is the chief warlord. The fact that Slately hasn't shown up or even been mentioned while Vinnie states that it was Ansom who instigated Jetstone joining into the fight against the Plaid implies that when it comes to war, Ansom has no superior. He's the top dog. (he's also a Prince and therefore likely Slately's son, and thus likely Slately will be more forgiving towards him than towards others)

Of course, if push comes to shove, Slately could boss Ansom around, but all indications are that Slately basically allows Ansom to do whatever he wants to.

[mhoram]

>
And where is Andsome's superior? Andsome's deviating from the plan to go play in the forest. He's taking losses that were never scheduled.

Actually, Ansom clearly indicated that he'd welcome a chance to take on Plaid forces en route to the capital on the assumption that they'd be more vulnerable there than in a siege condition.

[jindra34]

Innovan: Who is this Andsome you speak so negatively about?

[Monan]

Also, in the course of re-reading the archives, Stanley knows that Ansom has an Arkentool, and in an earlier comic, it's shown dusting uncroaked. It would be really convenient to assume that they are Wanda's uncroaked, and that Stanley knows about that property, and passed it along to Lord Hamster. If not, well, let's hope the Lookamancers spot it DARN soon!

I doubt that the great tool discloses any of his knowlege with Parson so easily. usually Parson's ignorance is discovered with a passing comment discussing something that shoud be and is commonly known, and Parson lets us all know that he doesn't know the particular information. Finally, everyone is surprised that he doesn't know that particular piece of info. Anyway, I don't think Parson knows the power of the pliers.

[normalphil]

>A pike-wall can survive a cavalry charge.

More importantly, horses are not dumb enough to charge into pointy things. There are multiple battlefield accounts from Napoleon's time where lines of charging horses slowed when they saw sharp pointy things ahead, and then came to a full stop within a yard of the tips, refusing to ride on and get piked, despite any and all urgings of the riders.

So it appears the average wood elf is dumber than a horse.

You missed the 'medieval' qualifier. The Napoleonic wars were the trial-run of the conscript army, the horses were gotten the same way they got the other cannon-fodder; whatever was lying around at the time. So no, they didn't charge home. In fact, that's why lancers made a comeback during that period- so that after the horse stoped short of the bayonets, the rider could poke something at the infantry repeatively.

But everything you said and I commented on is pointless because medieval destiers; trained exhausively against straw-men with long pointy sticks and generally psychologically abused into being the nastiest things that had mass measured in tonnage did charge home. And quite effectively, too; if the horse wasn't going to stop; a wall of pointy sharp things isn't going to keep you alive. (during the Penninsular War a fluke hit caused a horse not to stop-short of the bayonets by reason of being dead on its feet at the time. A breach formed, the rest of the nags poured in, and the infantry got slaughtered. Imagine that happening on purpose, every single time. There's a reason people thought knights were the bees knees, provided you could afford to field them in the first place.)

I do hope that the woodelves get to report to their commander that they're being spent as cannon fodder to no purpose, and that faction's owner bolts from under Andsome. When you read Arab battle accounts, which were always barely held together federations of tribes like what Andsome is leading, any tribe feeling it had taken too many causalities disproportionate to what others were taking would start all sorts of schisms, battle field sit downs, and leaving to return home.

Minimum, Andsome's should be verbally beaten up in the battlefield tent by the elves' owner about how he's purposely slaughtering elves in no-win scenarios that weren't even in the plan, and how about this is purposely being done to change the parity between their tribes back in the homeland. As everyone knows, the best bargains are made before the battle even begins. Wouldn't it be sad if Jetstone had to change over several cities to the elves' owner to keep the elf troops in his battle line as payment, or else the elves go back home --which would really change the homefront parity and leave Jetstone open to being conquered while its main forces are so far away.

And where is Andsome's superior? Andsome's deviating from the plan to go play in the forest. He's taking losses that were never scheduled. Jetstone's real ruler should be on the line yelling at him. We haven't seen his personality yet. Is he apathetic, is he hard driving, is he overly obsessed with bean counting? If the author wants to keep that hidden, he could send some ministry middleman to roast Andsome over the open spit. But definitely Andsome should be hearing from the home office before the day is over asking what the boop is happening out there.

We're in the western experience here, seemingly, and I tell you this is par for the course. They routinely experienced casualty rates for pitched battles that put (offensive!) wars on hiatus for a generation or so until the next batch of warriors could have their balls drop. To get a descicive result, you take losses. 'Shock action' has been the underlining concept behind the western approach to war since the Greeks, tribal or not. (what the Germanic, Gothic, and Frank tribal confederations were willing to subject themselves to when employed as mercenaries by the Roman Empires is telling).

And what I just said may not even be relevent. The Elven contingent knows the situation as well as the rest of the column; if they don't neutralize those Dwagons right now, it's over. They're deep in enemy territory, without air superiority. A retreat at this point would turn into a protracted slaughter that beggars imagination. They're about to lose their ability to advance. They're the only units that have even a chance to get the job done. It's time to succeed or die trying. They're warriors. They get class, status, respect, 'the good land besides the river', and this is the cultural tradeoff for it; when the situation arises you charge that damned dragon, and you do it with a %$#$ cheer. Either you grasp the concept or you don't.

Besides, this isn't a choice between taking some random dangerous mission or declining. If they don't pull this off, they're dead anyway.

[kunou126]

Everyone's jumping on the Evel Knievel bandwagon, but I think it's an Easy Rider reference. Ansom looks just like Captain America; and Vinny, by his side, has a hat on his head--so did Billy in the movie. Even the position is similar.

Allow me to put an end to the debate then:

Evel Knievel

That's the exact outfit Ansom's wearing.

[jindra34]

Allow me to put an end to the debate then:

Evel Knievel

That's the exact outfit Ansom's wearing.

Debate was already over... sorry you were a bit to slow.

[PyritePyro]

Yes indeed they are. :)

Plus, I have had A Thought.


The ONLY delimiter between the A dwagons and B dwagons was movement rate. Their combat stats were utterly discounted.

It is possible, indeed likely, that the "slower" B dwagons are MORE powerful in combat than the A dwagons. It's pretty common in games such as this to balance units against each other in such ways. Namely, the slower units are tougher, the weaker units more agile.

Maybe Parson put those three dwagons in that hex because they are his three strongest units in a fight!

Could be, could be....

This, and I just thought of another thing. Can Wanda uncroak enemy units to obey her, and also, do they maintain their type after she uncroaks them? If so, Team plaid could have some spiffy new forest units when we're done.

Spoiler

Show

And with forest units, maybe a spread out no bat zone?

[jindra34]

This, and I just thought of another thing. Can Wanda uncroak enemy units to obey her, and also, do they maintain their type after she uncroaks them? If so, Team plaid could have some spiffy new forest units when we're done.

Spoiler

Show

And with forest units, maybe a spread out no bat zone?

Team plaid ain't that evil... or are they?

[PyritePyro]

Team plaid ain't that evil... or are they?

Rhetorical question, right? Since obviously it's so much more evil to use enemy casualties for disposable troops than it is to use your own.

Spoiler

Show

And Parson wouldn't want more ways to strike at Jetstone's flyers?

[OnDroid]

This, and I just thought of another thing. Can Wanda uncroak enemy units to obey her, and also, do they maintain their type after she uncroaks them? If so, Team plaid could have some spiffy new forest units when we're done.

Spoiler

Show

And with forest units, maybe a spread out no bat zone?

And how about uncroaked DWAGONS!

[Divine Hammer]

And how about uncroaked DWAGONS!

I believe the term is "dwacowich".

[PyritePyro]

I believe the term is "dwacowich".

Can a Dwacowich be promoted to Warlord? And are we passing beyond normal speculation, into the absurd.

[jindra34]

Can a Dwacowich be promoted to Warlord? And are we passing beyond normal speculation, into the absurd.

maybe and most definitely.

[Curxzed]

I don't know if its been discussed or not, I tried to read through some of the earlier discussions, specifically the page 12 discussion.

But, anyway, I had a question/thought.

On strip 12 Jillian kills the blue dwagon, then the red smacks her off her ORLY then she is seen being carried off as a captive.

I don't think that is possible though. I don't see any warlords on the dwagons as Jillian approached. Jillian is herself a warlord but for the other team. She can direct combat but the dwagons just had to 'auto-attack' thus killing anything that had entered their hex or getting killed by it. Every other combat shows one side or the other dead at the end unless a warlord was present on the attacking then retreating team.

Is that right? Or did I miss something?

I know this may not be the right thread to put this and I don't mind if it is copied and pasted into another thread

Curxzed 75 Imperator
Tunare
EQ1

[PyritePyro]

I don't know if its been discussed or not, I tried to read through some of the earlier discussions, specifically the page 12 discussion.

But, anyway, I had a question/thought.

On strip 12 Jillian kills the blue dwagon, then the red smacks her off her ORLY then she is seen being carried off as a captive.

I don't think that is possible though. I don't see any warlords on the dwagons as Jillian approached. Jillian is herself a warlord but for the other team. She can direct combat but the dwagons just had to 'auto-attack' thus killing anything that had entered their hex or getting killed by it. Every other combat shows one side or the other dead at the end unless a warlord was present on the attacking then retreating team.

Is that right? Or did I miss something?

I know this may not be the right thread to put this and I don't mind if it is copied and pasted into another thread

Curxzed 75 Imperator
Tunare
EQ1

I don't think anyone has gone over the rules for surrender. It could be that she simply surrendered, and then became a prisoner of Plaid, and then became at least somewhat under his control. Or combat could stop when another unit is incapacitated, rather than destroyed. And thank you for rescuing the thread from the Dwacowich discussion.

[jindra34]

And thank you for rescuing the thread from the Dwacowich discussion.

And what was wrong with the dwacowich discussion?

[kunou126]

On strip 12 Jillian kills the blue dwagon, then the red smacks her off her ORLY then she is seen being carried off as a captive.

I don't think that is possible though. I don't see any warlords on the dwagons as Jillian approached. Jillian is herself a warlord but for the other team. She can direct combat but the dwagons just had to 'auto-attack' thus killing anything that had entered their hex or getting killed by it. Every other combat shows one side or the other dead at the end unless a warlord was present on the attacking then retreating team.

Is that right? Or did I miss something?

I know this may not be the right thread to put this and I don't mind if it is copied and pasted into another thread

Curxzed 75 Imperator
Tunare
EQ1

Theoretically, you're right. Without a warlord, the Dwagons should have killed Jillian. But, I'm not sure about the whole Lookamancy setup. Combat instructions can be sent realtime in the middle of the turn if I recall reading that somewhere so I'm not sure. At the time of Jillian's capture, Stanley was running the turn. I remember it being somewhat embarrassing to him that her hat was left behind as a result of the orders Stanley issued.

But she wasn't knocked off a ORLY, it was a Gwiffon, which looks remarkably like a Marshmellow Peep (maybe a stale one). Parson might mistake it for food or have some unknown battle power that will let him devour Gwiffons.

[teratorn]

On strip 12 Jillian kills the blue dwagon, then the red smacks her off her ORLY then she is seen being carried off as a captive.

I don't think that is possible though. I don't see any warlords on the dwagons as Jillian approached.

Stanley moved them there during his turn and I think with instructions to capture Jillian. That strip shows that they can not avoid a fight but they can choose if the outcome is killing or capturing. I think they can follow simple orders like "go to this position, bring me that" even without a warlord.

[Curxzed]

It was specifically said later that they 'ran into them', I think on Ansoms turn. Jillian was the one moving after all. I hadn't thought about the entire lookamancy/eyemancy thing though, Tool could have put the dwagons their knowing she was headed that way.

Orders can be given in real time, but only to warlords right? regular units (no matter how powerful) don't have that option.