Another ending/death/prophecy theory

[Delta357]

I've had this theory for a while now, I think its relatively solid as far as unfounded guesswork goes (Also I can't link posts yet, thats what I get for lurking)

Basically, all the oracles prophecies were true, but with a negitive twist that normally cost the party members something.

V's gave her/him complete and total arcane power... for a limited time and it cost him/her their soul

Durkon coming home "post-humourously" will be as the undead

Haley didn't look the gift horse in the mouth... and nearly died to Nale

Belkar gets conned into killing the oracle, but activates the trap card and gets cursed

Roy... Well he outsmarted himself really.


This lead me to Elan. Since hes not the smartest, and asked a pretty simple question of "will this story have a Happy Ending?" to which the answer is "Yes- for you at least" Now, this sorta has an obvious tie in that the story won't end well for everyone, obivously Belkar won't enjoy it. But heres where I got to thinking. Why would Elan be happy if anyone died at all? Sure they may not like Belkar, but its been pointed out how much hes helping, and him and Elan are relatively close as it goes (see strip 38 and 153 off the top of my head, and Elan burying Belkar in the dream sequence in 887) SO would Elan really have a happy ending if Belkar were to die as we all expect?

Part of me suspects that the Oracle, unlike the other prophecies, said the twist outright. Elan will have a happy ending, because he will die happily saving the rest of the order from whatever end game disaster the Giant has planned. No one else will be really happy in the ending, with Elan being the loveable goofball he is but as the Giant said in the commentary of War and PC's "...means that Elan's happy ending may not be what the audience wants or expects for him, as long as he, himself, is pleased with it" Elan, saving the world, saving his friends, and its enough of a crazy unexpected thing I almost feel like it will happen. Maybe it won't be permantant, the Snarl eats souls but maybe something else will happen beforehand.

I feel like theres something here, thoughts?

[Jasdoif]

I feel like theres something here, thoughts?

Elan didn't ask if he would have a happy ending. He asked if the story would have a happy ending. Elan dying (happily or otherwise) before the ending of the story seems highly unlikely to constitute a happy ending to the story for him.

[Roland Itiative]

Isn't there a quote by the Giant where he says Elan's prophecy was made as sort of a promise that no matter how dark the story gets, it'll still have an overall happy ending? This prophecy seems to serve a different narrative purpose than all the others, it doesn't need much of a twist.

[Delta357]

Elan didn't ask if he would have a happy ending. He asked if the story would have a happy ending. Elan dying (happily or otherwise) before the ending of the story seems highly unlikely to constitute a happy ending to the story for him.

The exact quote was (Elan) "Will this story have a happy ending?" (Oracle) "Yes- For you at least"

That means the story must have an ending the Elan is happy for, not necessarily an end where anyone else is happy

[Jasdoif]

The exact quote was (Elan) "Will this story have a happy ending?" (Oracle) "Yes- For you at least"

That means the story must have an ending the Elan is happy for, not necessarily an end where anyone else is happy

It means the story will have a happy ending for Elan. Which does not necessarily follow from Elan being happy with the ending of his part of the story. "Heroic self-sacrifice to save everyone I love" might be an ending for Elan's life he'd be happy with (or at least accepting of), but the resultant "Elan-sized void in the Order, the world and Haley's heart" would almost certainly not be a happy ending to the story for Elan.

[Dunsparce]

Isn't there a quote by the Giant where he says Elan's prophecy was made as sort of a promise that no matter how dark the story gets, it'll still have an overall happy ending? This prophecy seems to serve a different narrative purpose than all the others, it doesn't need much of a twist.

Yeah it was in the commentary of War and XPs

[Delta357]

It means the story will have a happy ending for Elan. Which does not necessarily follow from Elan being happy with the ending of his part of the story. "Heroic self-sacrifice to save everyone I love" might be an ending for Elan's life he'd be happy with (or at least accepting of), but the resultant "Elan-sized void in the Order, the world and Haley's heart" would almost certainly not be a happy ending to the story for Elan.

"It may not be what the audience expects or wants or expects of him. Aslong as he, himself, is pleased with it" To quote our Giant. Also to quote a less reputable figure, "The end of what son? The story? there is no end, just a point where the storyteller stops talking" After hes dead, the prophecy would still be true right? Happy ending for him (at least). Also it just feels like there should be a twist, considering how the "for you at least" would have slipped right over Elans head but not anyone else. It feels like something sinister is there.

[Delta357]

Isn't there a quote by the Giant where he says Elan's prophecy was made as sort of a promise that no matter how dark the story gets, it'll still have an overall happy ending? This prophecy seems to serve a different narrative purpose than all the others, it doesn't need much of a twist.

Yes in the commentary. He does immediantly "turn it on its head" by showing a negitive prophecy in a positive light (Durkons death). Also its the furthest thing from anyones mind, but sorta makes alot of sense, hes probably the weakest member of the party whos also had the most character growth I'd argue, it seems like a logical step despite how crazy it sounds.

[Jasdoif]

"It may not be what the audience expects or wants or expects of him. Aslong as he, himself, is pleased with it" To quote our Giant. Also to quote a less reputable figure, "The end of what son? The story? there is no end, just a point where the storyteller stops talking" After hes dead, the prophecy would still be true right? Happy ending for him (at least).

You do realize Elan's not the one telling this story, right? The story doesn't stop if he sacrifices himself....Or if it did, the story would end without any sort of resolution to whatever caused him to sacrifice himself, and ending the story without knowing whether his sacrifice actually accomplished anything would certainly not be a happy ending (I'm certain Elan would agree that the climax isn't where you're supposed to end the story).

Also it just feels like there should be a twist, considering how the "for you at least" would have slipped right over Elans head but not anyone else. It feels like something sinister is there.

All the Oracle's answers that we've seen fulfilled have been literally true for the questions asked. I'm confident whatever twist Elan's prophecy has will not involve ignoring the literal meaning of the question or its answer.

[Peelee]

All the Oracle's answers that we've seen fulfilled have been literally true for the questions asked. I'm confident whatever twist Elan's prophecy has will not involve ignoring the literal meaning of the question or its answer.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

.....or could I?

All the Oracle's answers that we've seen fulfilled have been literally true for the questions asked. I'm confident whatever twist Elan's prophecy has will not involve ignoring the literal meaning of the question or its answer.

Eh, it's a wash.

[Jasdoif]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

.....or could I?

...OK, I know silver dragons have Alternate Form to assume any animal or humanoid form; but how're you managing it with a plant form?

(I think Kish may have us both beat, though)

[Peelee]

...OK, I know silver dragons have Alternate Form to assume any animal or humanoid form; but how're you managing it with a plant form?

(I think Kish may have us both beat, though)

I was gonna try to invoke the noble Mimic, but dude turned out to be an aberration. So.... druid levels? Arcane Hierophant, maybe?

Wonder! Awe!

[dancrilis]

...OK, I know silver dragons have Alternate Form to assume any animal or humanoid form; but how're you managing it with a plant form?

(I think Kish may have us both beat, though)

Fang Dragons (also called Gray Dragons) do however have Sound Imitation.

Sound Imitation (Ex): A fang dragon can mimic any voice or sound it has heard, anytime it likes. Listeners must succeed on a Will save (DC equal to that of the dragon’s frightful presence) to detect the ruse.

May be appropriate if you have mistaken gray for silver ...

[Jasdoif]

I was gonna try to invoke the noble Mimic, but dude turned out to be an aberration. So.... druid levels? Arcane Hierophant, maybe?

Arcane Hierophant? Huh....For some reason I thought you'd be a Xorvintaal dragon instead of a traditional spellcasting dragon.